I've noticed that a lot of female OCs can be called Mary Sues, even if wonderfully written, IMHO. I can understand calling "Sue" if the OC replaces a CC love interest, but what if there was no love interest to begin with? Can an OC fall in love with a CC without being called a Sue? Is it even possible to write a female OC without getting called a Sue by at least one person? Discuss.

Yes. If you make her a realistic, secondary character that doesn't interfere with canon relationships, she CAN be a not-Sue, in my opinion. Just don't go overboard.

Seconded.

Prejudice against OCs is very common. After all, it's the horrible Mary-Sue OCs who get noticed, so people tend to be much harsher on OCs than canon characters. Just because someone points their finger and shouts "Sue!" doesn't mean the character is a Sue.

And yes, realistic OC x CC romances can be done. It's just freakin' hard.

By the way, are you asking for advice, or just asking opinions on the subject? I'm all ready to offer an entire essay on my take on successful OC x CC relationships, but I have no idea whether you even want it.

It's funny that you should bring up the topic of Mary-Sues, since I've been dealing with the issue for a while now. I have been reading some articles here and there, and I've reached a general conclusion:

There is not an OC out there that will not be considered a Mary-Sue to someone, somewhere. There are types and subtypes of Mary-Sues, and after reading about them, there s no way an original character will not fit there somehow or another. It's sad really, because to me, it seems like a good character will never escape silly scrutiny.

But I suppose that's the risk of writing.

Now, to be fair, this article also mentions that a character is not defined as a Mary-Sue based on traits and things like relationships, but rather, it's about how the character affects the story and the canon characters that appear in the story. Now, I know there's a terribly thin line in this definition because I know many fan fictions out there with well-written OC's who are the focus of the story (mine included), where it's unfair to say the character is a Sue based on story focus. I think people need to consider the plot and the context of the story before deciding the characte is a Sue because she has too much importance or sway in a story.

I agree with Riku of Darkness. There will probably be at least someone out there who will think your OC will be a Sue, although the same can be said in the opposite manner.

I guess the main reason is that we are playing between an OC and a CC, so there is bound to be some conflicting ideas on who it will be written.

A Mary-Sue is typically a character that completely overshadows Canon Characters and/or makes the said CC go Out of Character.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with Female OC's, as long as they don't make the CC go too OOC. Since in Fan-fiction, the CC are bound to be a bit different a bit here and there...

Can an OC fall in love with a CC without being called a Sue?

I don't see any problem, as long as the CC stay In Character and that there wasn't a Canon relationship in the first place.

Yeah... I believe that whatever happens in your story, if the canon characters are written properly and IC, your character isn't a 'Sue. Just because a character's female and beautiful, it does not make them perfect, and if you can write them behaving and the other characters responding in a way that makes this clear that makes this clear while making the female OC well-rounded, good for you and why shouldn't you write about them.Most Victorian romance was centred around tragic women with a flock of admirers, and they didn't call Mary-Sue.

At the same time, you're writing within canon, and if you can't get your OCs, female or otherwise, into the story without making a mockery of that canon, it's my opinion that you should leave them out

Dormouseguy,

I think you've nailed tension down. Most stories will have the CC's acting differently, to some extent, since they are dealing with a new character. Admittedly, the writer should try and keep the original personality of the CC no matter what, but certain situations, like canonxOC relationships, will cause changes (and they are not necessarily bad ones).

The other issue is an over-arching struggle in fan fiction regardless -- who determines what the "original personality" of the CC's are? Sure, we all draw assumptions, but who is to say there is one right interpretation of the Canon Characters and how they react in situations not in the canon already? I've taken enough Literature courses to know that the truth is masked in infinite perceptions. And I see it all the time.

It's happened to myself and a friend of mine recently. I like Riku; she likes Sora (both from Kingdom Hearts). We each had a set (and not necessarily accurate or good) perception of the other character, until we met each other and deviantArt and started talking. We have both admitted that our perceptions of the other character has been turned around because of our discussions and stories.

We need to consider that authors may perceive certain CC's differently than us, and so, any small changes in behaviour may have nothing to do with an OC at all. Therefore, it is really counter-productive to harrass an author about his/her OC without considering other possibilities first.

