Susan Pevensie-Hunter

An interview by Jacob Sormak, BBC correspondent.

I met Susan Pevensie-Hunter – then Susan Pevensie – in 1963, while I was studying for my BA at Oxford. She had recently won an Academy Award for Best Actress for her performance in From Here to Eternity (which won three others that year) and was visiting Oxford to attend the wedding of a friend. By fortunate coincidence, we met in a local bookshop and she agreed to an interview with me at a nearby (and thankfully empty) café. At the time, I was interested to see if I could use such a work for accreditation, but it turned out to be unsuitable for the course. Nonetheless, Ms. Pevensie asked me to keep the interview and, whenever I felt it right, to publish it. Unfortunately, I then forgot about it until recently, nearly two years after her death at the age of 78. I have tried to be as honest to the events as possible and so provided a direct transcript, with as little personal analysis as possible.

NB. Where personal pronouns (particularly He and Him) are capitalised, it was implied by an inflection in the speech, suggesting a particularly strong significance.

Jacob Sormak: Hello, Ms. Pevensie. How are you?

Susan Pevensie: I’m very well, thank you, although I beg that you call me Susan. Ms. Pevensie makes me feel so old.

JS: Very well, Susan. So, tell us about your latest film, From Here to Eternity. I understand this was your first serious film role.

SP: Yes. I very nearly didn’t get it. Deborah Kerr was the favourite for the part, but the director chose me over her. It was… rather… (long pause)

JS: Overwhelming?

SP: (quietly) Yes, I suppose you could say that.

JS: (coughs) Well, Ms. – er, Susan, you are a relatively new sensation to the world of film, and no one really knows anything about you, aside from your acting and modelling career. Care to enlighten us?

SP: Well, I don’t suppose there really is much more to enlighten. For so long, my career has driven me. Modelling, acting, it’s become my life. (smiles) Oh dear, I’m sounding rather mellow, aren’t I? I sound like I don’t enjoy it. I really do; the sensation of losing yourself in a role, even if it’s not a written one, like when you’re modelling, it’s… It’s exhilarating. But apart from that, I’m not really sure what else to tell you.

JS: How about your early life? Where were you born? Your family?

SP: (long pause, during which she stirs her coffee, not drinking) I was born here, in Oxford, but we moved to London when I was two because my mother was pregnant. There were some complications with the pregnancy, and the nearest doctor who could help was based in Baker Street, which was just too much of a journey from Oxford. So we moved and my parents ended up staying there.

JS: You have a sibling?

SP: I did.

JS: Oh, I’m sorry-

SP: Don’t worry. Yes, I did. In actual fact, I had three. Two brothers and a sister. They… They died, fourteen years ago. In fact, it will be fourteen years exactly this time next month.

JS: I’m sorry. I didn’t know.

SP: (laughing) Few do. The only ones who would care died with them. My parents, my cousin… My aunt and uncle died a few years later. (short pause) It was a train. It derailed a short distance from the station, killing all of them. I was the only one spared. (long silence, during which she takes a small sip of coffee and winces at the taste) I suppose that revelation has rather a tendency to stop conversation.

JS: Er… (rifles through notes, then coughs) I, er, I understand that you moved to Edinburgh.

SP: (chuckling) That was just for the partying, mainly. I had some friends from school who were all going to Edinburgh, and I wanted to follow them. For the socialising, you understand. While my parents had left me a sizeable sum in inheritance… I wanted to make my own way into the world. And the only way to do that, I thought, was to marry someone who could provide.

JS: But that didn’t happen?

SP: No. I met a few men, but none of them stuck, and very few got beyond the flirting stage – despite the stereotype associated with students, I was not as promiscuous as some of my friends. I found it all to be so… tiring. Eventually I stopped focussing on finding a man and looked to finding a career.

JS: In modelling.

SP: No, first I wanted to be veterinarian. My dream was to become a physician for exotic animals. You know, animals from Africa and Asia, like lions or… Well, lions were the main passion. I always wanted to treat lions.

JS: Do you like lions in particular, then?

SP: No. Well, yes. I think the problem was that I idealised them. They were these magnificent, powerful creatures that couldn’t be touched or harmed, the Kings of the Wild, you know? They were the archetypal symbol of strength and… righteousness. And yet they were so dangerous. They could kill you or rip out your heart without a second thought, completely uncaring of your em- of your life. (her speech has been rising, and now returns to a normal level) I guess what I wanted to do was just to prove that even the King of the Beasts isn’t infallible, that He still needs help or care.

