We're all just Dreaming of Sunshine
I've come to the realization that we fans of Silver Queen's "Dreaming of Sunshine" need a place to properly discuss this incredible story. So here it is, and have fun.
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There's also the posibility that the Uchiha will just go the other route-intead of protecting her, they'll shun her, forbi Itachi contact to her, and look down on her.

Just a thought. They seem like that type.

11/14/2016 #2,581

Yes, Dona, I like that, but I just got super distracted by Moonlit's proposal.

Because yes, Shikako was sickly and shy when she was smol, so of course overprotective!Uchiha happen. So consider, smol!Shika, super annoyed at Itachi/the Uchiha for getting in the way of his twin-time with Kako, realizing, when they get to the academy, that he can't always be right there for his twin - people pick on her, especially the girls (even more than in canon - she's Uchiha Itachi's soulmate. You know the fangirls are jealous and petty). But then some random Uchiha is there to stand up for her, and Shika gets an Idea.

Cue Smol!Shika putting his smol!Jounin Commander skills to a test, running a smol!Uchiha racketeer to secretly protect Shikako.

11/14/2016 #2,582
Good point, Zeich. Though that means the Uchiha massacre just got twice as likely, because shiakako doesn't get to argue against it, and if we assume Itachi still thinks of Shikako as 'his' soulmate and is quietly simmering that the clan is keeping him from her when she makes dangerous decisions she's not ready for, like going to the academy, and if they would just let him near her he could keep her safe. (In gaiden, he basically told his fiancée to give up on her dreams and just not be a shinobi to be safe/promote peace, and didn't get why she was upset with him for that. I could see him wanting to be controlling enough to step in on her decisions.)
11/14/2016 #2,583

Or, Itachi at first want to be close of his soulmate, but very soon avoid her to protect her from his clan conspiracy.

Because of that, young Uchiha don't know she's his soulmate, while elders Uchiha and some of Konoha elite think Itachi is clearly an excellent ninja, look like he is able to put away his emotions for greater good.

And then the massacre.

"You see, that's why you don't isolate soulmates from each other"

11/14/2016 #2,584
There's also the posibility that the Uchiha will just go the other route-intead of protecting her, they'll shun her, forbi Itachi contact to her, and look down on her.

Awww, but then I'd have to say goodbye to the dork!Uchiha headcanon. But seriously, that's a valid interpretation - a symptom of the Uchiha pulling away from Konoha at large is ignoring out-of-clan soulmates.

Cue Smol!Shika putting his smol!Jounin Commander skills to a test, running a smol!Uchiha racketeer to secretly protect Shikako.

I am so behind this. 110% yes.

(In gaiden, he basically told his fiancée to give up on her dreams and just not be a shinobi to be safe/promote peace, and didn't get why she was upset with him for that. I could see him wanting to be controlling enough to step in on her decisions.)

You know, this reminded me of how Itachi is, in some ways, very different from Obito and Madara. We joked and talked seriously about Obito/Madara kidnapping Shikako if she was their soulmate, but Itachi is a much more distant but equally obsessive and controlling.

The precedent case is, of course, Sasuke - Itachi loves and is obsessed with his brother, but even before the Massacre, he made a point of maintaining both physical and emotional distance. And of course, post-Massacre that distance increases 100-fold through missing-nin-ness and Tsukuyomi. Part of Itachi's post-Massacre behavior is his effort to set up Sasuke as his eventual killer - dying to Sasuke is pretty central to his motivation and has a whole bunch of feelings tied up in it (eg Itachi needs to die and Sasuke killing him would be a form of redemption, Sasuke needs his eyes so Itachi can protect him even after death, Itachi is just generally not playing with a full deck anymore and just wants Sasuke's attention in any capacity he can have it, etc). But pre- and post-Massacre, Itachi is trying to protect Sasuke. From everything - the truth, the manipulations of others, actual legit danger, himself. Emphasis on the last: Itachi is trying to protect Sasuke from Itachi.

Obito and Madara? Wouldn't act to protect a loved one from themselves. That wouldn't really occur to them. They would instead act to protect them from everything else, which most readily translates to "keep them super close so I personally can cut down anything that would harm them". "Anything" includes things that their loved ones might willingly choose, which is why these relationships are seriously unbalanced and unhealthy. But then there's Itachi, who has the same definition of "anything" PLUS himself being a danger. So now you have someone strong and manipulative, who can self-justify removing your agency BUT ALSO isn't comfortable being in the same zip code as you.

Because bad things happen to people who associate with Itachi. I mean, just look at Shisui. So Itachi isn't a kidnapping kind of guy. I mean, he would kidnap you, but not to keep you. He'd find a nice, safe, isolated place to put you, lock you in, toss away the key, and avoid interacting with you ever again. (He'd probably stalk you without your knowledge though, just to be sure that you're still safe and provided for.)

So yeah, if the coup is being planned and everything, Itachi would avoid Shikako like the plague (and make sure everyone else vaguely threatening knew to avoid her like the plague as well).

Edit: In hindsight, this reminds me of a more-dysfunctional-and-unhealthy version of Kakashi. Because he's also the type to try to put some distance between himself and people he loves in a bid to keep them safe. Except Kakashi is still sound-of-mind enough to know that people need agency - to be in control of their own lives. Itachi shot past that benchmark a while ago.

11/14/2016 . Edited 11/14/2016 #2,585

Oh my gosh guys, I just had the best idea!

Pictures. Picture soulmarks.

Your life is painted out on your skin. Events that really impacted you, or are your dearest memories, are reflected on your skin like tattoos.

11/15/2016 #2,586

@ TwilightSymphonycat - Great idea so my thoughts:

-Maybe outline only before they happen, and clearest when most certain, (unlikely fades, on track solidifies, but never set in stone)

-Some are never fulfilled (knowing caused you to miss out),

-And some are a Self fulfilling prophecy,

-Danzo sees a Dark haired lad with Strange Sharingan blazing in his eyes over his defeated not-quite corpse, and so plans the Uchiha's Genocide. Sealing his fate.

- Another see's his future wife, and stalks her so creepily he never see's her again

- Hinata may see Naruto as her Husband, but is terrified of the above

- Without colour Ino may mistake Husband Sai for Sasuke

11/15/2016 #2,587


Not everyone has soulmarks.

Soulmarks are some sort of important, grand indication of your future, or some future event. Hashirama's said 'Peace'. Madara's said 'Dies Last'. The key is, Soulmarks never change, and they're always right.