I've noticed that a lot of female OCs can be called Mary Sues, even if wonderfully written, IMHO. I can understand calling "Sue" if the OC replaces a CC love interest, but what if there was no love interest to begin with? Can an OC fall in love with a CC without being called a Sue?

IMO, yes. I mean, most of the time, authors write their female OC falling in love with the male CC because that's what they'd like to do themself. So there's at least one real person who could fall in love with them. And a believable, real character is not a Sue.

Now whether the CC would return their love... that's a whole other question.

Is it even possible to write a female OC without getting called a Sue by at least one person? Discuss.

Almost certainly not. There's a vast number of people who have simply missed the point of the litmus tests, and will call your OC a Sue if she fulfils any of the criteria. But having purple hair and falling for the canon character doesn't make your character a Sue. Having purple hair in a world where everyone else has normal coloured hair and hair dye does not exist, and the canon character dropping everything he's ever cared about to swoon over your OC the moment she walks through the door, are what make your character a Sue.

I have two female OCs who've taken large roles in my stories. Nobody's called either of them a Sue yet - but they are in a tiny fandom, only about ten people have commented on them at all. (Though my male OC has been called out by a couple of people, probably because I do the absolutely classic Mary Sue plotline with him - he replaces a canon on the team.)

Sue's to me, are characters that are too "out there" - they have incredible, tragic pasts but have somehow been able to overcome them because of their superior and incredibly kind/cool personality. They're like a virus to canon, entering slowly and then taking over through drama they cause.

For once, just once, I'd like to see a "normal" OC, a.k.a someone just like you and me who's not really amazing at anything and has led a regular life so far. She doesn't have extreme problems that the CC has to help her overcome, but has real, internal personality flaws. Sue authors don't seem to understand that a character doesn't have to be an orphan to have flaws. Really, what's wrong with having a regular person as an OC? Do authors fear that their OC won't be liked unless she's "interesting"?

Anyway, for me the perfect non-Sue OC would be a normal someone who enters the CC's lives barely noticed and causes minimal drama. If there is drama, focus is on the CC's and how they are dealing with it. But really, I frown on using OC's at all unless absolutely needed in a story about the CC's.

Sue's to me, are characters that are too "out there" - they have incredible, tragic pasts but have somehow been able to overcome them because of their superior and incredibly kind/cool personality. They're like a virus to canon, entering slowly and then taking over through drama they cause.

I agreed with you so far...

For once, just once, I'd like to see a "normal" OC, a.k.a someone just like you and me who's not really amazing at anything and has led a regular life so far. She doesn't have extreme problems that the CC has to help her overcome, but has real, internal personality flaws. Sue authors don't seem to understand that a character doesn't have to be an orphan to have flaws. Really, what's wrong with having a regular person as an OC? Do authors fear that their OC won't be liked unless she's "interesting"?

Well, say that you wrote an AVATAR: THE LAST AIRBENDER Fan-Fiction. If the OC is not at least special at something, like being a powerful refugee firebender, a powerful water-bender, a blind earth-bender, a smart and cunning guy who relies more on strength and science rather than bending, or an avatar, then writers would be hard-pressed to write them to meet up with the Canon Characters properly and be of importance. And it'd be pointless for an OC to have a spotlight if he/she won't be of importance.

Anyway, for me the perfect non-Sue OC would be a normal someone who enters the CC's lives barely noticed and causes minimal drama.

Okay, I agree with you on this too.

If there is drama, focus is on the CC's and how they are dealing with it.

Well, that wouldn't be that good for writers who want to improve on character creation and development. I agree that more focus should be on the CC, but it would be nice to see a bit more originality from writers, right?

-

Re: Dormouseguy

Okay, I guess I went overboard a little. But I can't help it if I'm a little biased - I usually stick to fics that don't have an OC as a main storyline. I guess OC's do need to have a reason for the CC's to notice them. I just wish they weren't so extreme all the time.

I dislike fics that have OC as the main story-line too.

But I think fics with OC's that are secondary characters, and the story-line being not centered on any character at all, merit some praise.

I guess OC's do need to have a reason for the CC's to notice them. I just wish they weren't so extreme all the time.

Well, not OC's are extreme, those who are are the Mary-Sues/Gary-Stus.

Hey there, writerchic

It's okay to be a little biased, considering there are so many OC-central stories out there that don't fare well on the Mary-Sue scale.

