Time for the Mary-Sue and Gary Stu lecture. *ahem*

SUE's ARE NOT GOOD! NO NO NO NO!! I'm not that worried about Gary Stus becuase:

1. They come up less in Fics all round in all Fandoms.

2. OCs are usually created by fangirls who want nothing but to have a romantic relationship with ____cannon character. (Admit it. No use lying to yourself.)

3. They usually portray the person the author wants to be. Enough said.

4. Unless you have created a Sue AND a Stu, you are unlikely to get the canon character into the plot. You have long paragraphs describing what the Sue/Stu looks like. (Yes fanboys, you too.) You describe what they like, what they do, their voice, their hair and eyes.

These are just some Sue/Stu symptoms. I *would* tell you all to make your OCs do the Litmus test, but seeing as this is FFvii....I shall make one in due course.

It is just, over 90% of the created characters esp. paired with canon and classified as 'romance' in genre, turn out to be a Sue/Stu. It seems to be unavoidable. And I am in a position to say so because I am nearing the end of my ArtemixOC. (But as you have noticed, it is completely non-related to FFvii. Never mind, eh?)

-Make sure the Canon doesn't loose his/her's characteristics. If they are not a romantic person, tehy are NOT, I repeat, are NOT a romantic person. If they change, it takes TIME. E.g. more than 3 chapters, 7000words. Not a paragraph, and suddenly, Tseng is all over a random street girl with knives. No.

I *would* say more, but I will stop (for now. *crosses out*) for people to start objecting to the points I have made. *bows*. Be my guest. Argue away.

OCxSeph - Almost always Sues.

OCxKYLE (Kadaj, Yazoo, Loz, ...?) - Almost always Sues.

OCxCloud, Vincent, Rufus, etc. - Almost always Mary. Freaking. Sues.

And if you try to tell the author that it's a Mary Sue (Even if you do it nicely), they act like you just threw the most horrible insult in history in their faces, and started attacking them personally. Then, they generally get their rabid fanbase (Which consists of two people screaming "OHH TEHY GOT TOGETRS ME SU HAPPIE!!!!!11!1!") to join the fray.

....I've had a few bad experiences with that if you couldn't tell

On the other hand, though, I’ve heard that people take anti-Sueism as an instruction not to write any OC ever, which’s really not the intent. But I’m with you on OCxCanon. Don’t think I’ve ever bothered to so much as click on one.

And for those trying to look through my files, I do have Origanl characters in my stories and yes, one of the characters did shag someone from FF7. Obviously, since there is a kid. But, are the two in love? Nope. Was that character made perfect? Nope. Is there logical reasoning behind every action? Yes.

I have written mary sue stories before *shudders* So, I'm not going to 'hate' on anyone who has, but I do not like that pairing at all. I think, in order for it to work, it would take a LOT of work and serious consideration for whom the character is that you are trying to pair for it to really work out. If writers don't take the time to actually sit and think of what traits that other character would like, and what could possibly make them fall in love or even LIKE someone as a friend, they need to take all the horrible flames that will come their way.

This is hard for those writers who *can* write OC- if you are good enough, and above a certain level, retaining an at-least-borderline-Sue is not all that hard. Now, I'm not saying i"m great or anything (proves it by typoing) but I'm working on a OC fic at the moment, and it is well recieved.

*ahem*- That is what Genesis is for! *raises a flag* -There *is* a Best Original Character category-- and we *shall* fish out those oCs who are good!

-z-

That's my problem, anyway. I try to read them, but no matter how much I try, I always go in expecting the worst.

~Fran

1) Freakish Beauty: Mary Sue is (Usually. Sometimes it's all in the personality) more beautiful than any other female in the game, or that could probably ever exist in games or real life. She often has extremely detailed descriptions of her physical appearance, or at least more so than the other characters. She also tends to have "unique" hair or eye colors that certainly aren't normal for the world.

2) The OOC Effect: As a matter of fact, she's so beautiful that every male character that the author likes happens to fall in love with her, while all of the males said author doesn't like and all of the females who could be "competition" for her suddenly go wildly out of character. Normally, they become complete **** heads, and are always jealous of the men (For the male characters the author doesn't like) or jealous of the Sue (For the female characters). One example is Padme from Star Wars. In the presence of Mary Sue, she becomes a traitorous whore who only pretends to love Anakin, and Anakin soon realizes what a slutty, low-down ***** she is, and turns to the Sue instead. That, or she just doesn't exist.

