Okay, thanks ^^7/12/2010 #31
Maybe I shouldn't have told you that? How old are you?7/12/2010 #32
I'm just very naive and uninformed about sex7/12/2010 #33
Oh phew. I was worried you might be a minor. Male or female?7/12/2010 #34
Maybe we should go tot he chat thread before we get too off topic.
I'm a guy though. ^^7/12/2010 #35
And people try to tell me that all guys are hormonal uncontrollable beasts who are dying to have sex as soon as they're physically able to. LOL proof of that being not true here.
But yeah, sorry.7/12/2010 #36
It didn't sound like she was kidding to me. She put a lot of thought into what she wrote for someone who was kidding. Maybe she meant something else and she certainly seems to like yaoi. Plus yea...I agree that being on top is hard, especially when the guy is fucking lazy...7/12/2010 #37
"Haha sorry soojinyeh, I know this pair is not at all canon but I was poking fun at some fans who tried to make all kinds of pairing canon when there is not a shred of evidence in the manga."
That's what she said. Shrug.
I don't even try it anymore, no point.7/12/2010 #38
You know I recognize that she said that. What I'm saying is why would she write all that she wrote without saying at the end something along the lines of, "I'm just kidding. I don't really like this pairing," or something like, "By the way I don't think this pairing is canon, I was just making fun of people who thought it was." Why would she wait until you said something against it to be like, "I was just making fun of people who try to make all kinds of pairings canon when there's no evidence," unless maybe she was trying to appease you or something?
But maybe she really was just poking fun. If so, why would she come in here and indirectly make fun of this pairing. It doesn't seem very nice to me. Hopefully she can come back and clarify things. Anyways, I myself like this pairing but I don't think it's canon. I don't like it when people assume that everybody who is into pairings like this think it's canon. Of course we don't (at least I'm thinking most of us don't)! That wouldn't even make sense. As far as I know, the canon pairings are Inu/Kag, Inu/Kik, Sessh/Kagu, Mir/San, and maybe Kohaku/Rin.
I for one am fully aware that Rumiko Takahashi had no intention whatsoever in making her male characters bi or gay, nor did she the females. She is pro heterosexual, marry and reproduce like fleas all the way (I mean look at Miroku and Sango). But I don't know, Shrug. All of my points from my previous post still stands despite whether the person I was responding to meant what she was saying or not.7/14/2010 . Edited 7/14/2010 #39
I'd take Koh/Rin out of there lol. But I don't think she has anything against homosexual relationships, look at Jakotsu.
I always wondered why him and Bankotsu are like, the default couple in every fic when they're just brothers in the manga.7/14/2010 #40
The Sesshoumaru/Naraku fanfiction...well, there's a lot more out there than I would have imagined. And I'm guilty of reading some of them. *blushes* See, because they're usually not well-written, it's best to stay away from them. Unless anyone would like to correct me on that point (found any good yaoi stories?)...
But it's a pretty wild pairing, you have to agree. Awesome and sick, in a good way. :)7/14/2010 #41
I am very sorry about the confusion but I am not making fun of this pairing at all, Gaia Sky, please don't think that. I have a lot of respect for Rumiko's characters because as you said, they are very complex. What I meant was that I do believe in all I have written just not the canon part. I do think that there is some level of interest between Naraku and Sesshomaru in the manga but not in the yaoi sense of course.
I don't know Woozhing...I'm not saying you're right or wrong because I never read the entire manga. There was too much already finished by the time I was capable of doing so, but from what I can remember reading: Didn't Sesshoumaru's sword have some kind of power that would keep Naraku from being able to regenerate that he ended up using against Naraku which made it easier for Inuyasha and Kagome to defeat him?
