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Forums » What makes a DBZSM fic worth reading » Is my Hikari a Mary-Sue?
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Jay FicLover
Topic: Is my Hikari a Mary-Sue?
In case you're wondering, her flaws, or at least the ones I have in mind right now, are:

1) she's childish, yet she doesn't want to be treated as a child, in other words she doesn't look forward to work hard to get other people's respect;

2) she's a bit spoiled: even though she, unlike ChibiUsa, wasn't acknowledged as a princess by the people around her all of her life, the Asteroid senshi, Luna and co. still doted on her a lot and treated her as such, and the people of Earth too, which was part of the reason Goku and Usagi decided that they and Hikari move to Chikyuu, where nobody would treat their daughter so special and she could have a normal life... but the effects of the Asteroid's pamperings had already taken place. Unlike ChibiUsa', though, Hikari's spoiled ways don't manifest as much in her attitude, but in her unconscious belief that her puppy eyes can get her anything (she's a lot more manipulating than ChibiUsa, which makes her a lot more like Usagi than ChibiUsa was, in my opinion). In this point she's a lot like the way DBGT Bra is often portrayed: she has her parents and some of their freinds wrapped around her little finger... and unfortunately enough, she knows it.

3) She often isn't conscious of her actions. That's because Usagi was quite a bit more overprotective of her than she was with ChibiUsa, in fact it was her lingering feelings of guilt about ChibiUsa's death that caused her to spoil and overprotect Hikari so much... (the intense arguement between Hikari and Usagi, and between Usagi and Goku, prior to getting permission for Hikari's time travel will be engaged in flash backs later on).

4) She's basically UNtrained in the use of Ki: Goku taught her martial arts and the basic Ki blast but with his time half spent always saving some random world with Usagi (her being Cosmos didn't live her a choice in this matter) or doing errands for the Kais, King Enma and co., and half spent helping the new other saiyans (plot secret!) accomodate to their new life on Chikyuu over the years, he didn't have as much time so he left it to others (second plot secret!) but Hikari didn't enjoy the company of her fellow trainees so she only bothered to learn the basics before she droped out... But don't worry, she'll be forced to start training again, I won't be giving her much choice in the matter (laughs wickedly).

5) The mixture of her saiyan and lunarian traits often cause some of her more mental powers to have moments of weird reactions, increasing or dropping erratically and having sometimes violent manifestations and consequences in things and people around her. Videl's lunar mind meld, for example, was one of those moments when her psychic powers spiked up without warning: if she's not careful she could cause people a brain tumor, which is the reason why her learning to control those mental powers is much more important than having her train her physical ones This is actually the other reason Goku chose not to train her: so that she concentrated on understanding her psychic powers first, before her emotions wrecked havoc with her mental powers everytime she got upset or something (random objects either freezing, moving violently or exploting, people getting unexplained head-aches, etc)

So, what do you think? Is she being portrayed as a Mary-Sue in the fic right now, would that be improved or made worse with this flaws I just mentioned I'm planning to add in oncoming chapters? Be honest, please. I'm racking my brains to avoid it from happening. But WLA was techically my first fanfic ever and Hikari my first OC. I worked hard in chapter 6 and from then on to make her flaws more noticeable to anyone else beside myself.

No matter what you say (except plain rude comments or insults that is) I will pay attention and respect it. Your opinions matter to me greatly in this, people. ^_^

#1 Apr 12th 2006, 11:27pm
Jay FicLover
I won't bite your head off if you say she's a Mary Sue... don't worry! ^_^

I already took a Litmut Mary Sue text and it came up as a yes, nothing could deal a worst blow to my ego than that, so please feel free to be honest. ^_^

#2 Apr 20th 2006, 11:28am
MasterMillerLITE
I never had the feeling Hikari was a Mary-Sue, though to be honest, I don't remember all the details of your story. An update would be helpful ;)

From what I do remember, nothing really set off any alarms. Most Mary-Sues are perfect, flawless, lovely, etc. They are basically gods (and usually self-inserted characters). Hikari pretty much had her own limits and as such, she doesn't qualify under the Mary-Sue definition. While she has her own unique abilities, she is still outclassed by other fighters, and she didn't suddenly learn how to become as powerful as Goku.

