Reviews for no halo, an' one wing in the fire
Rokhal chapter 7 . 11/4/2009
Do you realize how absurd it is to dispute creative property in *fanfiction*?

sela117 chapter 8 . 11/4/2009
Bringing all these different characters together like this shouldn't work, but somehow it does and I'm on the edge of my seat waiting to see what is going to happen. It's like LaGrange's tent is a black hole, and everything is getting pulled to it, and I get the feeling that it's going to go supernova really soon.

Tribble Master chapter 1 . 11/1/2009
I'm really really really confused, but I'm also in awe of this amazing writing. it's exclent. i think my favorite part is comparing deandorian gray. that was brilliant. also the tittle is great imagry to start off with. write on!
TheKritty chapter 7 . 10/30/2009
Oh guys. I know that it's hard for an author to see some things in other stories that are completely similar to things in own stories but come on!All things are stolen from somewhere, we don't even know that we're steeling 're just in our head! And I like both stories - in fact, I found this story, silver ruffian, and thought that I alread knew it, but was too busy actually reading the story that I didn't think of the fact that I might have stumbled over a story like this before (I haven't read both stories from the beginning, u know).I like both stories and I don't know you two personally but I DON'T think that one of you actually STOLE it. And I'm German, okay, English isn't my mother language, but from what I understood I am sure that Zatnikate wasn't picking a fight. Please, lets not fight, just keep writing and lets see how your stories work it positive: there are two authors who thingk same things and have similiar ideas of interprating the Bender episode and mixing the Supernatural verse with the Bender I'm sure that the ends are not gonna be the are also some wquite big writings style for one. So, lets not fight and keep . I wanna read the next chaoter!

vengeance71 chapter 6 . 10/29/2009
Hey I've read both stories and I like both. Not gonna get in the middle of that. So, I like your story and hope that you will update soon. I'm really into the Multiple Personality Dean right now.
Cricket24 chapter 7 . 10/26/2009
New commenter here and fellow fanfiction writer. I'd just like to say that I find the great fuss over someone being accused of "stealing" ideas from other fanfiction to be quite hypocritical. After all, bottom line, aren't ALL FANFICTION IDEAS AND CHARACTERS stolen from the very show in which you are a fan of? Think about it.

Anyway, that's beside the point. I've read both this story and The Woods are Lonely, Dark and Deep by Zatnikatel and beside the fact that they both involve Dean being kidnapped by the Benders and both involve the name Gabriel, THERE IS NO OTHER SIMILARITIES BETWEEN THE TWO STORIES. Coincidence happens. There are tens of thousands of Supernatural fanfictions written all over the net. I find similar stories written about the same characters all the time. Do I immediately think that one author has "stolen" ideas from another? No. It's just a lot of authors like to read/write about the same things and there will be times that character names and ideas will pop up in different stories. Accusing someone of stealing a name or an idea simply because it is similar to your own is very bold, very hasty and, as I said earlier when dealing with fanfiction, quite hypocritical.

I've only read this particular story of yours but I see that you've written 100 stories on this site. From comments I've read on this particular story, it seems that you are a very good writer. But this public spectacle (which I realize wasn't public at first, but made to be that way because it was the ONLY way Zat could defend herself) of throwing accusations at someone and not letting them defend themselves (which they shouldn't have to anyway) seems quite childish and not at all professional or productive. But that's just my opinion.

One thing we can agree on is that all of the readers need to check out BOTH stories and decide for themselves if her story deserves the slander you've brought upon it. I'm confident in saying that most - if not all - readers will see the originality and engaging storytelling that Zatnikatel has brought forth in The Woods are Lonely, Dark and Deep. Woods has been recced several times on different sites and has been a fan favorite of many Supernatural enthusiasts. It is, quite frankly, one of THE BEST fanfiction stories I have ever read. Period.

I realize that Zat has not written as many stories as yourself, and yes, perhaps she has not gotten as many reviews for her stories - yet, because she's not as well known. Does that automatically make her writing inferior to yours? Absolutely not. Does that automatically make her an "idea stealer"? Again, no. There are so many holes in your argument against her and such an air of superiority to your author's note that I find it difficult to feel any sort of sympathy or even understanding of what or why exactly you feel wronged in this matter.