However, I actually like reading stories where the OC is of certain importance, and don't mind if they are the focus (provided they aren't actually like a god/dess of the story, you know?). When the story is well-written, I get very drawn into how the OC fits into the canon, despite being of someone else's design. The real challenge is finding those stories though.

^^; Truth is, my bias comes from actually being a writer with an OC of importance in the storyline. Now, she's not more important than the canon characters, but she is a focus in the story, which is a solid, unchangeable element that I like to play with. To each their own, right?

Well, say that you wrote an AVATAR: THE LAST AIRBENDER Fan-Fiction. If the OC is not at least special at something, like being a powerful refugee firebender, a powerful water-bender, a blind earth-bender, a smart and cunning guy who relies more on strength and science rather than bending, or an avatar, then writers would be hard-pressed to write them to meet up with the Canon Characters properly and be of importance. And it'd be pointless for an OC to have a spotlight if he/she won't be of importance.

Okay, I don't know this fandom at all. But don't the canons interact with anyone who doesn't have superpowers? Who cooks their meals? Maintains their cars? Teaches them to speak Spanish? Lives next door to them? Feeds their cat when they are out saving the world?

An OC does not have to interact with the canons doing the things that they are uniquely skilled at. And they certainly don't have to be of importance to the major story arc that is canon in order to be of importance to the plot of your fanfic.

I'm not saying I'm an expert, but as an example, I have a female OC. She's a junior mechanic on the racing team that one of the canons is on. She knows he works for the good guys (but not how important he is, secret identities and all that). She's important to the plot because she gets headhunted by the bad guys, tells him, and the good guys use her to find the bad guys' latest secret base.

She's special at nothing at all, all she does is carry a locator so they can trace her. When the fighting starts she hides under the table. She never finds out who her canon friend really is.

Hm, sounds good, cathrl. I have quite a lot of OCs in my Naruto fic, and two of them are the main character's sister and mother. In case you don't know Naruto fandom, the protagonists are prepubescent ninjas and their teachers, and that means the character's sister and mother were involved mostly in the background for the majority of the story. That start meant that sometime in the middle of my story when the main character had to have serious drama-laden conversations with his OC family, people cared at least a bit about it, and when his sister got kidnapped by bad guys, there was actually some concern in reviews about whether she'd be okay when she got rescued. It takes time to write characters in to a story, but it does add something, especially when they let you show a new side to your canon central characters.

An OC does not have to interact with the canons doing the things that they are uniquely skilled at. And they certainly don't have to be of importance to the major story arc that is canon in order to be of importance to the plot of your fanfic.

That's very good advice. Well said. Importance is what you make of it.

(And now I'm done being self-important . See ya!)

I have a female OC. She's a junior mechanic on the racing team that one of the canons is on. She knows he works for the good guys (but not how important he is, secret identities and all that). She's important to the plot because she gets headhunted by the bad guys, tells him, and the good guys use her to find the bad guys' latest secret base.

She's special at nothing at all, all she does is carry a locator so they can trace her. When the fighting starts she hides under the table. She never finds out who her canon friend really is.

Ideally, your OC is quite balanced. But she is special on something. She was being head-hunted by the bad guys. Meaning she was special enough to catch the bad guys attention.

-

Secondly

Remember that I said:

If the OC is not at least special at something writers would be hard-pressed to write them to meet up with the Canon Characters properly and be of importance. And it'd be pointless for an OC to have a spotlight if he/she won't be of importance.

HARD-PRESSED, I'm not saying it's impossible, just hard to write. Yes, canons characters do interact with normal people too, but notice how they tend to be forgotten easily if they don't have one special quality.They don't have to be skilled at something (or everything, for Sues), it can be a birthmark, something special enough to let them stand out. As long as the character is a bit unique, we can remember them.

Like most people have said, there is a 99 percent chance that at least one person will take one look at your OC x CC fic and shout "SUE!!!" However, if most readers enjoy your fic, and if everyone stays in-character, you shouldn't worry about that one person.

I think that OC x CC relationships are fine. Be careful, though, of keeping a relationship IC. A relationship or those in it changing is realistic, but only to a certain degree. Remember, change can happen suddenly, but it mostly happens gradually.

Also, in my opinion, writers just need to write the story that they were planning on writing. If YOU are happy with your story but a couple of your reviewers shout accuse your OC of being a Sue, don't worry about it. Even if ALL your reviews say "Sue", sometimes you just need to write the story that you want.

