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Pyrefly07
Topic: Canon/OC Relationships?

I checked the topics and couldn't find anything on this so I thought I'd ask. How do you all feel about canon and original character relationships? Where do you draw the line when it comes to how canon and OC's interact with each other? Or do you just not like that sort of interaction at all? Although most of this is based off of romantic pairings, I also consider friendships when I think of canon/OC interaction.

Do you think that OC/and Canon relationships have to be logical and not warp the canon if its romantic OR if its just friendship? Do you think there's a difference, if in both cases the canon can be warped to have the relationship 'make sense'? If you don't think the same rules apply; Why is it okay to have one OC be friends with a canon, but if that same OC was romantic with them, its often viewed as a problem?

I'm just very curious about how you all feel with this; and maybe get some advice on having canon interact with OC in a believable fashion.

#1 Apr 02nd, 1:45am
SaoirseWaveglow

Well, it really depends on how well the OC is written, and the canon character they're being paired with. Also, the nature of the relationship between the OC and the CC.

Interaction with OCs is absolutely fine - for some good examples, look at the Fireplace Challenge #2: OCs Challenge fics.

Personally, I find that OC/CC friendships work the best, though a good writer can pull off an OC/CC romance.

But again - it all depends on the OC.

Why is it okay to have one OC be friends with a canon, but if that same OC was romantic with them, its often viewed as a problem?

Well, mostly it's viewed badly because many (not all, but many) OCs who are romantically paired with CCs are self-inserts. Also, the availability of the character in canon can also be an issue. Robin/OC pairings I hate, just because he's already with someone in canon.

There are many different things that can sour an OC in a story, and I'm not the best perspective to take, with the two OCs I did try being abysmal failures. But there are many people here who can write excellent OCs, and they might stumble here in a while.

Or I may *cough* steer some over here. *coughMJcough* ;)

#2 Apr 02nd, 2:18am
WinchesterPhantom

Hey Everyone,

Like Sao, it depends on how the OC is written, and I guess what fandom as well. It all comes down to how you make the OC and realistically place it in your fandom world and take the right steps in getting a OC/CC realationship on but then again those things apply to CC/CC realationships...I'm not making much sense am I?

A really good example is this SVU fic I'm currently reading, it's well done since the writer has set up a completely plausible relationship with this OC, and I mean it is well done...I swear to God it could be canon. All in all it all comes down to the writer and the readers...

That's my two cents, ciao all around!

~ Winy!

#3 Apr 02nd, 5:39am
KhaosNebula

My Answers to Your Question

I checked the topics and couldn't find anything on this so I thought I'd ask. How do you all feel about canon and original character relationships?

I don't really have a problem with cannon and original character relationships. The only reason I would is if the characters instantly or rapidly fall in love and get into a relationship. Other reasons for not liking said relationshiop/friendship are detailed below.

Where do you draw the line when it comes to how canon and OC's interact with each other?

In my opinion a cannon character should never treat the OC better then they do someone who they trust completely (a teammate that they would trust with their life without a question, childhood companion, someone they trust completely etc). For instance, just because the OC is pretty/handsome and saved his/her life doesn't mean that they will initially trust/like them as much as they would someone who they've known for their entire life or most of it.

Or do you just not like that sort of interaction at all? Although most of this is based off of romantic pairings, I also consider friendships when I think of canon/OC interaction.

I don't mind that sort of interaction but a relationship is something you need to consider seriously. The first thing you should take into account is that this is an OC not a Cannon Character, so in other words, the OC should probably establish a friendship with the CC in question first. The OC shouldn't just fall in love with the CC just like the CC shouldn't just fall in love with the OC.

The first thing I would recommend is having them get to know each other better. I would pretty much treat it like a person in real life: If I didn't like them (or if they pissed me off, became my enemy etc), then the thought of either friendship would never be considered. I would get to know them better until the point when I could consider it came up.