3) Personality Disorder: She has no real personality flaws. She's the perfect blend of intelligent, witty, kind, aggressive, loving, stubborn, and so on and so forth. She's a mix of all possible good personality traits, and none of the bad ones.

4) Authority? What Authority?: In most cases, even when she does have "flaws", Sue will have almost no issues with a higher authority. Did she completely ignore her captain's orders, refuse to wear her uniform, disrespect her superiors, and generally just flaunt the fact that she has no respect for anyone with a higher rank than her? Who cares, she's just so beautiful and perfect that the big guy/girl in charge can't help but forgive her for that tiny problem with listening to orders.

5) Loss is nonexistent: Of course, they might not care that she completely disobeyed orders because disobeying those orders just happened to lead her to the one thing that not even the most intelligent and observant canon character could possibly figure out, which also happened to lead to Ms. Sue defeating the uber enemy that's completely capable of dominating every hero in existence, from Pre-Crisis Superman to Bugs Bunny at the same time.

6) Super Medical Miracle: And of course, as always, defeating this evil had absolutely no physical effect on the character. No matter how horribly she was beaten before winning (Pff. As if), she never has so much as a scratch on that unbelieveably beautiful face. After all, she can't get with the canon character that the auth...That Ms. Sue happens to love.

7) She comes from where now?: Sue often has various extraordinary backgrounds. If she isn't some pathetic attempt at a sob story (Oh, my parents died when I was little and I raised myself since I was two until my horrible horrible step parents kidnapped me and beat me everyday until I became the Uber Light Warrior when I was ten and killed a hundred giant monsters who destroyed my home town) so she can gain sympathy from the canon characters, then she's some mystical creature (Fairy, vampire, uber-prophecy child who happens to be the only one who can kill the big bad, seeing as it's her destiny. Y'know, that type of thing) with a destiny like no other.

8) SPOILERS FOR THE END: In some cases, she actually dies. Of course, she couldn't die like a normal person, oh no. She dies some freakishly sappy and cliche death usually involving saving the heroes and killing the big bad in the process. And obviously she gets the guy before she dies, though this usually requires him being extremely OOC.

9) The Negotiator: She can solve any and all problems that the canon characters would normally be able to handle themselves, but for the duration of the story have suddenly lost the ability to manage. Are _____ and _____ having relationship problems? Sue is there to help. Is Sephy crying and lost because he doesn't know how to make up for the horrible things that he's done? Sue is there. Do Squall and SeeD not know how to stop the new uber-sorceress? Sue is there. Does Cloud need someone to open the pickled chocobo feet jar for him? Sue is there. She's the ultimate problem solver. Actually, it's quite surprising that she hasn't taken up psychology as a profession, seeing as she'd make one hell of a killing on it.

Obviously there are more, or different, opinions on what make a Sue/Stu what they are. However, as I said, those are a few of the things I see describing them pretty often.

Thank you VinCon01!

~Fran

The biggest difference of all is that OCs, even the romantically-involved ones, tend to be believable. Despite whatever connections they may have to the canon characters, they could be the drunk on the street, the secretary in the office, even the next-door neighbor. Mary Sues/Gary Stus are NEVER believable. And nobody that perfect ever exists, even in a bishie-rich environment such as FFVII. How do you tell the two apart? Simple: ask yourself "Could I see this person walking past me on the street in real life?" If the answer is no, then you've just encountered a Mary Sue/Gary Stu, my friend.

2) I disagree on the actual cast. I suppose Seph could be considered one, but I think major villains almost always have Sue/Stu-like qualities. It's just part of what makes them such a huge threat. For example, in Sephiroth's case, his "dark past" was a little more complex than "My mommy and daddy hated me and beat me every day and I lived on the streets where I got adopted into a gang and taken on as the leader's uber-apprentice and then the bad scientist man experimented on me and I killed a bunch of people *cries, angsts*". Not to mention that while Seph had a dark past, after Nibelheim he didn't care. He was just an arrogant psycho who thought he was superior to everything. I think the difference between the canon characters and the fanon Sues/Stus is that the canon characters don't tend to have more than a couple of these traits, while Sues tend to have several. The canon characters' situations also have a tendency to be a bit deeper and more complex than a Sue/Stu's.

