|Reviews for Who would win a war, Muggles or wizards?|
| MohitMkr chapter 1 . 2/2
Wizards could cast unbreakable charm on robes and then they would become bulletproof
They also could cast massive shields like in deathly hallows on various buildings
Or the department of mystery would have some wepons they could have created for these situations
The DOM would also have operatives or agents in various governments
The ministry could also release dementors in the army reducing their morale
Also even if the wizarding world was ignorant the DOM would most likely have created plans for these types of situations
| Guest chapter 1 . 1/19
lol when did u post this
| Pieter250 chapter 1 . 6/8/2019
First off, I think there are a couple of mistakes in the logic used in the part about Numerical Advantage. The Harry Potter series is notorious for not mentioning anything unless it becomes necessary for the plot. Saying that homeschooling is very limited simply because it was never mentioned in the books becomes quite silly once you remember that these are the same books that not once mention the names of Hermiones parents or Harry's grandparents. It is a series of books; of course it isn't going to mention everything about the world unless it is somehow relevant. What they do mention is the fact that one hundred thousand witches and wizards were at the Quidditch World Cup. That combined with the size of the Ministry of Magic, the Wizengamot and the DMLE points to a wizarding community that is quite a bit larger than the 5000 mentioned in the essay. The mistakes aside however the conclusion remains the same: muggles outnumber wizards and witches by a large factor.
Another similar problem pertains the food supply of the wizarding world. I do not believe that a world that is so dependent on the cultivation of magical creatures and plants and that literally forces students to take 5 years of Herbology at school would not be capable of being self-sufficiënt when it comes to food. Most pureblood families appear to live in the outskirts of small villages where people often have small vegetable gardens and a couple of chickens.
In my opinion the biggest asset for either side will be the muggleborns. In truth both the wizarding and the muggle world are quite ignorant of the capabilities of the other and muggleborns with a feet in either world could offer some invaluable information. If history learns us anything it is that there are always some collaborators, which will injure the wizarding world's capabilities. That being said, I firmly believe that even if all muggleborns were to switch sides, it would still be a difficult victory for the muggles.
When facing each other on the battlefield, wizards would be disadvantaged beyond any doubt. They would be in the minority, faced by longer ranged wapens, dealing superior damage. Even the fact that non-magical wounds are a piece of cake to heal for healers would change nothing when faced with machine guns, heavy arilery and air support.
But what would happen when wizards actually played on their strenghts? Lets assume for a moment that due to muggleborn interference they have lost a quarter of their numbers in the first battles. Fighting spirit now awakened, aware of the dangers they are facing they are perfectly equipped for a guerilla fighting style. Literally anyone who has gone to Hogwarts can wreak havoc on the muggle world using nothing but pranking spells, nevermind what the more impressive spells could do.
1) The books have taught us a very effective and dangerous spell: fiendfyre. The fact that Crabbe and Goyle can cast it, would suggest that it isn't particularly difficult to cast. In fact the hard part is keeping it under control, which is exactly what you don't want to do while using it against your enemies. A single wizard could apparate into a military base, a power plant or a government building; cast the spell and apparate away. Muggles cannot do anything but watch as the hellish fire burns everything in its path until there is nothing left to consume. Muggleborn collaborators could potentially respond in time, but like I said: the hard part is reigning the fire in once it is out of control. Repeated use of this tactic would allow a small group of wizards to slowly but surely take out all important muggle infrastructure.
2) The muggle-repelling ward is quite easy and can be cast over large areas, again as witnessed in the books. Warfare can become quite a hassle when you cannot come close to your airports, military bases and weapon depots. A single witch or wizard could disrupt the logistics and supply lines of the muggle army by simply warding a few key roads or train tracks. This is something that can be easily dispelled by muggleborns, but Britain is large and they would be stretched impossibly thin trying to remove all the wards that keep popping up. (It would be quite interesting to see whether you could ward the entirety of London to repel muggles... just imagine the chaos!)
3) The draught of living death is admittedly a difficult potion to brew, but it is said that a single drop would be enough to kill an entire room of students. An entire cauldron in the water supply of a town should be enough to take it out in its entirety. On top of that there are plenty of magical poisons that cannot be cured by muggles, which could be used as an alternative.
4) Dementors cannot be seen by muggles and are perfect for lowering morale in extremely large areas, as can be seen in the books. Dragons and giants are not particularly useful, because they can be harmed by muggle weaponry. It would be far better to revive entire regiments of dead muggle soldiers as inferi and use them as cannon fodder in fights against the army. The walking dead indeed...