I find it sad that this could not have been reconciled privately simply because you refused to even let Zat PM you. But since it has been publicized, I feel the need to defend Zat and her story because I want other readers to know that if they pass up the chance to actually read it, they'd be doing themselves a great disservice. Long-time readers of your fics loyalty to you and your writing is great, but just taking your word for it that her story/ideas were "stolen" from you and not taking the time to READ it and actually decide for themselves before they denounce Zat's credibility as a writer is simply wrong, IMO.

This is all just fanfiction, people. Enjoy it for what it is and be glad that we all share the same passion for writing it and the same love of reading it.
suz mc chapter 7 . 10/26/2009
Okay, since this chapter/comment thing came up, I've tried to ignore it but it's caused some upset in the community and I think there is a huge lesson to be learned here. If you communicate with someone, accuse or question them, allow them to respond privately or they are going to become so upset that a public response is the only option.

I went in and read No Halo and seriously, the Woods series and your story are completely different concepts. Both are interesting and have valid points of view and things to say. All episode tags will have a similar birthplace so there may be things that are along the same vein, but they take off into different directions. Woods feeds directly from the end of the episode. Your fic is AU and completely changes the way the Benders came in contact with the Winchesters. The name thing, is strictly a coincidence. People have connections with names and bring them to fanfiction. In my au, I have a child named Emily Winchester. Not too long ago, I came across another using that same name for a Winchester child. Didn't swipe it from her and she didn't swipe it from me either. That's really the only thing that remotely seems similar to me in these stories. You said yourself, none of us fanfiction writers have locks on names or anything else because it's not copyrighted material. I think that maybe if you two had talked PRIVATELY then this would have been worked out and neither one of you would be feeling so upset at this point and airing it all out here.

I've worked with Zat for the past few months and we've been sounding boards for each other with our current projects. Honestly, I've watched her story evolved and change as she struggled to tell a story that is based on the concept of brothers that was presented in the first season. Hudak has become a fully fleshed out character and the way she set the story in motion by refusing to give the boys a ride back to town is what starts all the events rolling downhill. It's her idea, folks. Just like your idea, Silver, is yours. Independent. Separate. Not stolen.

What I think this is is a big misunderstanding that could have been settled privately without a bunch of ladies getting all worked up and mad. Why don't the two of you just talk this over privately?
pronto chapter 7 . 10/26/2009
I have read and enjoyed your stories as and when I see them as I don't read here very much, but I hadn't ever commented before now because I was not registered here.

I saw that you had updated and read this 'new chapter' last night. I then happened to see a couple of very heartfelt comments here from someone called Winchester 66 urging your readers to give the other stories you feel have copied yours a chance. I decided that I would although I fully expected to read a carbon copy of yours, and fully expected to come back here to beat the drum on your behalf.

I am so glad that I did give the other story a chance. I read it through in one sitting, staying up until 2am, and I intend reading the sequel today. The story is amazing - and nothing like yours in any way save for the coincidences you and the other writer both refer to. Yours was started first - which the other writer doesn't deny. But I don't see how this can really back up your allegation that she stole her ideas from you, since, as she quite rightly points out, there are other Benders stories that were written before yours and which also have Dean being kidnapped and tortured/abused. I read some myself back when the episode first aired. So if you wrote yours after those, I'm afraid your argument just suggests that you stole your idea from those writers.

And also of course there is the simple and undeniable fact that her story is totally different from yours, with a totally different plot, totally different events unfolding, and totally different characters apart from Sam, Dean and Bobby. Have you actually read the story? If you had you would have seen this and perhaps not been so hasty as to accuse her of stealing the ideas. It was rather spiteful to do that and not give her the chance to discuss it with you and if she has been nursing any kind of grudge well - I don't blame her.

From the other comments here from Winchester 66 I get the impression you have said the other writer should have emailed you to ask for permission to use the characters and plot... but like Winchester 66 I don't quite get why you would expect that. The characters are not yours and neither are any fanfiction ideas that may jump from them and you actually have said as much in your comment.