But yeah, there are certainly good, believable OCs out there. I just have trouble finding them through the seemingly countless Sues/Stus in fanfiction.

Another nitpick I have with OCs - A common (but not definitive) sign of Sues are exotic names. I don't know if your Jalei is or isn't a Sue (I don't care either way), but that's another easy way to spot a typical Sue. (Which makes sense, when added on to the exotic features/beauty/etc.)

The major thing that indicates a Sue is the "quickly inform everybody of everything" tactic that so many Sue authors utilize. There's generally nothing wrong if a character just HAPPENS to go through so many hardships (it's far-fetched, doubtless, but not outside of the realm of possibility), but you would expect said character to be a bit touchy on the subject, or at least apprehensive. Sues are often described within the first few paragraphs of their introduction, in minute detail.

If their horrible "woe is me" past isn't gone into in extensive detail at this point, then when it DOES come up, it is revealed with little or no reservation. Afterwards, there may be some crying, some soothing, but everything's eventually wrapped up very nicely, and the Sue and co. are on their merry way again, all things understood, all things forgiven, etc.

Personally, I find that OCs are generally harder to create in a fixed environment (ie fanfiction) than in original literature, as you have to then figure out how to incorporate them into a world that may or may not suit them. I criticize many an author for doing this, but I also have problems with this - in my major FFVII story, many of the main characters are OCs, and almost all of them are descendants of the original FFVII characters. What's worse, I created them with nearly (if not exactly) the same fighting abilities as their counterparts (Cirrus with Cloud's Ultima Weapon, Ruana with Tifa's hand-to-hand combat, Nuboko with Cid's spear/lancing skills, etc.), and if that doesn't say "cliche as crap," then I don't know what does. The only thing I can try to do now is to work around that frame to make things a bit more believable. (That or re-write the whole story, which wouldn't necessarily be the most exciting thing to do.)

But, as far as pairing OCs with canon characters, I surely don't mind. I could see Cloud with someone other than Tifa, mainly because they wouldn't be able to take their relationship to the next level. In a way, Vincent is already paired with an OC in Shelke. Yuffie, judging by how DoC developed everybody, would seem the most likely to have a relationship with some original character (most likely some member of royalty or something). So OCs are fine in relationships; the only problem comes with the actual development of said OC, and it's something that most authors just aren't willing to invest their time into. After all, they wouldn't get anything out of doing so, so why bother, right?

Only one thing I really disagree with. I wouldn't really say that Vincent is paired with an OC in Shelke, seeing as there really isn't much there. He still seems to be pining after Lucrecia (Though he does seem to have forgiven himself, for the most part), and Shelke...Well, I doubt she really has the emotional development (At this point in time) to really be in a relationship.

While we're on the subject of relationships, I have to ask something. Why is it that everyone has to be paired with someone else? Maybe it's just me, but I find it unrealistic and, depending on the characters being paired, a bit annoying when everyone has to be paired with someone. It's not something that always bothers me, but it gets a bit tiring for me when people seem to be putting characters with people for nothing other than the purposes of having them with someone. It might work in a fairy tale, but when it comes down to it, not everyone is going to settle down and have a nice big family. I wouldn't rule it out for the party, but honestly, what are the odds that Cloud, Tifa, Barret, Vincent, Cid, Yuffie, Reeve, Red XIII, Reno, Rude, Elena, Tseng, Rufus, Shera, Zack, Angeal, Genesis, Sephiroth, Jenova, Kadaj, Loz, Yazoo, Hojo, Weiss, Rosso, Nero, Azul, Shelke, Argento, Lucrecia, Shalua, Elmyra, Biggs, Wedge, Jessie, the Restrictors, the WEAPONS, and Boko the Chocobo are all going to end up living happily ever after with someone (Generally another person in the list)? Like I said, it wouldn't rule it out for Crisis Avalanche (The FFVII party), but I really think authors can (NOTE: Can. Not do or will) go overboard with it sometimes.

Even then, it only starts to really annoy me when the people they're already in a relationship with just seem to disappear. I can understand the Aerith/Cloud/Tifa thing, because there's still a lot of debate there. But Vincent is quite clearly still in love with Lucrecia (Even if you hate her guts, that's just the way it is. Especially if the fic takes place during or before DoC, seeing as the later parts of DoC are really the only points in FFVII where the extent of his feelings for her are actually debatable), and Cid/Shera is probably among the only actual official pairings. I'm not saying that writers have to abide by canon (If they did, most fics probably wouldn't exist), but just tossing the characters that they're in love with out with no explanation doesn't really make much sense to me. Especially if they're as smitten with someone as characters like Anakin Skywalker are, for example.