So why did you ask, Jay? Seeing as Hikari seems perfectly fine (in the context of the story), I can't see a reason why one would think that. Just curious.

#3 Apr 20th 2006, 6:01pm
Jay FicLover
I don't remember all the details of your story. An update would be helpful ;)

The reader's wish is my command: it's just been done... ^_^

After I got the possitive results of the online Litmut test I analized my character Hikari with to find whether she was a Mary Sue, I realized many of the questions to which I had answered 'yes' were about a character with above normal qualities arriving in a not so abnromal place, and with my character being in the DBZ world instead of a normal one there are some things there that count as "average normal2 for any character to be able to do! Like flying, changing eye and hair colour when they turn to Super Saiyan (I'll have Hikari do that... some day. just not right now... basically she hasn't even reached Super Saiyan level one yet) and... stuff.

Anyway, what I hope is that people notice that though she's one of the stories main characters, the fic isn't just about 'her' and 'her' problems... the majority of the other characters have their own issues to worry about, whether they have something to do with Hikari or not. I hope that is signal enough that I don't intend to make her after ME or a Mary Sue... (besides, if I made her after me, I'd also try to makean effort to be honest and show also my flaws).

Who knows?

#4 Apr 21st 2006, 8:11pm
MasterMillerLITE
Hey Jay. I haven't completed the newest chapter, but I wanted to alert you to a potential error that I've only realized through being exposed to the original Sailor Moon (subbed, not dubbed). You have FishEye as a girl, but in the anime AND manga, she is actually a he. Like Zoisite, they changed his sex because of his having such feminine traits. I don't think Vegeta Jr. would be interested if that were the case!

Otherwise, I'm enjoying everything else. If I missed a past notation that said you'd keep her as a girl (or that the characters didn't know by some chance), then I'm sorry for missing it.

#5 Apr 21st 2006, 8:39pm
Jay FicLover
Yes, I gave a warning about it somewhere in an author's note in Paths Crossing. In the anime version, Helios/Pegasus takes the souls of the Amazon Trio for a second chance in Elysion. My take on it is the magic also granted Fish Eye's wish to be female, so when she was revied she was no longer a man, but a true woman.

With Zoicite, I still kept him a man, but it doesn't matter because he's already dead and Kunzite is grieving so much that he got involved with a woman just because she looked a lot like Zoicite's feminine features (weather he loves her or not, that's a story for another day)

Not that I'm particularly against homosexuality, I'm just trying to respect the rating of a 'T' fic.

Thanks for the warning anyway. Oh, and by the way, do you think I should rise the rating to 'M' because of Geta's ocasional foul mouth?

#6 Apr 21st 2006, 10:32pm . Edited Apr 21st 2006, 10:39pm
MasterMillerLITE
Ah, okay, that makes sense. I figured that you hadn't gotten this far into your story without noticing (if it had been an error), but I wanted to make sure.

As far as rating, how foul would you say Geta's mouth will get. I can't recall everything he said right now, but if it's only the occassional beep or "God beep I don't think the change is warranted. If he calls Goku Jr. a beep beep beep then maybe you should... :p

Edited by: Jay FicLover, just in case... Forums also have rating... -_-

#7 Apr 21st 2006, 10:39pm . Edited by Jay FicLover, Apr 21st 2006, 10:45pm
Jay FicLover
I'm positive I've had him say the b* beep *tch word somewhere, do you think it counts?
#8 Apr 21st 2006, 10:43pm . Edited Apr 21st 2006, 10:45pm
MasterMillerLITE
Nah. That's pretty tame when compared to what would constitute a Mature rating. If that's about as bad as it'll get, then there shouldn't be a problem.

I don't think there's a need to censor in a story either. If he's going to say something bad, you can have him just say it. If you don't, then just have the character be interrupted by something before the word can find its way out into the open.