Do you think that OC/and Canon relationships have to be logical and not warp the canon if its romantic OR if its just friendship?

Yes! All relationships with OCs/CCs must be logical! If the CC doesn't like them, doesn't know them that well enough, has a conflict with them, or plainly doesn't trust them then why would a relationship of any sort be considered? As said earlier:

The first thing I would recommend is having them get to know each other better. I would pretty much treat it like a person in real life: If I didn't like them (or if they pissed me off, became my enemy etc), then the thought of either friendship would never be considered. I would get to know them better until the point when I could consider it came up. Do you think there's a difference, if in both cases the canon can be warped to have the relationship 'make sense'?

Not sure what you mean by this question...

If you don't think the same rules apply; Why is it okay to have one OC be friends with a canon, but if that same OC was romantic with them, its often viewed as a problem?

Simply put: Some people don't mind OCs being friends with a CC but others consider it in bad taste to have an OC have a relationship with the CC. When an OC is romantic with a CC it is often viewed as a problem because there might be other CCs that like the CC in question or the CC might have liked another CC. Some questions that arise include: What will the other CCs think of the OC and his/her relationship with the CC? Will there be problems between the CCs and the OC because of this? Will jealousy turn into open hate, and will this become a constant fight?

Not only do you have to worry about the reasons why this could happen, but you must also take into account the reactions of the other CCs - after all you are the one doing the story and you do have to have the CCs act the way they are supposed to act. So, that being said, you need to keep in mind the reactions of both parties - OC and CC.

I'm just very curious about how you all feel with this; and maybe get some advice on having canon interact with OC in a believable fashion.

Well, there you go! There's my opinion on friendships/relationships between OCs and CCs.

Hope it helped!

#4 Apr 02nd, 2:39pm
piewacket

How do you all feel about canon and original character relationships? Where do you draw the line when it comes to how canon and OC's interact with each other? Or do you just not like that sort of interaction at all? Although most of this is based off of romantic pairings, I also consider friendships when I think of canon/OC interaction.

Personally, I love OCs. All but one of my fics contains them. To compound the issue, my stories are all romances.

I don’t understand why the dislike of OCs is so strong for some folks. Perhaps it depends on the fandom and the characters within the fandom? I write for PotC and the only true canon pairing is Will/ Elizabeth. Since I don’t particularly care about either of these characters, I leave that pairing firmly intact.

It’s fanfiction for goodness sake. I think people sometimes take it a bit too seriously. Of course we all either want to be one of the characters, shag one of the characters or somehow magically become part of the plot. It’s our attraction to the world and fascination/ identification with the characters that kept us reading and keeps us writing.

Now blatant self inserts, where the author does nothing to make their OCs believable, three dimensional and blend with the actual story, are not pleasant to read. But I think that’s because they are obviously poorly written. I’ve found this to be true even in original and published works. *cough Bridges of Madison County cough*

#5 Apr 03rd, 7:59am . Edited Apr 04th, 8:30am
Pyrefly07

Thanks for all of your input, I highly appreciate it.

I personally love OC's, and am not one to turn away from a story due to it being an OC/Canon pairing, whether its friendship or romantic. But I also can be a bit more scrutinizing because so easily it can be turned into another badfic, and the canons who are in it aren't even really the same character. I always thought that if an OC has to cause the canon to change in order to make the relationship work, it screws up the story. I have OC's, alot of times its easier to correctly characterize the canon characters if you have them interact with your own characters.

But its kinda hard for me to do OC relationships well because (this is the reason why I've only been able to submit one fic out of the many I've written, lol), nothing ever seems right. Sometimes it makes sense but there's always one factor that makes me say; would this character really be this way with my character?

#6 Apr 04th, 12:24pm
KhaosNebula

Thanks for all of your input, I highly appreciate it.

