We're all just Dreaming of Sunshine
I've come to the realization that we fans of Silver Queen's "Dreaming of Sunshine" need a place to properly discuss this incredible story. So here it is, and have fun.
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FallTigerKisa
Yeah, my first thought was Sai too. But for Shikako's soul-guide I'm a little torn. As a soul from a different world, should she even HAVE a soul-guide? Or should she have one from her world? I'm partial to a previous soul-guide-type idea from a while ago with Shikako having Minato as a soul-guide, but I can't agree with the logistics of it all with him being in the Shinigami's stomach. I also like the idea of her having an Uzumaki as her soul-guide with me leaning towards Mito Uzumaki; though I then have a bit of an ick factor, cuz then you have Hashirama-soul-guide trying to get Naruto to try and get together with Shikako since she has his wife as a soul-guide ("you're obviously meant for each other, kid!")..... on second thought, that would be hilarious. If only for both Naruto and Shikako going "yeah, ew, no, s/he's like a brother/sister to me!" (and in Naruto's case, "I like Sakura-chan, you crazy weirdo! I don't care if you are the First Hokage, stop trying to get me together with my best friend!)
11/18/2016 #2,611
MoonlitMelody

Well, I'm probably at the front of the Minato-Shikako camp (see previous posts for exhibits A through Z), but I can dig a Mito-Shikako. Hashirama as the unwelcome shipper-on-deck is quite amusing.

I like involving Shikako in the mechanics of soulmate verses, but I can see a Blank!Kako verse for this kind of setting. Though now I'm wondering who she would have as a guide from her/our world. I mean, probably an OC, but what about someone famous? (I have absolutely no one in mind.)

11/18/2016 #2,612
FallTigerKisa

Just saw your edit and now, yeah, I find theverything Mito-Sakura soul-guide just as amusing for Hashirama shipper with on-board-Naruto. As for Tenzo, for some reason I can't help but headcannon him with a female soul-guide. So, maybe that one female clan mate of Hashirama's that was mentioned as being pretty badass (I wanna say her name was Toka Senju, but don't quote me on it).

11/18/2016 . Edited 11/18/2016 #2,613
clmineith

I kind of want Tenzo to gets Mito. Like: "you have my husband dna, so you're clearly my husband grandson (whatever how you get it), so you're like my grandson!"

I mean, any random Senju could do it, but I think a Senju would be more focused on the bloodline theft that the "now we are family" part. And Tenzo need a bit of Uzumaki crack in my opinion.

I know you'll see Sakura with Mito, but the other named Uzumaki is Kushina, and she died a bit too late... maybe Mito/Tenzo, and Kushina/Sakura?

Actually, Kushina as Inner!

11/18/2016 #2,614
FallTigerKisa
Oh my God, Sage of Six Paths soul-guide for Shikako. If you headcannon Beyond the Stars (which, it's my ficlet, of course I do), that would be perfect. But maybe that's just me being biased
11/18/2016 #2,615
Loeka

How about we give Tenzo Sakumo instead, and give Sai Mito (because can you imagine Elegant Punch To The Face Mito throwing all the wrenches in Danzo's plan to make a nice obedient soldier) and to round it up, Sakura gets Kushina. I think Kushina would really get tiny Sakura's insecurities in some ways, especially the forehead thing (remember the Hot Blooded Tomato)

Edit: got ninja'd on Sakura/Kushina X3

11/18/2016 . Edited 11/18/2016 #2,616
Laural Rose

Edit: When I posted this, I was a page behind; sorry all.

Actually, even in the anime, Sai didn't kill his brother—Shin was already dying, and wanted Sai to kill him, because he wanted to protect Sai.

So; having Sakumo riding shotgun in Sai's head during all this would make it amazing, since Sai explicitly refused to fight his brother even after Danzo gave the order.

Ultimately, Shin died from incurible-cough-o'-death, which he claimed was untreatable (I have some theories about this), and faked the scene to make it look like Sai killed him. I can see Sakumo very much Approving of Shin (and very much NOT Approving of Danzo).

Also, I have a kind of headcanon where Sai attaches himself to Kakashi, seeing him as a kind-of father figure, because he's so screwed up, commander-I-would-die-for=father in his mind (thanks, Danzo). Basically, since Danzo was "father" of ROOT (all the little ROOT drones were brothers and sisters, right? Also, Danzo was using ROOT to pervert the Hokage/village relationship, and Hiruzen was all about being the "father" of the village), and Sai replaced Danzo's world-view with Kakashi's Will of Fire, so Sai latched onto Kakashi—the guy who taught Naruto (Sai's new brother), the guy who Sai's captain (Yamato), a fellow escapee from ROOT looks up to—as his new father-surrogate. Hopefully you can at least see where I'm coming from if you squint with this.