#9 Apr 21st 2006, 10:46pm
Jay FicLover
The BEEP was for fun as much as it was for rating purposes... I just find it amusing ^__^

I just don't wanna get in trouble, that's just all.

#10 Apr 21st 2006, 11:04pm
Nerf-or-Nothing
You have FishEye as a girl, but in the anime AND manga, she is actually a he

Actually FishEye was a girl in the anime but in the manga FishEye was a very girly man. She had boobs in the anime, lmao. In the manga FishEye was a guy dressing, talking and acting like a girl.

The same for Zoisite. In the manga, it was a man, a girly man who was involved romantically with another man. Malechite/Kunzite. When they created the anime they made him a girl. Zoisite and Kunsite were still together in both anime and manga.

They've done that a lot in the dub versions.

Some even say that in the manga star series, the StarLights were actually girls still and only dressed as guys whereas the manga they became men outside of senshi form.

I don't think they were woman in the manga while in human form. I think they could swicth as Uranus/Haruka did when she was first introduced in the manga. Picture prove that.

#11 Mar 19th 2007, 5:14pm
MasterMillerLITE
Nerf-or-Nothing, unless I've misunderstood you, you really need to check your facts.

Actually FishEye was a girl in the anime but in the manga FishEye was a very girly man. She had boobs in the anime, lmao. In the manga FishEye was a guy dressing, talking and acting like a girl.

Fisheye was a guy in both the anime and manga. The big joke with the dub was that they made him a woman, and still had a shot in one episode that revealed his chest (which was flat). The same holds true for Zoisite: he was a man in both the manga and anime. The DUB had them changed to women because of their sexual orientation.

Some even say that in the manga star series, the StarLights were actually girls still and only dressed as guys whereas the manga they became men outside of senshi form.

You have it mixed up. The Starlights, in the manga, are women both outside their Senshi forms and while in them. In the anime, they were men outside of their Senshi forms-- something that bothered Naoko Takeuchi who had established that only females could be Sailor Senshi.

I don't think they were woman in the manga while in human form. I think they could swicth as Uranus/Haruka did when she was first introduced in the manga. Picture prove that.

Huh? Who in what human form? What about Haruka (who was a woman while in her Senshi form and not)?

#12 Mar 20th 2007, 1:41pm
Nerf-or-Nothing
I haven't seen the original anime version in Japan, I was referring to the dub because that is the first I had seen Sailor Moon, I'm American.

I just started watching the Japanese episodes that I found on YouTube, I hadn't gotten some movies in Japanese before.

I know they changed the dub series because it was meant for children, I am sorry to have confused you. I should say the dub instead of just anime as they have many different versions. Sailor Moon is a classic anime that has been seen almost everywhere and no doubt changed.

In the dub version FishEye was a girl. I haven't seen the other versions but it even states in episodes when they call FishEye, "She, Her and etc." Zoisite was also a girl in the dub. It was a kids show when introduced to America. I can see why they changed it but I do like the original better.

In the manga they were both men.

In the manga they were guys dressed as girls, but when I said some speculate they can change gender I meant that's how some view it.

You see, in the manga series I perchased, Haruka could be shown as a guy and also as a girl. Some thought the Starlights did that as well.

In the anima Star version, never viewed on American TV, they were men outside of senshi form. Clearly since Seiya had a towel wrapped around his waist in an episode.

When I said human form, I mant basically like a mortal or born from earth. They were reborn on earth, yes, but they original came from their own planets.

So their senshi form is different from their usual human form. Like Serenity, Sailor Moon and Usagi/Serena. She often called herself the "reincarnation" of Serenity but rarely just Serenity.

In the manga Uranus was a man in human form... but other times he was a she and it wasn't just dressing in drag.

I have some original work from the creator of the manga you can get on her site and other sites and direct pictures from the manga. They show Haruka as a man and in others a woman. She even dressed similar to Tuxedo Mask when she and Neptune were first introduced in the manga.

I just started watching the subtitle Japanese episodes for Sailor Moon. I lost interest after awhile and so did others, the Sailor Moon sections seem a little slow lately.

