|Reviews for The Honour of Dwarves|
| chrisd1016929 chapter 10 . 8/30/2017
I wish you would come back to this story so much!
| Guest45 chapter 10 . 5/1/2017
How come you never defended the Dwarves in general, Thorin especially when they are being 'bashed' in other fics? If you like someone you accept their faults. If you have read the book, remember why Bilbo took the Arkenstone in the first place?
| Guest chapter 1 . 4/29/2017
reply to Tsusikko - he's not, he's being bashed because his disloyal thieving tw*t
| Tsukiko K chapter 10 . 4/29/2017
Oh, so this is a story of Bilbo-bashing? He's my favorite character. .-. I won't have him bashed just because Thorin's a greedy bastard.
| Little Details chapter 9 . 4/17/2017
Amongst all the things to like about this excellent story, I just wanted to point out one of the smaller touches which I think hasn't been made by other reviewers: Boy, is it refreshing to see a book-verse characterization of Bard!
You had me reluctantly rather liking him in this chapter - reluctantly because of course I'm on the dwarves' "side" politically - and whilst recognizing that he has his faults and his motives aren't always the purest. You reminded me that I liked him in the book. It's sort of insulting how the movies seemed to think Book Bard was too complex for the audience to relate to, so they turned him into Robin Hood.
| Konner2015 chapter 1 . 3/17/2017
Will it be continue?
| BM originally chapter 10 . 1/29/2017
I admit I haven't read all of this, but I did read this last chapter just to see where you were going.
To be honest, I felt Bilbo was a little OOC - but perhaps you were aiming for the idea that the one ring was influencing him?
What I do very much like is your viewpoint of Dis's thoughts on her sons deaths - that she mourns them, of course, but that she was fiercely proud of their honorable deaths and that she holds no blame at all against Thorin. Too many fanfics write her as hating Thorin after their deaths, and all I can think is that those writers are projecting modern sentiments and their own biases there; people who have lived in peace and safety their whole lives and have absolutely no idea of what it is to live in a war-torn nation or to hold something worth more than life itself. I don't know too much about ancient Scandinavian culture (which you seem to be portraying here), but what little I do know is that their women were just as staunch and strong as their men, and that losing their husband, son, father, or brother in battle was honorable to them; they would have been ashamed to have begged and pleaded and tried to hold their menfolk back from war. And there were many other cultures in that time period that also felt that way; war and hardship was a way of life, and death before dishonor was very much a life motto for most folks in those harsh times.
And as Thorin is my favorite character, I am very glad to find someone else who sees him with sympathy! In fact, I really don't see much sign at all in the book of "gold sickness". And I never thought that Thorin's reactions, even in the book, were unreasonable - as you pointed out, they were a company of 13 taking back what was theirs! Yes, Bard and his people had some claim - some of that gold belonged to Dale, obviously, and the waking of Smaug had caused the destruction of Laketown, so the dwarves did owe the men of the lake a weregild, as it were, but Thranduil had absolutely no claim whatsoever! I detested how Tolkien made him the righteous elf at the end of the Hobbit! Even if he thought Thorin had to be dead, Thranduil KNEW that Thorin had kinfolk in the Iron Hills that had claim on that mountain of treasure; his marching toward the mountain to claim part of it was nothing but pure, unadulterated greed on his part! And yet Tolkien treats the whole thing as if Thorin was at fault! Disgusting...
And Thorin never said he would break faith with Bard; I thought his telling Bard he would not treat with him until he removed the army from his doorstep to be perfectly reasonable. As you said - showing up and asking for help would have been one thing; to show up with an army demanding gold was quite another, and no one else would have stood for it, either! All I can think is that Bard was being influenced by Thranduil...or perhaps the one ring was in play and was influencing a lot of different people...
And the most disgusting thing of all is what Tolkien has Bilbo doing during the battle! It was one thing for Bilbo to put the ring on and look for a place out of direct battle - I can forgive him that as he was a gentle Shirefolk who had never seen war; but to stand on the hillside by Thranduil, thinking that to die by the elf king - the very same who had unjustly imprisoned his traveling companions, the same companions that he had eaten with, slept beside, and fought with for months - was somehow supposed to be more honorable? That whole paragraph leaves such a bad taste in my mouth and really ticks me off to no end!
