Wow. Um... Have you ever read Cormac McCarthy's "All the Pretty Horses"? It has some awesome imagery in it, especially the concept of a blind coin maker blindly selecting metal slugs and just as blindly putting them in a pressing machine. And depending on which side is up or down in that machine determines which side gets what design (or a blank face, depending on the currency being created, I suppose). It's an elaborate representation of/for Fate and God, or whether either exists at all or if it’s nothing but pure chance. Great book by a great author. But on the subject of Cybertronian A.I., I just don't buy it; but then I'm not a mathematician or whatever. One could argue the same about us. It sounds like something someone would come up with in a science lab, studying organisms (organic or otherwise) to see if they can prove whether intelligence exists or not. But then I'm a humanist/animal lover/vegan and I don't believe in dividing a living organism into its base components (read: vivisection) regardless of reason or possible "benefit to humanity". Just don't go there, 'kay. Please excuse the rant. I apologize if I offend you in anyway with anything I’ve written. I have very strong views. Anyway, as I see it, from a G1 (original Transformers) point-of-view, the really Cybertronians developed a "glitch" in their programming and this eventually led to them rebelling against their Quintessonian masters/creators and ultimately to their separate "evolution" as a sentient, if non-organic, species. Those same "glitches" in our programming (i.e.: minds or DNA) have lead to our own evolution, though they could just as easily have led to our destruction at the beginning of our existence as a new species, whenever that was. And still might for that matter, if we don’t do ourselves in first. Still, great job on this piece, even if I found it to be a trifle bit confusing, what with the technical language being used and all. Speaking of language: as I see it, it is a construct of our society, a by-product as it were, of our development in the last few thousand years or so. You could argue the same for the Cybertronians, non-organic/A.I. factors aside, though on a much larger timescale than our own of course. Sorry for the length of this review/feedback-thing.

This was reccomended to mine & AprilRavenGirl's new TF epic recs comm on LJ. I've never read it before.

It's definitely thought-provoking! Very interesting, very well-written, and I hope you get some more readers through us.

Thank you for sharing! My brain is going to be reeling now for a while. =D

Much Love
LD

I gotta raise my metaphorical hat to you. That wasn't a light read, certainly, but it's a very fascinating and thought-provoking one. I can only imagine with trepidation the hours of research you had to put into it. Then you actually worded your thoughts and arguments in a comprehensive and understandable way (which, I imagine, really isn't a walk in the park with such a complicated subject, I wouldn't even dare to try) and you kept it in-character, too! The mathematics went a bit over my head as the whole mechanics of a logical language were new to me, but I'm utterly fascinated by the Chinese room scenario and so I love how you applied it to a "real" world situation.

Among the philosophy and science, there were also some parts in that story that made me shiver. Like the question who created them as the transforming, pretending machines they are if the Chinese room theory is true. And then just as I was still wondering about the implications of there being some "other" who directs the fate of the Cybertronians and thus also earth, Ratchet just so happens to come across them as he takes some time off to smell the roses.

I found his explanation that he'd come to look at something beautiful utterly creepy... Maybe this just plain disproved all their theories and Cybertronians have souls or Ratchet is trying to add to his rulebook, but it might also have been him informing her that the Autobots know about Maggie's research or even a threat not to dig deeper.

Although the thought that their whole war started over some code malfunction is even creepier. Because if a glitch caused that once, it could happen again and the nice, friendly neighbourhood Autobots could turn into humanity's exterminators because of the mech equivalent of a Blue Screen of Doom.

Wow. Just... Wow!!

Who would've thought that a fanfiction can make my brain hurt SO much. But this is a FASCINATING story that offers truly amazing, probably never-thought-elsewhere ideas. I really want to say something intelligent, but I just have to think abut this, mull it a bit what you've said, lol.

Ah, you've rendered me brain-dead!
It's very well written though. The info and pacing is very well thought out.
You must be very good at writing essays also!

WOW, very impressive. You know, for someone like me who dislikes math, I actually followed that pretty well. very interesting. Nice job! :):):):)

...Dang. I only understood about half of that, I think, but what I did understand, I find fascinating. Like Autobots only really being ghosts in the shell, about them not really being artificial intelligence. Like this whole war with the Decepticons started over an inconsistency in logic. You kinda blew my mind here, like a lot. You've obviously put a lot of thought and time into this. I can do nothing but applaud you.

Wow...gee I feel like I'm back in my ?Bio-Psychology class again... I actually was able to understand that AND freak out because of what Maggie(You) were saying. You really made me think on this one. Very well done and certainly is a relief that the whole verse is just Sci-fi...(shivers)

Darklight

Ah.. My brain. It hurts. LOL Really, that was pretty cool. However, think about the name Decepticons. Deception. Essentially a whole faction is about hiding the truth. The most effective lies are half-truths or ones that are harder to prove or disprove. So at least the Decepticon could possibly understand more abstract and debatable concepts, if only so that they can take advantage of them. And because the Transformers presumably have the same language, regardless of side (big assumption there), the languange may not be as completely logical as they believe. As you said, it is possible to be wrong about yourself.

Again, loved the story. It is probably good for me to have to think sometimes.

..wow absolutely fantastic (even if it was kinda hard o follow)! great ending

A really interesting piece, and a chance to stretch my dusty ol' philosopher's cap. I'll definitely be taking a look at your references. (The internet is a beautiful thing!) Not having either read much of what you address or the larger part of Transformers continuity, I'm coming to a battle of wits unarmed, but I'll throw this in the ring anyway. Aren't transformers by their own continuity in fact a sort of Chinese box? If I understand the concept correctly, the Spark would be the operator in this case... a Transformer, for all their talk of circuits and processors, is (to my understanding) contained more or less completely in that spark. Even when a robot is rebuilt after destruction and re-sparked (again, running almost purely on wiki here) it seems that they come out of the experience essentially changed.

Of course, that doesn't necessarily make this a truth in the movies, where we do have a limited view of how they view themselves and the universe. In that framework, your story does raise some uncomfortable questions, as well as building an argument that it's hard to refute without a sort of arm-flailing denial.

Thank you for sharing this, and I look forward to exploring the ideas you've set forth here.

Brilliant stuff! A real head spinner.

Woah.
Just, just woah. I'm not sure I followed all the nuances of that, but I certainly followed the basic gist of it. I seriously never thought of that. ComPLETELY whacked. But you did a very good job in any case. Thank you so very much for a story that is entirely different from everything here.

Whoa. I am in awe after reading this. The skill and intellect behind this is amazing. I'm very glad I decided to read a 2007 moiveverse story after all. Not only does a story like this make one think, but it deepens all the characters concerned in that universe. (Something they very much needed.) It also gives a reason for the Cybertronians in the movie not having much in the way of personality, with an exception or two. Plus, you had Glenn and Maggie dead-on in my opinion. Thank you.

You. Are. Bloody. Brilliant.

This was fabulous, deep and inviting to swim in. How do you reach beyond the spit and polish to metal, marrow of this world.

You are a writer like Plato, spinning a world of light and air into words for us poor fools studying shadows on the wall.