I personally love OC's, and am not one to turn away from a story due to it being an OC/Canon pairing, whether its friendship or romantic. But I also can be a bit more scrutinizing because so easily it can be turned into another badfic, and the canons who are in it aren't even really the same character. I always thought that if an OC has to cause the canon to change in order to make the relationship work, it screws up the story. I have OC's, alot of times its easier to correctly characterize the canon characters if you have them interact with your own characters.

But its kinda hard for me to do OC relationships well because (this is the reason why I've only been able to submit one fic out of the many I've written, lol), nothing ever seems right. Sometimes it makes sense but there's always one factor that makes me say; would this character really be this way with my character?

No problem, Pyre. Always glad to help a fellow writer. ^.^

Though if you're having any doubts trying getting someone to read it. And about whether or not a character would be that way with your character: If the CC doesn't like them, doesn't know them that well enough, has a conflict with them, or plainly doesn't trust them then why would a relationship of any sort be considered? If the answer is the opposite - as in the CC likes them to some degree, knows them well enough, and hasn't had a conflict with them (whether or not they it was with a friend of the CC or the CC themselves) - then yes, it is possible that the CC could be that way!

Or... maybe you just need to put more faith in your writing? ;P

#7 Apr 04th, 4:36pm
Epilachna

Hi Pyre, to answer some of your questions (though I will sound like many of the previous posters)...

How do you all feel about canon and original character relationships? Where do you draw the line when it comes to how canon and OC's interact with each other? Or do you just not like that sort of interaction at all?

I also love OCs, my reason is that I normally write for fandoms that I feel pretty much require OCs to complete a story. I like OC/CC friendships and I think romantic relationships can work, especially in cases where a CC does not exist (for example - a character might have a son or daughter but no spouse is mentioned so an OC is required).

Do you think that OC/and Canon relationships have to be logical and not warp the canon if its romantic OR if its just friendship? Do you think there's a difference, if in both cases the canon can be warped to have the relationship 'make sense'?

I believe in keeping to canon as much as possible. My LOTR fics have been called AU (for reasons other than pairings) and I even classify them as such, but for the most part, every character is behaving and doing what is set out for them in canon. I don't like to mess with what's been laid out. It just doesn't interest me to read about an OC/CC pairing if I know that CC has a romantic connection to another CC. There are ways around this, of course, the simplest being putting the OC relationship before or after the canon relationship, but to me, that takes too much effort. I'd rather write a canon romance or just use OCs where there are spaces for new characters.

Why is it okay to have one OC be friends with a canon, but if that same OC was romantic with them, its often viewed as a problem?

I only view it as a problem if the relationship is improbable (as in they are already involved with another CC).

Two things I'll add about OCs - they need to be well developed and they need to be necessary. The first should be a no brainer, the second is not always so easy to determine. How does a writer know an OC is necessary? I, personally feel that some fandoms (LOTR as an example) needs OCs. In the novels/films we only really ever meet important people of high station who do great deeds. Who cleaned the toilets? Who died on the battlefield? Who lived beside these characters all the days of their lives? In order to write a genuine story about a CC that FEELS real, you HAVE to add OCs to complete the cast. Otherwise, the story lacks a sense of authenticity. In my first major LOTR novel I had at least 8 OCs and had to build a number of minor CCs basically from scratch. The story would not have worked without them. I kept any romantic affiliations to canon characters that did not have established CC relationships and it worked. I really do feel it all begins with the question 'what is the author trying to accomplish?' If you can tell a story will all CCs - great - if not, use OCs. Just remember, the OCs need even more love and attention than your CCs since for them you don't have another writer's work to fall back on.

#8 Apr 11th, 9:15pm
dancingcarrot21

Yes! All relationships with OCs/CCs must be logical! If the CC doesn't like them, doesn't know them that well enough, has a conflict with them, or plainly doesn't trust them then why would a relationship of any sort be considered? As said earlier:

The first thing I would recommend is having them get to know each other better. I would pretty much treat it like a person in real life: If I didn't like them (or if they pissed me off, became my enemy etc), then the thought of either friendship would never be considered. I would get to know them better until the point when I could consider it came up.

