Finally I'm up to date. And I have to say it's a very good story, especially on the psychological side of the characters.

The only thing I feel lacking was the missed involvement of the Romulans in the war: at the time they were allies of the Federations in a relationship good enough that in Star Trek VI their ambassador was present at the briefing about the raid to free Kirk, after Regulus I'd have expected them to send at least a raiding squadron to sow chaos among the Minbari supply lines (and possibly dismantling the Minbari military space stations one by one: if the plasma torpedo of a fusion-powered ship could produce the devastation it did in its first appearance, antimatter or singularity-powered ships would have had no problem against those targets, and would have destroyed their will to fight much faster).

Lord Maytiya:5/6/12 . chapter 14 You said:

A good story, so far. But I have a nitpick: at this point in the Star Trek timeline, Federation and Romulans are staunch allies, to the point that in The Undiscovered Country the Romulan ambassador Nanclus was present to the briefing to the Federation President about a possible raid to rescue Kirk.

With the Minbari attacking the Federation, you'd expect the Romulans to at least send a token force to help and raid the Minbari infrastructure...

AlbertG response. First thank you for the review!

Just a quick comment. The Romulans were NEVER allies of the Federation during Kirk's time and were just barely in TNG because it suited them and the needed to support the Feds or go down with them.

There were Romulan ambassadors to the Federation, but they were what we call 'window dressing'. They were more or less spies and were there to keep up the appearance and maintain some sort of dialogue with the Feds. They were never trustworthy and the Feds would have never allowed them access to the B-sectors if they could help it - and they could. The Romulans were a threat from Archer's time to DS-9's with Sisko and they were never fully trusted except as allies of convenience.

A good story, so far. But I have a nitpick: at this point in the Star Trek timeline, Federation and Romulans are staunch allies, to the point that in The Undiscovered Country the Romulan ambassador Nanclus was present to the briefing to the Federation President about a possible raid to rescue Kirk.

With the Minbari attacking the Federation, you'd expect the Romulans to at least send a token force to help and raid the Minbari infrastructure...

Yes, pride is definitely a powerful motivator and vice; pressuring an individual or group into action or inaction even when they themselves know their decision to be the wrong one. However, considering the Minbari were split in their initial counsel’s vote and that they were willing to call things off based on the way they let a cheep excuse justify staying their hand I’m less than sure of your claim that if the Human race had surrendered unconditionally and made no attempt to fight back. The kind of mind frame they would have to have to do that would have to be very extreme and doesn’t fit with these two facts (the warrior faction may be a different story). If an enraged heat of the moment decision only gets just over half the votes then it stands to reason that cooler heads seeing them not fighting back would inspire guilt, shame, the questioning of the morality of their actions, or other such things that would shift the counsels views in the Human’s favor. Loosing their leader was a blow to their pride and a personal loss. However, as you said, they just needed an excuse to sooth their pride and ‘humbling the lesser race and putting them in their place’ or some such should have a similar effect. From the sound of it, the Human race wasn’t able to do more than shoot in the general direction of the Minbari ships and die so the results sound the same as if the rolled over and died, but knowing the people your killing aren’t even fighting back should effect the Minbari. Of course, the impersonal nature of the massacre would lessen the emotional impact. I still don’t know the circumstances that lead to the Minbari accepting the ‘Minbari souls being born into human bodies-’ excuse so I can’t really say they would have stopped but it doesn’t sound as impossible as you word it. People willing to bare their necks in the face of genocide itself seems like an absurd and extreme action to take at any rate. Actually, this has gotten me to wondering what kind of religious belief(s) have developed in the Minbari culture. However I would not be surprised if the series didn’t really go into such things in depth or if they only were portrayed as have a narrow range of beliefs.

