The Hidden Plot of the Movie EC lovers
In the hidden plot we unravelers found on WB board, and have been uncovering since June of last year, more happened than what appeared. To know more, read on. But only if you wanted her with Erik. . .
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Angel of Mystery-145
In scenes of the 2004 movie, in the different subtitles listed, in the Phantom of the Opera companion book, in the soundtrack, even in Phantasia (what ALW's brother composed), there are mega clues--and I mean loads of them--ALL working together that show she always loved her Angel (Erik) and married him, and show so much more too. The hidden plot we uncovered is a very intense, very deep story of unconditional love, forgiveness, and redemption--with her bringing her Angel light and him breaking away from the darkness. We have been working on this every day since June of 2005. I have compiled all of our efforts into one thread--the Scene Summary hidden plot thread. If interested, here is a link to what we found. YOu'll need to copy and paste it since it didn't convert here, or just click on my name because the link is in my bio too and for some reason it coverted to a link there. (still trying to figure this board out). Be sure and go to beginning page since story is in order. I still need to post the ending b & w scenes, which I grouped all together for a reason, but plan to do so soon. I also still need to post pictures for the deleted scene--NOWL--which is full of clues too. Many who were so disappointed by movie's apparent ending (her ending up with Raoul--what I call "1st plot") have read the link above and told me they love the movie much more than ever now. So do I. :) Any questions, let me know. I'd be happy to answer them if I can. Comments welcome too. :)
1/31/2006 #1
PhantomsLadyofTheNight
Hi! Again love your "hidden plot"! Exzactly what is the Phantom of The Opera Companion about? I wouldn't mind getting it! I have always believed that Christine loved the Phantom regardless of what happened. Raul was a weenie! PhantomsLadyofTheNight
2/3/2006 #2
Angel of Mystery-145
Hi PLOTN-- :) The Phantom of the Opera Companion book shows a history of the Phantom of the Opera, also the stage show, and then a behind the scenes look at movie, interviews, and the original screenplay from the movie. It is full of clues--for instance, some words are underlined and capped in screenplay--about 30 -35 instances throughout entire script. There's no rhyme or reason to what is underlined--it's not always about sets or props. Sometimes it's people or entire sentences. As is this case, it's an amount, a color, and a person: She hands CHRISTINE a SINGLE RED rose with a black ribbon obviously from HIM. In teh screenplay, all names are only capped--why I did that with Christine's above. BUT in this sentence--"SINGLE RED" and "HIM" is underlined AND capped. "Rose" isn't, nor is "black ribbon." NOt here anyway. This is just one of the intstances of capped/underlined clues in book. I feel this is another clue to show that red is Angel/Erik's color. Also, all the movie scene shot pictures they show differ in some way from the movie. For instance, when Phantom uses sword to ruffle Carlotta's feathers, he's wearing black gloves in movie. IN book of that movie shot, it shows his hands--he's not wearing any gloves--but in opposite "off set" pic where he's talking to JS with Emmy, he has the black gloves on. Also in "scene shot" two of the masqueraders are unmasked (they were the ones to curtsy and bow in movie.) I feel that's a clue to find the significance of the gloves, and also to watch those dancers. In PONR, when Phantom holds her in that hold, with his hand at her throat--"what raging fire shall flood the soul"--if you look very carefully, you can see that Christine's right arm is in waistband of her skirt in teh companion book picture, which is also tinged in green (and yes, a reason for both fits in the hidden plot we found). You can see these clue pics on the summary thread--I posted them from teh companion, thanks to one of our sleuthers who has a scanner. :) Also, in companion book, words are sometimes changed just a fraction--to show a clue. For instance, in Little Lotte-, Raoul says "Little Lotte thought am i fonder of dolls. . .or of goblins. . .or of shoes. . .or of riddles, of frocks. In movie it's "or of riddles, or frocks." The Empress Elisabeth gown she wears in TOM is a big riddle OF a frock--and