Enter the Spider's Web
A forum where you can discuss Spider-Man in all of his incarnations, from mainstream comics to Ultimate Marvel to films to television to "Turn off the Dark" to video games and more.
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Rider Paladin

Actually, I don't. I'm just quoting the title for part 1 of the 90s animated series finale that referenced the negative fan reaction to the Clone Saga, especially as the series finale revolved around a possible alternative outcome for said Clone Saga, namely the "original" Peter Parker going nuts and trying to kill everyone. In a bit of the Saga we don't like to talk about, after finding out that he was the clone after all, Peter briefly went nuts and joined the Jackal because as far as he saw it, his whole life was a lie, the memories and emotions he had weren't "real," he wasn't "real," so what was the point? Of course, Peter eventually regained his senses and helped his clone "brother" the Scarlet Spider stop the Jackal's scheme to release a genetic time bomb that would kill everyone on the planet except for a select few, and life went on largely as normal.

Now, what are we talking about? The Clone Saga, as started in the form of a mirror match between two identically costumed and identically powered Spider-Men that both believed they were the real one. One lived, one died, and the one that lived went on with his life believing that he was the original, until the presumed-dead clone came back into his life, revealing that he had merely become a drifter searching for an identity of his own and had finally come back to New York City to resolve his issues. There was the prerequisite bit of "fight, then team up" that characterizes so many superhero meetings, but Peter Parker and Ben Reilly (the clone) eventually became as close as brothers, despite all the obstacles in their way, like Peter being framed for a series of murders committed by another Spider-Clone and then the revelation that Ben had been the "true" Spider-Man after all, which turned out to be bogus. Despite these hurdles, Ben was a surprisingly well-liked character in his guise as the Scarlet Spider, the Ken to Peter's Ryu, so to speak, and even after his sacrificial death saving Peter's life from the returned-and-even-more-dangerous Norman Osborn, he still retained a faithful fanbase, myself among them, who wished and hoped for his eventual return.

The other Spider-Clone was Kaine, created as the first clone before early onset degeneration rendered him too "flawed" for the Jackal to use in his revenge scheme against the real Spider-Man, leading Kaine to be discarded and left to fend for himself. As his degeneration drove him increasingly mad, Kaine became a dangerous killer, doing whatever he felt it took to survive and stalking Ben Reilly, the more successful clone, out of hatred for the man he felt was the "real" Peter Parker and thus responsible for his misery by virtue of his very existence. They both found their way into New York City, where Kaine began taking out several of Spider-Man's foes out of a misguided desire to protect him, only to be responsible for Peter being imprisoned on suspicion for murders committed by Kaine himself, as they had the same fingerprints. Eventually, though, Kaine and Ben would bury the hatchet, realizing that there was more linking than separating them, and Kaine would fade into obscurity for more than a decade . . . until he was brought back in the Grim Hunt story arc to seemingly die as a sacrifice to protect Peter from being killed by the Kravinoff clan in their mad scheme to resurrect the original Kraven the Hunter.

Then he came back in the recent Spider-Island as a pawn in a plot by the psychic spider-mutant calling herself "the Queen" to gain control of the world by infecting everyone with a virus that caused them to gain spider-like abilities as the prelude to horrific transformations into monstrous spider-mutants comparable to herself, but without the benefit of being able to cloak themselves in human form and subject to her control. Eventually freed from both the Queen's control and the cellular degeneration that had marked him as an imperfect clone, Kaine joined Spider-Man in defeating the Queen and ending her plot, and then quietly departed New York City in the midst of its celebration of Spider-Man as their hero of the hour, feeling that it was time to escape his past and start anew somewhere else. Using a spider-suit modified with third-generation unstable molecules and thus imbued with unique abilities of its own, Kaine would find himself in Houston, Texas acting as the new Scarlet Spider . . . much to his chagrin, as he was very uninterested in being a hero but still ended up acting as one despite his misgivings, proving that there was more of Peter Parker in him than he suspected, or wanted to believe.

