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Forums » The Children of Lorelei » Hiryuu no Futofude; Kouryuu no Hosofude #1-Seeing my Point of View: Main Char POV
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kochan1
Topic: Hiryuu no Futofude; Kouryuu no Hosofude #1-Seeing my Point of View: Main Char POV
The question of what Point of View to use for a story is often a simple one for people here at FFN. Most people, whether new writers or seasoned veterans, choose the same: Third Person.

Likewise, more than Ninety percent of published fiction these days is written in the same: Limited Third Person.

"Ryu did this, Ryu did that."

However, it's very easy for a writer (especially a new writer) to slip into the 'Omniscient Third Person', where an unseen narrator knows what everyone is thinking.

"The village is heavily guarded. It's too dangerous." Ryu knew the truth wouldn't go down well. Hayate felt the anger flare within.

We start off in Ryu's mind: "Ryu knew the truth..." But with the last sentence, "Hayate felt the anger..." we're suddenly in Hayate's mind.

Staying with Third Person Limited would give us: "The village is heavily guarded. It's too dangerous." Ryu guessed that the truth wouldn't go down well. The frown and narrowed eyes on Hayate's face warned him of the angered outburst that was to follow.

Big difference. Ryu only knows what Hayate is thinking because he notes his friend's reaction and interprets it.

The reader is someone that travels within a character's mind. They see, hear, smell, touch and taste everything that character does, and also read the thoughts of that character. As mentioned, it doesn't take much effort for the reader to shift from one char to another.

Kasumi watched Lei Fang. She loved those pigtails; the way they flowed about the Chinese girl as she practiced her Tai Chi was so alluring.

POV in Kasumi. But if the next paragraph goes on to say:

Lei Fang smiled back at Kasumi. She thought about that gentle stride she always walked with: Graceful and shy.

What's happened here? We've suddenly leaped from Kasumi's mind into Lei Fang's! Different feelings, different emotions. We've lost track of where we are and more importantly which character to identify with (Who we are).

Omniscient Third Person seems like a good way to clue the reader in on all aspects of the story, but actually makes the reader less connected to all of the characters.

Very simple rule here - Pick one character and follow the entire scene through his or her eyes alone. Feel free to switch viewpoint characters between scenes of course (using a scenebreak).

So what happens when you want to throw in some idea of what other characters in the scene might be thinking/feeling? Almost all emotions have outward signs to them. Scratching one's chin? Raising an Eyebrow? Biting one's lip? A sigh, a snigger, a smirk...all of these convey emotions of some sort depending on the context in which they're used.

On a small side point, it's always better to try and 'show' the reader what is happening rather than 'tell' them.

"Ryu was confused."

or

"Ryu scratched his chin, eyebrows knotting in a frown."

The latter creates mental pictures for the reader and also involves the reader in the story rather than just spoon-feeding them information.

Of course, we don't do this for every little thing in the story. Otherwise it becomes padded with detail and ceases to do what we want it to do (Tell the story).

So to summarise the couple of tips above.

- Show, don't tell.

- Choose your POV char with care and stick with them through the whole scene: You'll find the audience sticking with your story through to the very end :)

#1 Dec 29th 2005, 5:53am . Edited Jan 24th 2006, 6:47pm
Thunderxtw
How do you go about making a scene break? I can't use the add ruler line because the site deleted my story for using that, they considered it listing.
#2 Dec 29th 2005, 8:44am
kochan1
How do you go about making a scene break? I can't use the add ruler line because the site deleted my story for using that, they considered it listing.

Guidelines from the doc manager: Point 2 is of note. The HR tag is the ruler I believe...which is what I use as well.

Might depend on how many times you did it in a row. How exactly did you write the part that caused the story to be deleted?

I know how you feel - 3 years someone complained about a fic I posted and it was deleted with all reviews. My account was suspended for 2 weeks and I was given a warning that if it happened again the suspension might become permanent. There were quite a few other fics about (prob still are) that were more in violation than mine. Just that no one (has) complained. It's how it is at FFN though.