when you find out its meaning, you see it's a mirror to POTO (especially DOM)--a musical also consisting of a love triangle. Also, Christine hides things under her skirts a lot. Also clues to hidden plot. In companion book it shows her overskirt rolled up a few inches at the hem--a clue perhaps to watch her skirt and what's underneath it. (in masquerade it's a red petticoat; in the Twisted Every Way chapel scene, it's a red book) A lot of us think that RUG put out the companion book mainly as a clue guide. There are so many clues in it. Did you ever notice that the phantom's mask is on the wrong side in some publicity shots?? It is on the cover of the book too. And in the movie trailer, it's on the right side most all of the time--except one time--that whole scene is switched around. AND Raoul has the sword in the wrong hand at cemetery scene. Also, in trailer we see one of the masqueraders do a full head bow, with her chin going all the way to her chest as if in homage, when the Phantom appears at the top of the staircase. . .stuff they didn't show in movie too. . .like when M. Giry "strangles" J. Buquet with rope, suddenly both of them swing their heads to the side as if they just heard something that shocked them. Yes, I agre that Chrsitine always loved her Angel. Even in the apparent tragic romance plot I always believed she loved her Angel. :) I think she loved Raoul--but as a childhood friend, and acquaintance, someone to help save her from the darkness (which was Phantom spirit, not her angel.) But she was romantically in love with her Angel--the marriage kind of love. In companion book, Joel Schumacher says this in interview (P. 49): "Christine's relationship with Raoul is really her romantic awakening as a teenager. But I think that her pull towards the Phantom is a very sexual, very deep, soulful union." The first describes a schoolgirl crush; the second describes the kind of love that leads to marriage. And JS directed the movie, so this must have been his idea in showing some of the closeups and scenes he did. And planting the clues that they showed. :) Here's a link to get the companion book at Wal Mart: Amazon and other online stores have it too. :)
2/4/2006 . Edited 2/4/2006 #3
PhantomsLadyofTheNight
Thanks! I may do that! Do you have the movie soundtrack? It has that quote from JoelSchumacher. PhantomsLadyofTheNight P.S. Please e-mail me back.
2/4/2006 #4
hgkdkjgnfofnkgksndfgkfdng
The bit about the name being of particular importance doesn't make any sense. After all, the names do change thorugh the different stories. In the orignal book, Raoul was the Vicomte, while his brother Phillipe was the Viscount. In going by the account, Raoul's name woulnd't change because his brother would gain the title of Count. So everything makes sense in that sense. In the movie, they don't care to mention if Raoul has a brother or not, so we can make no conclusions about such a thing. Though I found that whole thing very interesting. ^_^
2/5/2006 #5
Angel of Mystery-145
Kaledena-- thanks so much for your reply! :) I'm a bit confused--you said in the book that Phillipe was the viscount and Raoul the vicomte??? Vicomte is the French word for the English title of Viscount--both names are the same title--so did you mean that G.L.s Phillipe was the count?? My guess is ALW didn't want to clutter up his POTO adaption with a secondary character since no mention of his name was made. **shrugs** However, both Raoul's parents were mentioned in main movie, showing his father was still alive. Was his father alive in the G.L. book??? (I can't remember. it's been 9 months since i read it.) Regarding the headstone at the end: the wife of a viscount is a viscountess. Likewise the wife of a vicomte is a vicomtesse. Only the wife of a count is a countess. Which doesn't explain why they called Raoul a vicomte at the beginning, if he really had married Christine. Close-ups in a movie are used to signify something of importance; I really don't think they made such a goof in using a wrong title for her name, since that headstone would have had to have been created for the movie by a set designer (?) and then approved. The camera panned on it --and just so we wouldn't miss a thing, it showed another slow pan of the words "Countess de Chagny, Beloved wife and mother". Just my thoughts. :)
2/5/2006 #6
Exitiabilis
WOW, you really triied hard with this! I love it, you must really love POTO to pay so much attention to detail!
