Reviews for All Apologies
enrjy2xs chapter 1 . 3/18/2008
A fairly good little piece of fan fiction.

However, I must say that it's really too bad that reviewers like RiverChild "dont get" why the completely inappropriate use of words such as "mistake" is, in fact, a very "big deal".

But that just verifies the main point of so many other reviwers. ie. Words such as "mistake" have been so ill-used that there are people who don't even understand the importance of using such words correctly. Amazingly enough, they "don't get" it.

Really sad.

"Mistake" and "screw up" mean the same thing... and both are completely and utterly wrong.

Try to get it. Really.

Like I said, the fic is fairly good. I tend to agree that the "death" thing is really over done, in general, but it's an interesting little piece. Not bad.

Really try to use your words correctly though. Really try.

:)
RiverChild7 chapter 1 . 1/30/2008
I don't get why this (the reviews) have evolved into some huge debate about the meaning of 'mistake'. Ok, big deal. Maybe you should have said 'all humans screw up'. Honestly,it's not a big deal.

I really liked this was short but sweet and I liked the ending...and the whole thing with her parents. Seems like she didn't like them much. Good story. :)
Oberon3 chapter 1 . 1/21/2008
Pretty good. Overall a nice effort. I think the death thing is overdone... but I do have to say that it kind of works for this little piece.

Also, Kimmerkayy is absolutely correct. Well stated... and it IS important. Very important.

Anyway, well done.
Kimmerkayy chapter 1 . 9/30/2007
Hi. Let's get something straight. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being concerned about using correct words. It is actually very important. If more people would accept that reality and choose words more carefully... in writing and in speaking... we would all be better off.

And for the record... the only ones who exhibit any "venom" are those who try frenetically to tell everyone that it's ridiculous to even be talking about it. Hm.

Those who simply explained their concerns about using the wrong word... were not "venomous" at all.

Yes, "mistaken" and "wrong" are given as synonyms. Of course. No shock there. Guess what that means? It means that in certain contexts they can have SIMILAR meanings... but NOT the same meaning. They are not the same. They cannot simply be used interchangeably.

The word "mistake" always refers to something that was done INADVERTENTLY in some manner. This is a very important distinction.

So to that person(s)... (your tone seems to indicate that you are indeed the author... but it doesn't matter)... it would be best if you, as you so eruditely express it, kindly got off your own high horse and stopped talking out of your own ass (just try to do that at the same time)... instead of telling others to do so... because you have only demonstrated that you are not willing to take the time to understand these expressions of concern... and so you don't have anything to add to the discussion.

To declare that concern for proper discussion is actually only some kind of "hatred" for a character... is absolutely absurd and clearly and completely refuted by everything these intelligent reviewers have written. Try reading their reviews again. There is no character hatred or any other kind of hatred. So don't be so blithely and irrationally insulting to nice and decent reviewers. That's shameful.

Actually read the reviews... and learn something. Some people have been nice enough to take the time to give some genuine thoughtful words of wisdom. They have a lot to offer. Maybe try to appreciate it just a little.

No, it is not an "error in judgment" to do something that one knows is very wrong... no matter what the "circumstances". It is not a "mistake". It is bad behaviour.

It is not an "error in judgment" since we know full well that it is wrong. So that term "error in judgment" simply does not apply... even though it is commonly used by people who want to try to diminish the severity of the act and/or their own guilt. That is self-serving... but it is absolutely not correct.

As another reviewer so correctly stated it:

It is not an error in judgment. We are not making an "error" in somehow judging it to be a good thing. Hardly. We know that it is wrong. We choose to do it anyway.

It is not a "mistake". It is bad behaviour.

Use the right words.

Yes... it does matter. Very much.

Good luck with future writing. Nice attempt here, really, but just try to choose all your words with care. People would not be taking the time to try to tell you this if it did not really matter... obviously.

It does matter.