Naraku lured Sesshomaru into his body by kidnapping Rin to kill Inuyasha because he still thought he could control him. But Sesshomaru had already acquired Baksuiga which meant he had learnt not to kill indiscriminately or the powerful sword would not have been given to him. Sesshomaru could not draw Baksuiga against Inuyasha just as Inuyasha could not kill him with Tetsuiga. Even when possessed, Inuyasha still deliberately missed Sesshomaru when unleashing the Meidou.
In the end both of them did weaken Naraku with their swords but Naraku had already merged with the Shikon Jewel to become invincible. It didn't matter even if they destroyed his whole body. Just as Kikyou told Inuyasha, Naraku could not be killed by a sword. So it had to be a sacred arrow from Kagome to defeat Naraku. Yeah, Rumiko is all about GIRL POWER!!!!
If this was the point you were making, I agree with you whole-heartedly. If more people would just try to understand what was really behind these characters behaviors and actions, maybe they would cut them more slack. A part of determining whether someone is "evil" or not is looking at the motives behind why they commit certain acts. That's why I like Sesshoumaru and Naraku as characters. They are way more complex than people make them out to be and I'm not just saying that because I like them. There are things that they have done that are wrong and I can admit that but again, a persons motives (and history) should definitely be considered, if that is even at all possible.
Yes, yes I meant all of that, Gaia Sky. Still it was sad that Naraku waited until the very end to merge with the jewel because he didn't want to lose his human heart and thus his unrequited love for Kikyou. Although as a half-demon, he had the capacity for love but he chose to show his evil side unlike Inuyasha.
While Sesshomaru as a full-fledged demon did not have the capacity for love but he learnt how to care for others with compassion. This was very clear in both Kagura's and Kikyou's death scenes. Sesshomaru just stood there compassionately while Kagura died whereas Inuyasha hugged and kissed Kikyou. So tragic that Kagura did not even get a hug. Rumiko really knew how to work the death scenes.
You know, actually there are...wait let me take that back...I discovered an author who writes nothing but Sesshoumaru as "uke" fics but you can judge for yourself whether his stories are good or not. The authors username is Pineapple55.
Thank you for your suggestion, I will surely look them up. I don't mind any kind of fan pairing but it just irks me when fans tried to justify them as 'canon'.7/15/2010 #42
I'd take Koh/Rin out of there lol. But I don't think she has anything against homosexual relationships, look at Jakotsu.
That's why I put a maybe with that pairing. I guess they wouldn't be canon 'cause it didn't seem to be anything going on between them like it was with the others. But maybe they have more of a foundation based on canon than maybe other non-canon pairings would have. Yea, maybe she doesn't have anything against homosexual relationships but I think she really seems to be more fond of heterosexual relationships and she mainly focuses on them. Her other manga's that I've heard of seem very hetero-centric. Also, I've heard somewhere, can't remember where, that Jakotsu was originally supposed to be a female but for some reason, at the last minute, they changed her into a him. Personally, I would have liked it if he stayed a female. I think that would have been interesting.
I am very sorry about the confusion but I am not making fun of this pairing at all, Gaia Sky, please don't think that.
It's okay. Everything's cool. I just didn't understand why you would write what you wrote if you didn't believe all of it.
Yeah, Rumiko is all about GIRL POWER!!!!
You seem to have a bit more knowledge regarding the manga than I do so I can't properly address all that you said. I will say this however. I hope this doesn't offend but I really think it's more "Kagome is a canon mary-sue" power than actual Girl Power. However, I'm still ambivalent about that conclusion. :)
While Sesshomaru as a full-fledged demon did not have the capacity for love but he learnt how to care for others with compassion.
You know Woozhing...if this was really what Rumiko Takahashi was suggesting; that Sesshoumaru had absolutely no capacity to love another being ever in his life and then when a few slightly unfortunate events occur in his life, he suddenly learns how to love...then that is utterly ridiculous. I know that this is a fantasy story and things aren't suppose to be too realistic and Sesshoumaru is a magical being (but still flesh and blood) and all...but really? Most creatures on this planet who have the ability to reason, form attachments, etc. also typically have some level of ability to love. Humans who lack the capacity to love are usually considered sociopaths. Yes, he's a different species from a human, but so are elephants, dogs, dolphins, wolves, etc.