2/6/2006 #7
PhantomsLadyofTheNight
Hi! I was just wondering, does anyone think it's possible that Meg was the daughter of the Phantom? Someone said that there seemed like there could have been some kind of realationship, some kind of love between the Phantom and Madame Giry. Does anyone think it's possible that Madame Giry was in love with the Phantom? Does anyone think it's possible that Meg was the daughter of the Phantom? PhantomsLadyofTheNight
2/7/2006 #8
hgkdkjgnfofnkgksndfgkfdng
I wish I could say that it could happen- some hope for Erik. But alas, Erik never did feel love of any kind. It says very clearly in the book (I really do make my thoughts from the book a lot) that Erik never had a woman's love before. VERY clearly, as he's yelling at Christine.... Yep, here's Kaledena's post and I'm able to edit on it too. How do we bring this to the moderators attention??? Other people shouldn't be able to edit others' posts. yikes. . .LOL
2/8/2006 . Edited by Angel of Mystery-145, 2/11/2006 #9
PhantomsLadyofTheNight
Hi! honeyphan, did read the whole companion? I thought from what I read that it was great! [email protected](PhantomsLadyofTheNight)
2/8/2006 #10
Angel of Mystery-145
Hi all! :) No, I don't think that the Phantom had an affair with M. Giry or that Meg is his daughter--in the movie he sings "This face which condemns me to wallow in blood, has also denied me the joys of the flesh. . ." So by those words, he's never known a woman. I read only the part of the companion book dealing with the movie, the interviews, and the original screenplay--I also read the part about Gaston Leroux. :) It's pretty cool. PLOTN--pay close attention to the pictures. See if you can figure what is "off" on each movie shot. Here's a hint on one--on the PONR one, where he's holding Christine against him, not only is the lighting green instead of red, but her right arm is inside the waistband of her gold airy skirt. (P. 128)
2/8/2006 . Edited 2/8/2006 #11
PhantomsLadyofTheNight
Thanks! I'll take a close look? In the "hidden plot" assuming they ended up together, do you think that meant she left then came back. I noticed it appeared like she had already decided to stay with him, but then he told her to leave, perhaps out of fear for her safety. What's your theroy on how it happend? Thanks again, [email protected](PhantomsLadyofTheNight) P.S. Please e-mail me if you can.
2/8/2006 #12
PhantomsLadyofTheNight
Hi! I read your story! It's great! Are you going to write more to it phantomsLadyofTheNight
2/11/2006 #13
Angel of Mystery-145
Hi PLOTN-- you asked: In the "hidden plot" assuming they ended up together, do you think that meant she left then came back. I noticed it appeared like she had already decided to stay with him, but then he told her to leave, perhaps out of fear for her safety. What's your theroy on how it happend? *** Here is a part from the scene summary that I think will answer this. Remember, a lot of former scenes led to these conclusions. :) Also, some thing can't be seen well unless they're paused, or zoomed, or slow motioned--if you want to check out your own DVD. :) They didn't make this easy. (there are pictures in my summary thread too, why so many references to pictures and saying to look at them, etc, but there's no way to show those here.): One more thing--I refer to him as "Angel" because Phantom was someone else and they never called him Erik--but he was only a man. :) DOM--after she gives him her ring: In the last shot, he looks all the way up at her, as if he still cannot believe it, and she also smiles at him, as if to assure him she means it. Her expression softens, as if all she wants to do is stay with him, but she turns to go. Now she looks very sad—because she knows she has to leave him. All this time she’s been holding his hand—because you see her pull hers away as she walks from him, and you see that his other hand had at some point moved to cover hers. She did all she could to show him her heart, that she wanted her Angel, but she had to walk away because she didn’t want any part of the darkness that was phantom. She has given him a choice. Now he must make the decision. He’s sad to see her go; he cries. What she’s asking of him is very hard, to leave a way of life he’s known forever as his protection, and to go into the light with her. He doesn’t know if he can do it. He’s vulnerable—he’s always depended upon the Phantom for protection, ever since he was a child, and without Phantom he doesn’t see how he will survive. (This is shown in first part of DOM when he sings how people treat him.) A shadow crosses his face—but she is in the boat already, because we still see that shadow as she sings. Phantom is trying to win him back and get him to stay in the darkness. But as Angel hears her first words, the shadow starts to disappear until it is totally gone . . .He closes his eyes, tears fall onto his cheeks, he swallows. Again, her love—in song this time—has made the Phantom flee. Maybe Angel resisted the evil spirit, after hearing her song. But at the same time, Angel is probably wondering how she thinks she can help him live in the light—after all, she has been so fearful before this night—and while he’s amazed by her growth to face the darkness head-on to prove her love and free him, he probably still sees no way their dream of a life together can happen. Before I go on—an important thing about the song. Notice where Christine starts singing: Christine: “Say you'll share with me one love, one lifetime . . .” This is NOT the beginning of the AIAOY song. This is the line directly following the lines that Angel sang in PONR, “Anywhere you go let me go too, Christine, that’s all I ask of (you). . .” She took up where the Angel left