Anyway, that was my thoughts on bookverse; I completely agree with you on the BoFA movie and hate the whole "goldsickness" plotline completely. And especially the Tauriel/Kili love story...ugh. Though I do wish kind of, that if we were doing a Thorin lives story (thank you so much for that! most writers want to kill him off to make room for Fili), I kind of would have like to have seen Fili and Kili survive :)
What I do agree with you on is your portrayal of Gandalf. Movie Gandalf was a much different character than book Gandalf, in both the Hobbit and LOTR, and I frankly much prefer the movie version over book version! Especially as he was portrayed in the Hobbit! He very much came across to me as not really caring at all about the dwarves and only using them as pawns in his own game - in fact, he seemed to do that with everyone, he and the elves - as if no one else in the world was worthy of dignity or value except for their usefulness to the elves. And of course, all other folk were of much less worth than the elves, unless they were Dunedain with elven blood in their veins. The prejudice and elitism in LOTR really drives me up the wall!
And Gandalf very much seemed to hold the dwarves in a sort of contempt, just as the Valar themselves did, despite the fact that Eru Himself TOLD them that he adopted the dwarves! His telling Mahal to put them to sleep was because Eru's intentions were for the elves to walk the world first; NOT that the dwarves were lesser. Besides, Eru knew all that would happen before He even created Arda, as is shown when the Valar sang the creation song; He knew that the dwarves would be made - in fact, it could be said, even, that since Mahal came from Eru's thoughts and mind, that Eru Himself gave Mahal the idea to make them just as he did precisely because they would not be made in the same way and same manner as the elves and men - and therefore would not be susceptible to the same weaknesses!
At least, that's my thoughts :) Sadly, Gandalf's viewpoints seem to be a mirror for Tolkien's own. I love LOTR, but it really grates on my nerves how high he held his elves on a pedestal above all other races - ESPECIALLY when I read the Silmarillion and the histories and see how much evil the elves wrought!
Anyway - good luck, Dis, on getting Thorin to marry! *grins* Though in all honesty, in my mind's little AU version of the Hobbit, I figure Thorin married a long time ago and at least TRIED to have a child - he was the only son left of the only son of the king of Erebor! As much store as the dwarves put in having a king in the direct line from Durin, there is really no sensible way that Thorin would have not married and tried to have an heir to follow behind him, especially after Frerin died. I know that only about half the male dwarrow population married or even wanted to (apparently, dwarves didn't have much of a sex drive), but I doubt that would have been an option available to the only surviving son of the king. And I'm not so sure Fili was truly Thorin's heir, anyway. From comments made from some sources I've seen (though I fully admit I haven't read all the histories, so I could be reading an earlier draft that Tolkien changed), dwarven society was very paternalistic and dwarven women were considered part of their husband's family, so wouldn't that mean Fili was considered of his father's house and not eligible to be Thorin's heir? I do seem to think the appendices of ROTK seemed to suggest that Dain was Thorin's heir all along, but that of course, could have just been my impression. I'm not so sure that Dwarven society would have been like Rohan in that a sister son or grandson of a daughter could follow as king as I have a hard time seeing the dwarves considering a son through a daughter as a direct descendant of Durin. But perhaps I'm wrong on that and the dwarves had a different way of approaching it - perhaps Thorin, as their sister-brother, had a major influence on Fili and Kili, as some cultures seemed to have (I know that in Celtic cultures, the sister-brother seemed to have more influence than a son's own father in some cases, so perhaps that was the same thing here?) And I suppose the Rohirrim could have picked that up from the dwarves, as the Rohirrim came from Rhovanion, and area which seemed to have been influenced somewhat by dwarvish culture, or perhaps carried from the east, where the dwarves seemed to have had a very strong influence upon men when they first came into the world.
I personally think that Thrain would have pushed and goaded and probably insisted on it at any rate!
Sorry for the long post! :) But I suppose you could take it as a compliment *grins*
| SelkieShore chapter 4 . 5/14/2016
I am re-reading, and I realise I have never said how much I admire your Dis. Though the circumstances are different, she reminds me of the Widow of Glencoe: "I will give you tears, my children, if the tears remain to me, when the mothers of the foemen cry a Coronach for thee."