At the same time, I'm not encouraging terrible writers to write more OC crap to put on FF.net because I have read the worst OC stories. But I've also read a wonderful OC story in which the female OC replaces a CC (Seeing the Truth by Lady Okori, Naruto fanfic).

I'm saying that sometimes writers get so wrapped up with what their readers think they write the story that they think the readers will like. The story is then not what you originally wanted, right?

Take me, for example. I am going to write a female OC fic for the Naruto fandom. I had my character, Hakura, an orphan. But then I started worring about what others would think of her replacing Shino. Then I started taking a million 'Is your character a Mary-Sue?' tests. By the time I was done, Hakura was completely different from what I originally meant her to be.

I finally looked in the mirror and laughed at myself. I decided to write Hakura how I wanted her to be, and if I got good reviews, that was a bonus.

So my advice is don't care that much about what other people think.

By the way, are you asking for advice, or just asking opinions on the subject?

Opinions. I was just curious, so feel free to post that essay.

It is most definitely possible to make an OC who is not a Mary Sue. OCs get a bad rap simply because so many poorly-written Mary Sues have taken over so many fanfics - My Immortal, anyone?! - and get a lot of attention because they're so crappy. If what I'm saying makes sense. Basically, OC equates to really craptastic Mary Sue in many people's minds because of the prevalence of terrible romance stories.

But there are some amazingly written OC characters out there, and most of the time competent reviewers know the difference. I do my best to avoid Mary-Sue characters in my writing, since a lot of my writings have OCs present, but I know I'm one of few on FFnet outside of this forum who cares.

Yes. If you make her a realistic, secondary character that doesn't interfere with canon relationships, she CAN be a not-Sue, in my opinion.

LMAO!!

Oh, man... ahem, sorry. No offense, but I disagree.

One, this is fan-fiction and technically anyone can write what they wish, hence the fan in fan fiction. Canon relationships with OC's can work if author gives plausible reasons for why the canon character isn't with their sweetie. That, coupled with a mature writer who knows how to make OC's interesting w/o going overboard in focusing on appearance and what makes their OC so wonderful.

An OC should be in the story for a reason, not just "there." For an OC to be the main character (as I have in one of my stories) you have to really work hard to make the plot and that person interesting as well as keep them interacting with the canon cast realistically. It can be done, and I think this bears mentioning: your canon cast are all OC's to their creator. Every character you write is technically an OC. There are horrible canon sues, horrible interpretation of canon characters, that in my opinion, are worse than any Sue brought to life.

M

P.S. My Immortal is a troll fic, nothing more. I wish people would figure that out and not feed the fic with reviews.

To Satine89,

It's funny that you should mention the idea of OC's getting a bad rap because of the M-S infestation in fan fiction. I'm currently writing a project related to this very idea and hope to bring out some differences between well-written OC's and Mary-Sues, so that there is a slight visible distinction (for me, if no one else).

I think if we all work ** our characters and fully believe that we have written them the best we can, then we have done a good job.

So basically, all of us agree that OC x CC pairings are fine and well written ones aren't as bad as people think it is, as long as it makes sense (logically speaking)

So basically, all of us agree that OC x CC pairings are fine and well written ones aren't as bad as people think it is, as long as it makes sense (logically speaking)

As long as the CC isn't taken, and the CC's don't go OOC too much, yes, they are quite fine for me.

As long as the CC isn't taken...

So what if they are? A good writer can work around any canon pairing and give a good reason why so and so isn't with their woman/guy. Show me the official rule that an OC cannot be with a CC, please. I would like to see it.

Don't worry, I'll wait.

It's not official, it's just that most people don't like it.

Personally, I'm not such a big fan of those types of pairings. In my opinion, the original writer paired those characters up for a reason (assuming that the writer him/her-self is a capable and competent writer who has experience in romance and pairings). It is because it works. The characters both make up for something that each lacks, they tap into the public's heart, because it seems more realistic than an OC, just coming out in the span of the fan-fiction, instantly becoming boy/girl-friends with the CC, who dumps his/her original partner in favor of this better version.

Also, most OC and CC pairings are quite one-sided, the OC mostly being the "victor".