off and is answering the proposal he made in PONR AND his plea of her leading him to the light—she is singing ONLY to him, and we see more proof of this in a bit. Again, when he hears her song of love to him, further showing what she meant by giving him the ring, further trying to draw him to her--the look on his face isn’t sad as if he’s lost her. It’s as if he’s being faced with a difficult decision. By his smile he gave her after she gave him the ring, he is amazed by what she’s telling him and admires the woman she’s become, but he still can’t see her as his protector. Especially, when he’s always been hers, and even she was susceptible to the Phantom. But then. . . He hears Raoul. And his eyes flick wider in surprise, as if now he’s fully alert. For he never expected Raoul to sing to him in his mind—but Raoul now knows Music, has seen him, and realizes he truly exists and is not a dream of Christine’s. The memory/idea of his childhood he has found is a living man. (We know Raoul can do this telepathy thing too, from WHYBMH and when he’s running into the stables before cemetery scene.) He’s seen Christine and the king together in PONR, and then to make it even clearer to him, he’s seen Christine’s decision in how she went forward to the Angel and kissed him so passionately--and he realizes that she truly belongs to the king. Her heart is his. Rauol doesn’t have the stance of someone who's happy. He seems defeated, resigned, but he’s made a vow to Christine as her priest to always protect her, and now he’s telling the king— “Say the word and I will follow you.” (When he sings this, Christine is looking toward him then looks away. He has just promised to serve the king if he wills it, and I imagine she was surprised to hear that. You can tell the Angel is): Another thing about this line. On the rooftop, Christine sings it; here Raoul does. But if it was just him singing to Christine there would be no reason for him to sing it since it appears she is going with him. Why should he sing to her—“Say the word and I will follow you”—since she IS with him in the boat? What word needs to be said? It’s because this was not all about Christine—it’s about the king too. The priest of light has just offered to serve the king. And suddenly, as the above pictures show, NOW the Angel comes out of his bedroom, his face a mask of shock. He didn't come out when she was singing--only when Raoul did. Angel is obviously stunned, as if he cannot believe that Raoul would forgive him, even offer to protect him. In Raoul, he has met a worthy opponent. He knows that with Raoul to serve him, he has a real chance outside, in the light, since Raoul is a priest and a protector of those who serve the light. Suddenly the idea of a life with Christine doesn’t seem unreachable any longer. We also see Angel is cupping the ring. Christine: “Share each day with me, each night, each morning...” When she sings this, she turns around and we can now see her mouth is not moving. She is singing in her Angel’s mind, as they’ve shown her doing twice before in the movie. And we already know he can sing in hers. Right before they switch to him again, we see her face and she looks as if she is about to cry. They are about to turn the corner, and she knows she may be looking at her Angel for the last time. She knows he might not make the choice she wants him to make, and her brow sails upward in the middle, her face very sad. It is then they switch to the Angel. This is not the face of a happy woman (this is in two different zooms, since I’ve found that some can see better smaller and some bigger.): Angel: “You alone, can make my song take flight.” (The soothing way he sings this is as if he is reassuring her. He even smiles a bit, his lips turning up at one corner, as if to say, “it’s all right. Don’t cry. You’re the only woman for me, the reason for my existence. I’m coming to you.”) Notice that he sings the end of MOTN to the AIAOY song—the ending line has the same tune as “Anywhere you go let me go too”—He already is going with her so doesn’t need to ask any longer—now it’s all about reassuring her that he will be there. Spanish subtitles in movie: Christine: Say you'll share with me one love, one lifetime Spanish: Say that in our life there is hope (She is asking him to give her assurance that it will all work out and he will come to her.) Say the word and I will follow you... Spanish: Say the word and I will go where you go Christine (looking back at him, and here we see her mouth isn't moving--she's singing in his mind): Share each day with me, each night, each morning... Spanish: If you are with me, nothing else matters (She's saying no matter what has happened if he is with her, that is all that is important to her. ) Angel: You alone, can make my song take flight. Spanish: Only you inspire me, that's the truth (sounds as if he's reassuring) It's over now the music of the night! Spanish: My music in the night will die! (Yep, and it did. His love/dependency on the darkness dies--and it's here he makes his decision.) We see Angel—no ring in his hands. And judging from what I believe this to mean—when the ring disappeared from around her neck before she kissed Raoul at Masquerade Ball, and when it disappeared from her hands in DOM, and we know she’d planned to marry Angel by her words and actions in clues—the disappearance of the ring means “acceptance of the promise.” So this is a clue that he has accepted Christine’s silent plea—to join her in the light, and by doing so, he will also marry her, as they both want. And we see more proof of this in a minute. First, look at the red and gold throne—very visible now. A king’s throne. There is also what looks like a dragon to the right of