Take care.
Reviewer chapter 1 . 9/30/2007
Wow, it's amazing to see how one one-shot can cause such a range of emotion and drama.

The whole Sandy situation as I see it, is up to interpretation. We don't, and probably never will, understand the circumstances with which Sandy got pregnant and there is a large range of hypothesises in which Sandy was not 'evil'

For example, let's start with the angstiest, she could have been attacked, she might have made a drunken error of judgement...or in other words, a mistake, or what if it was Soda's and she tried to protect him from further responsibility that could jeopardise his family's future by leaving. This is just the tip of an iceberg in ideas as to why Sandy left and got pregnant, etc. So there is actually no true canon facts about what happened except for what Sandy tells Soda/Darry relays to Ponyboy and the fact her parents send her to Florida, etc. Oh, and all this concern over one word 'mistake' and whether it misleads readers is a little extreme in my eyes. I personally didn't feel misled in the use of the term 'mistake'. Maybe it wasn't the best word to use but it wasn't really grammatically incorrect.

Okay, now we're done with this issue, onto the actual review itself. Because that is what this reviewing feature is for, feedback on a story, not the Sandy hatred, yeah?

I liked the fic, the use of italics was interesting and you conveyed strong emotion in a short space. The style itself was pretty different to the fics I usually read on here. It's also great to see different perceptions of Sandy's character :) Good job.
Dawn chapter 1 . 9/30/2007
To spend this much venom debating the word choice in an author's note - which isn't even part of the story! - is ridiculous. It's also ridiculous to state your opinion as fact, then to mock those who don't agree with you.

Let's quit talking out of our asses and look at the etymology of the two words.

Okay - if you look below, I have kindly included the definations and synomyns so you can follow along. If you look at the definations, you will see some of the definitions are similar - not the same! - but similar.

More interesting is the synonyms. They share a few and "mistaken" is even used as a synonym for "wrong." Interesting!

Does that mean with casual word choice that they might be used interchangeably in some cases where the context is similar? They might!

So get off your high horse of the word choice in the author's note. Could there have been a better, clearer choice? Yes, but the choice that was made doesn't mean the sentance is completely incorrect. (Yes, I just used a synonym for wrong! Aren't synonyms fun?)

What is clear here is that you have serious hate for a minor fictional character (Sandy), and that, to me, is just sad.

mis*take (mi-steyk) noun, verb, -took, -tak*en, -tak*ing, noun

1. an error in action, calculation, opinion or judgment caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge, etc.

2. a misunderstanding or misconception

- verb (used with an object)

3. to regard or identify wrongly as something or someone else

4. to understand, interpret or evaluate wrongly; misunderstand; misinterpret

- verb (used with out an object)

5. to be in error

—Synonyms

inaccuracy, erratum, fault, oversight.

Mistake, blunder, error, slip refer to deviations from right, accuracy, correctness, or truth.

A mistake, grave or trivial, is caused by bad judgment or a disregard of rule or principle.

A blunder is a careless, stupid, or gross mistake in action or speech, suggesting awkwardness, heedlessness, or ignorance.

An error (often interchanged with mistake) is an unintentional wandering or deviation from accuracy, or right conduct.

A slip is usually a minor mistake made through haste or carelessness: a slip of the tongue.

Also: misconceive, misjudge, err.

wrong (rawng, rong) - adjective

1. not in accordance with what is morally right or good

2. deviating from truth or fact; erroneous

3. not correct in action, judgment, opinion, method, etc.

