Jenny&Gibbs
A place to talk about Jenny and Gibbs. Those who do not like Jenny or Gibbs are not welcome.
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MDDC26

Can anybody tell me, when and how Jenny left Gibbs after their France mission? I don't seem to recall if this was ever mentioned. Could someone please let me know if it has and how?

Thanks very much,

Mel

12/18/2008 #1
VerityFrancesB

Thanks to Elflordsmistress for clarifying this!

She wrote him a Dear John letter, put it in the pocket of a coat he bought her and walked off the plane that was meant to be taking them back to DC, leaving Gibbs and the coat on the plane! *sobs*

Anyway, hope that helps...

V!

xox

12/18/2008 #2
4sweetdreams

Did you guys see how dark Gibbs hair is in those flashbacks? Other Paris (London) fashbacks his hair is silver gray. Just struck me as odd.

You covered the when and how... I'm still trying to piece together the why. What is this "Five Point Plan" (good name for a story)? Why didn't he fit? When she left did she think she would ever see him again? All speculation, I know. Just wanted to hear others thoughts! :)

Reggie

12/18/2008 #3
orphanactress818

Really?? Verity, I thought there was this one flashback where she called the cops on him or something. You know, the one where he's being arrested and then he sees her walking on the other side of the street and he glares at her.... Or, is that a different thing??? *scratches head*

Wow. Did they really say how she left him?!?!?! I totally didn't even know. Darn! It's so close to my "Starts With Goodbye" fic that I could have changed it easily to be completely canon!

Gosh! I didn't even know that that's what happened. *smacks head*

But...

*hee hee* I'm a REALLY good guesser! :)

12/22/2008 #4
ParisNeverEnded

What i thought it was that she left him a dear john letter and went back home and to her next mission! The coat scene was a different bit

1/28/2009 #5
MDDC26

...I'm not really sure, but if that's true why would he have remembered that she left her coat on a plane all those years later? I mean, it's not like it was a major occurence..

Just my thoughts :)

1/28/2009 #6
ParisNeverEnded

yes but this is paris undercover and Jenny he must of remembered basically everything i don't know

1/29/2009 #7
ilovenascar

I like the idea of it being a note left in her coat. I hadn't thought about that before.

2/1/2009 #8
ilovenascar

One word: Casablanca.

2/19/2009 #9
honeydust9251

I think the 5 point plan was her plan for advancement in the agency. If you recall she tells Tony that her entire life has been on a fast track and she sometimes wished it had gone slower. Maybe because of Gibbs?

3/23/2010 #10
TheBreakfastGenie

Yep. As far as I can tell, she was very ambitious, kind of a workaholic. And I don't think she ever really planned to have a relationship with it. Then, she met Gibbs. But then she decided she could only have one or the other. That struck me as odd, Gibbs is a workaholic too, it's perfect, but she apparently didn't realize that... *starts crying* so I guess she left, and he didn't try to find her... and then all that stuff in seasons 3-5 happened, and things were getting SO tense it had to be resolved somehow... and then... Judgment Day... *breaks down in sobs* It two and a half years ago but I can't get over it. I miss Jen so much, I miss the Jibbs teasing, I just want her to be alive. Actually, I would have been OK with it if he had actually gotten to talk to her or something. Or if that darn letter had been finished, explaining how she was wrong and she really did love him all along... *daydreams* ...but even that was snatched from us poor shippers. Anyway... Yeah, the five point plan. She convinced herself she couldn't be with him AND meet her career goals. Hmf. She was so wrong! Agh! *crying again*

11/19/2010 #11
JibbsGal1

I'm so with you on all of your statements here. Maybe we'd be able to move on if there'd been some closure. SOMETHING....or if Gibbs carried a quarter of the angst about Jen that he did about Kate. It's really like a slap in the face to us Jibbs fans the way it was handled. The only thing I can possibly think of to make this up to us is if maybe there's finally an episode where he deals with it, perhaps when he finally finishes his next boat and names it Jenny? :)