The third clone of Spider-Man actually comes from the Ultimate Marvel Universe and is a take on fellow spider-motif Marvel hero Spider-Woman, who could be argued as a distaff --- or female --- version of Spider-Man, like many other heroines were of male heroes at the time. In the main Marvel Universe, the Spider-Women have very little to do with Spider-Man in terms of their origins, though they do derive their inspiration from Spider-Man and possess similar abilities. In Ultimate Spider-Man's version of the Clone Saga, Spider-Woman is a clone of Peter Parker with swapped chromosomes (XX for female, XY for male) and slightly altered powers, but retains most of his memories and experiences. Her costume is essentially a red version of the second Spider-Woman, Julia Carpenter's, costume and that same red color, along with her status as an ally to her world's Spider-Man, could possibly make her a gender-bent homage to the Scarlet Spider. As a cloned "sister" to Peter Parker, Jessica Drew (the name she was assigned and the name of the first and current Spider-Woman in Marvel canon) took the presence of a new Spider-Man on the streets (Miles Morales) in the wake of Peter's death extremely poorly, at least at first.

Going back to the reference I made in this thread title, so long as we're discussing alternate realities, the 90s animated series ended with a two-part tribute to the Clone Saga titled "Spider Wars," taking place mostly in a reality where the presence of the Scarlet Spider had driven Peter Parker to the edge of insanity as a compounding of his previous tragedies, the deaths of his Uncle Ben and later his Aunt May. The revelation by Dr. Connors that Scarlet might be the original after all pushed him into homicidal mania that was later amplified by the possession of the Carnage symbiote into out-and-out genocidal misanthropy, where he became convinced that the world that had so scorned and rejected him deserved nothing more than to be completely obliterated, not just in his reality, but in all others, utterly decimating existence as we knew it. Teaming up with the Kingpin of his world to acquire the necessary resources to build the reality-obliterating weapon he sought and claiming that it was actually a device to broadcast a global mind-control signal, Spider-Carnage was barely stopped at the last minute by the Scarlet Spider and other Spider-Men from other realities, including the one from the main series. Despite that, Spider-Carnage tried again in another reality, one that "our" Spider-Man pursued him into in order to stop him, finally managing to do so by using a still-living Uncle Ben from that same reality to appeal to what was left of his mad doppelganger's inner humanity. It worked, but having had the Carnage symbiote so powerfully bonded to him for so long had separation painfully impossible, forcing Spider-Carnage to take his own life by jumping into a damaged dimensional portal that would disintegrate anything that went in so he could stop himself from ever again posing such a threat to the world that he had realized he still wanted to protect.

That is the story of Spider-Man's major clones. It should also be mentioned that Spider-Carnage also happened in the main Marvel continuity, where Ben Reilly, who had temporarily taken Peter's place as Spider-Man, had been forcibly fused to the Carnage symbiote and spent the arc struggling to hold in its murderous impulses until it could be removed from him and once again contained. Furthermore, it should be mentioned that this thread is the place to discuss the Scarlet Spider (Ben Reilly or Kaine), Ultimate Spider-Woman, any other clone that's appeared in comics (like Spidercide or "Jack"), or even Spider-Carnage and Scarlet Spider of the 90s animated series. Just remember to keep it civil, even in the face of disagreement.

3/12/2012 #1
Wierd. I once had a fanfic idea based off of Neogenic Nightmare where a female Manspider (constradicting names! XD) tried to mutate all of New York. Then I read this page.
4/30/2012 #2
Rider Paladin

Strange minds do think alike. I should also mention that the Queen originally wanted Spider-Man as her mate, and forcibly mutated him into a Man-Spider-like form in order to make him more suitable for her. It didn't work, and he eventually "hatched" out of that Man-Spider form as a more powerful version of his spider-enhanced-but-still-human self. Failing that, she hooked up with the Jackal, who had cloned Spider-Man more than once and thus had a unique understanding of his DNA, to create the spider-virus that would slowly mutate all New Yorkers into spider-mutants.

I should mention, to get somewhat on-topic, what did you think of Peter's clones? Ben Reilly, Kaine, and Spidercide in the main universe, Spider-Woman in Ultimate Marvel, and anybody else you can recall?

4/30/2012 #3

I really liked Spidercide..actually i have this idea to make him and Kaine the same person.

4/30/2012 #4
Rider Paladin

Yeah, in retrospect, they could have made something awesome of Spidercide. Looking at the Prototype games, particularly with how Alex Mercer and James Heller move around the city and fight, it's like seeing Spidercide in action. Specifically, they crawl or run up buildings much like Spider-Man does and their combat abilities are akin to Spidercide's morphing powers, only more extensive and advanced. It'd be awesome to see someone do a new take on Spidercide that was like that, and speaking of your idea, overnerd02, in Advent of Midnight, I had Warren create a symbiote-hybrid clone of Spider-Man that I intended to be known as Kaine but had morphing abilities akin to Spidercide or Alex Mercer (James Heller hadn't shown up yet).