The trick nobody knows is that the nature of soulmarks is to be self-fulfilling. Whatever creates soulmarks is something that takes the future into account. If the presence of a soulmark were to change the future the soulmark references, that soulmark would never have appeared in the first place.

It is precisely this reason that not everyone has one. If you are the sort of person who would agonize over the meaning of your soulmark, devote your life to making sure it wouldn't come true, and actually succeed? (or if such a person was poised to do so on your behalf) You wouldn't get one in the first place.

All soulmarks are all essentially stable time loops. They are more common among cultures that believe in Fate being inevitable, because those people tend not to purposely attempt to thwart them.

Neji has a soulmark.

Naruto does not.

11/15/2016 #2,588

I can't write actual ficlets for whatever reason, but I can still write nonsenical headcanons and I got bit by the ghost/soul guide bug. MathIsMagic, Real Chys Lattes, I'm going to be stepping on your toes for a while - heads up! Also, prepare for a huge word dump - I don't mean to ignore the self-fulfilling prophesy marks, but I can't think of intelligent additions right now. But they're cool too!


So, like I mentioned, ghosts/soul guides. Because who doesn't want our old friends from the Warring Clans back from the dead in some form? I'm imagining more limited interactions than Math's version of ghosts - no one can see them except for the person they're attached to, and ghosts can't see each other. (Shikako can't see other people's ghosts, either.) Socially, ghosts are viewed like soul guides as described by Real Chys Lattes back on page 32 (index has the link). As with Chys' version, soul guides can be sealed if absolutely necessary, but people try to avoid that - the process isn't perfect and has a risk of personality changes and more serious mental disorders.

The mechanics are actually chakra transmigration ala Asura and Indra rather than true reincarnation (like what happened in the pre-Shikako-to-Shikako transition). Memories aren't maintained, personalities aren't copy-pasted, and Edo Tensei is still a thing, but there's still a bit of those past people in you. Just a shadow, that elusive quirk of your chakra signature that distinguishes you from a sibling. If a sensor lived long and happened to come across a transmigration of someone they knew, they would recognize the connection.

Everyone (other than Hagoromo, Hamura, Kaguya and the assorted Zetsus) has their chakra transmigrate after death. Dead souls still go to the Pure Land, but when their transmigrant is born, they'll end up "haunting" that person for the rest of their lives. Take Hashirama as an example. He was haunted by the previous transmigrant of Asura, and Hashi in turn haunts Naruto. However, Naruto only ever interacts with Hashi - the guy before Hashi has earned his eternal rest in the Pure Land, and Naruto will never meet him. A person only sees their most recent past life, not the whole line of them.

So what are the ghosts good for? Advice, mostly. Techniques that might have been otherwise lost can be passed down. Emotional support and old-people wisdom. They can't actually possess their hauntees. (Unless Tobirama invented a jutsu to let ghosts do just that. I wouldn't put it past the guy.) And the ghosts can't see or talk to each other. Any security leak is one-way - from ghost to living person. On the flip side, unless you seal them away, you can't turn off ghosts from the living side of things. Ghosts have to choose to ignore you - otherwise, they have a live feed of your life and a straight line into your head. As I'm sure you can imagine, that might cause its own slew of problems.

Oh, and regarding babies and civilians. I like Chys' ceremony-at-age-five idea rather than from-birth for this. Before five, kids just don't have the chakra to make the connection. Families will have a ceremony at five to finalize the connection in a controlled environment, but even without the ceremony, the haunting happens spontaneously before age 10. Civilians haunting ninja and ninja haunting civilians happens pretty often, though less often than random chance would predict. And you can totally be haunted by people who died young. Again, not baby young (...that would be pretty horrifying, actually), but if they were old enough to be haunted, they're old enough to haunt. (Kids who die younger than that don't "count" in transmigration - the chakra finds a new soul and the last old-enough person becomes the ghost. The too-young kid stays in the Pure World with no haunts.)


Not going to lie, I don't particularly want to innovate on the who-got-stuck-with-who list. Hashirama-Naruto and Madara-Sasuke are basically assumed. And I'm completely in love with Tobirama-Kakashi and Minato-Shikako. But to expand on my thoughts a bit:

Naruto - Hashirama and Naruto are not on the same page surprisingly often. Sure, they seem pretty similar on the surface, and they understand each other when it comes to important things like family and optimism and Therapy-no-jutsu. But Naruto has always been and will always be baffled by Hashirama's weird-ass mood swings. Especially when Hashirama takes something personally and wallows in depression. Hashirama, in turn, doesn't really get the pranking or the sexy jutsu or why ramen is so great. He's also notably less chill with how the village treats Naruto. But Hashirama is nothing if not supportive of his favorite nephew. (Yes, they're not related, but he's kind of Mito's nephew, which means Hashirama gets to be the Cool Uncle for the first time ever.)

Sasuke - Madara and Sasuke start out at Dysfunction Junction and get worse before they get better. Pre-Massacre, there was serious discussion about just sealing Sasuke to protect him from the crazy. The only reason it didn't happen was because Madara was kept very hush-hush in the Uchiha (ie the Hokage [or Danzo] weren't in the decision making process) and Madara ignored Sasuke pretty consistently. Madara never planned on transmigrating before the IT was in place, so Sasuke is an unpleasant surprise that he doesn't have the emotional investment for. Sasuke, in turn, feels pretty neglected and out of place between being ignored and being told to ignore his ghost. Of course, Sasuke is adorable, looks like smol Izuna, keeps bothering Madara to spend at least some time with him, and is adorable. Even Madara is not immune to Sasuke's adorableness. Post-Massacre, Madara doesn't know more than Sasuke (he has suspicions, though, that something blew up behind the scenes), but there's an orphaned traumatized eight year old with his little brother's face that he is physically incapable of leaving behind. So Madara ends up somewhat invested in Sasuke with what remains of his pitch black heart. This is not always a good thing (but I'm a sucker for redemption plots, so it's probably a net good if Team 7 can navigate that emotional mindfield.)