5) It has been mentioned before, but the imperius curse can be effectively used to snuff out any cooperation between countries and cripple the chain of command. Even muggleborns are not capable of detecting it, all they can do is try to protect key individuals from being in a situation where they can be hit by the curse. (Once again you are in a situation where you could not possibly defend everyone.) You could literally make generals and ministers make decisions in your favor, relay information in advance or boycot any plans against you. Even if muggles found a way to detect it, the caster can give the order to avoid detection or commit suicide if necessary. What will you do when those in command cannot be trusted and continue dying?
The wizarding world might need to take some serious losses before they are up to speed with what they are fighting against, but once they do they will be in their element. A wizard or witch has all the capabilities to remain undetected and as such sustain a long, harrowing guerrilla war; slowly destroying muggle infrastructure until they are back in the Dark Age. I believe there will not be a true winner. The wizarding world will continue to live much like they did before the war: in small communities far away from the muggle world in all the comfort that they can afford with magic. The muggles however will be living in a world devoid of modern technology where any form of significant organisation will be repressed.
| Guest chapter 1 . 11/21/2017
Question: since spells are technically light, could they be absorbed by a black colored object? If they are light then they will be attracted to black, so could you theoretically re-direct or absorb and nullify a spell?
| Kae690 chapter 1 . 5/8/2017
If we wanted to take out most of the wizarding populations we just have to drop a bomb in the ministry or hogwarts. A probably stupid idea tho is using a mirror to deflect their spells and shoot it back at them. Idk if that wil work tho.
| Guest chapter 1 . 12/15/2016
Most people who believe that muggles would win aren't thinking laterally or know much about the military in general. Most militaries don't even consist of 1% of their population and of that 1% very little actually have COMBAT roles.
Oh, we'd all love to believe that we're special snowflakes and step up to the task and do something. In reality, if you've never been in combat, you wouldn't understand that sentiment at all. The fear, adrenaline, and jitters you develop in the midst of a fight isn't easily shaken off. Imagine that fear increased even further as you don't even know what the hell you are fighting. People are dropping around you like flies but you can't even SEE what is happening or your spouse/coworker out of nowhere decides to murder you with a vacant look in his/her eyes.
Discounting offensive spells and the unforgiveables, nearly every magical has other means of fighting, direct or indirect. Do people even know how much damage you'd be able to do just by being able to perform magic? With a simple obliviate/ confundus, you could PERMANENTLY take someone out. How about transfigurating/ animating debris that can fight for you? Turning muggles fighters into lowly ferrets. Even schoolyard jinxes like slug vomitting can make people sick enough to not want to fight, dangling people in the air upside down, tickling jinxes to make them suffocate, or the simple but effective body binding jinx. Magical plants/ animals that muggles can't see or know of? Pull a mandrake out and walk about the streets/ government buildings. Undetectable poisons/ potions that make you incredibly lucky, sweets that turn you into canaries or make your tongue bulge out of your mouth? Too easy.
Muggles know just as little as wizards know about them but wizards can always learn about the muggles while it is much harder for the muggles to learn all about wizards.
Another matter is that you can't really fight what you can't see. Wizards can easily find muggles but muggles would be hard pressed to find magicals at all with muggle repelling jinxes and concealment charms. Even wizards have extensive charms and wards to hide themselves from each other! While it's not mentioned in the book, I'm sure that satellite imaging doesn't work because 'magic'.
Hell, the ICW (or any magical government) would be able to Apparate hitwizards and aurors into the muggle governments and take control immediately by eliminating a significant portion of them with imperios / ak's. This would throw the muggles into chaos and disarray without their leadership in charge and render the muggle standing armies ineffective as each leader they appoint disappears or is under wizard control. Casualties are much harder to deal with without magic as well. Unlike what most people think, being shot doesn't mean you die right away. You actually do have a good chance of surviving most gunshot wounds if they can get help to you in time and don't hit something vital. This could mean days, weeks, or months of rest and rehab, but for magicals you could close wounds on the spot or regrow bones overnight.
Not to mention being able to take hostages/plant threats (bombs, force projection) without warning all over the country / world. Do you really think the muggles would be able to handle protecting citizens, strategic resources or their military against people who can travel with portkeys to wherever they please? They would have no choice but to subject themselves to an unconditional surrender.
