It seems like almost every other story is a female self-insert hooking up with Batman. Discuss.

It is a bit of a pattern, isn't it? I'm all for the spunky, confident heroine getting her man...but only in moderation, and with originality. And with some REALISM: this is Batman's world after all, and we know it's not all happy endings.

I think there is a two-pronged attack that could be taken in response to the problem:

1) We, the authors, can begin expanding our abilities beyond the normal love story. Those are all very well and good, but there is SO much more to play with in the Batverse. Look at the city that we have at our disposal! The characters! The tormented psyches! We have a playground full of possibilities; let's go beyond our comfort zones and write more ambitious, more multifaceted stories while simultaneously pushing for....

2) More beta-ing. By the time a reader reviews with some constructive criticism, it's generally too late to get an author to change his/her mind. What those people who want to see a change need to do is BECOME BETA READERS. Nip problematic plotlines, characters, and events in the bud by helpfully nudging authors along.

Sound like a plan?! (looks around) Who's with me?!

I'm soo totally with you on that and I don't want that to happen with the story I'm writing at the moment. So can I ask you girls a huge huge favour? I need help with that so my story doesn't end up like that, will anyone help???

Murtaghgirl, I'd be happy to help. As some people might be able to tell you, my forte is with the character of Jonathan Crane - check out 'Dark My Light' and 'The Equestrian' to get an idea of "how I roll" as an author. However, I'm willing to look at any and all stories that have to do with the lovely Batverse.

This also goes for anyone else looking for a beta. I am available! And even if my stories and style aren't quite your thing, I'm sure there are other authors and editors on this site who will suit your needs to a T.

I like your style, Blodeuedd. I am a very young writer and I will admit there is a lot of work to be done to perfect my writing skills but I love writing and I want to make this TDK story I'm writing a memorable one. It is my first Batman story soo if you don't mind, please please please do help me out.

I've tried using a beta but they don't always get back to me :(. I need someone who can help me finish my story because my beta just stopped answering my PMs.

These days it is a female self-insert hooking up with The Joker! Incredibly painful. I can tolerate Joker/Rachael Dawes.... and even those are often badly written

Yuck. It is really, truly a difficulty finding a well-written Joker/OC fic - the process of weeding through the overwraught, cliched stories is almost enough to make me give up. I used to think Cranefic authors had it bad, trying to make up a female protagonist likable and realistic enough for their dear Doctor Crane. But the Joker...oh, man! That's a whole different story. You are writing a character for a man who would just as soon plant a bomb in a woman as ask her out on a date. I'm not surprised many people have failed in the attempt.

I don't really even bother looking. People who are fan of the 'old' Joker have much more canon to go on, but as for Ledger's Joker we actually have very little to work with. Did we even see a moment in The Dark Knight where he is frightened, or is feeling something less than murdergasms? In a way I guess this gives us a wider margin to dabble in, but still, epic fails incarnate all over the frickin place... I've just started writing a Batman fic with Ledger's Joker and I decided to completely get rid of pairing - well, I think so - and put the characters in a totally alien situation. So much easier to make them do what I want ahahaa.

When people write about The Joker falling in love with his psychiatrist or a hostage-turned-sidekick.... *facepalm* Batman/Joker fics...... I don't really get that, though I am reading one exceptional example at the moment. Dent/Joker and Gordon/Joker - now those are just plain nasty!!!

ANYONE! If yoosies want I could beta. I mean, I admit I haven't published any fanfics on this website, but that's to do with complications with the internet and programmes. Anywho...I would really like to help, you don't have to or anything. Don't feel inclined to, but you know. Wow, I'm rambling. But, yeah. I'm on this site a lot so I could totally help out. OMG totally rambling at this point. Ah well. Bye!

What would you say if you could mix Heath's Joker and the 'old'/comic's Joker, that would be interesting, the comic's Joker could fill the details that Heath's Joker's cannon leaves out?

Yes and no - I miss the 'old' Joker's mischief and imagination, but the Ledger Joker makes no effort to fill the clown shoes of the previous incarnation. I suppose a very talented author could bridge that gap, but I haven't seen it yet. In the meantime, I prefer the two extremes - clownish and playful vs. morbid and anarchistic.

The two Jokers are both completely different from each other. A combination of them both would be very, VERY hard to do. Even how they are made is completely different. Nicholson's Joker fell into a vat of chemicals, and although the origin of Ledger's Joker is unknown, the chemical story can be quickly dismissed as the Joker can be seen breifly without makeup in TDK. I think they were meant to be two totally different entities, but the same general idea of chaos and fear. Two sides of the same coin, if you will.

The two Jokers are both completely different from each other. A combination of them both would be very, VERY hard to do. Even how they are made is completely different. Nicholson's Joker fell into a vat of chemicals, and although the origin of Ledger's Joker is unknown, the chemical story can be quickly dismissed as the Joker can be seen breifly without makeup in TDK. I think they were meant to be two totally different entities, but the same general idea of chaos and fear. Two sides of the same coin, if you will.

Yes, they're different in origin and the finer details, but could we not see a Nolan Joker getting a little more playful with his psychopathic tricks or an old-school Joker becoming even more twisted and brutal? It's entirely possible - FF.net is dedicated to letting us create worlds governed by our rules.

I agree in theory, though, that the two ought to be kept separate merely for continuity purposes. Wouldn't do, having a TDK Joker using giant wind-up toys to attack a city or an animated-series/early-film Joker cutting people, would it? :)

I'm not saying it would be impossible to combine the two. It would just be up to a damn good writer to do so. I mean, there are a lot of fanfics out there who have tried and failed. I'm all for being creative with it, but some are just. . .no. Either way, I bow down to your endless wisdom, Blodeuedd. :)

Well, wait, you have a point! It takes an amazing writer to capture the archetype of the Joker - Nolan, Nicholson, animated-cartoon, you name it. Inexperienced authors ought to keep honing their skills and keep their distance.

Gah, again with the wisdom! I very much agree with you but I'm starting to think about how the Joker in my story may have turned out. . . I gave him a few quirks but was that in character? I was going for Heath's Joker but was it more Jack's Joker? *Hyperventilates*

Oh, stop it, now. :) Flattery will get you everywhere.

No fanfiction canon character is 'in character', at the end of the day. It's impossible for us to perfectly adhere to what the original creators had in mind. You have to take some liberties to be interesting, while also appeasing the audience that fell in love with the characters and events of the original piece of work. I'll be the first to admit it's a delicate balance!

But with the right incentives and wriggling, fanfic veterans can get a canon character to do almost anything and have it seem in-character. Get to know the person you're writing, learn to see the world through his or her eyes, and then place the events 'just so' to watch your personal vision come to life. :)

*stops hyperventilating* Yes of course. The Joker can be anyone's Joker, just like he was Nolans' Joker. I mean, there are so many versions of the Joker, you would think they aren't even the same person! I guess I feel better now. :) Thank you kindly.

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