I have to agree with this. I tend to find it highly unrealistic when authors portray the love/hate romance between OC's and CC's with little or no development. Because in real life, such tumultuous relationships would end pretty quickly if the pair didn't find a way to get along. If an OC is getting involved with a CC, some kind of trust must be built between them first. As human beings, we are capable of gravitating towards others, but only if some kind of acceptance or mutual understanding is established beforehand. Why would it be any more different in fanfiction?

I believe OCs can be written extremely well. After all, published authors have OCs; their characters just don't spout out of the ground. It's the same with fanfiction authors; they too have the potential of creating brilliant OCs.

What OCs need, is depth; they need flaws, but also strengths and things people can relate to and admire. There needs to be a balance of emotions, and layers of depth. Whether some of these traits in an OC are taken from you, someone you know, someone you read about, or even purely your imagination, it has to come from somewhere. And when you add all these traits together, and put them into one OC, they can be very interesting to read about. So a healthy mix of flaws, quirks, and strengths that are believable can make a great OC!

OCs also need a purpose. They can't just pop into a scene and do nothing! They need a background and a reason why they are in the story. Great OCs can be a real contribute to a story, whether they are a main character, or a supportive one. ;)

#9 Apr 12th, 3:04am
Darren White

OCs also need a purpose. They can't just pop into a scene and do nothing! They need a background and a reason why they are in the story. Great OCs can be a real contribute to a story, whether they are a main character, or a supportive one. ;)

QFT. That's what OCs in general really come down to: you have to make your readers care about your OC, or they will leave. I've gotten so attached a well-written OC that I was actually affected when the author killed him off. That's what your goal is. Once your readers care about the character, he/she may as well be canon.

Now, for my input.

It seems to me that my main problem comes when OC/CC pairings are the focal point of a story. Side romances are great - fun to write, and they add great character development - but if you take it any farther, you risk losing readers' attention. It's not that I don't like OC/CC writers - if the pairing shows up during the story, I'm still going to read, and I've actually written it into my main fic - it's just that I don't like to see characters I don't care about being paired with characters I know and love.

If this is largely an incoherent mess that contradicts itself constantly, please feel free to ignore or nitpick - I'm tired, I'm sore, and it's late.

[/ramble]

#10 Apr 12th, 9:39pm . Edited Apr 12th, 9:46pm
Kalani Lin Titania

I can't really say much on OC/CC in a story chapter kind of thing. Many of my OC/CC happens in one-shots, which are harder. I'm not sure if I'm any good at it, but I like writing those kinds of stories. In one-shot OC/CC, you have to give them a background at the beginning of the story or incorporate it through the story (which makes it turn into a long one-shot. Most of mine are rather short) The most important thing to do is try and make the OC react as natural to a CC and vise versa. It's a tough thing to do and many times, some seem too surreal or Sues.

What Darren says about having to make your readers care about your OC is also a main thing. I have read many one-shots involving an OC and a CC relationship, when they got into a nasty fight or had to part at the end, I near damn well cried. Hell, there was a one-shot where I did cry, thankfully no one was around me to see it.

CC and OC pairings are hard to do, but if you take the steps on what a real, usual relationship are like (not the very few people who actually do fall in love and date soon after meeting each other, trust me, I've seen that happen before. Someone I knew dated the person for a year and they're engaged to be married next year). Not many couples are like that and some, if not most, take time to develop a steady acquaintance or friendship before starting to even get intimate. I know that's how I prefer my relationships, though other that know me will say otherwise. ;)

#11 Apr 16th, 6:29pm
Rowena DeVandal

In some fandoms, you almost don't have a choice but to create an OC for some of the CC's. X-Men (especially the comics and cartoons) didn't really give clearly defined partners for many of the the characters. In the movie, the only clear pairing was Scott and Jean, with Logan providing a possible second choice for Jean (gotta love those love triangles!). Another of my fave fandoms, "Firefly" has two characters with no clearly defined partner, in Jayne and River. This does NOT mean that the two of them would ever get together, even for a quickie, so if you want either of them to have a relationship, you pretty much need to create someone for them. (For the record, I don't think Jayne's the settling down type, so it'd be more of a "Miss Right Now" kind of situation, whereas River's mind is far too fractured for her to be worrying about such things in the first place.)