These ideas seem to crop up again and again in this fandom. For example, I have just this morning read your new story in which you feature a half-naked Dean. How many stories have I read that include a half-naked Dean? Many. Did you ask all of those writers for permission to use half-naked Dean?

I really don't think any allegation of stealing ideas holds up. And the other writer has actually credited one of her reviewers (Nogpardu, as far as I can remember) for giving her the plotbunny for the sequel, which further suggests that you are taking credit where none is due.

I will continue to read and hopefully enjoy your stories. Like Winchester 66 I would suggest that anyone who reads this does read the other story(ies). It will be so worth your while if you admire skilled storytelling, excellent writing and heartstopping cliffhangers.

And... I think you really should consider withdrawing your comment (although you sound extremely combative so I don't expect you to actually take this advice) because as you say, the stories speak for themselves and like me, people are going to go straight to the other story, which isn't going to create a good impression of you. There is no comparison because the other story is among the best SPN stories I have read.
Elfishme chapter 7 . 10/25/2009
All i have to say is wow.

Silver Ruffian is deffinatly not the ones whos copying.

the proof is by the dates the stories were created.

some people *shakes head*

love the story Silver Ruffian!
winchester66 chapter 2 . 10/25/2009
You are welcome for the review count although anyone who reads my comments will of course see that they are not reviews. No, I am not a writer, but I can imagine how reviews are appreciated when a story does not seem to be getting many.

According to the message I am getting pms are not enabled for 24 hours so this means I cannot reply to you that way – I am sorry.

You say in your email back to me 'It is common courtesy, even among fan fiction writers, to ask permission from other fan fiction writers to use names or details. It's a common practice, nothing new or mysterious, it's just good manners. Now, if you have never written anything, you wouldn't know that, now would you?'

No I would not know this and yes I reiterate to anyone reading this that I am not a writer, just a reader. But the fact the names and details are not actually borrowed from you is a factor, yes? Why would this writer have to ask your permission to use this name? Again, did you email the other writers who wrote Benders tags before you did to ask for their permission? It makes no sense especially as, again, your statement says this: 'I don’t have a lock on Gabriel or the Benders and neither does Zatnikatel. This is fanfiction, not copyrighted characters.'

So I am sorry but I am still having difficulty understanding why she would need to email you to ask permission? And as you say you are a writer, does it not mean that you should know how upsetting it must have been for her to be accused in this way and then not able to get back to you about it? Perhaps you should think more about how you would feel if someone did this to you? If someone perhaps said the only reason you are now updating your story is because you were inspired by the fact that the other stories are complete and are very good and well written stories? Perhaps that is why you chose to continue the story having left it to lie for such a long time, who knows. I expect you will not be very happy at that suggestion.

It seems you still are saying she has invented this detail about her son? 'I have encountered people who will lie, who will swear on the graves of dead relatives that they are telling the truth. This is no different. I call it a play for sympathy. If that shocks you, so be it.'

This is very cynical and I am sorry you would feel that way.

You says she should have contacted you back then but again you did not let her do this because you blocked her. It seems that it really has taken her this long to work up to a point where she would do it like this, although it would seem apparent from her message to you that it really did only just occur to her to approach you this way. I am sure you will express doubts.

I see that I am not going to change your mind although that was not my intention. I just hoped to make you think about it. But I feel I have overstepped the mark as the writer has contacted me over at LJ to ask me not to pursue this with you. As you say (and she also says) the stories will speak for the themselves.
winchester66 chapter 1 . 10/25/2009
Thank you for your reply but it seems I am not able to respond to you - pm is not enabled?

It seems to me that she made it clear in when she made the author comment at the time she was aware that your story was published first and that there were coincidences. it seems she has not tried to conceal this and that since the stories are so different perhaps you accusation was rash? It seems apparent from comments on her LJ at the time you first emailed her to accuse you of stealing these story ideas from you that she was not aware your story existed. She seems genuinely bewildered and upset and please if anyone is reading this do go to see.

I do not see how your point about other people should email you to ask for permission to use details from you stories is relevant since it is clear she was not using your characters - in in her stories they are nothing like yours and the stories are very different. So I am not any the wiser from your reply.