JS: (coughs) But you didn’t become a veterinarian, did you?

SP: (chuckling) No. Someone offered me a spot of modelling, just on the side, to help as I worked through university – it was harder for older students in those days, and I was in my mid-twenties at this point – and it sort of grew, until I dropped out of university and went on to modelling as a career.

JS: Any regrets about that?

SP: (takes a sip of coffee) Of course there are thoughts. What-ifs. But there aren’t regrets, per se. I… I suppose the only thing I would regret would be the fact that my family weren’t around for long enough to see me or support me. My siblings and I… we didn’t have the best of relationships at the end. I was rather a headstrong child, as was my elder brother, and we tended to fight rather a lot. We didn’t always. We used to be close, but then he… Well, such is life. We drifted apart.

JS: So, let’s talk about today, this chapter of your life. Are there any… interests? Romantically?

SP: (chuckles) Unfortunately, I’m about as popular with men now as I was when I was younger. There is interest, don’t get me wrong, but rarely on my part.

JS: (jokingly) I understand you’ve gained a reputation in the film industry as a bit of an Ice Queen.

SP: (loses all humour in face) Yes. That’s not really a name that I particularly relish.

JS: (hurriedly) My apologies, I didn’t mean to offend.

SP: Don’t worry. It is, unfortunately, true that they call me an Ice Queen. I’ve just… I’ve never liked it. It brings back memories of childhood games. (a pause, during which she ponders) During the Second World War, my siblings and I were evacuated to the country. We stayed with a Professor… Kirke, I think his name was. Anyway, he was a nice enough man, but I don’t think he relished the company of children very much. So we were left pretty much to our own devices, and we developed a fairytale story to keep our minds off of what could be happening to our parents. Anyway, the villain of the story was a White Witch, who made it eternally Winter but never Christmas. You see how fanciful it was. Anyway, the Ice Queen comments always make me think of those summers spent playing childhood games with my siblings.

JS: I understand. So, I hear you’re in Oxford to attend a wedding?

SP: Yes, I’m one of the bridesmaids. (chuckles) You would be surprised how many invitations I have had to be involved in weddings since From Here to Eternity. Bridesmaids, Maid of Honour, even a bride on some occasions! (laughs, although it sounds slightly forced) Of course, this is a couple I actually do know, and not a couple of random people I met on the street. Maryanne Hull and Sebastian James; a lovely couple.

JS: So, while you’re in Oxford, have you got anything you’re working on? Any scripts in the pipeline?

SP: (sighs) To be brutally honest, I can’t summon the energy for another film just yet. It’s all so much work. Not even just the actual acting, but also trying to get on with everyone on set. I don’t know if I can deal with another six or seven months dealing with people who are convinced that a crèche is something that happens on the M1.

JS: (chuckles)

SP: It’s true! And the worst thing is that people then think that I’m like that. That I’m some air-headed bimbo who has no idea of the world around her, who has no political opinions or ideas, who probably doesn’t even know the current Prime Minister! And I can’t prove that I’m not like that, because due to the nature of my job, I surround myself with people who actually are. (thoughtful pause) What do you think?

JS: I beg your pardon?

SP: What strikes you about me? Not physically, I mean, but my character.

JS: Er… well… It’s not really my place…

SP: Nonsense. If it helps, we can speak off the record, so you don’t have to add this bit in. But tell me what your initial impressions are of me. I’m interested to know.

JS: OK. Well, you’re… a confident woman? (tentatively gets more confident as he goes on) You’re attractive, there’s little doubt about that, and while you know that and use it, you don’t really do it in a way that is detrimental to you as a whole. It doesn’t make you seem promiscuous or anything like that, merely… I don’t know. I can’t really think of a proper adjective.

SP: (says nothing, merely studies critically)

JS: But at the same time, and I hope you don’t mind me saying, but I can see why people may be afraid of you. You have… a way of holding yourself. You’re very in control of yourself. I think people call you Ice Queen because you don’t lower yourself to their level, but that’s not entirely right. You’re not an Ice Queen, but Queen is definitely fit. Regal.

SP: (mumbles) Once a King or Queen…

JS: Sorry?

SP: Never mind. (smiles) You’re going to make a very good reporter some day, Mr. Sormak.

JS: Jacob.