That part about the background is usually true. But again, that doesn't apply to all OCs/Sues/Stus. Many of the ones I've come across in this fandom and others tend to drop hints throughout the fic of what happened in their past, only revealing the truth when another character pressures them into it or whenever it seems appropriate. Again, this works for canon characters too; look at the Inside Cloud's Head sequence in Mideel, the cinematic about Zack's fate hidden in the basement of Shinra Manor, and several of the movies in DOC, like Vincent's ruminating on Lucrecia and Hojo while he's in the elevator during the 'Manor of Despair' chapter. And I agree with the thing about things being so neatly forgiven and forgotten; it happens all too often. But I think it's more of a mark of inexperience rather than Sue/Studom. In the eagerness to get a reasonably good (or bad) idea down, a lot of authors tend to forget that it takes time to forgive and forget things like the murder of a canon character's relative or friend, or some other horrible deed the OC had to live through or even accomplish themselves. It can take days, weeks, months, even years to forgive something like that, even in the self-loathing/angsting/guilt complexes some characters seem to have (see Exhibit A: Cloud Strife). All it means when this quick-fix shows up is that the author is inexperienced or, possibly, writing a parody. Maybe he/she doesn't want to take the time to flesh things out and do it right.

It depends on the character, whether they work with an OC or not, and how the characters are written. I can't see Cloud with anybody other than Tifa canonically (possibly Aerith, but I really don't think so), whereas Tifa could work with almost any of the canon guys. Vincent seems to respond decently to OCs, as does Kadaj and occasionally Sephiroth. Aerith does not. Zack does. Reno and Rude do. Tseng and Elena, not so much. I've never seen a Barret/OC or Cid/OC fic, so I can't say anything about them in that regard. Same goes for Yuffie. Rufus works ok with a certain type of OC but not Mary Sues/Gary Stus, Yazoo and Loz really only work with canon characters, and I can't say anything really about the Tsviets, mainly because they were more concerned with murder than romance (unless you count the Weiss/Nero pairing, and that doesn't really count as 'romance'). I can't see Shelke in any sort of romantic or physical relationship; she doesn't have the emotions for it and she's (as far as we know) permanently stuck at age 10 physically. Shelke doesn't really count as an OC anyway, since she's in a game and has thus been accepted into the canon timeline.

"the only problem comes with the actual development of said OC, and it's something that most authors just aren't willing to invest their time into. After all, they wouldn't get anything out of doing so, so why bother, right?"

I disagree. The OC authors I know, and myself, all spend a lot of time thinking up our OCs before we put them into our fics. We try to make them at least as believable as any other canon character/anime character, and out of Sueishness. Characters that have that much thought behind them tend to develop on their own, and grow and change just like a canon character would. I know that doesn't go for all fic-authors, but that's the ones I associate with. As for the 'not getting anything out of it' part, that's wrong. We get the experience out of writing with established characters and adding our own characters into the mix, and can fine-tune our style and find out what works and what doesn't. We're not doing this for money, we're doing it because we like it and want to do it. Besides, any author would admit that it's cool opening your e-mail box and finding a ton of reviews for the latest update. We get the same satisfaction any paid author gets because people are reading and enjoying our fics, actually LIKING the characters we created. Maybe that sounds silly, but it's true. We don't get paid, but we do have fun.

I know, I know, which is why I said it's not a definite sign of a Sue. The main thing with canon characters with names like that is that those names serve a purpose. "Cloud Strife" indicates... well, just that. "Sephiroth" is more cryptic, but because of its analogy to "sephira" - and by extension to angels, etc. - it's symbolic of him. As far as the rest of the Compilation goes, I think Square made too little of an effort to conceal the symbolism behind people's names. Angeal? Genesis? Gee... I liked the idea behind the Tsviets (right?), the whole color-coding, but I more or less hated the Tsviets themselves. (To me, the Compilation just got progressively worse and worse. I don't even like talking about it any more. Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo, in particular. Their names don't mean anything, they don't serve any real purpose, and they do nothing for FFVII at all. They freaking die after an hour and a half. You could've left them nameless and they would've served their purpose.)