Kakashi - Tobirama and young Kakashi are pretty in sync with each other. They are both badasses who hold themselves to high standards and become emotionally invested in only a handfull of people. Tobirama has a bit more of a temper, and young Kakashi is a bit more arrogant and less generous with praise, but they get each other. That said, when Kakashi's world falls apart, Tobirama is not the best choice for piecing him back together. And boy, does Tobirama know it. ANBU years are hard for everyone since Tobirama and Kakashi's standby coping mechanism is "go out and do shit, the pain has to fade eventually". Which doesn't work, shockingly enough. Sarutobi eventually suggests students, which Tobirama thinks is a great idea (his experience as a sensei is very dear to his heart and kept him together when Hashirama died) and Kakashi thinks is a terrible idea (he does not want to be responsible for delicate baby genin). Cue failing a bunch of teams (which Tobirama has only a few problems with because he's also a perfectionist and wants a team on the level of Sarutobi/Koharu/Homura). But eventually Team 7 happens and Kakashi is happy and Tobirama is smug because he called it. (Also, Tobirama cannot stand the way that Kakashi is late for everything. Even when there's no one else to troll, Kakashi will be late just to get a rise out of Tobirama.)

Shikako - Because I haven't written anything with it yet, yes, Shikako ends up as Minato's transmigration. Just imagine Shiki Fujin as causing a randomly generated effect on the soul of the caster. Sometimes the soul is lost (no haunting and no stay in the Pure World). Sometimes only the chakra is lost (no haunting, but soul is still in the Pure World). Sometimes the transmigration is happens much later or earlier than expected. Sometimes an actual reincarnation, complete with memories, is thrown in the mix. I mentioned this earlier, Minato ends up on our Earth before ending up as Shikako. It's confusing, Minato and Shikako both remember Earth, Minato has learned his lesson about using weird-ass seals and is fully committed to helping this small mostly-a-child deal with Naruto-verse bullshit. Most important thing to note is that from 5-years old on, Shikako has an adult confidant who knows her past in full. Even if that adult is dead and invisible to everyone else. But she has someone she can talk to and bounce ideas off of who is not herself. That has the potential to be huge, and I don't know what direction I would take it in, to be honest.

Sakura - believe it or not, I have plans for Sakura, of all the main cast. I would match her up with Mito, who I've always headcanoned as being "style and grace that can punch you in the face". Since I think Sakura is civilian-raised in DOS, this would be one of few ninja-civilian transmigrations in the main cast. Mito is a fair but strict mentor-figure for little Sakura, and even if most people don't know about Mito (ghosts' identities are not broadcast out of the family), they can tell Sakura is going places. I imagine one could diverge from DOS with Sakura either being on a graduating team or being passed as an apprentice instead of going straight into Medic Corps.

Obito - I really, really want him to be Izuna. I mean, Itachi-Izuna wouldn't be amiss, but Obito-Izuna who was rivals/friends with Kakashi-Tobirama and is carrying out Madara's IT plan. The potential cries out for attention.

Shikamaru - Chys had him paired with Dan, but I'm actually leaning towards Itama for Shikamaru. Itama lost his little brother very young before dying himself. He would be 120% behind Shikamaru, who has shy little Shikako to look after. (And if my other Kawarama-Minato headcanon comes into play, that only makes for more feels.) And like Shikamaru, I imagine Itama would have initial trouble dealing with Shikako's post-genin changes. I don't know, Itama's personality is not very set in stone (palace of toothpicks eyy), but I feel like there's something there. But Dan would be a more stable mentor than Itama who died at...what 9, 10 years old? So maybe Dan instead, for a more calm-under-pressure type.

Obviously there are more modern named characters than Warring Clans (or early Konoha) named characters, so some people would have to be made up or glossed over. But that's a problem for another time.

11/16/2016 #2,589
Laural Rose

@Moonlit: Remember; Dan and Tsunade bonded over lost siblings. Dan had a younger sister, and her death spurred him to tackle complete reform of the training programs and team assignments, championing a new arrangement where every field team had a medic. So, you've still got the "grieving big brother" who would be especially effected that Shika was trying to protect his sister. We could even throw in that Kako looks like Dan's dead sister, except for the hair color—much like Naruto looks like Nawaki with a peroxide dye job, blue contacts and whiskers—since I don't remember that we ever see a flashback of his sister.

I'm not arguing against Itama; I'm just pointing out that Dan is an equally strong option for emotional investment. But; having a child-soldier instead of an adult genius riding him would explain Shikamaru's less-than-stellar handling of the Kako situation a little [read: a lot] better.

Izuna haunting Obito would make a lot of sense, if Obito still follows the canon path in this world; Izuna, trying to give his brother one last gift, trying to surpass his brother through Obito taking Madara's name, but also trying to honor Madara's wishes—yeah, there's a lot of potentional for a lot of feels there, no matter where you take Izuna's character. No way would Obito get away with claiming Madara stole Izuna's eyes, like he did in canon, though; Izuna would rend his mind for that vicious, hateful lie. They were a gift!

But, if there's a divergence because of these ghosts, Kagami haunting Obito would be interesting, too. Tobirama sensing the chakra of one of the students he died trying to protect and kicking Kakashi for not being nicer to Obito has potential for bitter-sweet lols, especially since he'd never tell Kakashi why he should be nicer.

I'm not at all sure Kagami would be sanguine about Madara's plans, though (I haven't seen anything of him beyond the flashback to Tobirama's death, so I have even fewer toothpicks than usual with that one. Actually; I have one toothpick. You can't build anything with one toothpick), so Obito might end up walking a very different path.

If Tobirama haunting Kakashi didn't already change how Kanabi bridge went down, since Kakashi's whole "rules before people" hangup probably wouldn't have flown quite as far with Tobirama chiding him about the Will of Fire 24-7. I get the feeling Tobirama could out-stubborn Kakashi, even pre-pubescent Kakashi (Kakashi has nothing on Hashirama in a snit, or any Elders Council ever), if he really put his mind to it, and he would be Displeased with Kakashi's new world-view, post-Sakumo.

Kawarama-Minato is actually really sweet; according to one of the fanbooks, Kawarama died at 7, so we have the genius who's being socialized by the child-soldier—basically, both a morality tale about there's more to life than combat, but also an important chance to be a child for a boy who's unusual intelligence might have made socializing awkward. Also, a chance for the child in his head to be a child with him, like Kawarama never really got to be in his life, and a chance for Kawarama to grow up with Minato and have, by proxy, the life he never was able to lead. That's a really interesting, heart-tugging choice.

(FYI: Itama likely died the same year as his brother, so he was either likely somewhere between 6 and 8, depending both on if he was older or younger than Kawarama and how much later in the year he died copared to his brother. Tobirama has to be at least 2 years younger than Hashirama for the birthdays to work, and Kawarama has to be four years younger than Hashirama for his death to match up with the first meeting of Madara and Hashirama according to that same fanbook [80 yrs before the 4th war; Hashirama was 11]. So; I'm figuring there was a year gap between Tobirama and Itama, a year gap between Itama and Kawarama, and Itama died around 8. I was working out a timeline for this today for Matching Scars, actually. [I know, I should have done that earlier, but whatever, it's done now.])