There is no rule which says a Canon Character cannot be with an OC. It's just that for many writers on FF.net who are young and naive (I'm amongst this bunch), it's hard to create a character who is realistic and interesting because we don't have enough experiences with people and such intimate relationships.

As long as the OC is not more special than anyone else (i.e. s/he has magical powers in a non-magical world) and readers can actually see the character as a person, then it's fine.

Dormouseguy: Still, if it is well written I don't mind. It's just like crack pairings: you just need heck of a lot of imagination, stay within the set 'boundaries', and take everything with a pinch (or a fistful) of salt.

Even some canon pairings aren't accepted by some fans, because this is their preference, so I guess there is a higher bias towards OC and CC pairings, maybe because readers take it as you pairing yourself with a CC.

LMAO!!

Oh, man... ahem, sorry. No offense, but I disagree.

One, this is fan-fiction and technically anyone can write what they wish, hence the fan in fan fiction. Canon relationships with OC's can work if author gives plausible reasons for why the canon character isn't with their sweetie. That, coupled with a mature writer who knows how to make OC's interesting w/o going overboard in focusing on appearance and what makes their OC so wonderful.

I suppose you have a point. However, I find it is terribly easy to fall into the Sue trap with a character who is in love with a CC, said CC already having someone in their life. I've had problems with characterization and Sues before, so what I said was driven by that fact.

Forgive the rambling, if there is any. I'm tired. XD

It's telling how much of this topic's discussing the perceived "rules" about OC x CC romance and all that. I think my opinion'd have to be that if you're still obsessing over that and not thinking about any of the other roles OCs could have in a fic, you probably aren't mature enough to write that non-canonical love interest well.

It's telling how much of this topic's discussing the perceived "rules" about OC x CC romance and all that. I think my opinion'd have to be that if you're still obsessing over that and not thinking about any of the other roles OCs could have in a fic, you probably aren't mature enough to write that non-canonical love interest well.

I'm actually writing a story with an OC right now that hinges on the fact that she was a CC's ex-boyfriend. The whole fic is basically these two trying to deal with each other as they go on with their lives. So I agree with you, Missed Nin - OCs can serve a myriad of purposes, and it takes a lot of effort to make them serve that purpose well.

And, once again, OCs very rarely serve a purpose other than "sleep with me, CC!", so... -_-;

As long as the OC is not more special than anyone else (i.e. s/he has magical powers in a non-magical world) and readers can actually see the character as a person, then it's fine.

Then it's fine? It's fine. Well, glad that's fine then, because what would we do if it wasn't? Hmm?

It's not official, it's just that most people don't like it.

Most people? I think it's a bit presumptious to assume most. Basically, there is no rule here and this is all preference. Therefore, authors can write how they please and pair who they please.

Then it's fine? It's fine. Well, glad that's fine then, because what would we do if it wasn't? Hmm?

If you're presuming that I'll go and tell them to jump off a cliff or curse them out, you are mistaken. Suicide and swearing are not things that I condone. I'm more for telling them in great detail why their character does not belong in a certain setting.

If an OC is a normal likeable character who fits into the canon world and feels like s/he belongs, then I'll read the story. There are some brilliant OCs out there; they're just hidden beneath all the two-dimensional teenage succubi and incubi.

Ah, Mary Sue/Gary Stu (Or Gary Sue, Larry Sue, etc, etc...Why does the guy version have so many names?). A classic. To be honest, I feel that you can definitely write an OC (Male or female) without it becoming a Sue/Stu. I think my first attempt (The Successor) was pretty crappy. But that's probably because I tried to start too big. Anyway, that aside, some of the advice I've got:

1) You might not want to start off too big, like I did. Do a couple of minor characters in a story/stories, just to get a feel for writing original characters. Y'know, nothing too major. I've got a couple that only appear a few times, a couple that will appear more often, but aside from the story I mentioned before, I don't have any that really take the spotlight for a large period of time. Basically, you might want to start off with something where the focus remains on the canon characters, and slowly build towards having a more prominent OC.

2) Avoid the common "Mary Sue" traits. For example, skills and abilities. It's one thing to have skills and abilities that one excels at. It's completely different to rapestomp any canon character at anything. I'll use Avatar: The Last Airbender as an example (Don't worry if you're not familiar with it. I'll just give some characters, and a couple of their skills).