They all still have the capacity to form attachments and to look out for their kin and sometimes even other species outside of their own. They all have bigger brains because they are mammals. Reptiles are not capable of forming attachments or doing things like caring for their young. They also have smaller brains. Do you see where I'm going with this? It wouldn't make any sense if Sesshoumaru couldn't love just because he was a yokai. Him suddenly learning how to love would make even less sense. Either you possess the capacity to love or you don't.
Whether because of biological or psychological reasons, this would make no sense. His father is obviously not incapable of love and seems to think like a human along with having the intelligence level of a human or higher and his mother doesn't seem to be incapable of love either and they are both full-blooded yokai. Kouga is also a full-blooded yokai. Where did this perception about Sesshoumaru come from anyway? He had to at least have an attachment to his mother, which would mean on some level, he loves her. Also, why does he allow Jaken to follow him everywhere? It's not like he needs him for anything significant...other than maybe companionship.
It seems more likely, at least in my opinion, that he did have the capacity to love but he was just racist and hated humans. My hypothesis is that it had something to do with his father having a baby by a human mother who wasn't his own mother. I'm sure that if Inuyasha was his full-blooded brother, with the same mother, Sesshoumaru wouldn't have had a problem with him. Sorry for the long rant.7/17/2010 #43
RT being about girl power I agree with, but I have to ask why you think Kagome is a Mary-Sue? I don't see anything that suggests that RT imagines herself as Kagome, is biased in favor of her, or uses her for wish fulfilment.7/17/2010 #44
You don't have to apologise for ranting, Gaia Sky, this is just a friendly discussion. You are obviously upset because you are a great fan of Sesshomaru and you don't want him to have a flawed personality. But Rumiko has certainly made clear that demons in the manga do not understand love in human terms. That is the reason Naraku hesitated to merge with the Shikon Jewel to become a full-fledged demon. He feared losing his human love for Kikyou.
Sesshomaru is certainly a highly-evolved demon who is very sensitive and emotional but he is unable to love like a human. Take his relationship with his mother. He didn't even know where she lived and only went looking for her because he wanted to know more about the meidou. I wouldn't call that a loving relationship, right? On the other hand, Inuyasha loved his dead mother deeply to the point it hurted whenever he thought about her.
As you said Inuyasha is a fairytale set in feudal times and it is not based on reality so why can't you accept that demons must learn how to love? It's like having pets, isn't it? An animal will not suddenly fall in love with a human unless it has been taken in as a pet but a human can fall in love with a little puppy and want it as a pet. It's like Shippou who certainly loved both Kagome and Inuyasha because he was adopted by them as a kid.
That's not to say that I think Sesshomaru cannot feel love but he rarely showed it first. The two persons he shown some feelings are the only two in the manga who loved him despite his bestiality. I know Sesshomaru fangirls like to think that every female in the manga is in lust/love with him but that is certainly not the case. Both Kagome and Sango did not show any romantic interest in him. Seriously why would a human female fall for an extremely tall demon with strange markings on his face, a fur pelt that is part of his body and the ability to change into a giant dog?
Jaken is his servant but I am not sure what Sesshomaru felt for him ... however I hope it's not love as the idea of Sesshomaru and Jaken engaged in yaoi activities is sometime I rather not think about.
Oh, I am with soojinyeh, Rumiko did not write Kagome as Mary Sue.7/17/2010 #45
Different species have ability to love. Any pet owner will tell you that. Animals definitely do sometimes get attached to humans without having been taken care of them (it depends on the individual), and demons can too, look at Koga. As far as demons go, they definitely can love, look at the other demons. Sesshomaru's just distant and guarded with his feelings, it's not that he can't love (you can see that with Rin and Kagura and Kohaku and Jaken and later Inuyasha, etc.). It has nothing to do with him being a demon, it's a matter of personality/upbringing/personal opinions. His relationship with his mother doesn't show that he doesn't love...it means that he doesn't have a loving relationship with her personally, not that he can't love.