Of course, the Federation dealing the Minbari a major blow would be like pouring salt on the wound. Anger, fear, pride, and arrogance are only a few reasons I could see them acting like they are in this story. Not to mention those who are fueled by more personal or political motives. That doesn’t change the fact that I find it odd that, despite the curb-stomping the Federation did on the Minbari, they continued to brainlessly charge forward in battle with no strategy or tactics and completely ignored the fact that they should have known how all the previous battles had gone. Even if arrogant in victory they should have known it wouldn’t be as easy as they seemed to think. It was like they approached the battle thinking they would have a one sided massacre in their favor despite the fact that the record stated otherwise. Like they believed they were fighting the same old Human’s and that the Federations victories were nothing but a massive grouping of super flukes that just so happened to coincide in sequence and that the status quo would be back to normal in ‘this’ battle. Still, you did say that the information from the battlefield was being censored as not to cause panic or demoralize the people, or something to that effect. However, you never clarified the extent. Still the overall outcome would be enough to spell out that a battle against the Human forces would not be a simple thing at the very least. Regardless, while I know the depths of stupidity and un-reasonability that people descend to is seemingly without limits you do seem to be pushing it a bit here.

It seems to me that the Minbari don’t practice war games, ship/ground combat simulations, or any such training to maintain battle readiness. At least that’s what the Federation descriptions suggest with their claims. Because even if they didn’t fight anyone on their level for centuries, adequate training and mock battles should allow for a decent performance until they could make up the difference with experience. I guess the Federations mockery and the Minbari’s short comings have gotten me to question how they keep themselves combat ready and how people are chosen to go up the ranks. Is the number of years the individual has had as a soldier the only thing counted? Victories and battle experience against a much weaker group isn't exactly a high achievement after all.

If the Minbari are planning to wipe out the Human race on this side of the Galaxy, are fully willing to use planetary bombardment, know there is going to be a difficult and costly space battle, and have low birth rates then how utterly intoxicated did the retarded buffoon in charge of this attack have to be to even consider involving ground forces in the fleet much less having such large amounts. Any idiot would have known that with an enemy capable of destroying ships in a single hit and the extremely unlikely need for badly needed soldiers that the best thing to do is reduce the number of people on every ship to its bare minimum as to lose as few people as possible and make the most of the men you have. Hell, with the free space they could add hardware to provide the much needed computing capacity to aid in tracking the enemy ships (possibly add anything else that might help). In the unlikely event that they came across a situation where they needed ground forces, as they did, they could be sent in carefully and in limited amounts from a hidden group of ships stationed far from the actual battle itself.

Are the escape pods only being hit by chance or carelessness, because going out of your way to attack an unarmed escape pod when your surrounded by dangerous enemies, even if we put the morality of it aside, seems rather stupid no matter how you look at it.

The quote ‘destroying an empire to win a war is no victory, and ending a battle to save an empire is no loss’ seems both correct and incorrect depending on how you wish to look at it. If you change the core beliefs, values, or ways of an empire than you are destroying that empire. This is what the federation is aiming for with the Minbari, and that would be a victory. Wiping out an empire is, in general, another matter. But then some species like the Zerg from the Starcraft game and the War Hammer 20k game species, whose name I don’t remember well enough to spell, seem to seem to be the type that only extermination would halt. I suppose the first part depends on how you interoperate the phrases ‘destroying an empire’ and ‘victory’ really. The second part is flat out wrong. If you’re forced to sacrifice, even if it’s to prevent worse from happening, it’s still a loss. You may learn from it, it may be the best option, it may even be the most moral decision—however, you still lost. This part of the saying is pure pride soother. This saying seems to be meant to be taken in a specific perspective revolving around a moral high ground and idea strongly meant to be related and applied to situations like this. It’s basically a snooty way of saying its better to swallow your pride and accept a lesser loss or wrong to prevent a worse one than to worsen the situation for the sake of your pride. I have to admit though; it applies to the situation rather nicely. I can definitely see why you chose to use it.

I forgot to commit, but many chapters back the Federation seemed to act as if the fact that their Earth predated the other Earth meant theirs was the original. Maybe I just miss-remembered it, but that is an extremely arrogant view. For all they know they could be the one-hundredth and twenty-seventh Earth made. They have no knowledge of how many Earths there are or were they stand in that order other than the fact that they’re not the last. I kind of hope you have an older Earth show up later just to rub that fact in.

I might put off going further into the story for a while. I have to leave for boot camp soon. Hopefully, it wont be too long until I get a chance to get back to reading. It was nice to hear other perspectives, but this chapter seems to mostly be filler. It does hint at a few things to come though.

Looking back, I really should have read the commentary sections more often. Oh, well. Bad habit. It can be a bit difficult to keep track of all the information with so much going on chapter to chapter at times. However, the fact that so much is going on is also something I enjoy. Better than the story from going slow. I do wonder how the people of Earth survived against the Minbari in the original show.