1/11/2011 #12
TheBreakfastGenie

It's been my personal "fanon" that the next boat is named Jenny since I found out he finished the Kelly. :) I really agree with you on the "slap in the face" part. A lot of episodes showed that Gibbs really cared about what happened to her, and being on his team is a forever deal, she had been his partner and now he's going to try to protect her as long as he lives. It seems really weird that Gibbs didn't show angst over losing her, or hardly any. I don't think this was deliberate because they kind of hit the ground running with the whole mole plot thing and Gibbs was busy trying to get the team back. I sincerely feel this would have been handled better if season five had been full-length but the writers' strike shortened it to 18 episodes and they had a lot to fit in. It still hurts though that Jenny appears to be forgotten. I have counted three instances of her name being used since she died. One was in Last Man Standing when Gibbs said "you didn't break my team up because of Jenny's death," one was in Moonlighting when they ask Susan Grady "so Director Vance about your other job?" and she says "it was cleared with Director Shepard I started in what, 2007?" and of course Enemies Domestic, the closest we've gotten to a real mention. I kept hoping M. Allison Hart would like find a picture of her or something and confront Gibbs about it so he'd be forced to talk about it and give use fans some closure. But now Mallison is gone and I REALLy don't want her back. :P I just wish we'd seen Gibbs grieve, like you said, he agonized over Kate. He loved Jenny, too, people. The fact that they had feelings for each other was pretty much canon, if you think Mike Franks is reliable.

1/11/2011 #13
JibbsGal1

I'm glad to have agreement -- the next boat must be named Jenny! :) But I disagree with you that it wasn't deliberate...to me it feels VERY deliberate. Gibbs didn't get busy doing other things on his own...the writers had to write that. ;) And they could have taken a moment...anywhere...over the last few years to just take a second have him FEEL.....have something happen that just smacks him in the head and makes him realize all over again that she is gone. But they haven't. Now, it took them a long time to deal with Vance's shredded memo so I guess I could have patience and think maybe there's something in the works for down the line but I just don't trust them. It all felt so deliberate (there's that word again) that absolutely no one (except a rare second for Abby) had a reaction to her death. Hell, Mike Franks almost seemed the most broken up about it but that could be guilt. And they threw us a bone by having Franks tell Jenny that Jethro must care too since he spoke about her out on their boating trips... I'm glad Jenny at least got that. But in that same episode, it seemed like Jethro was trying to nail Jenny for the Frog's murder. What was THAT about?? If she had lived, would he have confronted her? Would he have turned her in? Yes, those 3 small mentions (thanks for listing!) were not enough. Hell, they mention Kate more. They mention Ari more! This was their leader, Gibbs' former partner/lover....for a show that prides itself about being more character driven, this omission has been positively shameful. Whew! I love that I finally have a place to vent about this! I love this place! :) You guys are great!

1/11/2011 #14
TheBreakfastGenie

Ugh, I know. It might be deliberate or simple oversight. I've seen it before, writers just fail to keep mentioning things. But the lack of mention seems to conspicuous. I think some people were a little mad at Jenny for what she did to Tony (which I forgave her for long ago) during the Frog thing and so the writers thought the fans would be happier if she disappeared. Wrong. Some of us would like to remember.

I don't think Gibbs would have turned Jenny in. It would be awfully hypocritical for him to do that. He's a murderer too, after all. I think Gibbs just wanted answers. He got very angry with Jenny during the Frog case and I always saw it as him being worried about her. He definitely tries to bait her a little bit in early frog episodes, like he's trying to see how bad her obsession is. I believe he wanted to help her and tried but couldn't stop her from obsessing, and he definitely seemed uncertain (or as uncertain as Gibbs gets :P) at the end of Internal Affairs about what actually happened that night. I believe he called her because he needed to know, and even though the file told him he needed to know if she'd say it to him. I don't think he would have turned her in, and he might have tried to comfort her. But, in the immortal words of Jenny Shepard in Dead and Unburied, "We'll never know, will we?" :'(

1/11/2011 #15
JibbsGal1

Oh a lot of people online seem mad at Jenny. There seems to be a lot of hatred for her... maybe people either love her or hate her...very little inbetween. It is amazing how we can still love her since she was written to be a pretty horrible person on the face of it. But I think they outsmarted themselves on that one. I think they wanted us to dislike her, find her obsessed, a bad agent, careless with others' lives, etc...but the back story was so darn compelling, LH's portrayal so multi-layered, that many of us simply saw her as a loyal, passionate yet flawed woman/daughter willing to do anything for her father (quite like Gibbs with Shannon/Kelly) -- and it was endearing and her mistakes or over zealous behavior understandable considering the circumstances. Perhaps I forgave it because I am a Jenny fan first, before a fan of the other characters. If I were a Tony fan first, perhaps I wouldn't be as forgiving, though I do think the assignment introduced him to perhaps the love of his life, so really...why be so pissed? ;) But seriously....