1 for Isky's comment below about the Creation of the Dwarves. Just as The Hobbit is Bilbo's version of events, so The Silmarillion is the Elves'. We're not obliged to accept either uncritically ;)
| Isky chapter 10 . 3/2/2016
Sorry, also wanted to add...I have never believed it was Eru's will that the Dwarves should be viewed as "lesser" than Elves and Men. I firmly believe that this was based on the arrogant beliefs of the Elves and the jealous pettiness of Men. And if the other Valar hold the Dwarves as lesser, then perhaps it is best that they and their Maiar have little to do with Arda.
| Isky chapter 10 . 3/2/2016
I think I am generally in agreement with other reviewers that I do honestly believe Bilbo really didn't mean anything malicious when he gave Bard the Arkenstone. I agree that he was being selfish and prejudiced, and arrogant in placing his own cultural values and belief system above that of the Dwarves'. However, I honestly think he believed the Dwarves were just being foolish (by his standards) that he was just trying to get the Dwarves to see "sense" (his definition of it, anyway). He is most certainly guilty of being culture blind, as well as arrogant and a fool. He is immensely lucky Thranduil and Bard didn't ambush Dain's army and cause a Dwarven slaughter (about which I have no doubt Gandalf would have stood by and done nothing), but I do truly believe that possibility never entered his head. He was simple and foolish enough to think this stand-off between armies could be solved as easily as a squabble between neighbors.
However (unlike some of your readers), I do think it is in character for him to ask about his payment before leaving Erebor. After all, the friendship between him and the Dwarves (as well as him and the Mirkwood Elves and the Lake-town Men) had disintegrated; it makes sense that he would try to fall back on the business arrangements that had been made as a parting "shot" at those he feel misunderstand and have wronged him. Also, Bilbo was never as disinterested in the treasure as he tried to claim - after all, one of the reasons he claimed the Arkenstone was he allowed Smaug to make him doubt the intentions of the Dwarves, and if he had truly never cared for the treasure, he wouldn't have tried to claim part of it in the first place.
As for Gandalf, though...spot on. I've never thought he or Lady Galadriel are truly the shining examples of right and good that everyone seems to hold them up to be (I personally hold Galadriel responsible for Boromir's breakdown, and view her entering people's minds uninvited to be tantamount to rape). Gandalf is here to satisfy his Valar-given mandate to end Sauron, and any means necessary is fine with him.
Though, the state of Bilbo's relationship with the Dwarves of Erebor of course makes me wonder what will happen when the messengers of Sauron come a-calling to offer rings of power in return for Bilbo's location. I can't see Thorin telling them where Bilbo is (since he would never take anything from a servant of Sauron), but would he feel the need to try to warn Bilbo, as Dain did in LoTR? Would he send a messenger to Rivendell?
| anano.avakjan chapter 10 . 12/4/2015
I love your fic so much. Its very satisfying to read a story where Bilbo is not a Jesus Christ and where justice wins. Please never stop. I am looking forward to the continuation.
| jbxl chapter 10 . 9/5/2015
I've just read this whole story. Well done, it is beautifully written and I really look forward to the next instalment. I'm not convinced Bilbo and Gandal are such baddies though.
| LilyRosetheDreamer chapter 10 . 8/21/2015
Ow, shit. That hurt my heart, but I LOVE this take on what could have been. Part of me wishes that Bilbo and Thorin could have parted on good terms, but this is better than nothing. I see why it happened too. AND YES THE POOR DWARVES GET CRAPPED ON A LOT AND IT'S SAD. I feel bad about Dain though - I honestly love Dain a lot and don't understand why people vilify him so much. I understand why he didn't offer a dwarven army to go with Thorin and Company - I believe the book painted him in a "he was good bloke" light as well (well, in what little book time he had). But eh, maybe there's stuff I didn't consider.
| Syntinen Laulu chapter 10 . 8/15/2015
Hwaet! Eallníwean capitol Áran þára Dweorga we hælaþ! Swelc blíðnes! Hwistlan seolfrenan béon lofsangas! (Sorry, I have no Old Norse, OE is as close as I can get.)