4/30/2012 #5

Yeah i know him..i was wondering who it was going to be at first i thought Spidercide? but then i thought no that's Kaine but i later decided to wait till you officially had him named.

4/30/2012 #6
Unfortunately, I have not seen the other clones/versions. :( Wait- If Spiderman got powers from getting bit by the spider, then happened to the spider? Did "she" (usually the females go outside the nest- I think) mutate?
4/30/2012 #7
Rider Paladin

Most versions have it that the spider just plain died, either from the radiation or because someone squashed it by accident.

4/30/2012 #8
Aw. :( Oh, well.
4/30/2012 #9
Rider Paladin

According to Garth Ennis in his submission for Spider-Man's Tangled Web, a series that was supposed to focus on how Spider-Man/Peter Parker affected the people around him, the spider that bit Peter was found and eaten by one of his worse bullies from school. He was thinking he'd gain powers just like Peter, but he ended up decaying into a mass of spiders that could infest people, eat their insides, and walk around in their skin able to mimic them almost perfectly. He did it first to his mother, then to his father, and then over the years, to God only knows how many others, some of them even being children, growing more and more powerful until one day he confronted Spider-Man with the intent to take over his body and live out the life he felt he deserved --- "Carl King, the Spectacular Spider-Man!" Fortunately for Peter and everyone else, he ended up killing most of his hive when his host body punched an electrical transformer trying to get at Peter, and the last surviving spider that contained his essence was squashed by some careless New Yorker's foot, leaving him forever as the petty, impotent s*** he really was.

4/30/2012 #10
...Well, those spider infestations can get pretty annoying. ;)
4/30/2012 #11
Rider Paladin

Oh, yeah. Really annoying. I try not to kill them, though.

4/30/2012 #12

Me too but man when i see someone kill a spider sends chills down my spine it just disturbing.

4/30/2012 #13
KKD Silver

Funny, at one point, I was thinking of doing a Spidey/Kingdom Hearts Crossover where at one point, Peter Parker becomes a Heartless and his Nobody turns out to be Ben Reilly, and he'll fall in love for Gwen Stacy who'd be Mary Jane's Nobody. Although, this is actually a fairly recent idea.

4/30/2012 #14

That i can totally see.

4/30/2012 #15
KKD Silver

Yea, now if I can only incorporate it into the KH story.

4/30/2012 #16

You could have Spidey becoming Sora's fourth friend who travels with him and have him and Sora get turn into heartless.

4/30/2012 #17
KKD Silver

Yea, but how'd they meet up?

4/30/2012 #18

Have Madame Web send Peter to help Sora telling him that the heartless will endanger his world too.

4/30/2012 #19
KKD Silver

Maybe... or have it look like Webs' world is one of those under attack before Destiny Islands, Spidey gets the keyblade, THEN Madame Web sends him to warn Sora of the incoming Heartless invasion.

4/30/2012 #20

That's way better that'll work.

4/30/2012 #21
KKD Silver

Now if only I could actually write it down if I wasn't too focused on Kamen Rider.

4/30/2012 #22

Work on both at the same time that's what i do writing notes in school.

4/30/2012 #23
KKD Silver

Thanks, but college work ain't like High School. Can't multi-task as easily as I'd like.

4/30/2012 #24

Sorry just trying to help.

4/30/2012 #25
KKD Silver

It's not your fault. It's just that while college is fun, it is tough to do so many things and still come up with the stories you're interested in.

4/30/2012 #26
I'm not usually on computer 'cause I'm mostly restricted to mobile. If I do get my hands on a comouter, I'll still be nervous to write a fanfic about my idea... What do you guys think?
4/30/2012 #27

I see where you're coming from i was too when i wrote my first story but hey i did got it done and now i'm worry free.

4/30/2012 #28
KKD Silver

Whoops! Aren't we off topic here? This is about the Webslinger and his clones, not our problems involving school and getting to the computers.

4/30/2012 #29
Oops. Sorry. :) Anyways, why do all of Spidey's clones get messed up one way or the other?
4/30/2012 #30
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