4. not proper or usual; not in accordance with requirements or recommended practice

5. out of order; awry; amiss

6. not suitable or appropriate

7. (of clothing) that should be worn or kept inward or under

–noun

8. that which is wrong, or not in accordance with morality, goodness, or truth

9. an injustice

10. Law. a. an invasion of another's right, to his damage

b. a tort

–adverb

11. in a wrong manner; not rightly; awry; amiss

–verb (used with object)

12. to do wrong to; treat unfairly or unjustly; harm

13. to impute evil to (someone) unjustly; malign

—Synonyms bad, evil, wicked, sinful, immoral, iniquitous, reprehensible, crooked inaccurate, incorrect, false, untrue, mistaken. improper, unsuitable, misdoing, wickedness, sin, vice maltreat, abuse, oppress, cheat, defraud, dishonor
Acidia-Leah chapter 1 . 9/30/2007
Not bad. It was okay... personally I wouldn't choose to kill off Soda or anyone else... since, given the level of tragedy that has already occurred, I just find any further death quite ridiculous... but in this case, it happens to work quite well with the piece.

I agree with 'mars' that in reality Soda was not really the 'knight in shining armor' as Pony somewhat tends to see him... and it's not realistic to try to portray him that way. It's important to avoid buying into that kind of teeny-bopper-level version of him (or any other character) when writing fan fiction. I think it's unfortunate that many people read the novel when they are just a bit too young to really 'get' it... and they seem to think that the words of a traumatized recently orphaned just-turned-fourteen-year-old are meant to be taken as absolute fact. A slightly more mature reading of the novel reveals of course that Pony's descriptions are in part a result of his own less-than-accurate understanding and appreciation of the full reality of things. Soda indeed has many flaws... and these flaws often add to the already extensive burden that Darry carries every day. Darry, of course, is also much different in reality from how Pony initially chooses to perceive him and portray him. He is a very profound figure with various facets to his life and character... most of which are hinted at, rather than fully explained, throughout the story. Pony himself only begins to appreciate this towards the end of the book... but the reader can appreciate this much earlier and much better.

Anyway, it seems that I have gotten a bit off topic.

I must say that I don't think it's accurate to say that people are "pissing over an author's note"... since I see no evidence of this. Rather, I think it is a matter of a certain principle that people have taken the time to examine and explain because they think it is very important... and upon consideration I would tend to agree.

Also, I think everybody DID review the actual story as well... so I don't see that as a problem. No one said the fic itself was terrible or without any merit at all. In fact, I found it nice to see that reviewers have indeed taken the time to separate the two issues.

Now... saying that the use of "mistake" is correct because it could mean an "error in judgment" is not a valid argument... since "error in judgment" is also incorrect.

We all make errors in judgment every day. We all make mistakes every day. Call it what you will. But this is not the same thing as willfully committing an act one knows (and everyone knows) to be utterly wrong.

As I believe another reviewer explained... an act such as cheating on someone requires a lot more than an "error in judgment" otherwise we would all be falling into bed with various people day and night... since we are all making errors in judgment every single day. Rather, an act such as cheating requires a conscious decision to do something that we know is utterly wrong... for reasons that are selfishly more important to us (at least at that moment) than doing the right thing. It is a conscious choice to do something wrong. It is not a "mistake". It is something that we actively decide to do even though we know better and could stop ourselves from doing if we wanted to...

It is not an "error in judgment" since we know full well that it is wrong. We are not making an "error" in somehow judging it to be a good thing. Hardly. We know that it is wrong. We choose to do it anyway. It is not a "mistake". It is simply bad behaviour.

We need to acknowledge that.

All of that being said... it is certainly quite valid to write one's perception of Sandy's possible thoughts, feeling, musings, general experience... Does she regret it? Does she accept the consequences? Does she try to blame others? Is she honest with herself? Will she be able to learn, grow, become a better person? I guess we'll never know... and most people don't seem to care :) to be honest... but if someone wants to write their perception of what the possible answer might be... that seems like a reasonable undertaking for a fan fic... and I don't think anyone has said otherwise.

In this little ficlet I liked the fact that there was - or seemed to be - a bit of honest quality to the writing. Sandy does not seem to be portrayed as some poor innocent victim merely caught up in a tragedy (*gag*) nor does she seem to be portrayed as a stock character without any soul... existing only to torment poor innocent Soda (again, *gag*).