So, if Sai's got Sakumo in there, the family connection becomes stronger, because "hey, that's my kid", but also twistier, because Sakumo who is father of Kakashi who is "father" of Sai, but Sakumo is also kind-of the "father" or "oldest brother" of Sai, too, because he's in there guiding Sai, so there's a lot of family inter-connections.

Basically, anything that strengthens Sai's healthy relationships, I am DOWN for that, and there's something I've always found super-compelling about the (platonic, because power imbalances played for romance squick me worse than pretty much anything) Sai-Kakashi dynamic.

*

Imagine if poor Tenzo had Butsuma, though. It would fit, in that the Universe seems to find him chew-toy shaped. His like / respect for Kakashi (Tobirama's in there, and it's pretty obvious Tobirama was Butsuma's favorite), his exasperation / not putting up with your shit with Naruto (Butsuma had issues with Hashirama from a very young age on). And; Tenzo's ultimate rebellion against Danzo—That's TAJIMA. KILL IT.—when shown another path by Kakashi (it's Tobirama—he's smart, listen to him).

Then there's the internal tension of Tenzo not wanting to be a Senju and wanting to figure out who he is, with Butsuma being gleeful over finally (if indirectly) getting the Mokuton—which was wasted on his day-dreamer son—but also annoyed that his Clan's great technique manifested in someone out-clan, and Butsuma can't understand why Tenzo isn't honored to be Hashirama's clone (because even a day-dreamer Senju like his idiot son is better than an outclan orphaned nobody).

Now, we haven't seen him interact with DOS Sasuke, so I'm not sure how they're personalities work when Sasuke isn't a traitor to Konoha, but I can imagine that being a special headache for the man—That's Madara; Kill it!

11/18/2016 . Edited 11/18/2016 #2,617
FallTigerKisa
Ooo, Mito/Tenzo and Kushina/Sakura (that could still work if, as was brought up in an earlier post, children don't get their soul-guides until they're five). What a wonderful collection of OP soul-guides for our favorite characters
11/18/2016 #2,618
clmineith

I just think, someone had post somewhere (very precise, I know) that Kaguya could be from another world (not our world, just not Naruto world), and Hagoromo could be able to sense something on Shikako that remind him his mother, without understand what. So, Kaguya as Shikako's soul guide?

11/18/2016 #2,619
MoonlitMelody

Kushina is harder to finagle since Minato is already a Shiki Fujin handwave and I think Sakura has a March birthday. Unless...Kushina met up with Mikoto after Sasuke was born, and he has a July birthday. If you put the Academy age cut off for a given year between Sasuke and Sakura's birthdays, Sakura would be several months younger than Naruto to be in the same class year. Kushina's chakra/soul would have a very unusually fast turn around, but it's possible. And we can always give Sakura Toka or someone else instead.

Because I think you just converted me to Mito-Tenzo. Hell yeah, adopted grandson fluff!

Edit: I got ninja'd a lot, give me a sec.

11/18/2016 . Edited 11/18/2016 #2,620
Loeka

Kaguya as a soul-guide would we amazing! Especially because Shikako wouldn't even know who she is, seeing as she hadn't finished the manga X3 So to her, this is just a random OP character (see: Byakugan and six-tomoed Rinnegan third eye) she never even heard of (who may or may not be canon? Is this is even the canon universe, what with the soul-guide thing? Shikako is very confused) except her soul guide is CLEARLY not a ninja, with how... emotional she is. Or rather, how honestly emotional she is.

Example: Shikako goes to the academy, sees Naruto and Sasuke, and Kaguya just starts weeping, full out wailing with huge tears (all the while looking very elegant of course) and just rambling about her own children from who knew back when and how they betrayed her, but she still loves them so much, and she just wants them to be happy, but how can they ever be happy in this world torn apart by war? It's all so very tragic.

Shikako is very confused. Then Kaguya mentions one of her sons names. Haguromo. And she mentions the pretty eyes he never should have "stolen" from her.

Shikako: oh crap, I have the Sage of The Six Paths mother as my soul guide. And his mother is insane. What is my life even?

11/18/2016 . Edited 11/18/2016 #2,621
clmineith

Cue philosophical discussion about chakra/no chakra world. "I came from that horrid world wher magic people destroy the world with endless war! I sacrifice myself be becoming a magic godess so I could impose peace, but they spread that dirty chakra evrywhere!" "My world has war too! Worldwar even, and we didn't had chakra! And, medicine, think about medicine!"