As for the nuclear weapons, it would be incredibly stupid for muggles to unleash that sort of devastation because it would be MUGGLES who suffer the most from the fallout. Even if you manage to get a few wizards, the EMP wave would ruin all the electronics and take out any sort of advantage the muggles would rely on in the first place: their technology (heavily based on electronics and computers). This also in turn, renders muggle weaponry useless as the command structure is even more destablized and factories churning out their weapons of wars are ruined. This means no cars, no planes, and no comms. Ordinary people wouldn't be able to use the simple luxuries of phone calls, the metro, and cars. Wizards can just magic their food bigger (Gamp's Law only states that you can't create food with magic out of nothing but it doesn't say anything about enlarging them, or using potions to modify them to be much more nutritious). Muggles living in cities would STARVE once the food is all exhausted without replenishing. There would be riots and fights all over between muggles while the wizards can get by in relative to mention the immense loss of civilian lives and environmental havoc nukes cause for the next century or so due to initial blast itself. Short and long term, nuclear weapons are a no go and every (rational/sane) person knows it.
Even without these nukes, it would be a simple matter for wizards to block major roads by shutting down cars or transfiguring the road into unpassable terrain. How will you respond to threats if you can't even get there? Helicopters? Impedimenta and the rotors are suddenly in-operational if you don't want to blow it up. Chaff and electronic masking isn't going to help vs magic.
In short, wizards can strike hard and strike fast. If that doesn't work, they can outlast the muggles because they have magic and do the dirty work from the shadows. You don't need the entire wizarding population to fight, but a handful of competent witches/wizards can overthrow governments with enough creativity (half-bloods and muggleborns would do exceptionally well in this). The only reason we don't see a war is because JKR made this a children's book story. Wizards like Snape, Tom, and Kingsley would do very well against muggles because they know of them and what they are capable of. It would simply have been all too easy (and rather dark) to turn HP series into a war vs muggles and win.
| Guest chapter 1 . 12/12/2016
The crux of the biscuit are the Muggleborn and Muggle-raised, with one foot in both worlds.
They could provide the wizarding world with intelligence on muggle weaponry and delivery devices (and assist with magical countermeasures) or they could provide the means by which the Muggle military could overcome magical concealment and protections. (ie: removing spells and enchantments prior to attack) They could also assist with protecting the Muggle leaders against Wizarding attack. (ie: use of Imperius) There's also the information that could be supplied to Muggle leaders, political and military.
It depends on whom they are loyal to.
| Oliver chapter 1 . 12/1/2016
One thing I noticed that might be wrong, is that if the shield turns projectiles into dust then a small shield might be ineffective as dust travelling at 1 000 meters per second might have a similar effect to a hollow point round. While it might be dust it still has the same energy and that has to go somewhere and the typical rifle bullet has somewhere between 2 000 and 5 000 joules of energy.
| Inara chapter 1 . 10/24/2016
I feel like I have a point that will surprise everyone, but it's true. Slytherins. I'm speaking as a Slytherin here, just listen, have you ever met a Slytherin who would fight for the obviously losing side? Come on! Slytherins are obviously fighting for the Muggles! You might say,"but, Inara, they're all snobby purebloods!" You forget that there are only 28 pureblooded families, as in the Sacred Twenty-Eight. And in the Slytherin Welcome Letter, Gemma Farley informs us that there are several students in Slytherin with one or more muggle parent(s). Slytherins will always stick together. They'd research, ask the Muggleborns and Half-bloods in their house and decide they should ally with. They'd talk to their parents, and they'll probably have a difficult time convincing them, yeah, but Slytherins know never to underestimate your enemy. Slytherins have resources, and I think are collectively the richest house. They're ambitious, cunning and again, would NEVER fight for the losing side out of loyalty and would NEVER underestimate their enemy. Except for Draco Malfoy in First Year, maybe, but Draco was an idiot then. They have info, and would sell out Wizards in an instant.