I'll say dub next time. I didn't narrow down when I said anime. In the dub though, FishEye and Zoisite are female.

And I did mix up my writing, that was an error.

Some even say that in the manga star series, the StarLights were actually girls still and only dressed as guys whereas the manga they became men outside of senshi form.

I said manga twice. Hey, I was tired... had to work that night heh.

I meant to say, "Some even say that in the manga Star series the Starlights were actually girls still and only dressed as guys, whereas in the "ANIME they became men outside senshi form."

I meant to say anime not manga. I said it twice for two different explanations. That was a mix up hehe. Goota be more careful with what I write lol.

Sorry for any confusion I caused, when I talk, type and such my mind goes faster then my mouth and my key typing hands. You should hear me talk, haha.

I'll have to take my time when I share my thoughts. I don't explain correctly and enough and it's usually vague and misunderstood. My fault, ehehe.

I'll check out some epidoes from the original based anime to see your points. They changed a lot more to the dub then just that and quite frankly now that I'm older the dub isn't so good anymore.

#13 Mar 21st 2007, 10:50pm
Nerf-or-Nothing
I haven't seen the original anime version in Japan, I was referring to the dub because that is the first I had seen Sailor Moon, I'm American.

I just started watching the Japanese episodes that I found on YouTube, I hadn't gotten some movies in Japanese before.

I know they changed the dub series because it was meant for children, I am sorry to have confused you. I should say the dub instead of just anime as they have many different versions. Sailor Moon is a classic anime that has been seen almost everywhere and no doubt changed.

In the dub version FishEye was a girl. I haven't seen the other versions but it even states in episodes when they call FishEye, "She, Her and etc." Zoisite was also a girl in the dub. It was a kids show when introduced to America. I can see why they changed it but I do like the original better.

In the manga they were both men.

In the manga they were guys dressed as girls, but when I said some speculate they can change gender I meant that's how some view it.

You see, in the manga series I perchased, Haruka could be shown as a guy and also as a girl. Some thought the Starlights did that as well.

In the anima Star version, never viewed on American TV, they were men outside of senshi form. Clearly since Seiya had a towel wrapped around his waist in an episode.

When I said human form, I mant basically like a mortal or born from earth. They were reborn on earth, yes, but they original came from their own planets.

So their senshi form is different from their usual human form. Like Serenity, Sailor Moon and Usagi/Serena. She often called herself the "reincarnation" of Serenity but rarely just Serenity.

In the manga Uranus was a man in human form... but other times he was a she and it wasn't just dressing in drag.

I have some original work from the creator of the manga you can get on her site and other sites and direct pictures from the manga. They show Haruka as a man and in others a woman. She even dressed similar to Tuxedo Mask when she and Neptune were first introduced in the manga.

I just started watching the subtitle Japanese episodes for Sailor Moon. I lost interest after awhile and so did others, the Sailor Moon sections seem a little slow lately.

I'll say dub next time. I didn't narrow down when I said anime. In the dub though, FishEye and Zoisite are female.

And I did mix up my writing, that was an error.

Some even say that in the manga star series, the StarLights were actually girls still and only dressed as guys whereas the manga they became men outside of senshi form.

I said manga twice. Hey, I was tired... had to work that night heh.

I meant to say, "Some even say that in the manga Star series the Starlights were actually girls still and only dressed as guys, whereas in the "ANIME they became men outside senshi form."

I meant to say anime not manga. I said it twice for two different explanations. That was a mix up hehe. Goota be more careful with what I write lol.

Sorry for any confusion I caused, when I talk, type and such my mind goes faster then my mouth and my key typing hands. You should hear me talk, haha.

I'll have to take my time when I share my thoughts. I don't explain correctly and enough and it's usually vague and misunderstood. My fault, ehehe.

I'll check out some epidoes from the original based anime to see your points. They changed a lot more to the dub then just that and quite frankly now that I'm older the dub isn't so good anymore.

#14 Mar 21st 2007, 10:54pm

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