11/18/2016 #2,622
MoonlitMelody

Okay, trying to catch back up with the conversation time!

Butsuma-Tenzo makes me sad. Maybe if we work some be-a-decent-person character development into Butsuma? Tenzo is one of those characters that I want to see happier, poor thing. (The KILL IT reaction is, however, quite funny)

Re: soul guides at five - I initially intended chakra to be inherited after death-before birth, so a guide has to be dead for a kid to get them as a guide. The at-five thing is so that the kids grow up and have some personality before a stranger pops up in their head (in-universe, small kids don't have enough chakra to support a guide). But the guide is still there from birth, just dormant.

Of course, we could make it dead-before-kid-reaches-five instead. Different underlaying logic, though.

Kaguya from another world was me! :D (Edit clarification: Well, I said Shikako reminded Hagoromo of his mom, someone else might have made the "from another world" next step in that logic, I don't remember.) Haha, didn't expect that to come back up. If Minato-Shikako is too suspension-of-disbelief breaking, I can get behind Kaguya-Shikako. Talk about story divergence, though.

Zetsu: I WILL PROTECT THIS SMOL CHILD.

Shikako: OH DOUBLE FUCK

11/18/2016 . Edited 11/18/2016 #2,623
clmineith

And Hokage!Shikako (or Otohime) rule the world with her army of Zetsu.

... team World Domination, indeed.

11/18/2016 #2,624
Loeka

Alternate character interpretation for Butsuma: Consider the world he lives in. Yes, in the two scenes we see him, he seems an abusive ass, but that's based on how he reacts to Hashirama during his son's funeral.

So instead of saying: he's abusive because he's an ass, have the motivation be different:

My son Hashirama is a day-dreamer who is unbelievably naive about how the world works and it's going to get him killed, just like my other sons already have. I need to be tough on him, I need to find a way to make him see how the world really is, need him to understand that only the strong survive. If I can't find a way to do that, I'll soon have to bury him as well.

As for his reaction to Hashirama saying that his brother died for nothing:

How dare Hashirama say that. It's the same as saying that his brother's life had no meaning, no value, that his death wasn't a loss. When it is a loss, losing any member of the Senju is always a loss, but losing one of my own children kills off a piece of me every time it happens.

So instead of saying Butsuma is abusive because he's an arrogant/merciless/emotionally stunted ass, say it's because he doesn't know how he can get Hashirama to become "tough enough" to survive the cruel world that is the Warring Clans Era. And just like practically everyone else in that world, the notion of peace/cooperation doesn't ever enter his mind.

There's a reason Hashirama's/Madara's plan to build a Village together was considered an impossible and childish dream.

Also, Butsuma's abusive punch of Hashirama? Well, make one of his personality flaws that he has a quick temper, and combine that with the fact that this is his son's funeral, and he overreacted. Not to mention that when you add in the physical training/spars that are considered normal, his hit, while still far too hard, isn't quite on the same level of abuse as we would consider it. And the reason he doesn't act like that towards Tobirama is because, unlike with Hashirama, Butsuma doesn't worry (too much) about him being hard/tough/practical enough to be able to reach adulthood.

Also, I'm not excusing Butsuma's behavior. No matter what motivation, the scenes where we see him, he is a complete ass. But if you change the motivations behind that behavior, you can make him behave differently if you give him as a soul-guide to Tenzo as well (or to anyone else) more tough love so that you'll be strong enough to survive, instead of abusive ass who makes Tenzo's life a living hell.

11/18/2016 . Edited 11/18/2016 #2,625
FallTigerKisa

Yeah, they would have to gain their soul-guides at five for your Minato-Shikako headcannon to take place (seeing as he clearly wasn't dead until she was a few weeks old). But I do like the idea of Shikako being thought Blank as you will because her soul guide is inside the Shinigami's stomach. It would be funny if she suddenly gets him as a random voice in her head after several years whenever Orochimaru cuts the Shinigami's stomach open to get back his ability to use Chakra in his arms (like, she was empty in her head all her life and thought she just didn't have a soul guide cuz her soul wasn't from this world but then, hello, there's now a dorky Seal Master in her head one day - even more hilarious if he pops up when she's writing out a seal, all focused and serious, and he's all like "hey, what's that matrix above the Blast Kanji for?)