Think about it.
| Illidan Strormrage chapter 1 . 10/12/2016
Muggles will beat the ass of wizards. Wizards are too much arrogant to accept muggles as worthy opponent. They will be beaten due to their own ignorance. They don't even know what physics is. They know a little chemistry, but that is restricted only for the potions. One simple nuke will kill them all.
| Guest chapter 1 . 9/17/2016
A few extra points: It is very likely that the whole of Europe would have a wizard population of around 18000. There has been little mention of wizards in other parts of the world, but we can assume they exist, but have way less numbers than Europe. Wizard Europe is likely our Chiba/India, where the large amount of the global population lives. It is very likely both North and South America have no wizarding population, as they were all founded and created after the Wizards passed the secrecy law, thus they would not have the power to build a society. They also have an aversion to moving to another country. But wizard society seems to have no unity, England received no international aid in both wars. One extra point not mentioned so far, the average wizard seems to know an incredibly large amount of information on every aspect of their world, from names and locations of fellow wizards to government operations, so it would only take 1 wizard to be captured and a lot of infomation could be learned
| dauntlessofthesea chapter 1 . 9/8/2016
That's assuming the magical creatures side with the wizards.
| EmPro8 chapter 1 . 6/7/2016
I'm reading through all of the reviews and the actual thing, and I must say I have to go with Muggles. Most points have already been brought up, but I'll be adding a few of my own. Okay. Here it goes.
First of all, you need to think about the physiology. Wizards largely underestimate Muggles. They think they are slow, stupid, and highly disadvantaged. And wizards are stubborn. Really, really stubborn. When they get ready for a war, they'll all be laughing and talking about how weak the muggles are and how easy it'll be to beat them. But when the Muggles lay the first blow, flashing their guns and bombs and grenades around, the Wizards will be in shock, allowing Muggles to land the first very severe blows.
Also, Wizards aren't very... well... United. They are very biased and constantly compete against eachother. Sure, Muggles do that too, but they know how to assemble and unite when things happen. They have protocols and alliances. Wizards, on the other hand, seem to just be in their own seperate worlds. There's not much on the wizarding government, but we do know that there are other wizarding communities in other countries. And from what we've seen, they don't work together. For example, when Voldemort rose and massacred millions of people, we didn't see Ireland come in and send an army to stop him. In fact, I'm not even sure if there was any Wizard army. It was just the British Aurors and him.
As for magical creatures, (forgive me if I'm wrong) I'm pretty sure Dementors were banished after the 2nd wizarding war. Wizards and Demeantors are on bad terms now. And for things like Giants and merleople, I don't think wizards like them very much. I think it'll be like in the civil war in America. North and South would be fighting, both ignoring the huge mass of African Americans awaiting command, until the very end when one side finally realizes, "Wait a moment. We can recruit these guys." And I imagine that side will be the wizards, though it will be last resort and I highly doubt the magical creatures will be super willing to help. They were discriminated and hunted for years, and it will take time and resources to reach an alliance.
Next part will be about technology. Most people already brought up things like weaponry, so I'll skip that. Two big points I noticed people hadn't said yet in communication and factories.
From what I've seen, wizards don't have mass factories producing wands and potions. It's mostly small shops and make-it-yourself things. Polyjuice Potion is hard to make. It takes time and not-so-common resources. They don't have mass productions of them. The only reason Harry got it when they all disguised themselves is because Moody had a large storage of it for his job. It's not like they could deal it out to large groups of people (and then there's the matter of getting the hairs of the person you want). Same with that Felix's Felics (or however you spell it), it's incredibly hard to make and if you mess up it becomes lethal. Yes, if you give it to soneone it makes them potentially impossible to kill, but they're not going to have a large supply of it. And it only lasts so long.
And it's just not with potions. It's with weapons, cloaks (they're freaking measured for every individual person), food, invisibility cloaks, etc., etc.
And as for communication, Muggles do it much faster. The Wizard's way of doing things is through owls and fire, which is slow and inefficient. But we can communicate in a matter of seconds to people halfway across the globe. We're much more united and on top of eachother than the wizards. Plus we have texting, which is much more silent and stealthy than an owl.
And then there's the matter of the blocking spell. As someone said below, Snape used a suit of armor as a shield against knives rather than an actual deflecting charm. But as you have said, Dumbledore used some sort of shielding charm to turn the glass into dust. But I don't think that was a shielding charm. Heck, I'm not even sure that was dust. My head cannon is that Dumbledore used some sort of reversing spell to turn the glass back into sand (because that's where glass originates from) because he knew that that much glass would shatter his shielding charm. So I think that small, solid, fast-moving, non-magical objects can shatter or penetrate a shielding charm if shot with enough force. Because really, what is magic anyway? Gas? Liquid? Solid? We don't know. All we know is that a shielding charm was made to shield oneself from magic. Sure, every once in a while it's used to block small things, but it's specifically made for magic. And we all know that bullets are very much solid and very much fast. And if someone did use the reverse charm against a bullet, it would either 1) not work because it's possible that only very powerful wizards like Dumbledore can do it or 2) just turn the bullet from small, confined pieces of metal to lumpy, hard, unshaped pieces lead, which still hurts. And the time to put up a shielding charm vs the time it takes for the bullet to reach the target has a rather wide gap.