it, showing just who ruled the king. But the king has had enough—and you now see FOUR candles lit, when before he went into bedroom there were only three lit. The Angel is back. And he’s about to put an end to the darkness of his life—the music of the night is over—because now he wants the light and a better path, with Christine. He’s mad—at himself for letting it come to this, at Phantom for deceiving him that Christine could never love him without mask, etc. He storms down the stairs, and, are you ready for this? Look at the mannequin. We have been shown repeatedly in this movie that it symbolizes Christine. And we already know it has the veil on—when before it was on the floor. But one thing—he is not looking at the mannequin. Remember the importance of how they've shown the POVs before. We are seeing it from the mannequin’s—or rather, Christine’s POV. Just as we did when she was looking at him earlier when he sang “An eternity of this before your eyes”—the veil was missing then. She wasn’t ready, because the darkness first had to be broken over his life. But now she’s ready, because he’s about to break the darkness. We are seeing this in her POV, not his. He pays absolutely no attention to the mannequin whatsoever, but as he comes into view, through the mannequin, we can see how Christine is now feeling. He’s singing about breaking the darkness over his life, he’s accepted the ring, and when he comes into the mannequin’s view— The mannequin smiles. It actually goes from an unsmiling expression to a smiling one as he walks by—and I believe this is to show Christine’s feelings at the time--she is overjoyed. Her Angel made the decision she wanted, and she is wearing HIS veil, waiting for him to join her. Just like the statue of Venus (also symbolizing Christine) smiled at the cemetery during sword fight—the Christine mannequin now gives the same slight smile that she always did when they showed Christine herself in the dress as the mannequin in MOTN and STYDI. The mannequin even has more of a lifelike look to her face, reminding me of a blushing happy bride. First, here are two pictures of what it looked like earlier in DOM—and then a series of pics showing as the smile gets bigger. When he comes into the mannequin’s view, the smile gets biggest, though it is always slight as Christine's was. Christine is happy. Her Angel is coming to her. Also, this is just like what happened with Isabella bursting out of her bridal chamber in her wedding gown after Robert was freed from the evil spirit and the white light flooded in the chamber in the opera Robert le Diable by Meyerbeer (mentioned in auction scene at beginning of movie, and a clue and mirror to the DOM scene). When Angel sings “Music” we see what looks like a blue music staff zip across both his head and toward his heart only on that one word--music. And I believe this is a strong clue to show us he IS Music. Perhaps it shows both in his middle and his head because Christine is also Music, and that’s where it shows for her throughout all of movie—her head--but now they are one and soon will be joined in marriage, so now it shows in Angel in both places. And the blue ray of light is thick and STRONG, stronger than it's ever been before. Where one mirror was uncovered before, now two are uncovered. I’m not totally sure what this means, but I have an idea. When they always showed two candles lit (when before it had shown differently), it was when Phantom was in full control of Angel in DOM. So I think this is symbolic of breaking the control over him--but he smashes THREE mirrors. Three = Phantom spirit power as I’ve shown in scenes before. So he is not only breaking the possession Phantom had over him, but also breaking the power that he had both over Angel’s life AND over the kingdom and people there. In the symbols chart of objects and their meanings--mirrors represent magic and were used in divination. We saw how that shadow came when Christine uncovered the mirror, and then they showed the spirit/specter between those mirrors, which were suddenly wide apart. By breaking these mirrors Angel is putting an end to his kingdom of darkness and to the phantom’s control over him. As he breaks the first mirror, we see in the mirror’s reflection fire fall from inside the lair—first time we’ve seen it fall INSIDE his lair. A lot of it begins to fall, as he breaks the second mirror as well—you can see it in the reflections of the first mirror. Also, when he goes to third mirror—you see fire fall in second mirror. Now, I want you to think about something. When Raoul looked down, down, down that long stairwell, it was stone. When the Phantom/Angel took Christine down the levels below the opera house, it was stone. He is many levels below the opera house. Fire cannot fall through stone, and they showed no wood. The fire that is falling is not from the opera house. (Also, we see proof of this in b&w scenes—the opera house, and its floors, are still intact.) The fire that is falling is a spiritual fire—IOW, he is putting an end to the darkness—the evil magic—and THAT kingdom is falling. This also fits in with the Phoenix (his bed)—the royal bird who sets itself on fire to arise reborn. Likewise, Angel’s kingdom of darkness is now falling by his own hand. Before this, the fire was falling outside the lair, AFTER the light entered is when it started doing that. (Remember how the Phantom blocked the light out in POTO/MOTN by putting down the gate??) But NOW Angel is destroying his kingdom—and the fire falls inside his home to show this. And like the phoenix, he will arise spiritually reborn, better than he was—going toward the light—and leaving the darkness behind. We see proof of this in a minute. And so, he smashes