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#3 Dec 29th 2005, 3:29pm
Thunderxtw
I know how you feel - 3 years someone complained about a fic I posted and it was deleted with all reviews. My account was suspended for 2 weeks and I was given a warning that if it happened again the suspension might become permanent. There were quite a few other fics about (prob still are) that were more in violation than mine. Just that no one (has) complained. It's how it is at FFN though.

Whoa really? Tha happened to you too? That sucks. That happened to me too about a week ago. I lost all my reviews and everything. Think goodness I had a friend who saved the chapters so I didnt have to rewrite them all. That would have been awful.

I guess the listing part had something to do with me putting in replies to the reviews at the bottom, because I did use the add ruler to seperate each one, so they wouldnt be confusing. Also, I noticed what you mean. A couple stories on the front page are breaking more rules than mine but yet their still not deleted. I saw one fic recently that's rated T when it should really be rated M for its sexually graphic content that occurs at the 8th chapter. I really don't think its fair how they go about such a thing with you and me. 2 weeks you say? Heh, all I got was a one week banning and that was bad enough.

#4 Dec 29th 2005, 7:30pm
kochan1
Yup...it sucked alright. I sent emails to the mods 3 times to ask where I'd gone wrong and never received a response. It was rated R - someone thought it should have been NC-17 obviously and reported it. I already had the Html files I uploaded so saving the story wasn't a prob. If you're game - you can see the story posted on Mediaminer. Hop to my user link here and head to the url in my profile.

Ko-chan's Profile

Do take heed of the warnings though. Some people might consider it Hard-R, but well...I don't believe so. The images are rather vivid so I've been told though.

I don't think it's against the rules to put replies to reviews at the bottom of the fic, provided they don't end up larger than the fic itself and provided you don't post them as separate chapters altogether. Heck...I've seen people using anonymous reviews to reply to other reviewers on their own fic and even flame ppl who've given constructive criticism in this way. No one's reported it. If that's not abuse, I don't know what is.

In your situation, using the ruler in between each reply may have raised attention to that portion. I guess I can see how some would see that as listing, though there's no visible harm in it. I wonder who would have gone snooping to notice or report it though.

As you said, the Justice here is quite blind. You and I were unfortunate. In 4 years of being on FFN, I've just learnt to keep my head low so as not to get hit by the scythe when it swings across. J

FFN protects itself first, the readers second and the people who post on it last. It only takes one over conservative parent to see something out of place here to complain and the axe will fall in an instant.

I'll drop a review for you sometime btw - I had a quick read of your Lei Fang fic earlier :) I wrote something brief (and looking back on it - cheesy) back 4 years ago.

Have a squizz if you like: Unsent Letters Chapter 6

Don't feel bad about what happened - Just get back to your writing, I'm sure a week didn't hurt your posting schedule too much :)

Cheers!

Ko-chan

#5 Dec 30th 2005, 6:21am
Thunderxtw
Really? Me and another user did the same in sending emails to the Mods to ask about what happened and they never responded. I did get an email from the admin telling me the things I did wrong. But some of them didnt even make sense. One reason they said was that I had a poll in my story. I don't recall having a poll anywhere. I feel they don't really explain what they mean, or they just don't know what they're talking about. I too wish I knew who would go and report me like that. My story was doing fine, and then all the sudden, bam! It's gone.

I read the guidelines and it said something about you may only post author's notes at the beginning and end of a story. The way they go about things is harsh. I mean, it did kinda put me in a bad mood after I got banned because I was planning to submit more chapters since I was out of school. It didnt mess me up too much, but I felt like I was being punished for something unnecssary, especially when you got people doing things a heack of a lot worse than what I did.

Right now, I'm just continuing to write and act like nothing happend. Thanks for the advice.

#6 Dec 30th 2005, 9:03am

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