Interesting side note: Lin, one of my best ever AD&D:OA (Advance Dungeons & Dragons: Oriental Adventures, specifically 3rd edition) characters was named Natsuki Katsumi. So I'm pretty tickled by your name right now...;)

#12 Apr 16th, 8:48pm . Edited Apr 16th, 8:52pm
Kalani Lin Titania

That's true. For example, in the Prince of Tennis fandom, there are a lot of boys and no one can say otherwise. There are pretty much only three girls that make regular appearances with the tennis teams, and not all of their personalities can match with every single boy since there are like more than thirty boys, on nine or ten different tennis teams. There's a lot of boys, and you can't pair them up with only the girls there because it seems they have some kind of designated partner that they could end up with so it limits their pairings. If you wanted to see a different pairing, it'll be much easier and rather interesting to have OCs in there as well. One OC, two, an entire new tennis team can be fine, but as long as they have their own unique personalities and strengths and weaknesses, I believe it can work out and each of the girls could be paired off with the Canon Characters.

Wow, really?! That's so cool! Katsumi is a pretty name and Lin Katsumi has a nice ring to it when I say it in my head or aloud.

#13 Apr 16th, 11:00pm
Viv the Rabid Ballet Freak

OC/CC romances depend, really, on the OC and CC.

For example, in Twilight, Edward and Bella are obviously a couple. To pair Edward with an OC, at any time, wouldn't work out.

Another example would be Eragon. Murtagh and Eragon both like/seem to like Nasuada and Arya, respectively. If Murtagh was, as many people make him, fall in love with and OC because Galbatorix wished for him to marry, then it still depends. Galbatorix can control the mind, but we don't know if he can control the heart. He can make Murtagh think he's in love with the OC, but he may not be. A somewhat similar case goes for Eragon. He's basically in love with Arya. To have him fall in love after a few minutes of meeting an OC wouldn't be right. He's had his heart broken, and it takes time to repair. If he fell in love over a long period of time, and I mean really long, then it'd be more... acceptable, or something.

The OC can't be the paragon of virtue that some people make them. They have to have obvious flaws, and not just a bad hair cut, or a stubborn personality. They need to be, I don't know, over-confident, for example. Having a flaw may set off real dislike, but it will make it more believable, and you can take more time to develop the character.

Sorry if that was a little bit off, but... That's my two-cents.

-Mort

#14 Apr 20th, 10:33am
WhisperToMeSoftly

Just for the sake of expressing my thoughts here, I always found it much more interesting when OCs were paired with a canon who wasn't often paired with someone. I know that sounds really vague, but let me try to explain.

In Pushing Daisies, a woman named Olive has some unrequited love for the main character. Pairing her with an OC would be logical, and it would make readers feel good that she had finally found love.

In Avatar, Toph's only crush is desperately in love with someone else. Pairing her with an OC would be difficult, since she isn't the type of girl who likes being pampered. But it would be fun to see someone (i.e. an OC) try, no?

Another thing is that I'm a bit more drawn to OC/canon relationships when it's a girl canon and a guy OC. I mean, how many mary-sue/hot guy main character fics do we see around here? Answer: too many. Of course, it is completely possible to have a gary sue. But they're much rarer.

Perhaps an OC for Benjamin Linus in LOST: the bad guy. Who could love a sociopath? It would be difficult to keep him in character, but it would definitely be a blast to read!

Perhaps an OC for Mr. Gibbs in PoTC: errrrm. Ugly drunk? Yes. But he could find someone. You never know.