the mirrors. As he does, the music is triumphant. It is not sad music at all—it is music of the Angel taking the upper hand for the first time in his life and destroying the evil that kept him bound. He is the only one who could do that. Christine could not do that for him. She could point him in that direction—and did—but he had to make the choice. And he has done so. He uncovers the last mirror—and hits it twice in one area. Twice again—two times, breaking control. There are faces of screaming skulls and demons if you look carefully and frame by frame it—and that makes perfect sense. Because he is breaking the kingdom of darkness, so I would expect to see these things in a mirror that represented evil and magic. The things are screaming because he is putting an end to their power over him. Also, we see a red devilish face that looks like part of the curtain, to the far left—it has a defeated expression. Angel has a “there, now it’s finished” look on his face as the shards of the last mirror splinter—a satisfied look. And now we see something, as he has broken through the last mirror—a ray of white light is shining behind him that was NOT in his lair before this. It is shining into the tunnel, as if pointing the way. He glances back—I feel it was to look once more upon what had been his home for 22 years. It’s natural to look back. He is leaving everything behind—everything that was the old Angel, including the memory of his childhood symbolized in his music box—and is going forward, into the light. Also, he could have spotted the mob, but somehow I don’t think so. And we know where the Phantom is. . . We see the Angel walk over the shards, but two very important things to note in the closeup— a) there is light on his feet. B) These are not the same tall black boots he wore seconds before—these are shoes with spats—showing he is changing his footwear. He is no longer allowing the Phantom to guide him or protect him. The boots are gone—now he has shoes on. So, guess who is his new protector? Raoul. Raoul has been shown as symbolic of shoes, as I’ve shown earlier in movie—because shoes protect the feet, which are symbolic of an upright soul. And he is the priest of light. A priest protects the soul. Also the Little Lotte song points to him being symbolic of shoes, as do the closeups of shoes, AND Christine was always barefoot when alone with Phantom/Angel (I believe there are dual meanings for this, but it’s partly because Raoul symbolized shoes and Phantom/Angel didn’t want her under Raoul’s protection.). Hope that wasn't too much and I didn't lose you completely. :) You got a lot of the grand finale! LOL
2/11/2006 . Edited 2/11/2006 #14
Angel of Mystery-145
Hi! I read your story! It's great! Are you going to write more to it phantomsLadyofTheNight *** Thank you, PLOTN! :) Yes, I'm still writing it. I plan to post another chapter within the next couple of days.
2/11/2006 #15
PhantomsLadyofTheNight
Thanks so much! I love it! I don't know about you, but I have never understood, how anyone could think that she did NOT love him! Regardless of how it ended. I think the problem is some people don't want to or CAN'T believe it, because he is disfigured. I still don't totally get by the phantom/angel thing though. Is that supposed to mean, that he had a splint personality? Again, great ideas! PhantomsLadyofTheNight
2/11/2006 . Edited by Angel of Mystery-145, 2/11/2006 #16
Angel of Mystery-145
***Tell you what I could do, if you'd like. . . I can make a thread for each of the scenes here--and copy what I put on the scene summary thread since some of it got wiped out when WB were having problems on their board. Only problem is you can't see the pics if I do that. I think a lot of people can't stand the thought of her with someone who murdered, opposed to the heroic-type Raoul, but no, he didn't have a split personality. Remember, this is a fantasy, and ALW and JS stressed that in companion book. Think of Lord of the Rings movie--also a fantasy. Evil spirits tried to take over, one kept a king in chains bound to his lies and deceit, etc. . . Same kind of thing was happening here. An evil spirit of the kingdom had deceived the king into believing he was a friend. From Masquerade song: "Seething shadows breathing lies" (phantom is another word for shadow) "You can fool any friend who ever knew you" Okay--I think the forums are doing something weird. I thought I was replying to your post awhile ago--but it edited it instead! How can i edit YOUR post???? Yikes, does that mean others can edit mine?? [eek] LOL
2/11/2006 . Edited 2/11/2006 #17
PhantomsLadyofTheNight
I don't know if that can happen! I would love it if you would make me some threads! I have always thought she loved the Phantom. From what I have read, most people DO believe that she loved him, even if she did leave with Raoul in the end. I have also thought that even if they were not together in this life, they would be together in the next. Do you have The Lord of The Rings? I have all three movies. I also noticed at the beginning of your story you put a Bible verse. Are you a Christian? I'm not trying to be too personal, I am just wondering. I am a Christian myself. Thanks again, PhantomsLadyofTheNight
2/11/2006 #18
PhantomsLadyofTheNight
Hi! Again I would love it if you made me some threads for the hidden plot. I have read your whole story so far. It's good! When Are you going to add somemore! Thanks again, PhantomsLadyofTheNight
2/12/2006 #19
Angel of Mystery-145
Yes to both questions. :) I plan to add the next chapter possibly tonight or tomorrow. As to the threads, I have to redo Hannibal--we found so much more I haven't put there yet. But I will soon, and I'll start posting it all here too.