I love your paragraph about Gibbs and his motivation. I'm going to believe that to be the case from here on out, so thank you! That said, it makes it even harder to believe that they never provided any closure for him as far as mourning Jenny. Do you think we have any chance of their revisiting this down the road, a la Vance and that darn memo?

And yes -- that line was pure gold and sums up so much of who they are/were.

1/12/2011 #16
TheBreakfastGenie

I agree, in season 3 Jenny wasn't portrayed as the bad guy but once season 4 started they really didn't want us to like her. I am a fan of the team as a whole but Jenny was one of my favorites and Tony, as much as I love him, never has been. I think some fans are a bit narrow-minded about what happened. Jenny clearly showed remorse about hurting Tony and Jeanne during Internal Affairs. Or was it just me seeing that? I think Jenny was written to be disliked but LH's portrayal was complex and flawed rather than antagonizing. I DEFINITELY agree with your comparison to Gibbs' loyalty to Shannon and Kelly. I guess Gibbs didn't usually get the team into the middle of things, so some fans didn't realize the similarities. (Can't say that anymore with everything that happened last season!) Honestly I just loved the Jenny character so much I forgave her easily. You're probably right that major Tony fans would have a harder time. However they should give her a chance.

Well, we can hope, right? It can't be that hard to have a plot that drags up the past. Happens with Shannon and Kelly stuff all the time. I'd like to say I think there's a chance but I feel like the writers are overlooking all the potential Jenny left behind so I don't know...

It's also very sad. :'( So many unanswered questions!

1/12/2011 #17
JibbsGal1

Season 3 Jenny was fantastic. I think LH really liked that season (other than haircut), or at least that's what I've gathered from her responses on her webpage's message center to people who write her.

It wasn't just you seeing remorse --- I totally agree with you on that one. Probably why I never held it against her. To me, Jenny was one of the most incredible characters I've seen in nighttime television. I really can't wrap my mind around why a writer, who you'd assume wants to write compelling drama, would want to get rid of her. Which of course leads me to think it was personal. The only thing I've been able to guess is that whole showdown between Mark Harmon and Donald Bellisario....I do recall seeing a quote where Lauren was supportive of DB's work...I always wondered if the thin-skinned writers took it personally and then just took revenge on poor Jenny. But I'm not exactly sure of the timing of all that, if that works. But that's my working theory. ;)

It definitely wouldn't be hard to have a plot to deal with this. It's the desire on the part of the writers that I fear is lacking. And again, I get the impression from LH's answers, that she never expects them to ask her back to do anything. She seemed pleasantly surprised she was even used in a flashback after years of no mention.

1/13/2011 #18
TheBreakfastGenie

Could you possibly give me the link to LH's webpage? I would like that very much. :D

I was reading an issue of TVGuide a couple months ago that was about Ziva and Abby, but it had a little part about Kate, Paula, Michelle, and Jenny. What the writers they talked to claimed was that they just decided they were done with the character and killed her off. I don't know if I believe. I have heard about the big fight Mark Harmon and Bellisario had but I don't know if LH got involved. In any case poor Jenny got the worst of SOMETHING behind the scenes. Another possibility is that the writers got bored and wanted to shake things up, so they decided (incorrectly!) that the best way to do that would be to kill someone off, but they couldn't actually kill any of the team, but they wanted a major character, so they settled on Jenny. In any case it's mean. :'(

1/13/2011 #19
JibbsGal1

My pleasure!

Done with the character? Ridiculous. They never explored Jibbs...not even a tiny bit and both deciding it'd never work. NOTHING. Unreal. I think that they were no longer interested in writing her or your bored theory are both plausible. The reasons, beats me...but to say a character is just done...screams to me a lazy writer. I think even a plumber could have come up with more story for Jenny. Please. OK, end rant, lol.