Shikako having someone she could confide in, where there was zero risk of a security leak, would be HUGE for her. Seriously; that would change so, so much. I see that going all to the good, personally, especially since Minato's whole thing was being the cheerful, humanizing force—he was given Kakashi to try to pull the kid back from working himself to death / breaking himself. So, I think Minato would be a very strong moderating presence on Shikako—"it won't matter what preparations you've made to fight the Akatsuki if you've killed yourself from overwork before you ever fight them! You'll never protect your friends that way!" (Says the guy who sacrificed himself against the Kyuubi.)Although, I also think they'd both recognize she'll likely be pulling a similarly self-sacrificing move—and Shikako would be forced to engage with that likelihood a lot sooner—come time for the final throwdown. For Shikako, she's used to thinking "everyone who isn't me is more important". So, she pretends it doesn't scare her that she's probably careening towards certain death and keeps moving forward. For Minato, it twinges a bit, knowing this new leaf he's supposed to guide and protect will probably also die young in defense of her prescious people. Maybe even some introspection on his part about why chakra gets paired the way it does; if there's a component of fate. His guide died waaay too young, if we're going with Kawarama, he died pretty young, she'll probably die too young by his standards—likely younger than him, though thankfully older than Kawarama—he's sensing a pattern he wishes he could break, and wondering if it's chance or design. And wondering which one causes which—does a soul that's likely to burn itself out prematurely attract the chakra of someone who already did the same because of shared qualities, or does the knowledge that your guide died young / the advice of that too-young guide influence your own behavoir to be more reckless / more likely to die young, because its the only path they know how to lead you down? Hopefully most of that was coherent. I'm feeling rather scatter-brained today (okay, more than usual, today, whatever), but I saw your post and it made my mind buzz.

11/16/2016 #2,590

@Laural: Not going to lie, I forgot about Dan's sister almost entirely, which is especially terrible considering I reread that chapter last month. There wasn't a flashback of the sister (in the manga, at least), so nothing's stopping the dye job angle. Huh, I'm torn now.

But; having a child-soldier instead of an adult genius riding him would explain Shikamaru's less-than-stellar handling of the Kako situation a little [read: a lot] better.

Yeah, full agreement on that one. But hey, if we go with Dan, we can wrap that angst up a little faster. Maybe - now that you've pointed out Dan's dead sister, he might not be the most rational actor either, especially with how often Shikako dies/almost dies. He'd probably need a bit of a reality check too, though he'd get with the program faster than Shikamaru.

Kagami-Obito? Ooooh, a challenge. Kagami would definitely not be okay with Madara's plans, from what little is told about him. He's Shisui's direct ancestor (manga scanlation used "father" to describe him, but I don't think the timelines are aligned for that) and Tobirama only had good things to say about him. And Tobirama is a pretty strong anti-crazy-Madara character reference.

(Tobirama having a soft spot for Obito that Kakashi is just completely missing sounds pretty cute. Obito clearly isn't Kagami - he's a little more all over the place than his predecessor, but he's equally earnest and probably will grow up to surprise everyone by being a late-blooming badass. Tobirama kind of echoes Minato's fond exasperation of Obito. Kakashi just thinks his teammate is insufferable and wonders why they were teamed up together.)

The thing with IT is that at first glance, it doesn't seem that bad - no one's fighting, no one's dying, everyone can be happy. Then you look closer and realize any plan that can "bring the dead back to life" (coughRincough) is built on delusion and denial of the real world. Obito post chest-stab is playing with half a deck and totally doesn't mind the delusion caveat. Kagami is a grown-ass man who trained with the Second Hokage and was friends with the Third. That's a man that breathes Will of Fire - he would kick peace based on mass delusion to the curb.

Honestly, if Obito ended up watching the chest-stab (assuming Kannabi Bridge didn't get hijacked by Tobirama for the better), I would put my money on Kagami doing his damnedest to pull Obito back from the brink...the question would be whether or not he succeeds. I can only imagine the mental imbalance that would accrue from a ghost and a person being so at odds with each other for the decade and a half that passes before the Fourth Shinobi War. Or you can toss out Obito following canon rails - he's so central, I personally tend not to push him off-rail too much, but some of the best fanfics have been the ones that looked at canon and said "fuck that!" For example: DOS Shikamaru losing his arm. Ballsy move, I loved it.

Back on topic: Izuna would not take any defamation of his brother. And Izuna-Obito makes my heart hurt, because mentioning the eye stealing reminded me that their reunion with Tobirama-Kakashi and Madara-Sasuke is going to be soul crushingly tragic. It's one thing to have hate/like/love/loathe feelings towards Tobirama-Kakashi; it's another to see your brother (or your brother's shadow, because Sasuke is not Madara) reject all the work you've done to make his dream and dying wish come true. Ugh, I'm torn with Obito too. (I don't know if my heart could stand that level of despair.)

I agree that Tobirama would be stubbornly and consistently chiseling at Kakashi's post-Sakumo rules hangup, but I tend to think of Tobirama as another rules-oriented person. So Tobirama's flavor of the Will of Fire is a little more nuanced and less touchy-feely-screw-the-rules than his brother's. Young Kakashi...doesn't really get subtle arguments about rules-vs-people. It would be like arguing down a brick wall. Tobirama is stubborn enough to do it, though - it's only a matter of time (...until Kakashi comes into his troll-tastic sense of humor as an adult and drives Tobirama up a wall instead).

Oh, but Kannabi Bridge might go differently if you have the Second Hokage riding shotgun in your head....we could hand wave that - the cave-in is set up well enough in canon as a nasty surprise that couldn't be prevented without unrealistic foresight. Kakashi and Obito going after Rin faster (instead of arguing about rules vs people) might not be enough time to change events much. Easiest divergence would be preventing Rin's kidnapping or having Kakashi use Minato's Hiraishin much earlier in that fight (caveat: Minato was busy on the front lines against Iwa, reinforcements might not be possible). Decisions, decisions...I just realized Tobirama would be crushed if Kagami-Obito "died" on his watch. ("Crushed" pun not intended)

(Your Senju ages are very much appreciated and excellent detective work. I would make Kawarama the youngest in this, so Itama would be 8 to Kawarama's 7. They're so young, wow.)