SP: (smiles) Jacob. I’ve told you more in the last twenty minutes than I have told some of my closest friends. You are a very easy person with whom to speak. (takes a sip of her coffee) I have been keeping so much of this silent for so long… I haven’t spoken of my true feelings or ideas since before the train wreck.

JS: (curiously) What happened?

SP: (long silence, in which she finishes her coffee and looks down into the dregs, jumping slightly. She continues without looking up) I lied earlier. About the lions. It’s not just what I said; the lions stalk me. I see them everywhere, watching me, following me. I know it seems crazy, and I realise that they aren’t actually following me, it’s just tricks in my perception, but still… (hands over empty cup) Take that and tell me what you see.

JS: (looking into cup) The dregs of coffee. I suppose if you were looking for some diving purpose, it could be some sort of star?

SP: I see a lion, staring up with eyes that seem to dance, even though they are made of porcelain and waste milk and coffee. Its main is the large focus in the centre, and its body fades away behind it into the leftover liquid.

JS: (frowning) I see it now.

SP: I see them everywhere. The lions. I see them everywhere; hear their roars on the wind every so often… Every time I see a lion, I think of them; the Lion was part of the games, you see. I think of… of Peter, Edmund and Lucy. (looks down, hiding her face. When she looks up again, she is crying softly) I often lie awake at night and wonder if the lions are real, even though I rationally know it’s impossible. I wonder why I can barely remember my siblings faces in the dreary, darkened rooms of Professor Kirke’s house, only in the fantasy, make-believe world in which we played. Why images of lions, fauns and witches seem more real to me than my parents, and why I can’t imagine saying my siblings’ names without adding titles, like we used to make up. Peter the Magnificent, Edmund the Just and Lucy the Valiant.

JS: And who were you?

SP: I… Who was I? Who am I now? I remember being the voice of caution, always scolding them for doing anything wrong or dangerous. Was that all I was? Was I the voice of the Real World calling them back and telling them off? Was that all I was? A spoilsport?

JS: Tell me about the games.

SP: (looks at him, surprised) They were just games. We had to stop playing them eventually.

JS: But what were they?

SP: There was a wardrobe. Lucy said that was the doorway through to the other world, where it was always Winter, but never Christmas. That’s such a childish construct, don’t you think? That fear of Christmas being cancelled. And that was why we built a story around stopping the Witch who did it. Battles, monsters, all sorts. Fanciful children’s stories, that’s all they were.

JS: And the Lion? You said It was a part of it.

SP: Yes. The Lion. He saved Edmund from a traitor’s death and killed the Witch. He… (she looks around the empty café, then looks at the reflection in the window that leads to the street) He stopped me from coming back. I remember that. That was when I stopped believing in it all.

JS: Believing in what? The stories?

SP: Narnia. (her head drops and her shoulders shake as she cries) Narnia (she sounds relieved) The world was called Narnia. (laughs) It’s been nearly fourteen years since I’ve even said the name. And the Lion, His name was… (she pauses, as though scared) Aslan. Aslan. Narnia and Aslan, the Lion.

JS: Are you alright, Ms. Pevensie?

SP: Susan. (pause) Susan the Gentle. That’s who I was. That was my title in the Make Believe. Queen Susan the Gentle. (smiles, looking happy and relieved)

JS: (uncomfortably) Erm, Susan, are you alright?

SP: (grinning) I’m fantastic, Jacob. And you have apparently missed your calling as a psychologist. It feels so good to remember the names again. To just let it sound in my head. Narnia. Doesn’t it sound wonderful? Nar-nia.

JS: Susan, would you like me to get you something? A glass of water, maybe?

SP: (giggling) Honestly, I’m fine. I’m feeling a bit giddy, is all. I’ve been carrying all of that around for so long; trying to keep all of those memories of childhood bottled up inside. You have no idea how incredible it feels to be able to speak about it freely. (stands up and moves to the door) Thank you, Jacob, for listening.

A/N: Now, there are several factual things wrong with this story. Firstly, and most obviously, Susan Pevensie did not star in From Here to Eternity, since she is a fictional character. However, I needed a famous film from that time, and that was the first I could think of. Also, for the really astute people out there, you’ll notice I’ve adapted the timeline ever so slightly to make it so that Susan was going to university when the train wreck occurred, but that’s really just a tiny thing. I’m sorry that she just seems to spill everything so quickly – and to an OC at that! – but I just really liked this idea when I thought of it and had to write it down in one sitting. Which I did. Enjoy. Please R&R.