Reviews for Fathers and Sons
DinaLori chapter 14 . 1/16/2013
I absolutely love the way you write John. Far too many times I've read someone's interpretation of him as cold, unfeeling, often even abusive when canon shows us he was anything but. There's the scene in Home that you mentioned, plus his speech to Sam in DMB about how he started college funds for both him and Dean; how he never wanted the hunting life for them, but all he saw was evil all around them and was too afraid to let them have lives like other kids and felt he had to train them as hunters to keep them alive.

Yes, John loved his sons. Even the YED said it in IMTOD: "If only your boys knew how much their daddy loved them." And that right there is the saddest thing: even after all this time they still don't know.
pandora jazz chapter 14 . 1/13/2013
I could picture John's face as I read this. The young John's joy for the love he shared with Mary and the birth of his son. The bearded older John as he watched over his son lying in the hospital.
Nice job.
Thanks for sharing again.
SamDeanLover28 chapter 14 . 1/13/2013
irismay42 chapter 14 . 1/12/2013
The sad thing is, even if John had decided to ignore the nagging doubts he had about the way Mary died, pick up what was left of his life with his boys and go back to doing what he'd been doing before Mary died, Azazel would still have come for Sam, and none of them would have known how to put up the fight they did. John pretty much had to sacrifice his family or he'd have ended up sacrificing the world. I suppose it's the same dilemma he had with Adam - tell him the truth and ruin his blissful ignorance, or leave him to die unaware and unprotected.

Eesh, it's not much fun being a Winchester!
pandora jazz chapter 13 . 1/7/2013
You always do a wonderful job of making us think about what Dean (and Sam)are feeling.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.
Hope all is well.
Take care.
Stone120 chapter 13 . 1/6/2013
That episode broke my heart. For many reasons, the main one being what you said, the betrayal that Dean felt. It was a slap in the face to him. Strangely it's the one thing that I can't forgive John for. Not that he had another kid, but the easy he treated the whole thing. Not to mention that Adams conception was pretty close to the time of the shritga incident.
SamDeanLover28 chapter 13 . 1/6/2013
sylia91 chapter 13 . 1/5/2013
I agree wholeheartedly with you again. We definitely think a lot alike especially about SPN, particularly Dean. I like Jump the Shark as well and felt that Adam was just another tool by the writers of SPN to re examine the dynamics and relationship between the other 3 Winchesters, particularly since that wasn't even Adam but a ghoul. I think Dean comforted himself about their crappy childhood and the responsibilities laid on his extremely young shoulders by telling himself there was nothing else John could have done and he did the best he could. The truth would be that Dean did the best he could and Sam benefitted from that. When Dean saw that idyllic photo of John and Adam at a baseball game it destroyed all the lies he told himself to get through the hard times. Apparently John could be an affectionate father but just not to Dean, Dean was that for Sam. Some argued that due to being raised normal and not a hunter's son Adam got killed but since both Dean and Sam have died and been resurrected many times, I don't agree necessarily with that assessment. That kind of upbringing probably benefitted all of us clueless civilians that the Winchesters helped but I don't think it made their quality of life in any way better. It just highlights another sacrifice by that family for the greater good. Another reflection of Dean's big heart is that he still embraced Adam despite his great disappointment and never held it against him. Family to Dean is still primary and doesn't only include blood.
irismay42 chapter 13 . 1/5/2013
Jump The Shark's an interesting episode in terms of Sam and Dean's relationship with John and how it's altered when they find out about Adam. Of course it's only later we find out that a lot of what Ghoul!Adam told them he and John did together (ballgames on birthdays) more than likely never really happened. But presumably he knew the effect telling Sam and Dean that John had a semi-normal relationship with another son would have on them, particularly on Dean, who seems to have longed for normal almost as much as Sam did, possibly more, without even really realising it.
HeroicDean chapter 11 . 12/21/2012
I firmly believe that for some people, the decisions they make are done for and out of love. For Mary, it was that fear, and the very real fear that because John was dead, she wouldn't have anyone else. Her parents were now gone and all she wanted was to find love and be loved...and like her son, be normal.

It's very bone-chilling and ironic that Mary's greatest fear was her future children growing up in the same hunting lifestyle that she did, and her greatest fear came true and it was indirectly because of her making the deal and allowing the demon to come to her home.

'That had to torment John.'

Can you even imagine the confusion and anger that he had already gone through in the years since Mary died? And then to learn that it was because of her secret lifestyle that it happened? I'm sure a large part of him felt betrayed that he hadn't known about it, that Mary hadn't confided in him about it.

Maybe the reason Dean understood John more and followed along with what he wanted, was because he remembered the fire and the fear that both of them had undoubtedly felt in that moment.
HeroicDean chapter 12 . 12/16/2012
'I never knew the Dad Dean knew.

The average guy.

The father.'

Dean had the advantage there, because he was lucky enough to have the faintest of memories of his mother and what kind of life he had before all the nastiness took over, he knew the kind of Dad that John was: The fun-loving one, the one that swept him up into his arms when he walked through the door.

Sam was too young to have solid memories of John before all the hunting and loss hardened him from the fun-loving and gentle father. Sam resented John for years because of what the hunting did to them, how it deprived him of a normal upbringing and education.

That's why I love, love John and Sam's talk in DMB. John got to connect with Sam in a way that I don't think he'd ever been able to do before, talking about the college funds and his "real" reason for getting so upset with Sam when he left.

'When I met young John in the past and talked to him about what he wanted for his children, it opened my eyes to the loss. For all of us. He never wanted this. Wouldn't think of pulling his kids into the life.'

Meeting the "real" John in the past and getting a chance to talk to him and seeing how infuriated he was at the very thought of pulling his kids into something like that, Sam I think realized how wrong he had been to judge their father so harshly and how his father was just a regular guy in the respect that he loved his sons and would do anything for them.

"He died trying. I forgive him."

Those were words that Sam had needed to say to John for years, to recognize that even though John was far from perfect, he did love them and possibly, the road he took the boys on, saved their lives from the demon trying to take another direct shot at them. I think possibly the saddest moment on the show (besides this one) was right before John died and Sam picked the fight with him. I'm sure Sam thought that John hated him when nothing could be further from the truth.

'I wish Dean could know that man again. The Dad he lost the night Mom died.'

After all the years of following John's every command and after he was gone and he had a chance to think, I think Dean began to see the holes and he began to realize how unfair his life had been, how much John put on his shoulders, but Dean needs to realize that even though his father made mistakes, he loved them and then forgive.

Anyway, what a wonderful chapter. Again!
SamDeanLover28 chapter 12 . 12/16/2012
pandora jazz chapter 12 . 12/15/2012
You did a good job writing Sam's thoughts.
I like how you reminded us that Sam probably understands more about a young John then Dean knows when they traveled into the past.
Thanks for sharing another chapter with us.
(also thanks for the information on your other story. I'll think about it)
Stone120 chapter 12 . 12/15/2012
Hah. I'm all caught up! Dean focused more on their mom when they traveled to the past. Beyond the obvious little boy seeking his mother, because Dean is so a momma's boy, he knew she was the key to changing their destiny. His main focus will always be to save his family.
Stone120 chapter 11 . 12/15/2012
The back story of this wonderful show is certainly fascinating. It all comes down to love and the things they're willing to do for the people they love. That's why it gets on my nerve when people talk about these actions being selfish.
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