Also, a chance for the child in his head to be a child with him, like Kawarama never really got to be in his life, and a chance for Kawarama to grow up with Minato and have, by proxy, the life he never was able to lead.

Despite me suggesting Kawarama-Minato, I don't think I ever consciously acknowledged just what a child guide would do to a child who grew into a man, was going to be a father and then died for his village and his son. Or what seeing all of that would do to the guide that would never have the chance to grow up themselves. Being a guide who died so young would be sad as hell, but it'd also be super uncomfortable. Everyone Kawarama knew has already died, but more than that, they grew up without him. Not Itama - he was snuffed out too early as well - but Hashirama and Tobirama became adults. They became leaders, great men that people talk about with reverence. But Kawarama never got to see that - Hashirama will always be his brother with the stupid haircut who would gets worked up about the smallest things and Tobirama is the brother who can't see in bright daylight and gleefully forgets to eat to spend another hour in the library. The men with their faces carved into a mountain don't feel real, more like caricatures based on other people that vaguely resemble his brothers. This happens to some extent with all guides, but that disconnect that comes with being a fish-out-of-water would hit a younger kid especially hard.

It makes the guide-person relationship even more important, since that's the guide's only real outlet for their social needs. And Minato is such a nice person...it's sad, but also sweet. I think those two would be good for each other.

"it won't matter what preparations you've made to fight the Akatsuki if you've killed yourself from overwork before you ever fight them! You'll never protect your friends that way!" (Says the guy who sacrificed himself against the Kyuubi.)

First thought: On the one hand, pot-kettle-black; on the other, that pot knows what it's talking about, the kettle should listen.

But oh jeez, Minato's navel gazing on him and Kawarama dying young, with Shikako maybe next in line. Throws a grenade of existential pain into the Kawarama-Minato feels right above this, if nothing else. It's my belief, though, that Minato will come down on the optimistic side of things. For all that there seems to be a trend in this chakra lineage, there's already been changes for the better. Minato vastly outlived Kawarama, and more generally ninja living in Minato's time enjoyed longer childhoods, greater security and generally better lives on average than ninja in Kawarama's time. Shikako and her generation are still coming into their own, and the Akatsuki are one hell of an out-of-context problem, but not all hope is lost. Screw fate's design - I mean, we already have solid evidence from Minato and Shikako's weird canon knowledge that things have been off the rails for a while and have veered farther away because of Shikako and co. So what if Shikako is destined to die young? No one said they had to follow destiny's instructions. This is a watershed moment in history - now's not the time for fatalism! It's time for action! And seals! Lots of seals!

It's a bit selfish too - Minato's helped raise Shikako, she's his daughter in spirit, he knows her in a way maybe no one else does. He just doesn't want her to die in the same way he doesn't want Naruto to die. They're his kids, damnit, he's not going to encourage the kind of self-sacrifice that he pulled as a brand-new Hokage. Shikako still has such a bright future ahead of her, and she is definitely NOT less important than everyone else. (One could argue that she is MORE important than the average joe - look at what she's changed in a decade-plus of living. Imagine what she'll change with another decade under her belt.)

TL;DR: Dan cares too, Kagami will not go quietly into that dark night, Izuna is never happy, Tobirama never stops trying (but might not succeed), Kawarama breathes perspective, and Minato will protect these small children from the world and from their own pessimism no matter what fate has in mind.

PS: Your post was perfectly coherent from where I'm standing. Glad I piqued your interest - as you can see, you piqued mine as well.

11/16/2016 #2,591
I am now wondering what will happen if someone has a guide that is malicious either towards them directly or towards someone close to them or something.
11/16/2016 #2,592
The Real Chys Lattes

I like where that all went. :D

11/17/2016 #2,593
The Real Chys Lattes

New idea:

Divided Worlds: You are on one side and your soulmate is on the other. So it's a Divided Soul Bond World.

Soulmates will be from different generations. Not everyone has a soulmate, yet. Not everyone is guaranteed of getting a soulmate.

IF you have a soulmate they will be over ten years older or younger than you on the average. You will get your soulmate by age 10, or else you most likely aren't getting one until age 20 or so. (There are exceptions, like the examples below.)

Soul bonds in this world are considered to be mentors, spiritually. For example, Sakura is a soulmate to Tsunade (said example). That's part of the reason they became student and teacher in this verse. (if anyone read this before I corrected it it's because I NEED TO GO TO SLEEP YAH. *fixes it* lol)

Naruto and Jiraya are not soulmates, however. Naruto's soulmate would have been Hashirama. (Yet another example of a ridiculous age gap. The soul that's closest to this person isn't always in the same generation, thus sometimes people don't have soulmates alive when they are. Sometimes, they barely miss meeting each other.)

The soulmates can be ninja or civilian. They can be anywhere in the world. They know they have met their soulmate when their chakra knocks them both unconscious simultaneously, momentarily, and then they can't get their chakra to work for a week or so afterwards as they are adjusting to having merged chakras by being near each other. They have to relearn chakra control to an extent. Sometimes they gain a new chakra element on top of that. (That can be awkward in battle.... or quite fortuitous.) Haku and Zabuza passed out at the same time, woke, and seriously wondered what happened because they had NO Idea, the day they met.

When the Vanishing occurs the young ones stay on one side the older ones go to the other side. People without soulmates go where the adults are, since they would have been waiting for their soulmate to be born thus belong in the adult category. This happens regardless of whether they've met their soulmate and merged chakra or not.

If, however, they had a soulmate that died, they stayed on the adult side as well, even if they themselves are younger. So you get a world where most of the adults vanish and some of the kids disappear with them, but the other world left behind is populated mostly by children and young adults. They each feel like they're in their own world and nothing has changed, except the other group has vanished on them (into another identical dimension or something.)

11/17/2016 . Edited 11/17/2016 #2,594
@chys: that would not work. You would first have to establish what is "normal", before you can do this. Also, you would possibly have very old people , providet their soulmate is both older and still alive, while others, like Naruto would be "vanished".
11/17/2016 #2,595

@zeich: That's what the hackjob seals are for! Granted, they have maybe 20% chance of complications (maybe 5% for particularly bad complications), but you can seal a bad guide. It's just not done lightly.

@Chys: Kind of like the heartbeat variant in Recursive, Divided Worlds without clear cutoff gets rather messy. I think some of the idea's appeal is that because it was by something concrete like age, there's no wiggle room, no buffer for the worst case scenarios. The kids were very much put in an otherwise-impossible sink-or-swim situation, which made for a very compelling conflict. If you split along soulmate lines and age as proposed, you kind of lose the direness that makes Divided Worlds so compelling.