2/12/2006 #20
PhantomsLadyofTheNight
That's great! I can't wait to read it! PhantomsLadyofTheNight
2/13/2006 #21
PhantomsLadyofTheNight
Hi! Your story is great! When are you planning on putting more up? I can't wait to read more! I love it! Like I said, no matter what happened she loved him and no matter what it took they would find their way back to each other! Thanks again, PhantomsLadyofTheNight
2/15/2006 #22
PhantomsLadyofTheNight
Hi! Someone said that Christine mouthed the words "I Love You" To Raoul right before she went up to the Phantom and kissed him. I have noticed her saying something too, but I'm not sure what it was. They claimed that the Phantom had her soul, but Raoul had her heart! I don't think she could have love Raoul romantically or she wouldn't have kissed the Phantom so passionatly PhantomsLadyofTheNight P.S. Please respond as soon as you can.
2/16/2006 #23
Freedom's Song
hm...these are all some very interesting points. While I believe in some of them, the rest I'm not so entirely sure of. Did anyone (such as ALW or JS) say there was a hidden plot? Or are you just assuming there is? And if you are, why?
3/31/2006 #24
carthagegirl
I think that's one of my biggest problems with this whole thing. I had never heard of it before this. Why wouldn't ALW or JS say something if they had a 'hidden plot'? At least some kind of clue? I guess that the fact that this is supposed to be a direct translation of the show also gives me pause. None of this is applicable to the show, so why should we believe it in the movie? If this is how they really wanted the story to end, why didn't they just do it that way to begin with? I guess I just have a lot of questions! =)
5/10/2006 #25
Angel of Mystery-145
Yes, I understand your hesitance. I am the type of person who has to see things for myself and doesn't believe it's so, just because someone tells me. Believe me, I know what you mean about being skeptical. But after finding the clues and the definition for them and what it all means--the thing is, everything that didn't make sense in the movie before starts to make sense. It's not just random. If it didn't fit, I'd toss it--but the thing is, it all fits together and does make sense. Too much to be coincidence. I don't know what was in the minds of the creators, but maybe they just wanted to give people an alternate ending--or maybe it had something to do with ALW's breakup with Sarah, since he identified with the character of the Phantom (as it says on the special editions dvd). I'm not forcing anyone to believe--I'm just showing what we found, the research of what we found it all means, and letting everyone decide for themselves. I lay out the facts they show--the clues or mistakes, whatever name you want to call them--and show the research of what we found each thing to mean--the phoenix bed for example (it was not a "swan bed," but the phoenix has been referred to in the information we found during research as "a holy swan of song." I also give our theory of how it all fits to form the story and how other clues support each other, but i make it clear when I do that it's what we think. Here's the new link of where I put this, since the old WB boards shut down last month. I'm only up to Little Lotte/the Mirror scene, but hope to have the rest of the scenes up there soon!