I also very much enjoy flawed OCs. In one fanfic involving Olive and an OC (mentioned above), the OC turned out to be a con man who was just preparing to pull of his latest heist--on her. It doesn't have to work out. As long as it makes sense.

Also, it should take a while for them to get to know each other. Just leaping into romance makes it sound forced and desperate.

Bottom line: the character has to be well-written, well-rounded, and believable. And the canon character's...well, character...can't be compromised in the process.

#15 May 03rd, 12:32pm
piewacket

Perhaps an OC for Benjamin Linus in LOST: the bad guy. Who could love a sociopath? It would be difficult to keep him in character, but it would definitely be a blast to read!

You might be surprised. It's not uncommon for convicted murderers, even serial killers, to receive 'fan' letters from women. Offhand, I can think of two cases where women 'met' the manwhile he was on death row and ended up marrying him.

#16 May 03rd, 2:39pm
Virtuella

My first fan fic is a OC/CC romance, which I wrote innocently in total ignorance of the existence of the fan fic community or the dreaded term Mary Sue. I think that bye and large the story is a success. Here are some of the things I did:

- Considered very carefully the psychology of the CC; if and how he would be inclined to fall in love. The CC is unattached in canon.

- Considered what kind of person would appeal to this CC with regard to personality, temper, education, social status etc

- Created a background story for my OC that believably explained how she became a person with the required qualities. Obviously, that background story fits into the general parameters of the fandom.

- Created a situation in which the OC would meet the CC in a natural manner and on a regular basis over a longer period of time, so they would have a chance to get to know each other gradually.

- Invented plot lines that provide opportunities for the CC to recognize the abovementioned qualities in the OC - again, gradually.

- Fitted the plot line in with canon events.

- Embedded the OC in a network of relationships with other characters, both CC and OC, through interactions with whom her personality becomes clear. Also contrasted her with other characters and did mirror images/variations on her situation.

I suppose some cynics would still call her a Sue, because, hey, she gets the guy in the end. But really, I am puzzled about this whole idea that every OC is a Sue or that OCs in general are bad. If we want to write fan fiction at all, obviously we have to add new elements, otherwise we'd just be copying the book. Why should it be okay to add new plot lines, but not new characters? That makes no sense to me. I think the criterion should be how well adapted an OC is to the fandom he/she appears in.

#17 May 26th, 5:08pm
Epilachna

Virtuella, I think you did everything a good fanfic writer should do when incorporating an OC. I, personally, would much rather read an OC/CC relationship than a relationship between two CCs that has no basis in canon. I think the trouble comes in when SO MANY terrible writers throw original characters into a story without doing what you've done. It gets annoying after awhile, which is why many people avoid OC stories altogether. I thrive on writing OCs and have been very successful - but it is difficult to get the OC phobics to click on your story when they know it has OCs. I usually put the warning up front just to be fair to the readers even though I know some will be turned off immediately.

I will add one thing - I've never read a great story that had poorly developed OCs. Not to be cruel, but I think much of the problem with Sues comes down to people with poor creative writing skills thinking they can write well when they don't even read real books, and have no concept of how to develop a plot, characters or write thematically.

#18 May 26th, 6:14pm . Edited May 26th, 6:16pm
LicoriceSnoCone

I like OC's. A well written OC/CC is something I adore. Unfortunately most OC's purposes are only to hook up with the CC, which is something I hate.

#19 May 26th, 7:18pm
Epilachna

Unfortunately most OC's purposes are only to hook up with the CC, which is something I hate.

I think it depends on context. I mean, if you want to invent the spouse of a canon character who's wife/husband is never mentioned then you will be creating an OC for that purpose. I think there is a difference between an OC that serves as 'wish fulfillment' for the author, and an OC that is written because the story you want to tell can't happen without him/her.