Still, I don’t remember where that ship on the moon came from. Considering the Federation (I think the Klingons actually) were willing to blow up one of the sides’ ships without even trying to find/rescue any survivors I don’t see why the remains of one would be left behind. Nor does it explain why Humans from this corner of the galaxy seem to have made it into their base. Even if it’s being used as a trap by the Federation they would have no reason to allow the humans to snoop around inside, though considering they seem to be selective about what they allow the Babylon 5 humans to have they should have cleared it out technology and information wise. Yet, the shield is still there. Hmm…

If the Minbari now have sub-space sensors then they should be able to see why their ships clocks are not working. Of course even if they do at this point in the war they may not have the time to find and implement a counter of some sort, assuming they could find one.

Wow, Captain Kirk verbally tore them apart. Though, with as costly as this war is getting for them I’m surprised they trying to push on as strongly as they are. Nice job with Delenn’s character. She holds regrets, doesn’t like how things have spiraled out of control, and doesn’t come across as mindlessly arrogant blow hard like Val’thant. Yet, despite her better nature, she is still shaped by her upbringing. Of course, its not that I don’t understand that there are people that are so stuck on their beliefs that they refuse to change even when good reasons are metaphorically beaming them repeatedly upside their head. Still, the level of irrationality is absurd.

Damn, looking at the number of chapters ahead you’ve really gone far with this story. It’s not often I find a well written story I like that has long chapters and has progressed so far. That’s great!

I forgot to mention, the Minbari could have grabbed a defeated ship in the battle at Wolf 395 as they made their escape. Of all the times they’ve tried to obtain the federation’s technology and the one time they had a golden opportunity they didn’t take it. Of course, even if they had ships that could equal the Federation’s ships they would still lose the war in the long run.

I definitely find the Minbari actually putting some thought into their actions and putting up a decent fight more interesting. I hope the upcoming chapter continue to be as enjoyable to read.

Oh dear god, a tactical epiphany from a Minbari! And another whose head isn’t firmly lodged up his own butt hole! It’s a sign of the Apocalypse! Still, actually using strategy and having a chance at victory—that's what I’m talking about! Surprising that the Federation is not one step ahead like they otherwise have been.

However, if they have the ability to detect the singularities even through the more advanced clock, then how did they get past the Klingon ships? If range was a problem they would have been found as the Klingon closed the distance. If they switched off the clocking device they’d be detectable through normal means.

Now the Federation has the ability to predict the Minbari attacks and avoid them with greater ease than before? Not sure I understand how that works considering their computing capacity was supposed to be drastically improved.

The federation’s message was more reasonable than I expected. They claimed earlier that the Minbari would have to ‘Unconditionally Surrender’ or be forced back to a more primitive state. That and the anger presented makes me question what would be considered ‘reasonable.’ There’s also the Klingon to consider; and what would convince them to stop.

I don’t know much about either series, but damn. Not only are the Federation pulling new (mostly old really) tactics, weapons, and vehicles out pretty much every battle, but the Minbari seem to have an unbendable mind set. Why are the Minbari trying to think of strategies to improve their odds of success? Directly attacking the enemy, and improve technology seem to be all they consider. I’m torn between finding it amusing and finding it annoying. It is interesting seeing the various ways the Federation fights. I’m surprised the Federation even bothers wasting weapons, as it seems they can just use the transporters to pluck the enemy from the key positions of the ship and space them. Then finish the rest off just as easily. The only reason I see for them not doing so is it’s easier and faster to just fire a single attack to take out the whole ship.

Still, through sheer numbers, the amount of beam weapons , and the significantly faster computing ability I would think they would have been able to take out a few ships. Even with the illusions, each ship shooting a few beams at several at a time would lead to large sections of the battle field being covered by attacks and considering one of the major advantages the federation ships have is speed this seems more likely to increase the chances of getting hit than not. Also, despite the fact that jumping would have led to frying the engine is should still have allowed them to jump a considerable distance before the torpedoes get both far enough from what launched them to safely explode and close enough to be effective. With their faster computers and a short jump they could have closed in to their target and bombarded it if not hit it with the re-entry effect. Even if they lost their engines in the process it would still have been better than just dying and for those aiming for the planet they could have done major damage to those planet side before being taken out.