And then there's the matter the Imperious Curse, and I must say that is definitely a Wizard Advantage there. They can tip the balance of the war very dramatically. But then there's the prospect of getting to that person, staying with him and verbally saying your commands, not getting caught, and not letting anyone notice (which might be hard if they have loved ones). Plus it's illegal anyway. I'm not sure if that fact changes in war, but still...
The next thing is the science behind magic. From what I've seen, wizards aren't very science-minded. Like, at all. They usually focus on the 'when' and 'where' than the 'how' and 'why'. And I can assure you as soon as they learn about magic, Muggles scientists will be all over it. They'd figure put the property and science behind it. And once that's done, they'd learn about magic in ways that Wizards could have never imagined. They won't know how to use it, persay, but more like loopholes, how to block it, how to go through it, how to detect it, all that jazz. It'll take time for sure, but once the Muggles figure it out... it's all over.
There's also the problem of population. The wizarding community is small anyways, but as far as we've seen, they don't exactly have a 'military force'. It's just a small group of Aurors that hunt down bad basically bounty hunters and average police men.
So here you've got a group of Aurors, which lack numbers because they come from a small community anyway, with limited resources and no protecting besides their wands (because up to now that's all they really needed) up against an entire country's-worth of an army. Maybe even more. Sure, they'll get a few alliances together and maybe draft a few people, but they're defiantly not going to be what you would call 'overpowering'.
And then there's the firepower. Spells only work as fast as you can think. If I were to shoot a bullet, there's no way you can block it or dodge it. You'd be hit. Wizards need to see you to hex you. There's snipers, mine fields, bombs, aircrafts, missiles, grenades, nukes, trenches, etc., etc. A fourteen-year-old boy can dodge the killing curse. Why not a trained army?
Then there's healing. Unfortunately for us, we are at the disadvantage when it comes to that. Wizards can regrow bones overnight. The more powerful ones can create fake metal limbs and workable eyes. We don't have ways to heal from hexes and spells. But most of the minor ones wear off eventually. And it's not like wizards know how to heal bullet wounds (and they mostly kill under a few minutes). Though I feel like Muggles would be better trained in healing, wizards have the high ground when it comes to first-aid.
The last thing we need to know about is training. Wizards only know how to use wands. Muggles? There's guns, fistfighting, knives, and a whole bunch of other things I can't name right now. Soldiers know how to do hand-to-hand combat if they were to ever lose their weapon. I don't think wizards are very athletic anyways. There's no gym or anything at Hogwarts, and their main sport is played by sitting down. And we know the Aurors don't have to be agile or fast. That just need to know how to work a wand. Take Moody for an example. He's an old man who hobbles around on one leg and he's still up and at 'em (even after retirement). As soon as you take a wizard's wand away, they're done for. There's nothing they can do. Take a soldier's gun away though, and they'll just punch you in the jaw. Don't get me wrong. If there's one muggle with a gun and one wizard with a wand, the wizard will definitely win (if they're fast enough). But take a couple thousand Muggles with only a few hundred wizards, and they're done for.
So when it comes down to it, with Muggles vs wizards, you need to admit that Muggles would win. They're not going to wipe out the whole population or anything like that, they'll just win the battle. It's not going to be easy though. Wizards have strengths we don't have. It'll be a hard and bloody road to victory, full of holes and mistakes. But when it comes down to it, we will win. As simple as that.
| Nguyen Minh Hieu chapter 1 . 5/19/2016
Muggles would win, they have a huge nuclear arsenal which is enough to blow up the wizard's world ( of course, this is just the last solution if the muggles were faced to lose the war )
| Guest chapter 1 . 5/8/2016
the wizard did not leave because they were afraid. and most stay out of the war but a all out wark they could destroy the muggle world. one wizard could destroy a whole city buy them self. here one way and there are many others. remember when a beater was inchanted to kill harry. now about 10000 of them in a chest drop in a city notice me not spell. be like a 100000 flying blowing ball but harder killing muggles. then going to the next by by city. 1 wizard 5 million people. curse money destroy power plants. if they ever attack in for force. remember most wizard stay out of the war. that would be like a 5 to 20 million wizard they could kill billions of muggle 100 of billons in damage the muggle would just say fuck it we quit.