I realize that these are extremes... but it seems that most writers go for these extremes or close to extremes. *sigh*

Now I don't think merely avoiding extremes makes it anything brilliant - to be completely honest - but it is at least not insulting to the reader ;) and it also had some originality in style and form to recommend it. The italicized lines are a good idea. I happen to see a bit more in their potential than I see in their actual execution here... but a good idea.

Better than a lot of things posted on the site, anyway. ;)
Mars on Fire chapter 1 . 9/27/2007
One of the definitions Oxford fives is "an error of judgement." Therefore, the use in this author's note is correct.

And really, everyone here is pissing over an author's note, how about reviewing the actual story?

That being said, I would love to see more stories where Sandy isn't vilified by every Soda fanbrat that ever lived. There are so many different ways an author could choose to take the character of Sandy, but it seems 99% of them go with "Sandy is a bitch for cheating on my boyfriend Soda!OMGZ!". It's nice to see stories (and authors) that look at Sandy from a neutral perspective. Maybe Soda wasn't the knight in shining armour we like to believe. I am impressed with stories that attempt to give reason and feeling to Sandy.

I like the poetic quality of the writing - the formatting is very interesting and creative. A really nice use of a 3rd omniscient POV as well - it's hard to find fics that use it correctly.

Good job with this, it's a very nice snapshot in time.
RaDoCa88 not signed in chapter 1 . 9/26/2007
Yep. LuminX is right. I just have to say that, because it's important to use the right words to describe things, not try to alter or downplay or diminish in any way the reality of things, by using inappropriate/inapplicable words.

So call it what it actually is, without equivocating or any ambiguity, face it head on, and deal accordingly... this is maturity and integrity and we should not try to get away with anything less.

Anyway, to address the fic itself: It seems to me that it's not anything great as fics go, but nevertheless it's just real enough that I would give it a passing mark.

(Personally, I'd lose the last line of italics, though, and end it with the line before that.)

Good luck with future writing.
LuminX chapter 1 . 9/26/2007
No, RTB, you are still completely incorrect. You attempt to say the same thing you said before... only rearranging a few of the words in order to try to make it seem better... because you must realize that you did in fact get it wrong.

The result is the same... you are still quite incorrect.

The word "mistake", in all its forms, always refers to something that is done in some way inadvertently... NOT something done with full knowledge, capacity and intent. Never. Using it incorrectly is an attempt to diminish responsibility. The fact that the attempted dodging of responsibility is becoming more common, both in language and in life... does not of course somehow make it correct. It is wrong.

Your explanation makes no sense and contradicts itself... because you are trying to salvage your original comments in some way instead of just taking the time to acknowledge that you were not correct.

The word "wrong" is not subjective. Not at all. Nice try.

It's wrong to write: "book My red is.' It's wrong.

It's wrong to insist upon calling a person "Jake" if you know his name is "Fred" and he wants to be called "Fred". It's wrong.

It's wrong to kick a dog in the face for barking too loudly. It's wrong.

It's wrong steal your neighbor's car even if you know you can get away with it. It's wrong.

This list goes on and on and on...

The word "wrong" is not subjective. It is an objective and extremely necessary use of expresion.

It's wrong to cheat on your boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse. It's wrong.

Quote: "It doesn't matter how many people feel that something is wrong - if a person does something for reasons that they are okay with at the time, but they later feel that they were wrong, it is legitimate for them to refer to their actions as "a mistake" (or "mistakes")."

"Feel" that something is wrong? Reasons that they are "okay" with at the time? Is this the point where I collapse in laughter or throw up? ;)

Obviously she had reasons that she was "okay" with at the time. Obviously. They were bad reasons, and she was despicable to choose to use them as a excuse to do it.

We all have reasons that we are "okay" with at the time when we choose to do something wrong, bad, disgusting, malicious, selfish, hurtful, nasty...