Well, time to move on to the next chapter.

I’m a little annoyed you gave the Minbari advanced stealth and turned around and made it so the Federation was now using a new method of tracking that basically negates that advantage. Still, I look forward to reading about this new weapon the Federation has. The Minbari get a tech upgrade and the Federation gets a new weapon. Well, so much for the idea of the Minbari getting anything resembling a victory, I’m sure. I may not want the Minbari to win, but their failures are almost embarrassing with the ease at which they get played. Also, I’m starting to wonder if all the elder races are very arrogant.

Didn’t know about the Klingon-mind sifter. I’m sure that’s useful. It would really suck for the Minbari if the Federation could find a way around their stealth fields. That’s all they have. It would be much better for the Minbari if they made smaller ships. Since their ships basically get destroy in a single short any way, it would take longer to destroy many and that is more time to attack the Federation ships. Seems like a good part is coming up.

I enjoy the fact that you have scenes allowing us to see the personal perspectives of the people involves. It not only gives us a broader perspective of the thoughts and views of those involved but also gives the story more depth.

It’s nice to see the Minbari becoming more than a cheep joke and cannon fodder. They are even using strategy now. I’m surprised, with the way the Minbari were talking not long back I was beginning to wonder if the had the common sense to see the facts for what they are despite being beamed repeatedly in the face by them from the first contact.

Minbari are improving tech strategy. Surprised they finally accept facts they’ve had their noses shoved in since the beginning. When they boarded the “USS DeFlores” they were said to have grabbed everything not tied down and four survivors were found and returned to the “Hestanna”. Though you didn’t specifically say so, I saw no reason why they wouldn’t have brought the things they found back with the prisoners rather than to the “Undaula”. It suggests they may have gotten technology. I look forward to seeing if they got something good from this. Also, the reason the stealth was ineffective was ignorance of sub space, but now they should know about it from the forced mind scan and can start looking for ways to hide their ships from the Federation sensors and start trying to figure out about sub space. However, even if they can do this the time they have till those many ships gut them is closing in.

Alyt Jaysonn had doubts about the danger presented? Considering they had videos of battles to back up this claim how could he doubt?

There was foreshadowing that the choice Jaysonn made regarding the prisoner would come back to haunt him. The Federation has no knowledge of the prisoners, believing to have killed all, if any, remaining members when they blew up the captured ship and the “Undaula” themselves. Unless the Minbari volunteer that information I don’t see how it would have mattered. I can’t see the Federation backing down and being talked into peace just yet even if the did return him. This might be interesting to see play out.

I'm thoroughly enjoying this piece of work and really hope that it gets worked on through to its rightful conclusion. Nice work AlbertG!

The Minbari are rather slow. What with how the confrontations have gone and their ships getting slaughtered its only when the Vengeance is on its last leg does the captain stop feeling arrogant.

Considering that they knew their attacks would be too slow to hit the Federation ships why not just aim some at the planet. It’s not like they have any problem with killing civilians. I’ll keep looking forward to the point where the Minbari actually receive their wake up call and start acknowledging facts and using strategy.

Man, the Minbari don’t even have weapons that are effective at long ranges. That's sad. It’s not like they couldn’t create a torpedo capable of making a short leap through jump-space with their technology. If something is released in jump space, without anything keeping it in jump space, would it return to normal space? I can think of a few useful strategic and tactical applications for that. Of course, I can think of two better ways of attacking a planet in a way that could potentially defeat the Federation ship, within the limits of the Minbari tech level, or at least cause the destruction of the planet in one case.

If the Klingon are warriors that love a good fight than this would not be something they would consider the greatest of fights. Victory is too easily obtained. The enemy is too pathetic to be considered a worthy foe. They would have to be able to put up a grand fight for it to qualify as the greatest of fights. Isn’t that why Kirk was stated to be considered the greatest enemy, or some such? Enjoying a one-sided slaughter doesn’t make you a warrior; it makes you a barbarian.

While there were several interesting parts the sheer one sidedness and shortness makes the battle difficult to truly enjoy. But then, I’ve always preferred those ‘by the skin of your teeth’ battles and strategy overcomes seemingly impossible situation type battles.