Like a lot of people here I've been waiting keenly for this. I love it, and your Gaelgall dwarf culture is spot on. Hearing Dis and Thorin laying into Gandalf is loads of fun - great to finally see somebody giving it to him with both barrels. So it's with great reluctance that I find that I'm just (for the first time in this fic) not totally on board with some of this chapter, specifically Bilbo's attitudes and remarks:
- I can't quite imagine *anyone* who had humiliated himself inn public by fouling himself in terror reacting next day by harrumphing about his ruined breeches, but especially not well-bred Edwardian gentlehobbits, who I suspect don't refer openly to their bowel functions much at all; so it seems out of character for Bilbo to say anything more direct about that than 'and then when I, er, you know…' (Gandalf, of course, could well be unsympathetic enough to Shire sensibilities to say 'Yes, I imagine those breeches will never be the same again.' )
- I think (she said cautiously) we all agree that when Bilbo tells Bard and Thranduil about Dain's approach he only means to warn them that they need to act soon as Thorin will have allies and supplies within days, and doesn't remotely intend them to use the information to mount an ambush; the possibility of that just hasn't entered his limited bourgeois hobbity mind - indeed it might still not have dawned on him. So his defence to that particular charge would surely be something along the lines of 'Of course I never meant that! People just don't do things like that! Bard, Thranduil, you wouldn't have….would you?' And you'd have the Dwarves, Elves and Men grappling (maybe successfully, maybe not) with the concept of someone unable to grasp the necessity of using any legitimate advantage in an armed confrontation.
- The contract is crucial, yes: but as it's canon that Bilbo's whole self-justification for his behaviour is that the Arkenstone *is* his fourteenth share and 'I have disposed of my share as I wished', so I don't think he can possibly be indignantly demanding it now: only insisting that as Thorin carelessly promised he could choose his share for himself *before* excepting the Arkenstone, his action was legal.
- Tolkien makes clear that during the siege Bilbo's mind is running partly on bacon-and-eggs and getting back home, and partly on a nagging belief that Smaug was right that the dwarves never meant to pay his share, and that a combination of these is his real motivation. But in his conscious, Englishman-abroad mind he's doing the right thing, sorting out this whole sorry business sensibly for these poor benighted dwarves who are so inexplicably hung up on a point of honour, and personally I think that he would start out on that tack, and that his real reasons would only emerge under pressure?
Oh, and is Elrond actually a king? He's just 'Master Elrond', surely?
| norma chapter 10 . 8/15/2015
Next time I get locked out for forgetting my keys, I am going to get me a wizard:D Gandalf was not only in the house, he was in the King's chambers! Perhaps he was trying to tell both Thorin and Dis "See what power I have? what I can do? - so don't mess with me" Plus his threat to Dis because she did not seem to get the message?
It was only right that he gave Thorin the map and the key, they were not his to keep! The dying Dwarf he met in Dol Guldur, who he later correctly guessed was Thrain, had said "For my son" when he gave the two items to Gandalf. And yes, his explanation to Frodo, Gimli, Merry and Pippin in 'The Quest of Erebor' was part of the reasons for my doubts about Gandalf. I think you have portrayed him so well in this fic.
I am glad that you have put Bilbo's reason for taking the Arkenstone the same as in the book. I don't agree with the movie version where it seemed he took it to save his friend Thorin from becoming mad. But then he gave it to Bard to exchange for gold, so if Thorin agreed to the exchange and he took back the Arkenstone, he could still become mad, so I don't see in what way was Bilbo saving his friend. If Bilbo took it because he did not understand Dwarven culture, does it mean it was okay in Hobbit culture to take other people's properties without permission? So why was he so angry when Lobelia took his silvers! I think Bilbo's problem in this matter was because Gandalf so openly defended him, praised him for his every action, right or wrong. If Gandalf knew the hobbits so well, he should have been aware of Bilbo's simple ways/thinking and should have educated him on Dwarven culture at least, before foisting him on Thorin and Company.
Oh yes! I love Thorin's prophecy and I very much hope Gandalf will remember it when Saruman betrays him:D
Another great chapter from you, thank you:)))