My two cents - I would make a soulmate-driven Divided Worlds randomly split up pairs between the two dimensions. Rather than have a fluctuating criterion like bond-plus-age, just split by bond and nothing else. So Haku and Zabuza would be split up, as would Sakura and Tsunade (going with your examples). But there's equal chance of Haku winding up sharing dimension space with Sakura or Tsunade, same for Zabuza. The problems that arise become less logistics based and more emotionally driven, but it's a little more in keeping with the age-cutoff's lack of mercy. (I would randomly sort the people lacking soulmates as well to keep everyone off-balance.)

11/17/2016 #2,596
The Real Chys Lattes

The last idea I came up with for the soul mates divided was NOT about age, just to clarify. I only added the 10 years thing either way because that was a specific idea I had in that particular moment along the lines of the qualifications for soul mates with the original theme of divided world being age restricted, but it doesn't have to be in the other concept. It could be anything, like Obito and Kakashi are soulmates, thus end up in different worlds. Divided worlds idea for soumates wasn't supposed to be age limited in and of itself, which was why it was intermixed in the explanation. I personally see how it could work as a concept on it's own, but it would NOT work for the original spirit of the Divided Words being intended to remove the children from the adult population- that part I do agree with since it was not the intent anyways, it's a moot point. Since I haven't seen the source material that started the entire divided worlds idea I don't think along its particular requirements, though I know people are basing their concept of it off of that.

11/17/2016 #2,597

Sorry, by "age" I meant the 10 years difference thing, which is functionally an age division - just a relative one rather than an absolute "kids only" one. And the "direness" thing was just me novice-psychoanalyzing - no one in the Divided Worlds thread brought that up as a motivation. So yeah, I think we're on the same page, splitting the world along soulmate lines instead of Recursive's by age.

Who would go where? What's the best case/worst case scenarios for these splits? What kind of conflicts can this create? Off the top of my head, one version of every village "loses" their kage, and not all the kages are in one single dimension. That's already internationally destabilizing. Akatsuki and jinchuuriki get randomly sorted into a dimension - I'm sure Pein is happy about that [/sarcasm]. Even if they're not soulmates, splitting up Naruto and Jiraiya would be pretty dangerous in the short-term. I'm blanking on what would make a good focus for a story, but there's potential here.

11/17/2016 #2,598

So, I was thinking about Zeich's proposal for Malicious ghosts, and I was like, "Hm. That must be what happened with Itachi." (Assuming he still does the massacre.) But, then I didn't really know who would be Itachi's guide, and my thoughts kidna segued over to Danzou. And I was like, well, pretty much everyone we know of from the Clan eras was still alive when Danzou was born (or, had been 'claimed' already). Except for two people... And he does have a weird hang up about possessign the power of the Sharingan. And wanting to fuck with/destroy the village Hashirama 'betrayed the Senju' to build with the Uchiha... He like screwing over Kakashi (Tobirama) and Naruto (Hashirama) and especially Sasuke (Madara)...

Guys, Danzou's soul guide is totally Butsuma Senju.

11/17/2016 #2,599
Opener Ace
Oh my god, that would explain a lot about Danzo. One question though. Are soul guides widely known? I mean I can totally see some people bragging to others that their kid has this dead S-rank ninja as their soul guide while those who got madmen or missing-nin would not tell anyone at all. Butsuma Senju would be cause for alarm. Or would he just be silent, slightly awed by what his sons managed to create (unlikely)and supporting(even more unlikely)?
11/17/2016 #2,600

I was operating under the premise that soul guides are kept very hush hush. Your parents know (because you get them at 5 as a tiny child), but other than that? I'm torn between having to report it for the Hokage's records or not (lying would be very bad). Bragging is almost universally considered bad sense unless you as a living person are already an S-class badass who can do whatever the he'll you want.

Butsuma-Danzo is a match made in hell, I love it. I bet they both think they're honestly helping. *shudders*

Itachi probably has a Warring Clans kid who died young and just couldn't dig Itachi out of the situation (not for lack of trying). Though a properly malicious or atrociously misguided guide would be an interesting take on it. Don't know who specifically I would give him though. An Uchiha guide would balk at the Massacre, even if they subscribe to Will of Fire.

Edit: I was on mobile, formatting really does go to helll on mobile.

11/18/2016 . Edited 11/18/2016 #2,601
Now I'm wondering about how a 'soul guide' DOS would interact with a 'soul guide' universe that's closer to Canon. (Okay, I confess, I really want OnlyChildShikamaru's Soul Guide to be Shikako's previous incarnation. Like, imagine her slowly learning Japanese throughout his toddlerhood. Imagine Shikamaru growing up bilingual, with the pretty ghost lady who sings him to sleep. Imagine Shikamaru hearing others talk about how relatively less useful a civilian soul guide is. Imagine Shikamaru knowing that his soul guide... knows things. The future, sometimes. (She won't admit it- but she's a very bad liar. And the only way she HAS of helping him is to give him advice and encourage him to prepare for 'nothing in particular' (which then happens). So Shikamaru probably cottons on... oh, around the Sasuke retrieval mission, if not the chunnin exams.)
11/18/2016 #2,602

@Dona - very cute.

@Moonlit - Well, I almost said this before, but it seemed to contrived, but now that I've thought on it more, I'm kinda seeing the appeal of the angst.

So, consider the tragedy of a little boy killed to young, before he gets a chance to learn more than "love your brothers" and "the Uchiha need to die," before he gets to learn more than the black-and-white, vengeance-filled morality of a child in the warring clans era. And he has to be soul guide to the socially-stunted Uchiha clan heir. That's... not great, already.

Then, imagine this little boy sensing his father, whom he was taught he must be obedient to, still fighting the good Senju fight, trying to get the Uchiha ousted from Konoha, if not destroyed all together. He grew up learning how to obey his father to protect his brothers, so when Danzou says, "Kill the Uchiha to save your little brother," the boy tells Itachi to say yes.

Itama does learn that vengeance doesn't pay, eventually, though. But not until Itachi is so broken that he joins the group trying to kill Hashirama, and tortures Kawarama and Tobirama into comas.

11/18/2016 #2,603

@Dona Oh man, Shikamaru dealing with pseudo-prophet guide Shikako. That's adorable. Showing the ninja world that civilian guides kick ass (and low-key know the future).