I have read other Benders tags that had Dean being kidnapped so did those writers email you and ask for permission to use this idea? Did you email the writers who wrote their stories before yours to ask for their permission? As you say these characters belong to Erick Kripke not you. So why does this mean that anyone would need to ask your permission? Again, in your statement you say you do not own the name or the ideas - but actually you are in some ways implying you do, I think. Again I have trouble understanding this because she has not used your characters.

And yes perhaps she was rash to follow up but the fact she has left it for so long does seem to back up her claim that she did think about it for some time, yes?.

Maybe you should just have done this privately at the time so this would not happen. You say you did not want to do this in the public arena and wanted to keep it quiet but maybe you should not have stopped her from contacting you? I am afraid that does puzzle me. I can understand why she might have followed up acutally and I think it shows restraint that she did not name you at the time since I also know she was very upset about it from comments on her LJ.

I hope that people reading this will give her stories a chance. They are not copied from your ideas.

It seems to me you have both acted rashly… you for accusing her in the firt place without letting her respond (and I note in your message back to me you say 'Everyone who disagrees with me or what I write are welcome to come on here.' but you did not let her do that really did you? You blocked her from doing that).

And yes she should have maybe not followed up. but I really don't think you can fairly accuse her of stealing these ideas. as you say the stories should stand for themsleves and i don]t see how the work she has done can be compared to your story. I hope people will give her a chance in this matter.

Re her son - 'I said it, and I do not apologize for that remark. This being the internet, people can say whatever they want to, and how can you check? '

I hope you are not suggesting that she made this up? that is really appalling. People with children do not make up things like that. People who have lost children do not make up things like that.
winchester66 chapter 7 . 10/25/2009
This is odd.

Thing is, I have read both stories - yours some time ago - and just saw this update pop up so I thought i'd give it another try since I had seen Z's comment about your accusation of stealing on her LJ when she posted it a few weeks ago and knew at the time that it must be you who emailed her.

I honestly see no similarities between these stories and I don't really think anyone that goes from your story to hers will either once they actually get into it (and if anyone is reading this comment you should go to read the other stories because the proof is all there) The content and the characters are totally different. The stories are totally different. The same aspects that exist in both, well - seems like a coincidence to me since the stories themselves are so different. In yours Dean is kidnapped when he is a child as far as I remember. You also have characters that do not feature at all in the other story (hendricks, yes? John?).

I was mystified that you emailed her about it at the time and it seems some other people who read her story and knew yours too also were surprised. You might be interested to know that her beta for this story posted a comment in her LJ talking about how they both hammered the story out although I suppose you then might want to accuse her beta of stealing from you too?

She didn't name you in her LJ comment or here on ff as far as I know and i note her private message to you today suggested that she might. I don't know if she would have done so or not - she has just answered a comment I left on her LJ saying she probably would not have because she had wanted to address this with you privately. The message you have included in your statement also makes it seem clear that she would prefer to have tackled this privately.

I must say it seems strange to me that you did not allow her to do this privately? It seems very suspect and actually cowardly to accuse her and then stop her from defending herslef? i see you already have a comment from someone saying it is a shame that Z has 'stirred up trouble' but it does seem to me that maybe t was actually you who did that by accusing her, don't you think, and then not letting her respond?. It is embarrasing for you both i suppose but i don't see her as being at fault- i guess like you say people can go read the other stories and see for themselves that they are very different and you know maybe that is not going to reflect well on you?

This is just all very odd especially as you say in your statement that she and you both can use these characters and ideas as you want to - so why did you email her in the first place? that doesn't really make sense, surely?

and you know I have to say this- that is a really low blow about her son.

I have no doubt you will attack me now so by all means do though i do not have any stories for you to attack and am very happy to state upfront that i only just registered here to respond to this.
dnachemlia chapter 7 . 10/25/2009
You're a much better writer. That's the big difference between the two stories.
angelcat70 chapter 7 . 10/25/2009
Just wanted to say you are one of my favorite authors and look forward to each and every update. Its disheartening that another author is trying to stir up trouble but here's hoping that it doesn't get you down or prevent you from continuing your awesome stories. Thanks for doing what you do so well and looking forward to more from you incredible talent.
PADavis chapter 6 . 10/12/2009
Yowza. That was a brutal chapter. Have to go hide in a corner now.

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