#20 May 26th, 7:29pm
MadeUpFigment

I see a lot of advice for romance between an OC and a canon character, but what if the OC is related to the canon character? Such as children/parents/siblings. Many times, an OC is considered a sue if they'er in any way related to the character (usually child or twin). Is there a good way to introduce a twin/sibling OC (as a way to work around the fact that they've never been mentioned in canon and such)? What makes a child OC sue-ish exactly? Sorry for my ignorance on the subject.

#21 Jun 04th, 6:53am . Edited Jun 04th, 6:53am
Seriously Wrong

Where it can tend to become "sueish" is when an extra sibling/child is added to a family that has had its parameters set by canon. In the LotR fandom, Elrond had three children, it's well established, so when another child is added to the mix it's not quite believable, usually leading to the designation of Sue. The canon characters must be pushed so far out of their characterizations to include this person everyone becomes unbelievable.

Now, in the same fandom if you gave Legolas a brother or sister, it would be feasible because the author never told us whether he had siblings. The best OC's are true to the fandom, fit seamlessly into the author's world and don't make canon characters completely different from the original.

#22 Jun 04th, 6:03pm
MadeUpFigment

Thanks, Seriously Wrong!

#23 Jun 09th, 1:55pm
Virtuella

What do people think about this:

Writing an OC/CC romance for a CC, who in canon is always depicted in a very official role, but with the OC shares more private situations (the set-up for those is properly motivated). If the CC was seen in these situation to behave slightly different from canon (e.g. more relaxed, chatty), but still along the same parameters that define his canon self (e.g. rational, dispassionate), would you say that was OOC? Or would the different behaviour be justified by the fact that the character is shown in a different sutiation?

I am asking this for the obvious reason that I have written that scenario, and some people said the CC was very IC, while others found him very OOC. I was wondering , whether the latter group simply identified the CC with his public persona, while I had tried to develop from what little is known about him privately a credible mode of behaviour in a romance situation.

#24 Jun 09th, 2:16pm
Rowena DeVandal

Most people in real life who have "official" type jobs (politicians, law enforcement, military) tend to be more relaxed outside of their work. Even people with "unofficial" type jobs (business executive, school adminstrator, physician) will act differently at work than they do at home. I think showing a more "human" side of people in these types of work is a very good thing, because it shows that the characters are not one-dimensional and defined solely by their work. So I say don't worry about what those people are saying the CC is OOC, because he probably isn't. It's easy for people to identify solely with the public persona of a CC, because it's the most obvious. You're giving him another layer and as long as he's still recognizable in his "offical" capacity, I'm sure you're doing everything right.

#25 Jun 09th, 3:51pm
Epilachna

Even people with "unofficial" type jobs (business executive, school adminstrator, physician) will act differently at work than they do at home.

I have to agree there. Most real people have a public and private side to their lives. As an odd example - I have a PhD in biology and work as a research associate in a major university, I teach college classes, advise students on research projects. I'm also a women's flat track roller derby referee and coach who spends evenings and weekends skating with a bunch of tattooed badasses who love to knock each other around. Would the two go together in your mind?

EDIT:

And of course I also write fanfiction and comment on these Forums. Don't I sound like a really absurd OC? I think the one thing to keep in mind when writing characters is that MOST people in the world are eccentric or have some strange things about them that make you think 'that can't be real'. The key to making such a character believable is balancing the fantastic with the mundane.

#26 Jun 09th, 8:19pm . Edited Jun 09th, 8:29pm
Virtuella

Hmmm, yes. I think there are a few things that people maybe misunderstand about this character. For example, the character gives himself a menacing air of being cruel and unpredictable, and I wonder if people believe that he actuallt is. Wheras I am sure that this is a tool of his trade, and that he very delibarately intimidates people, who will then do what he wants, so he doesn't actually need to do anything cruel. They seem to deduct fromt he fact that he never shows any emotion, that he doesn't have any. I just deducted from it that he is a fairly dispassionate person with very good self-control. (Emotion and passion being two different things, in my opinion.) The fact that he has never attached himself to anybody in nearly fifty years does not mean that he in unable to do so - it can equally mean lack of opportunity, and there is actually an example in that canon of another character, who was always unattached and even very cynical, but who falls in love in middle age. Furthermore, there are quite a few childhood fics about this character, and they all seem to assume that he came from a cold and emotionally abusive home, whereas I think the sane, confident and balanced way he presents as an adult is an indication that he had supportive and nurturing parents.