1/13/2011 #20
MDDC26
Correct me if i'm wrong, but i was under the impression Lauren Holly left to focus on other projects, not due to any behind the scenes problems? Jenny's sudden death would then make sense, no? Besides i think there would have been a much bigger build up if the season hadn't been shortened. We would have had the Jibbs, and the exploring of their past i think. Not just this sudden 'omg what just happened?' moment. Anywho. Just my opinion.
1/13/2011 #21
TheBreakfastGenie

Yeah, I know. From what I can tell though it came from the writers, not Lauren, as opposed to Kate's death which happened because Sasha wanted to leave. I always felt there was so much more that could be done with Jibbs too. And they were even making MORE loose ends in Judgment Day! Gibbs got that file, and he tried to call her but *breaks into sobs*. I can't even finish that sentence. And THEN they had the nerve not to leave a finished letter. I might be a little better id Jenny had written him that letter telling him everything, but noooo we just get "Dear Jethro," and nothing else. I felt there was so much potential left, both for Jibbs and just Jenny herself. If they had finished with all that stuff first THEN killed her off I would still be extremely unhappy, but I'd be a little better about it. Also I would have had Gibbs a LOT more involved BEFORE she died. I guess this is proof that not every cloud has a silver lining. Judgment Day was the closest I can remember EVER coming to crying at any work of fiction. OK, I think I'll stop my rant there. It feels really good to be able to discuss this, though. ;)

1/13/2011 #22
JibbsGal1

From everything I've been able to read in various places, and like TheBreakfastGenie said, leaving was not Lauren Holly's idea, not like SA's.

Absolutely feels great to discuss! And I'm so happy I'm able to vent about it here, thank you. And that's why Jibbs fan fiction is such a great outlet. I love them even more after reading several of the stories here and it makes me physically and emotionally sad to see all these great stories and to know we'll never see it fulfilled. And yes -- they opened so many more loose ends with JD. What the heck were those convos that Mike Franks had with Jethro about Jenny? I want to know! I'd also love to hear what Jenny told Ziva about Gibbs when they worked ops together. Sigh...................

1/13/2011 #23
TheBreakfastGenie

I know. There are sooooooooooooo many unanswered questions. Ziva said Jenny "spoke often of Gibbs" in Kill Ari. That's about all we ever hear, that I can recall, and I seriously demand more info than this. And Gibbs and Franks talking about Jenny and we don't get details? Well that isn't right! I agree SO much about the stories. I love them too but they also make me sad. Normally I like tragedy but this is sometimes too much. I think the last word of your post sums up our general feelings about all of this. XP

1/13/2011 #24
JibbsGal1

It was SUCH the ultimate tease. Guess what, viewers -- Gibbs really DOES care about Jenny, even if Mark Harmon hasn't acted that beat in ages (or is just me who feels that way??). BUT.....we're not going to give you any details about that. Sorry! Grrrrrr.....

1/13/2011 #25
TheBreakfastGenie

What exactly do you mean by "acted that beat?" It's probably just me and my sleep-deprived mind but I want to make sure I understand it before I respond. :)

1/13/2011 #26
JibbsGal1

No worries. The beat, meaning the emotional beat....the beat I wanted him to act was that he cared for her. To me, Lauren Holly never resisted a single moment to play attracted to Gibbs, that we KNEW Jenny still had feelings. To me, Mark Harmon didn't play that beat, didn't play that he was attracted to Jenny, that he cared about her...for quite some time before the end. He just always seemed so cold, angry...and not in a "why won't she be with me so I'm going to be pissy" kind of angry either. I can't pinpoint exact scenes/moments but I just remember at times thinking, "Wow, the dialogue is there...he could CHOOSE to show some warmth, but I'm not reading that in his performance."

1/13/2011 #27
JibbsGal1

Yes, I realize I'm replying to myself, lol. But I thought I'd share this paragraph from Lauren Holly's site about her experience on NCIS (which I referenced above about her making a comment about Donald Bellisario, so here it is):

And so we were living back in Los Angeles for two years. I enjoyed being on the show, and began some wonderful friendships. I was saddened that Don Bellisario was forced out, and I missed him a lot. To be honest, now that the work bug had bitten me again, I got bored with my part of the "Director." Then the decision was made to kill me, and boy did they. About five different ways!