Both Kagome and Sango did not show any romantic interest in him.
Right. Kikyo didn't either, neither did anyone but Kagura. But a disagree with you about a human girl not being able to fall for a big demon with markings, that's irrelevant. Izayoi was a human girl, but she fell for Sesshomaru's father, and he had all of those qualities. It's not impossible though.
If she's talking about how fanfic writers tend to turn her into a Mary Sue, I agree though.7/17/2010 #46
In response to your post Woozhing, I will start off by saying that soojinyeh already addressed some things I was thinking in regards to your post, so I won't be addressing those again in this post. As for everything else: Firstly, I think there has been a bit of a misunderstanding regarding my intentions and heart behind my post. I was not upset in the least...if anything, I was just flabbergasted because I've seen this concept about Sesshoumaru used in different fanfics and I have heard this concept a lot from Sesshoumaru fangirls.
It just really annoys me that's all (but it doesn't make me angry or enraged...it's really not that serious...there's a lot of other things tied into my annoyance with this but I won't get into them here). Also, just to let you know; I do see this as a friendly discussion or maybe even debate. I love to debate different points of view. It makes things more engaging and thought provoking...and fun.
Another thing is that I do like Sesshoumaru, but I don't agree with your insinuation that I am a rabid fangirl and that I am a, "great fan of his and don't want him to have a flawed personality." Did you miss the part of my post where I called him a "Racist" who hated humans? If anything, my analogy makes his character seem worse. That would mean that instead of him being incapable of love based on something he cannot control, his biological and physiological make-up; he would instead be incapable of love based on something he can control and change...his character. So basically, it's totally his choice and responsibility for being a hateful bastard to Inuyasha, who is a hanyou and not something that isn't his fault based on his DNA.
Also, as I stated earlier, soojinyeh already dealt with some of the issues I had with your post and I believe that a lot of your points were very faulty. She also addressed your point about Kagome and Sango not being in love with Sesshoumaru. All I'll say to this is that I hope that you don't think that I see Sesshoumaru as some sex god who can get any woman (or man) that he wants. That's like putting words in my mouth. Again, I'm not in love with Sesshoumaru like that.
I don't worship anything, not a celebrity and not a cartoon character because I think that is just plain immature and retarded. But I do have plenty of celebrities and fictional characters that I like and may be attracted to. Also, this whole thing with Jaken and Sesshoumaru...of course I wasn't implying that Sesshoumaru and Jaken loved each other in a romantic way...I thought we settled this thing about me seeing IY yaoi fanfiction pairings as canon. I don't. He has been known to, in his own way, protect Jaken.
Why would you protect someone or something that you don't at least have some form of attachment to. I mean you could be attached to property but I don't think Sesshoumaru see's Jaken as such (I also hate it when people hate on Jaken so much and demean him in fanfics in a way that wasn't done in the manga and/or anime...every character in Inuyasha I'm sure has some importance...they need to stop that). Lastly, I'd like to point out a few mistakes you made in your post.
Inuyasha loved his dead mother deeply to the point it hurted whenever he thought about her.
It's "hurt" not "hurted" and you missed "so" between "mother" and "deeply."
The two persons he shown some feelings are the only two in the manga who loved him despite his bestiality.
It would have been better if you wrote it like this: "The two people that he showed some feelings for are the only two people in the..." you get the rest. Also, I think you used the word "bestiality" in the wrong context. This word means something completely different that I won't get into here. Just look it up if you'd like to know...not trying to be vindictive with all of this or a grammar-nazi, but these mistakes seemed too glaring for me to leave alone. You can dismiss my corrections if you'd like.