- Ozai, Iroh, and Azula (Ozai/Iroh are brothers, Azula is Ozai's daughter) are firebenders, meaning that they can create/control fire as a weapon...Or whatever else they can use it for, but most of the time they're attacking things with it. Aside from the Avatar (The only person who can "bend" all four elements), they're undoubtedly the most badass firebenders out there. They've reached a point where they can even bend lightning, and are the only three who have been shown capable of creating lighting. Two other characters have been shown as capable of redirecting this lightning when attacked.

- Katara is a waterbender. She can use water, of course, but she can also freeze said water and use ice as a weapon, and during the full moon, she has a unique form of bending called "Bloodbending," in which she can...Well, bend a person's blood. She's one of maybe two people that actually know this technique.

- Toph is an earthbender. She bends the earth, can bend sand, and invented metal bending.

- Aang is the Avatar. He's an airbender. The only airbender left.

Now, as I said, it's one thing to have skills that one excels at. It's another to be a firebending, lightningbending, earthbending, sandbending, metalbending, waterbending, icebending, martial arts master who can bend blood without the full moon, bend all of the other elements better than the masters of those elements, and who happens to be the one other airbender still around. Know what I mean?

Of course, there's more to it, but I just wanted to provide a major example. Most of the others here have already given out better advice.

^ That's...seriously overkill...XD

^ That's...seriously overkill...XD

I find I have a problem with angsty Sues. I had this really overboard character that was like "IpwntyouALL" who saw her father murder her mother, ran away to escape marriage, angsted all the time, wanted revenge, was cold as ice, was uber-depressed, and got close to a canon character.

^Overkill v.2.0. XD Thank God I discovered Sue litmus tests.

Litmus tests are only a guideline - not something you should base your character on. There is more to a character than a list of traits, and there is always the writing to consider. A good writer can take a sue or stu and make them a legit OC.

If an OC is a normal likeable character who fits into the canon world and feels like s/he belongs, then I'll read the story. There are some brilliant OCs out there; they're just hidden beneath all the two-dimensional teenage succubi and incubi.

Which is why we let them get it out of their system.

Which is why we let them get it out of their system.

Personally, I'd find it interesting if somehow the CCs were responsible for an OCxOC relationship. I have yet to see that in all the fanfics I've read.

Why don't you write one then? :)

That's how I began writing again, I got sick of all the fics not doing what I wanted so I made one myself. Then it ran away with me...

Why don't you write one then? :)

That's how I began writing again, I got sick of all the fics not doing what I wanted so I made one myself. Then it ran away with me...

Actually, that'd be a pretty good option for my NaNoWriMo this year. It'll be a drabble-a-day fic, but it could still work like that, right?

Personally, I'd find it interesting if somehow the CCs were responsible for an OCxOC relationship. I have yet to see that in all the fanfics I've read.

Thank you, Lefae, there is now a plot elephant sitting on my head. Aaaargh!

Thank you, Lefae, there is now a plot elephant sitting on my head. Aaaargh!

Ohsnapski. ._. Uhm...uh...you're welcome? ^^;

Which is why we let them get it out of their system.

Is it not possible to get it out on paper instead of putting it on the internet? I don't know about your fandoms, Maia, but in anything that is related to a movie in which there are 'hot guys', over half the stories are Sues, and most of those write about two thousand words before they decide that they're bored with the story and then just leave them there and/or start another one. That's what I used to do when I was a Suethor, except I got around to typing them out.

I think what's most important for creating a good OC is some distance between the author and the character. If the author does not view the character as himself/herself, then s/he won't be so inclined to make the character unrealistically powerful or angsty.

You can write a story where the main character with a female OC that pairs up with the Hero complete with insanely detailed sex scene and she would not be a Mary Sue unless the story was badly written.

Yes.

I have a few female OC's in my fics that are not Mary Sues.

Michael

I think it´s so much up to the reader if a character is a Sue or not that you can´t say for sure.

For example: I have a character (elvish female by the way) 3000 years old and a servant. She has ( during her leisure) learned how to use a bow and goes hunting in the forest (but not vor animals but for bad mean spiders and orcs). Doing so she mad friendship with a stag ( and with children of said stag as again she is 3000 years old). Now at the same time there is a legend saying that there is someone in the forest that is somewhat being protected by the forest because the forest likes her, some kind of magic or myth.