For the full NCIS blurb, visit her site here:

1/14/2011 #28
TheBreakfastGenie

Okay, I know this took way longer than usual, I was away skiing for the last two days.

I definitely agree that Lauren acted the Jibbs "beat" a lot more than Mark did. Remember, though, that most of Jenny's significant interaction was with Gibbs, whereas Gibbs has strong relationships with the entire team. Gibbs is also a very hard character to act, requiring a lot of body language and subtleties and that's probably exhausting. My guess is Mark Harmon just let the dialogue do it all whereas Lauren had less to deal with and thus put more into those scene and we got an uneven result. I think some of the time he was angry because of the job, Jenny's professional duties not to allow him to do whatever he wanted (not that that always stopped her, and not that she always tried to be effective when she DID have to restrict him) seemed to p*** him off even more because it was her. He hated that she gave him orders he didn't want to follow because he trained her to be like him and she should understand his position. I believe she disliked having to do things like that to him but kept it quiet and he was so stubborn he didn't figure it out. Or maybe I'm reading way too much into this. (Yeah, I've given it a lot of thought.) Anyway, during season 4 and early season 5 you could site the froggy disaster as the reason he was angry, because he felt hurt and betrayed that she used his team without telling him, and he thought he trained her better than going insane like that (which is a joke considering his behavior in situations like Ari and Hernandez but I'm not getting into that.) though I do agree that he was too cold for too long.

There are a few episodes in which the acting of Jibbs material IS great on the Gibbs end, and the example that immediately comes to mind is Kill Ari. I love the look on his face when Jenny says "Hello, Jethro," in MTAC. It's sort of "here we go again" mixed with something else. And when he says "I missed you, Jen" I always heard a lot of emotion in his voice. He wasn't just messing with her like he sometimes does, he really meant that. It's like he's realizing just how much he missed her. Of course, that scene also has a great moment for Lauren Holly, when Jenny says "On the job it will be Director Shepard, or Ma'am." Like she's almost regretful about being so distant but she feels she must be professional. I also adore the scene in Part 2 when Gibbs gets Jenny to be his backup. I love both of their facial expressions when Jen says "Honestly I'd rather be in bed," her face seemed to suggest she was fantasizing about something other than sleeping than decided going down that road was a mistake when she added "sleeping." And Gibbs' face smacks of "We can arrange that..." I have actually been known to wait around during reruns of KA part 2 (which I;ve seen about 13 times) JUST to see that scene.

I like Gibbs' concern for Jenny during "Jeopardy" but frankly I think it's meager compared to Jen's reaction in "Hiatus." I actually rewatched Hiatus recently just for the Jenny scenes.

So the gist of my rather incomprehensible Jibbs paragraphs is that while I think there are some instances where Gibbs really demonstrates the Jibbs beat and some of his hostility can be excusable, overall I agree with you that Lauren Holly portrays it more.

1/17/2011 #29
TheBreakfastGenie

And here i reply to myself, right after. :P

Did you ever notice how in Kill Ari and a few early episodes Gibbs seems to be the one who's all but offering to start a relationship again and Jenny is remaining distant because she feels the need to be professional whereas later in episodes like Lost and Found Jenny is the one all but offering ("There was a time when I would have asked you to stay, and I wouldn't have taken no for an answer.") and Gibbs is, for some indiscernible reason, pushing her away? He's such and idiot for not saying yes in Lost and Found. Though there was a mini-DiNozzo in her house at the time. I suppose that's an excuse, but why didn't he come back and explain that? Or, maybe he did, and we just don't know. XD my friend and I have fantasized that Gibbs and Jenny were secretly together for a while and she died without anyone (except maybe Franks) ever finding out. Not that it would really work with the canon but it sure would be nice if it did. I smell a new fic. (I do need to write some actual Jibbs fics, considering it's my favorite pair by far. I do have plans for Jibbs as a side plot in my crossover fic but since that's going no where fast...)

1/17/2011 #30
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