Soojinyeh, I don't know if Kagome being a Mary-sue is accurate or not. The thing about her having all of these guys chasing after her seems strange to me. I don't know...I don't feel really strongly about trying to make her out to be a Mary-sue. I just don't like her as much as I like all of the other characters. They have all suffered some kind of serious loss or they have been through something very serious that I can sympathize with. Their suffering seems genuine and not as shallow as Kagome's. Her suffering over Inuyasha being in love with Kikyou just doesn't resinate with me for some reason.
I truly believe that if Naraku never existed and the whole thing with Onigumo never occured; they would have spent the rest of their lives together and I feel so much compassion for Kikyou because the happiness she could have had was unjustly stolen from her and then Kagome has her nerve to be mad because Inuyasha is still in love with Kikyou. She hasn't went through anything nearly as serious as what Kikyou has been through although I understand that maybe she is human and can't help feeling the way that she does.
Also, as far as her optimism is concerned; she is so optimistic because she hasn't had to endure anything very serious in her life so it comes naturally for her. But you know...when I really think about it, Kagome is Kikyou's reincarnation, so maybe Kikyou finally gets to have her happy life as Kagome, I don't know. Anyways, I hope this gives you some insight into why I'm not the fondest of Kagome (though I don't hate her by any means).7/18/2010 . Edited 7/18/2010 #47
She has guys chasing after her, but Inuyasha has two girls and a man chasing after him as well, and Miroku has three girls chasing after him, and if we count filler characters... I'd honestly agree if she was a special case but she isn't. Rumiko does that all the time with her characters, she just likes love triangles (in Ranma each character has like, four love interests). That's how she writes tension I guess. I agree her problems receive too much focus especially as they're not as big as everyone else's, but I feel like that has more to do with her being the main character and being part of the love triangle which is one of the most important aspects of the plot. Main characters/main plot points always get the spotlight.
I don't care about you disliking Kagome, I just didn't understand the Mary-Sue thing.7/18/2010 #48
Dear Gaia Sky, please don't be mad because I am just having fun here. I am not really, honestly saying you are a 'rabid fangirl' (I hardly ever call anyone names :D), just that you like Sesshomaru alot which is cool. I wonder why most of the people I am having discussion with in forums almost always go for the grammar not the points I am making even though they do understand why I am writing about? Rhetorical question, no need to answer.
Please understand I am no great authority on demons, I am only commenting on the demons as depicted in Rumiko's manga, Inuyasha. She did make one of them say that demons do not understand human love and that Naraku becoming a demon would mean losing his human love for Kikyou. I didn't make all that up just because I believe that demons if they exist cannot love like humans.
For the purpose of her story Rumiko wanted a world where demons are not as compassionate as humans and Sesshomaru being a demon must learn to be compassionate before he can wield a powerful sword. I believe there is a subtext to it which is tied to Japan's past military history and prejudice against other races. It reminds me of a lot of works by my favourite author, Kazuo Ishiguro, and that is why I have been fascinated by Inuyasha the manga but I also enjoy it as pure pop enjoyment as well. So maybe that's why my interpretation of Inuyasha is so different.
With human females not being attracted to Sesshomaru romantically, I am basing it on feudal times where humans, although living beside demons, mostly fear demons and their strange appearance. There are of course exceptions to the rule but if we have to debate on exceptions then we can debate until the cows come home and we are still none the wiser.
One cannot say for sure that Inuyasha's mother fell in love with his father or vice versa because Rumiko never really give any hint of a love story between them. They are never pictured together in the manga and Inuyasha's mother did not seem very proud to have given birth to a son who is half-demon which would have been the case if she was deeply in love with his father.
There is a little evidence that Inuyasha's father might be aware of the important role Inuyasha will have to play against the Shikon Jewel since he left the Meidou stone with Sesshomaru's mother so that Sesshomaru could master the technique in order to pass it on to Inuyasha who needed it to defeat the jewel. So it could be that his father deliberately fathered Inuyasha as only a strong hanyou could get rid of the evil jewel. I know this is only a rather wild supposition of mine so don't get upset if you disagree okay?