5/10/2006 . Edited 5/10/2006 #26
AngelicRose8
yay. lol
6/12/2006 #27
Agas Spenjahgra VII
Hey fren. I want to ask how can I get a Phantom Companion book online. Do I have to type in my bank account or what cause I like the Hidden Plot sooooo much I wanna check on it myself
8/11/2006 #28
Angel of Mystery-145
[q]Hey fren. I want to ask how can I get a Phantom Companion book online. Do I have to type in my bank account or what cause I like the Hidden Plot sooooo much I wanna check on it myself[/q] Hi LonesomeGurlAngelofDeath-- :) You can get it through Amazon too--and you'd need to give your credit card number. Or you can do a search on ebay for a sellers store, and pay through Paypal if you have an account there. I went through WalMart, (online) Here's a link to the book on Amazon: Barnes & Noble also has it, Wal Mart, and others. I just posted this on another thread, but I realized this is the forum I started--lol--so I'm going to post it here too. :) We are finding that each of the languages tells one portion of the hidden story--we have translations of the Spanish, the French, and now are getting them for the Italian. Here's a few samples: From Masquerade song-- Masquerade! You can fool any friend who ever knew you! Mascarade! Sous ce loup, votre frère ignore que c’est vous Masquerade! Beneath this wolf, your brother knows that it’s you And it fits with the hidden plot, even the wolf part. :) Here's another part: Masquerade! Take your fill, let the spectacle astound you! Mascarade! Statuaires, ces esquisses n’attendent que vous. Masquerade! Statuaries, these shapes (esquisses can also mean ghosts; spirits) that move/wait for you. In WYWSHA, a statue follows/waits for Christine as she sings, and other statues do odd things in movie. Each set of foreign subtitles gives hints that others don't--and tells a different part of the hidden plot. The Spanish focuses on her always asking Erik to come out of the darkness and into the light, him asking her to see the light, to help him...it speaks of the cross (burden) they both bear and the need to be freed from it. And it shows their love. The French very strongly shows the love between them--very sensual but sweet too (they call each other Dear Angel instead of Strange Angel, for instance)--and also talks of how Erik and Christine must both pay the price, as well as talk of altars and sacrfices. from WSS/Masquerade-- ERIK: Your chains are still mine– you belong to me! Tes chaines sont le miennes- nous paierons le prix! Your chains are mine– we will pay the price! And it all makes sense for the hidden story. But these are my favorites from Wandering Child/AOM (though PONR has some great stuff, DOM too): Spanish (translation at bottom): CHRISTINE: Angel of Music, I denied you ERIK: Angel of Music, you denied me CHRISTINE: Ángel de música di cuánto ERIK: Ángel de música di cuánto (BOTH:) "Angel of Music, I gave so much” CHRISTINE: Turning from true beauty ERIK: Turning from true beauty CHRISTINE: ¿Cuánto amor tú pides? ERIK: ¿Cuánto amor tú pides? (BOTH:) How much love do you request? French: CHRISTINE: Angel of Music, I denied you Ange de musique, mon âme est à vous 1st translation: Angel of Music, my soul is yours 2nd translation: Angel of Music, my soul (heart) is with you. ERIK: Angel of Music, you denied me Ange de musique, ton âme est à moi 1st transtlation: Angel of Music, your soul is mine 2nd translation: Angel of Music, your soul (heart) is with me. Italian (from soundtrack): CHRISTINE: Turning from true beauty sempre avrò il tuo amore Always I will have your love ERIK: Turning from true beauty Sempre avrai il mio amore Always you will have my love CHRISTINE: Angel of Music, My protector Angelo, più non ti respingo Angel, I reject you no more ERIK: Angel of Music, do not shun me Angelo, più non mi respingi, Angel, reject me no more, CHRISTINE: Come to me strange angel aprimi il tuo regno You open to me your kingdom ERIK: Come to your strange angel Apro a te il mio regno... I open to you my kingdom… The Italian goes deeper into hints that Erik is a king (remember, this is a fantasy and the companion book even said that twice), and it also focuses more on their love...PONR is a real eye opener--in the Spanish and French too! lol Below is the website of the hidden plot subforum if you want to look further; I've only posted up through Wandering Child/AOM as of yesterday, but am trying to get the scene summaries up there as fast as I can: (The other link to the old Warners bros. board--no longer in service--is not updated and does not contain so much more we found, so go to the link above instead.)
8/12/2006 #29
Agas Spenjahgra VII
dear fren, thx. But suppose I don't have a credit card. What should I use to buy it? I can't use my parents' credit card number cause they'll kill me for sure.
8/13/2006 #30
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