If we have any decency at all... we feel remorse afterwards and try to make amends... but that doesn't make our original action any less wrong, bad, disgusting, malicious, selfish, hurtful, nasty... and it certainly does not make it a "mistake".

It's just wrong... and everyone who is not diminished by very young age or mental incapacity knows that it is wrong.

We've been over this. Sandy had full knowledge, capacity and intent. She made the choice. It was not a "mistake". No amount of verbal gymnastics will change that reality.

She did something wrong. Call it what it is. Grow up. 'Kay?

Feel free to email me if you have any further comment, question, or amusing attempted rearrangement of syntax...

All the best.
RTB chapter 1 . 9/25/2007
I don't want to spend much time on this, but I think I see where the problem is (re: "mistake") and would like to clear it up for anyone else who reads these reviews: there is more than one meaning for the word "mistake".

On one hand, a mistake can refer to something that happened by accident, i.e. unintentional. On the other, it can refer to an act that was performed intentionally, but is later viewed as wrong by the person who performed the act.

The words "wrong" and "despicable" are subjective terms and cannot be used to dismiss the definition of "mistake", regardless how anybody feels about the actions of a particular character or person. It doesn't matter how many people feel that something is wrong - if a person does something for reasons that they are okay with at the time, but they later feel that they were wrong, it is legitimate for them to refer to their actions as "a mistake" (or "mistakes"). I'm not making this up here, and this isn't my opinion I'm stating. Within the given context (a story in which Sandy is sorry and feels that she was wrong), the word was used correctly.

As far as the example sentences I gave, which were intended to show two different uses of the word mistake: they certainly CAN mean the same thing, given no other information. However, because they were put in context in the previous paragraph, they have entirely different meanings. In this case, it has to do with context, not grammar.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

RTB
HippieHebe chapter 1 . 9/21/2007
There's not many Sandy fics out there, so it's nice to see this. It was nicely done, I love the ending, it had so much impact in one short sentence.
LuminX chapter 1 . 9/20/2007
Actually, Myllswrath and Caffe are completely right. It is more than a "mistake" to do something that one knows is wrong. Saying it is only a "mistake" is to try to make it less blameworthy... to try to put it on the level of getting the wrong answer on a test... forgetting one's car keys... stepping on your partner's foot inadvertently when dancing... etc. Those are real "mistakes".

Sandy did not have "inattention". She was certainly paying attention to what she was doing. Sandy did not have "inadequate knowledge". She knew exactly what she was doing and she knew it was wrong. Everyone knows that. Sandy may or may not have had "faulty judgment"... but her actions were a result of a lot more than "faulty judgment". "Faulty judgment" alone does not cause one to take an action that one knows is despicable... that everyone knows is despicable. There are many others factors at play. Such an act is not the result of merely "faulty judgment"... otherwise there would be mass confusion as most people would not be able to predict who they would be sleeping with any given day or night... if some kind of "faulty judgment" were all it took to end up cheating on someone. It takes a lot more than that. It is an act of will. Period.

Cheating on someone (or choosing to have sex with someone at all) is an act of will. It is not something that can be glossed over with the word "mistake"... no matter how much some people would like to try.

I think that is what your intelligent reviewers have been explaining... and they are absolutely correct to do so.

FYI:

"Hitting you was a mistake" is a false statement. A ridiculous statement. It is the same thing as saying "I hit you by mistake". (Study the realities of grammar. They mean the same thing.) Don't kid yourself. Both are ridiculous.

A correct statement would be "Hitting you was wrong." Or "I was wrong to hit you." Something like that. (Even though... let's face it... both Soda and Pony were being royal pains in the derriere... and who could blame Darry? Not me. No one could cope with that kind of relentless worry, stress, strain, pressure, etc. I love Pony... and I don't really advocate hitting as a means of solving problems... but Pony did pretty much have it coming.) Anyway... that's another issue.