@Math Not going to lie, when I wrote kid guide for Itachi, I was thinking of Itama "I done fucked up" Senju as well. Oh maaaaan.

I just imagined Danzo taking advantage of filial piety from Itama-Itachi. I feel like I need a bath now, that's messed up.

Post Tsukuyomi, I can see Itachi taking a more "fuck the plan" stance than his fatalistic outlook in Canon. Don't know what exactly he would do differently, but I've always wanted to see a more aggressively-subversive Itachi.

11/18/2016 #2,604
Laural Rose

Alternate character interpretation: Danzo became increasingly less subtle after the massacre, ultimately screwing up and self-destructing right when he was on the cusp of getting what he always wanted because he reached too far too fast. Danzo has a superiority / inferiority complex, where he's the only one who can lead the village, but he also hates himself for being a coward, and sees everything that's powerful as "threat"—because on some level he knows it's more powerful than him, personally—even when said power is on his side, and therefore should be appreciated. He can't stand anything being more powerful than him, even though he's aware, on some level he never consciously engages with, that he's relatively weak on his own, and certainly weaker than he'd like to be, hence how pretty much the entire world becomes threatening to him, hence his general scorched earth philosophy when dealing with—well, everything ever.

What if his soulguide is Tajima? Tajima Uchiha, who told him his whole life how hax the Sharingan were, and how amaze-balls the Uchiha were. Danzo looks up to Tobirama, who his soulguide despises. He befriends Kagami, which at first Tajima's like "finally you're doing something right, kid", but Kagami is will-of-fire over Clan so Tajima's opinion of Kagami shifts to "blood traitor", and there's this growing strain of Danzo warring with his soul-guide, plus the strain of Danzo facing his own inadequacies—Hiruzen being willing to self-sacrifice, Tobirama doing it instead ("You call yourself Shinobi? A Senju just proved he was a better Shinobi than you, how shameful! How did I get stuck guiding so worthless a coward as this!").

So, Danzo becomes obsessed, after Kagami dies—but especially after Kakashi is gifted with Obito's eye, because why didn't he get Kagami's, then?—with obtaining a Sharingan. Or twelve. It is both directly because of Tajima talking them up his entire life, and to spite Tajima's constant belittling of him—"see, I can do more with the Sharingan than you ever did, who's the true master of it now?"

As for the Massacre; Danzo targets the Uchiha because Tajima keeps telling him ad nauseam how powerful the Uchiha are, and how they're more powerful than Danzo. And Danzo knows they'll never be under Danzo's direct control (another taunt from Tajima the man can't help but to rub in). See above for Danzo's relationship with things more powerful than him, so Danzo takes this to mean "the Uchiha are dangerous to (Danzo) KONOHA"—because anything dangerous to Danzo is dangerous to Konoha, because ONLY Danzo can lead Konoha as it should be lead (seeing the Uchiha influence there yet? Because Danzo and Madara have very similar world-views when it comes to power and control; it's possible Danzo and Madara both got that from the same place—Tajima Uchiha).

But, Danzo also engineers the massacre, again, specifically to spite / show-up Tajima, who he has this distinctly fractious relationship with; "see, I'M more powerful than you're precious Uchiha, I defeated them all!" ("except you used one of our warriors do to it!")—"Yes, I was able to control him, and I didn't even need your precious Sharingan to do it! This is MY victory! Konoha's victory!". So the increasing lack of subtle and general stability is actually the death spiral of these two psychologically grappling after Danzo crossed a line Tajima could no longer endure and Tajima went from dismissive and contemptuous to actively malicious toward the man-child he's supposed to be guiding.

And, with Kakashi being guided by Tobirama, this could explain Danzo's mood-swing from "join my organization, we have righteous-vengeance shaped cookies" to "Kinoe, murder your friend and bring me his eye"—Tajima recognizes, on some level, there's a Senju guide with a "stolen" Sharingan eye and is prodding Danzo to not allow this until he hits on a way to convince Danzo that Kakashi is too much a wild-card ("too easily turned; look how quickly he betrayed the Third, you think such a one can be trusted?"), so controling Kakashi would be like holding an asp—sure, you can throw it at your enemies, but if you hold it wrong or too close, it will turn and bite you first.

Minato being guided by a Senju would be extra reason for Danzo to be salty about Minato being named Hokage, because as much as he hates Tajima, he's still been shaped by the man, and Tajima is not letting it go that a Senju—albeit indirectly—won power Danzo was denied.

Hating Naruto still fits this narrative, too; Tajima's has an instant "threat" response to the kid—because Hashirama, who was stronger than his son, greatest Uchiha ever—so even if Danzo isn't aware why, he knows from Tajima—who hates the kid, and Tajima only bothers to hate people he sees as worth the effort; he ignores most everyone else—that Naruto is powerful, and all things powerful are inherently dangerous to Danzo's world-view; therefore Naruto needs to be contained and / or destroyed post-haste.

If Itachi is being guided by a Senju, all the more reason for Danzo to crow / Tajima to hate everything; Danzo is manipulating scions of BOTH of the strongest clans, and using a Senju to wipe out the Uchiha. Also, that means Itachi was his plan-A; hence why Shisui needed to go, above and beyond his nifty Sharingan that Danzo wanted so badly. (Maybe Shisui's soulguide was a civilian; hence his compassion for the village as a whole? He's been shown the non-ninja side of life?)

I mean, I love the idea of Itama being like "dad, of course I'll destroy the Uchiha—Itachi we've got to destroy the Uchiha", because I'm a sadistic monster. I'm just saying this can be played other ways, with Itama just taking malicious joy out of being able to use an Uchiha against the Uchiha, since he's stuck with an Uchiha, at least he can make the bastard useful—because Itama really hates those bastards for what they did to him (until he realizes—waaay too late—that was a horrible idea).

As for Sasuke-Madara thing; maybe Sasuke would have been safe regardless, because even Danzo knows not to push Tajima that far, so he gets that extra satisfaction with Itachi of knowing the kid is bargaining for something that was never in danger in the first place. (Though he would like Sasuke under his control, both because he wants to rub that in Tajima's face, and because Tajima wants to 're-educate' his wayward son and so is pushing for Danzo to nab Sasuke.)