And I agree with the thing about things being so neatly forgiven and forgotten; it happens all too often. But I think it's more of a mark of inexperience rather than Sue/Studom. In the eagerness to get a reasonably good (or bad) idea down, a lot of authors tend to forget that it takes time to forgive and forget things like the murder of a canon character's relative or friend, or some other horrible deed the OC had to live through or even accomplish themselves.

Agreed, to an extent. The only major problem I have with this is that most people who are inexperienced like this garner praise from others just like them, so they don't really have any impetus for improvement. Then, when they do gain some experience, they're less prone to properly address this issue, even if they learn how to control grammar and writing technique and making a new paragraph for every new quotation, etc.

It depends on the character, whether they work with an OC or not, and how the characters are written. I can't see Cloud with anybody other than Tifa canonically (possibly Aerith, but I really don't think so), whereas Tifa could work with almost any of the canon guys. Vincent seems to respond decently to OCs, as does Kadaj and occasionally Sephiroth. Aerith does not. Zack does. Reno and Rude do. Tseng and Elena, not so much. I've never seen a Barret/OC or Cid/OC fic, so I can't say anything about them in that regard. Same goes for Yuffie. Rufus works ok with a certain type of OC but not Mary Sues/Gary Stus, Yazoo and Loz really only work with canon characters, and I can't say anything really about the Tsviets, mainly because they were more concerned with murder than romance (unless you count the Weiss/Nero pairing, and that doesn't really count as 'romance'). I can't see Shelke in any sort of romantic or physical relationship; she doesn't have the emotions for it and she's (as far as we know) permanently stuck at age 10 physically. Shelke doesn't really count as an OC anyway, since she's in a game and has thus been accepted into the canon timeline.

What I don't understand is the pairing of any of the antagonists of the Compilation (with maybe the exception of Genesis and Angeal, though I don't know a lick about them) with anybody else, as they have absolutely no characterization whatsoever. They more or less follow the various archetypes for villains, and we don't learn much about them beyond that. That's part of the reason why I consider Shelke an OC - although she ends up being one of the good guys, she does it in a manner that's very... cliche. Uninteresting. Dull. What have you.

I disagree. The OC authors I know, and myself, all spend a lot of time thinking up our OCs before we put them into our fics. We try to make them at least as believable as any other canon character/anime character, and out of Sueishness. Characters that have that much thought behind them tend to develop on their own, and grow and change just like a canon character would. I know that doesn't go for all fic-authors, but that's the ones I associate with.

Which is why I said "most." And by "most" I mean most of the authors on this site, who do have the problem of underdeveloping their characters. Most of us that are on these forums seem to have at least a moderate grasp on writing maturity, which is why you might think that my comment was about you. But don't worry, it's not. I was talking about the most general group of people here who have yet to develop their character development.

Agreed. I didn't really think it was that big of a deal (I've always found the symbolism in the names interesting, but hardly a deciding factor in anything), but they didn't do much in terms of hiding what they meant. There was a bit more on CC though, though you'd have to play some of it to see it. For example, Hewley (Angeal's last name) is apparently derived from the Greek word hyle which is translated as materia in Latin. Rhapsodos (Genesis' last name) probably means "Rhapsodist" or someone who performs an epic poem. Combined with his first name (Genesis), this could essentially mean that he's the "original performer of an epic poem", which might refer to the Loveless play/poem he's so fond of. It could also be a reference to the song "One-Winged Angel", seeing as he's the one-winged predecessor to Sephiroth. Admittedly, Wikipedia pointed that out, but it makes sense. Then there's some symbolism with Weiss and Nero, though it's pretty obvious (Two brothers, one with the name "White/Imacculate", the other with the name "Black/Sable"). Another small bit of symbolism in regards to Genesis' name could be the fact that his experiment was involved in the creation of the Tsviets, who are referred to as his hellspawn. Then there's Cloud Strife's friend, Zack Fair (Which is supposed to be in reference to "fair weather").

Also, in regards to Kadaj, it's possible that his name is derived from the term "Kaddish", a prayer in in a Jewish prayer service that sanctifies God's name. This fits with the Sephiroth/Jenova themes, with Sephiroth being the term for the ten attributes that God can manifest in physically (IIRC on Kadaj and Seph. I'm not Jewish, so I might be wrong here), and "Jenova" being highly similar to "Jehova".