On the other hand, I don't just want to dismiss the criticism by saying those people don't understand the character correctly. I keep worrying about this story and I have changed it umpteen times, because I am just so anxious to get it right. Hmm, maybe it's time to detach myself a bit from it...

#27 Jun 09th, 11:26pm
Epilachna

They seem to deduct from the fact that he never shows any emotion, that he doesn't have any.

That's just plain absurd. Unless you are a sociopath, being a cool, reserved individual doesn't mean you don't have any emotions - it means you are more adept at keeping them in check. I'm curious to know the ages/experiences of the reviewers who think he is OOC. That might tell you a lot about their understanding of people in general.

Also, a question. Is there anything known in canon about this character's past, motives, etc.? Their claims of OOCness may be due to a different interpretation of some canon events that you see one way and they see another (again from different experience).

I don't just want to dismiss the criticism by saying those people don't understand the character correctly. I keep worrying about this story and I have changed it umpteen times, because I am just so anxious to get it right.

I'd ask the negative reviewers what their thoughts are in more detail. You may find that they don't have anything substantial to say other than 'he's not mean enough' and that's just not a good excuse for calling someone OOC. I'm thinking of some of the 'mean' characters in my favorite fandoms/films/TV and all of them have a gentler side with at least one person in their lives. It's not something others in the story would see, but it's there, and that's what you're trying to do for this character.

#28 Jun 10th, 7:48am
Virtuella

Is there anything known in canon about this character's past, motives, etc.?

Not much. He is presumed to come from a very rich and powerful family, yet the only relative we ever hear about is an aunt. He appears to have a good relationship with the aunt. There are hints that he was orphaned at an early age and was brought up by the aunt; at least his father is dead by the time he is a young adult. He was trained to be an assassin and came into power some time in his thirties.

My deductions about his family are all based on psychology. He is confident, balanced, socially competent, very disciplined and a self-actualizing individual in the Maslowian sense. That points toward authoritative parents, i.e. parents who were strict, loving, supportive, and set very high standards. I feel that part of his motivation could almost be a kind of legacy, as if being an excellent ruler is something he owed to his family.

In recent books, a recurring theme with him is that he appears concerned about the way people perceive him. He has skillfully built up the persona of the menacing tyrant, because that suited his purposes, but lately it seems to bug him that people identify him so completely with that image. He is heard to say things to his secretary like "I am not completely heartless, you know," or "Am I a tyrant?" That was my starting point for my OC: She comes into the city from elsewhere, i.e. with no preconceived ideas about him, and while she is intelligent, she is also very naive and tends to see people in a rosy light. So his usual intimidation strategies all fail on her, because it just doesn't occur to her that anybody might try to intimidate her. Thus she comes to see the person he is, and that pleases him.

#29 Jun 10th, 9:32am
Epilachna

Sounds good to me. Keep in mind, too, that while you may want to make each story you write as enjoyable for your readers as possible, you are never going to please everyone. What's more important is that you write a story that is true to the spirit of the original work and makes you happy. If you aren't proud of your work then there's really no point in writing, is there?

#30 Jun 10th, 10:56am
Virtuella

Oh, I was fairly proud of the story in the first place, but I have made a lot of changes based on readers' comments, and that has made it much better. Many of the comments were about things I hadn't considered very much, e.g. some of the dialogue being too formal. But the OOC thing bugged me, because the characterization was something I had given a lot of thought to. Of course, it is possible to have several equally valid interpretations of a character.

#31 Jun 10th, 2:30pm

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