Alternately; Danzo really, really wants to mess up / destroy Sasuke because it would be like beating Madara, and even Tajima admits Madara was the strongest Uchiha ever. That would be the ultimate coup against his soulguide, if Danzo could kill / control / somehow best the greatest Uchiha EVAR, even indirectly—who's the best then? Huh, Tajima "You're-insignificant-compared-to-even-the-least-member-of-my-unbeatable-Clan" Uchiha? Who's the greatest now? That's right; Danzo "not-insignificant-at-all" Shimura's the greatest!

That it would be personally painful to Tajima to see harm befall the kid his son is guiding, who is also the last healthy living (that he knows about / that is uncorrupted with Senju DNA if he does know about Obito) member of his precious clan—bonus points.

11/18/2016 #2,605

Oh Laural. You have such a dirty, devious, beautiful mind. So, so much yes.

(Also, this direction is interesting, because my first kick for Danzou's soul guide was Tajima, but then I could figure out how the masacre would happen, but damn if that characterization and those motivations don't make so. much. sense.)

Looove Shisui's guide being a civilian. Definitely yes.

If we keep it Tajima and Itama for Danzou and Itachi, do you think theres any sort of way for a fake!Filial piety thing to still work? Like, Tajima recognizes Itama - or at least Senju - chakra in Itachi and figures out who it is and compresses himself well enough that Itama can't tell who it is back, and Tajima knows just enough to convince/hint at Itama through Danzou that he's Butsuma? Eh. That's probably too convoluted. I just need the manipulations and betrayal and extra layer of angst.

Oh. Wait. Tajima doesn't want the massacre at all. Ignore all of that. But, maybe there is something there with malicious guides recognizing others or falsifying themselves to wreak havoc on their old enemies? This seems like a thing that would happen, unless their sensativity to each other is lmited. Perhaps a reason why the warring clan era lasted so long, and took so long to get stopped? Because people actually remembered why these grudges were being held?

11/18/2016 #2,606

...Laural, I want your brain. That was terrifying brilliant, I'm kind of still in shock. Also:

"join my organization, we have righteous-vengeance shaped cookies"

You're lucky I had finished my tea by the time I got to that sentence. Good lord.

Bringing up Tajima and civilian-Shisui is making me think about other, even more minor characters. Like Madara's mysterious brothers that died before he met Hashirama. (We have too many present-day characters, so I'm making up toothpicks to build a palace with. Humor me for a moment.)

I've always headcanoned that those unnamed brothers were older than Madara, so imagine this: One of the brothers (let's call him...Koji for now) wakes up and is clearly not the guide to an Uchiha. He is, in fact, pretty much the opposite - the kid he's guiding is the child of some random civilian farmers all the way out in the Land of Water. There's no ninja around, not a lot of neighbors either, and it's cold. It snows every winter. Disconcerting, to be sure, but Koji is the more level-headed of Tajima's sons, he's not going to flip out. The kid he's with didn't do anything to wrong him and his clan, and he's pretty adorable, so Koji says he was a merchant from the Land of Fire (no need to flip out the civilians with a ninja guide) and promises to help tiny Haku live a healthy, happy life.

Then Haku finds out he has a kekkei genkai, watches his mom's murder and stabs his dad through with very pointy icicles.

Oops. In Koji's defense, he never came across a person from the Yuki clan when he was alive. He just thought Haku's chakra was weird because he was a Water native. In fact, the Land of Water might as well be another world for all the contact he and Haku have with the Land of Fire. So he just rolls with the punches and focuses on keeping Haku alive in this alien land. Cue run in with Zabuza, who Koji is not particularly thrilled with, but Haku is surprisingly stubborn. Years pass, and Haku and Zabuza are close. Even Koji is fond of Zabuza, who reminds him a bit of Tajima.

(Butsuma started out as a hardass, but Tajima had a soft spot for his boys that shriveled up with each death. Koji's memories of his dad are much fonder than Madara's memories.)

Cue Wave. It starts out as a completely mundane kill-a-guy-get-paid mission until Team Kakashi shows up and goddamnit, what is Madara doing in freaking Wave?! Because Sasuke reminds Koji far too much of little snot-nosed Madara who used to sneak into his bedroom after nightmares and would do anything if offered a week's share of dessert. And Team Kakashi is guarding their target. Fuck.

It's not hard to convince Haku - who doesn't like killing in general and doesn't like killing kids in particular - to aim to disable when he fights Naruto and Sasuke. And when the fight ends with no one dead or permanently maimed? Awesome, job well done, and oh look, Sasuke's coming over to address the elephant in the room, greeeaaaat. (Koji is amused to note that both Sasuke and Madara look vaguely constipated when anxious.)

Just, we have named characters outside of Konoha as well, I can dream, can't I?

11/18/2016 #2,607
Why was my immediate first thought for Obito's soul-guide to be Nawaki Senju (Tsunade's younger brother)? Ugh, and now all I can imagine is Nawaki-Obito giving medical tips to Rin and trying to fulfill his soul-guide's wish to find his his nee-chan who must be missing him but she's already out of the village. But then Kannabi Bridge happens and Tobi refuses to look for her. And then, years later, he finally sees his big sister as she fulfills his dream but he can't do anything and the little soul he's supposed to be guiding is on the exact opposite side of the fight and trying to hurt his nee-chan and Konoha (which he DIED for, Obito, what the he'll, snap out of Madara's brainwashing and stop hurting my SISTER, dammit!)
11/18/2016 #2,608
And Sakumo as either Shikako or Sai's soul-guide. Or maybe Tenzo's. I just want one of the members of Team 7 to have Sakumo Hatake as their soul guide. Just for the pure fuzzy feels of it all
11/18/2016 #2,609

fkdlsj;flksdkjal FULL STEAM AHEAD, I AM COMPLETELY BEHIND SAKUMO SOUL GUIDE. I vote Sai for that extra dramatic tension. After all, Sai was raised by Danzo as an emotionless tool. If we go by anime canon, he had to fight his big brother figure to the death. He's very much a child who never got to be a child, always in Konoha's shadow.

How would Sakumo - comrades-before-mission Sakumo, who deeply loved his own very-talented son, who committed suicide from shame/guilt/depression - react to Sai's life? How would Kakashi react?

The answer is: poorly. Very, VERY poorly. Wave goodbye to Danzo, everyone.

Nawaki-Obito makes me too sad for words - good job.

Edit: So theoretically, if we have/include Mito-Sakura (mentioned in my first post) as honorary Team 7, so far the Team's guides are Hashirama, Madara, Minato(Kawarama), Tobirama, Sakumo, and Mito. I don't think we stacked this team enough - who does Tenzo get?

11/18/2016 . Edited 11/18/2016 #2,610
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