Anyway, yeah, there is still some symbolism. But like you said, they're making it pretty obvious just what it is that most of the names symbolize.

But enough of that. It's firing up my distaste for the Compilation.

Anyway, I'm one of the people who actually likes most of the Compilation. Still, I'm not about to argue that it's flawless or something, because it's very far from being perfect. For example, after seeing the DoC Online story segments revolving around the Tsviets, it annoys me that they just wasted them in a single game that quickly. Rosso, Nero, Azul, and Shelke had some decent potential as villains, but all got offed too quickly for anything to really develop. Argento still has the potential, seeing as she hasn't been killed, as far as we can tell. But what gets me with the Tsviets is Weiss. He actually had some serious potential as a major villain in FFVII. And then...Well, if there was ever a plot twist that I could see coming a mile away, the one in DoC was it. And it basically took all the "potential badass" out of Weiss (Though he does redeem himself in the online segments, especially in his handicapped fight with Rosso and Azul).

Reading this...I can see that you guys seem to not like OCs pairing with the canon characters. I've read some decent stories in where the OC isn't a Mary Sue or a Gary Stu and that they blended in with the story. I mean...what's wrong with creating a character that pairs up with another character? This is the whole idea of FF.net....to unlease your imagination. I would have to agree with dantesdarkqueen. An OC and a Mary Sue/Gary Stu are completely different.

An OC is as original character. A Mary Sue/Gary Stu are just the paths for the original character to take. Not necessarily all OC's are Mary Sues/Gary stus. Just because they end up with a canon character doesn't make them an ultra sue. If you can take a good look at their background and their personality and all those things, you can tell the difference between a Sue and just a regular character.

A Mary sue is just an OC is too perfect in many ways (Awkward colored hair/eyes, powerful than everyone/etc.). An OC can be like a quiet bartender who just happened to meet the canon character, took time to develop their relationship (and when I mean time...I mean as in more than just a couple of hours or days after meeting), and happened to fall in love with that person later on. What's wrong with an OC falling in love with the canon character? I've read a lot of FF7 stories in where the author's character was flamed for being a Mary Sue just because she ended up with Cloud. I read a certain story like that, and I realized that the OC was a perfectly normal girl. She didn't appear from another world, she wasn't in SOLDIER, she wasn't related to any of the characters..... she was just a normal OC with a believable past and personality. I mean...isn't that the purpose of the creation of FF.net? So we can write GOOD READABLE stories without having the expense of being flamed as a Mary Sue/Gary Stu creator cause we thought that our OC can be compatible with a canon character?

I have to agree about there being too much Sue and Stu's out there on the FF7 category. Majority of the OC's are either long lost brothers/sisters of the canon characters OR they are part of the SOLDIER unit. Some are believeable OC's, like an innocent bystander, or a friend from their childhood days. No one wants to read a story about a super powerful girl who instantly gains the rank of a 1st class SOLDIER within hours of them beginning and falling in love with Cloud because she thought he was hot and sexy and wanted to spend the rest of her life with him, bearing his children. I would love to read a story about someone who likes the canon character, not because they are cute or powerful, but because they are themselves and they seem compatible with them. I read somewhere that Cloud has trouble making friends (since he was always alone in his childhood), so a girl who can basically try her best to become his friend can be suited for the job.

I think you guys should make a forum on ways to make OCs compatible with the canon characters. That way...it can help upcoming writers or aspiring writers see what they need to do in order to make their character believable.

I think you guys should make a forum on ways to make OCs compatible with the canon characters. That way...it can help upcoming writers or aspiring writers see what they need to do in order to make their character believable.

Bah, we prefer to bitch and moan until we get tired. It's very therapeutic.

That said, OCs are fine. I've got a fair share of them myself. The problem does come when the character is a Sue, though. Too often, they are. I've always been a proponent of the "if it's good, it's good" rule or whatever, but it's very hard to keep yourself cheerio and honky-dory about OCs when so much of them suck donkey nutzzzz.

So I wouldn't say it's so much a problem with OCs as it is a problem with Sues. Which everyone with half a brain has. This thread just happens to deal with them in relationships, that's all.

Off-topic: You're sexy. Can I boink you?

...aaawkward...

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