Also... by Outsiders canon we do know that Sandy treated Soda very badly. We have Darry's words to Pony toward the end of the book... for one thing. This fact is made quite clear in the novel from both tone and content.

So... no "mistake" was make. The action was done intentionally... with full knowledge of it's inherent wrongness and the pain it could cause to others. A nasty bit of work.

Sure, we are all human... and if Sandy was ever truly sorry (I suppose we will never know if she ever was... or not)... that's a good thing. But it was not a "mistake".

Your fic way okay... but the author's notes at the beginning were kind of a real turn-off... heh... and I had to really concentrate on looking at the fic itself to see if it had any merit.

While I can't say I found it to be anything particularly special... it did have a bit of honesty to it and it was passable as a bit of angst. I've definitely seen worse. :)
Raise the Bar chapter 1 . 9/20/2007
Lest you fear that you have misled your readers:

“mistake:

1 : a wrong judgment: misunderstanding

2 : a wrong action or statement proceeding from faulty judgment, inadequate knowledge, or inattention”

from Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Because the word is commonly used as in #2, above, I interpreted it in that context – Sandy was admitting that she had made an error in judgment when she slept with the Soc boy, not that she had accidentally fallen into bed with him and they inadvertently had sex. Saying, “I slept with him by accident” is different from saying, “My sleeping with him was a mistake”. If my second example was your intention, you are using the word correctly. This reader felt neither misled nor manipulated.

To provide another example in keeping with the original story, it would also be appropriate to suggest that Darry immediately realized that he had made a horrible mistake in hitting Ponyboy, based on his words afterward (“I didn’t mean to”). He did not do it by accident (i.e. tripped over something and unintentionally knocked his hand into Ponyboy), but the fact that it was an intentional act does not mean that it cannot, in retrospect, be referred to as a mistake. It was a wrong action brought about by faulty judgment (even if that judgment consisted of only a millisecond of thought that preceded the action). Now, there are two ways of writing it out, and only one is correct:

“I hit you by mistake.” – This implies that the act was unintentional, which is not true, regardless of how bad Darry feels about it.

“Hitting you was a mistake.” – This implies that faulty judgment was used, which, in the context of the above information, is true.

A general note about a specific issue in Outsiders canon (only because it was presented as fact by two reviewers): Although it is generally assumed by the fandom, there is nothing to indicate that Sandy cheated on Sodapop. We know only that 1) she was pregnant, 2) Soda was dating her by the time she announced that she was pregnant, and 3) she claimed the baby was not his; but there is nothing to suggest that she became pregnant WHILE she was dating him (or at the very least, while she was dating him exclusively). We have no information on either how long she dated Soda, or how far along she was when she told her parents (and Soda) that she was pregnant.

Nice piece of work, Creeno. I enjoyed it.

RTB
Myllswrath chapter 1 . 9/19/2007
On one hand... it's sort of weak... it doesn't really add anything of interest or anything original...

On the other hand... the ending has a bit of a kick to it... so that saves it from it's weakness to an extent (even though I think the whole Soda-dying thing based on one interview - even though he actually lives in the TV series, the novel TWTTIN, and every other interview - is way overdone... nevertheless, it actually works in this case).

And, yes, I must add that your "all humans make mistakes" comment is rather silly and inappropriate. It's not a "mistake" when a person consciously chooses to do something wrong. To try to call it a "mistake" is just a misuse of wording to try to make things somehow sound not quite as bad. It's not honest... and it's not a credit to anyone who does it. Maturity and decency require better from all of us than that.

So whether or not all humans make mistakes... and of course we all do... is really not even remotely the point.

Nasty behaviour is just that... nasty behaviour. Not a "mistake".

I'm glad that there are people who call Sandy a "bitch". Not that I would use that word myself... but at least it shows that people know the difference between nasty behaviour and a "mistake"... and they call it accordingly.
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