As we have learned by reading Tolkien obviously trees can get angry if they don´t like someone so I came up with the idea hey why don´t the just be nice to someone whos helping them ged rid of big mean orcs?

Remeber the Sue in question is just a servant that hunts spiders in the wood during the time she is not needed because she loves the forest. But people who see her think she is that legend for they don´t recognise her, but again as we have seen the legend is fake it´s just other elves that go and hunt spiders.

So to sum it up we have people thinking of her ( if they see her on the hunt) as some kind of magic in the forest, but they don´t know that this is the same as the little servant (how should they if she covers her face), and we have a servant that has in 3000 years in the world learned to use a weapon and goes hunting.

Sue? Not Sue?

I don´t think she´s a Sue for she had plenty of time to learn all that and she is not overly good for after a few thousand years one should be able to hit an orc with an arrow. The only thing that MIGHT be worth a Sue is her friendship with the stag or the trees being nice to her ( but I explained that fact above), that´s enough to make her a Sue? Everyone should decide for themselves.

So conclusion is: If a character is a Sue depends highly on the reader! And it depends not on what the character´s abilities are but more if it is believable that he/she could have learned it, because if it is then Canon-chars will most likely not appear weak compared to the maybe-Sue.

Yes and no. I've never seen, in years of reading and writing fanfiction, a main female OC who has not, at some point, come across as Sue-ish. Honestly, the worst ones are when they start off just great, no problems, no Sueisms, and then the author messes up five or six chapters in, and, essentially, ruins the story.

However, I have seen minor OCs, male and female, who weren't Sues. When I say minor, I mean that the focus is off the character, no matter how much they are central to the plot or relationships. Those are far less annoying, and can actually lend something good to a fic. I experimented once myself with this type of character in a oneshot, and it seemed to work quite well.

As for love, I'm not sure it would be possible to pull it off without criticism - tends to irritate the readership no end, particularly as a lot of readers have a 'pairing' they like in whatever the fandom is.

I would imagine it depends on the situation and fandom, but OC does not necessarily mean Mary Sue or Gary Stu.

1. Relationships ~ Everyone makes friends with new people they are surrounded by. Just because an OC gets along with many characters, it doesn't really mean harem!fic. It just means that, like most of us, that OC doesn't antagonize everyone on the street. Besides, how many boy/girlfriends did you have before finally finding your one true love? Consider that, compared to the time era. Back in the days of arranged marriage, you'd better hope you love your betrothed. Nowadays, with the free option of dating, you may find yourself dating and having affections for several people.

2. Romance ~ Many Suethors forget that just because an OC is wealthy, powerful, and beautiful, it doesn't mean she is the most attractive girl to a man. Men appreciate beauty, but sometimes chemistry isn't there. Or maybe the personality isn't exciting enough... (granted, I hate the stereotype that all beautiful girls are bland wallflowers). People also forget that just because the OC falls in love with a CC, it doesn't necessarily mean the CC returns the love.

3. Normalcy ~ Some people strive for the extreme opposite: Ugly, acne-covered, short, morbidly obese, poorhouse, no talents whatsoever... Does that describe most people? Just because the OC ceases to be "perfect", it doesn't make the OC relatable.

4. Perfection ~ Some people really do lead perfect lives. Celebutante Kim Kardasian springs to mind, with the exception of her height. I have a very minor OC that is such a perfect celebutante and her role is to be a ** to my 2 major OC's, but that role is small, so being rich and beautiful doesn't ruin the story.

My weakness is that in the first chapter, when you are introducing characters, my characters come off as Sue and Stu. I mean, the first chapter of my Naruto fic centers around a girl realizing she is no longer alone, so it is very much OC-centric... too much for my liking, but I had no better place to cut off the chapter. With my first chapter of a HP fic, I found that EVERY character seemed Mary Sue / Gary Stu even though it would be an angsty fic that delved into social issues.

Here's an easy litmus test I can recommend to find out if your character is a Mary Sue or Gary Stu:

http://www.katfeete.net/writing/marysue.php

I took this test before, and thankfully, my fanfic character isn't a Mary Sue. As long as you write an OC without burdening him/her with overidealized characterization and putting that OC in your story for the purpose of wish-fulfillment, then that isn't Mary Sue-ish or Gary Stu-ish.

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