I will stop here because it's really out of context in a thread for the lovely going-ons between Sesshomaru and Naraku which I thoroughly approve of.7/19/2010 #49
Dear Woozhing, I am not mad at you in the least and as I've been trying to point out, I never have been. I am simply expressing my opinion/s. Sometimes I may strongly disagree with someone elses opinion or not agree that their opinion is fact but that does not mean I'm angry at them because of that. I don't like being falsely accused of something that isn't true, so I attempted to correct your false assumptions about my intentions and how I perceive Sesshoumaru. When it comes to correcting your grammar, please don't compare me with others. I have never corrected anyone's grammar even one time since I've been on FFN even when I heavily disagreed with what they were saying.
I don't need to resort to petty tricks and underhanded condescension just to put someone down because they have gotten the upper hand in a discussion. I corrected your post simply because I was trying to help, not to be vindictive. Also, as far as I'm aware I did address the points you were making.
I hope that you understand that Japanese "demons" are different from Christian "demons" and so are the mythologies behind these concepts. The Japanese refer to creatures like Sesshoumaru and Kouga as "Yokai," and I honestly believe that "monster" would be a better translation of the word just to avoid any confusion with Christian "demons." Also, in your earlier posts, you never mentioned anything about Sesshoumaru being less compassionate than a human. You stated that he was incapable of love because he was a yokai. That is a totally different thing all together. The reason why we got into this discussion in the first place was because you stated that Sesshoumaru was incapable of love because he was a yokai. I'm still not convinced that that was what Rumiko intended in her manga but my original point, was that if that was what she intended, it still makes no sense.
Whether a demon anywhere in the manga or anime said that yokai do not understand human love or not (where is that exactly and what context is this character saying this in); there are still examples of yokai exhibiting different forms of what we as humans call, "love" in the manga and anime. Your points regarding Inu no Taisho and Izayoi along with a couple of other things are just assumptions and completely irrelevant. If Inu no Taisho didn't love his sons for instance; why would he make it so that they couldn't hurt each other with the swords he gave them? Protecting someone is a form of loving someone.
You know as far as Izayoi and Inu no Taisho are concerned; it is possible that they never fell in love and that Inu no Taisho just banged her for kicks or something. Either way, your original point of, "Why would a human female be into a yokai," is still faulty because whether Izayoi loved Inu no Taisho or not; she still became impregnated by him before eventually having his baby along with keeping him alive (if she was so ashamed of Inuyasha, why didn't she just kill 'it' or hand 'it' over to Sesshoumaru so that he could finish 'it' off? He would have been more than happy to do so, I'm sure).
Also, unless Inuyasha's father raped his mother, more than likely, they had sex which would lead to the conclusion that Izayoi, even if she wasn't in love with Inu no Taisho, was at least in lust with him. Some examples in other mythologies of otherworldly creatures or beings sleeping with human females are; in Christianity with angels coming down and impregnating human females; in greek mythology with various gods impregnating human females; and vampires seducing human females. This isn't a far fetched idea.
Soojinyeh, everything you bring up regarding Kagome makes sense and maybe she's not a Marysue and it's not that I hate her with a burning passion like some people do. I just have a slight dislike of her for reasons that are hard to explain, I guess.7/20/2010 #50
I see. At least there was no slut-shaming there, lol.7/20/2010 #51
Okay this pairing makes no sense. Sess is trying to kill Nar. And personality wise, I don't see it. Besides I hate yoai and yuri, but I have plenty of other reasons not to like this pair. I see Nar/Kik is more plausible and with Sess, Sess/Rin all the way. I see Sess/Rin as the only Sess (or Rin) pairing that makes sense.3/29/2011 #52
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