11/18/2016 . Edited 11/18/2016 #2,626
donahermurphy
Thinking more on the soul guide universe, they probably have a word for the student of a soul guide. (Hauntee? Child-of-spirit? I kind of like that idea: whether or not they have kids, everyone is taught that they get a child-of-their-spirit when they die. They don't necessarily have to be a parent to them- they can be teacher, friend, or accomplice on crime. But you always get one.) And Oh my gosh, "I must protect the smol child"Zetsu is the best Zetsu idea ever. I mean, Black Zetsu isn't even really plant-like- he's so hard to kill, he's practically a living shadow with eyes. Wonder what the Nara would make of him. Why am I now imagining Shikaku having a run-in with Zetsu: "You seem an adequate paternal figure. Yes, I think I will let you live. May all your days be full of good fortune, and all your enemies suffer mysterious deaths." All Shikaku's enemies (and some 'enemies') subsequently DO suffer mysterious deaths. Mysteriously.
11/18/2016 #2,627
donahermurphy
Also, I LIKE that alternate character interpretation of Butsuma. (I wonder how he would react to seeing Hashiramas village but hardly any Senju?)
11/18/2016 #2,628
Loeka

Funnily enough, Zetsu never appears inside the Nara compound.

The Deer won't let him.

11/18/2016 . Edited 11/18/2016 #2,629
FallTigerKisa

So that equals out to, Hashirama-Naruto, Madara-Sasuke, Tobirama-Kakashi, Absent!Minato-Shikako, Kushina-Sakura, Sakumo-Sai, and Mito-Tenzo. All the yes OP-ness

Edit: Whoops, I was Ninja'd a few times

11/18/2016 . Edited 11/18/2016 #2,630
MoonlitMelody

@clmineth I for one welcome our new Otohime overlord. ALL HAIL!

@Loeka Tough-love Butsuma who's focus is on survival first, fluffy emotions (a very distant) second. It would be very different from Mito-Tenzo...but still compelling. I think both Sai and Tenzo (and everyone in ROOT, really) need supportive soulguides. Butsuma is unconventionally supportive from our perspective, but interpreting him as a not-nice-but-earnest "pull yourself up, stop wallowing" kind of guy could fit the bill. (I think I've been headcanoning him this way, to be honest. Abusive!Butsuma has always fallen flat for me, and this might be why.)

@FallTigerKisa Wibbly-wobbly...timey-wimey...Shiki fujin stuff. Yeah, my justification for Minato-Shikako was pretty weak, I will admit. But we had explored "Shiki Fujin handwave bullshit" briefly in the forum before, so I jumped on it. And without the handwave, I'd still have to deal with DOS/canon standard Shiki fujin to make dead-before-five work. I was being self-indulgent...

Wanting Shikako to grow up not blank is also self-indulgent...but dork Minato showing up unannounced 10-ish years late is pretty funny.

@dona and Loeka

"You seem an adequate paternal figure. Yes, I think I will let you live. May all your days be full of good fortune, and all your enemies suffer mysterious deaths."
Funnily enough, Zetsu never appears inside the Nara compound.

The Deer won't let him.

*dies from laughing too hard*

*

11/18/2016 #2,631
clmineith

Absent!Minato? Maybe. But, considere that: People get reincarnate. It happens. Sometimes between worlds, even. But they forget their past life, a very long process. An impress persists, due to chakra, and after some time it dissipe or, if there is an appropriate candidate, get fixed on a newly live soul (not their own, since they are in the erease memory process). Minato though, is in the God of Death stomac, so he's not in the reincarnation wheel, and his impress is somehow link to his soul. And since Death is eternal Time is not very important. So, if the soul he guides is already born when he died? pft! Shikako? reborn perfectly normaly. But she get Minato as a soulguide, so things can be a bit... strange. He is Minato, not just an impress, and he is in the shinigami, so their shared mindspace is not actualy in Shikako mind (which would be normal) but in some... limbo. Cue her hability to avoid death.

11/18/2016 #2,632
Loeka

The soul-guide thing would actually be very interesting for ROOT in general, because it means that no matter what Danzo's does, he can't be the only influence in their lives. At the very least, it would mean he searches for candidates with easily manipulable/like-minded (to him) or hostile soul-guides (or rather, soul-guides their spirit-children are already predisposed to ignore) It would also mean that the indoctrination would be different, given that he would have to drive a wedge between the soul-guides and their spirit-children. Not the "graduation exam", I'm talking more about the indoctrination leading up to it.

On the flip side, he could also search for children with OP soul-guides precisely to exploit them. In fact, he'd probably do both.

11/18/2016 . Edited 11/18/2016 #2,633
Juno-nine

The premise of this is also that 'at 5, shinobi children do a jutsu/ritual that gives them a guide'... now recall that at a very young age Shikako was considered to be hypersensitive. She might be a 'blank' (like civilian children) because she was never 'signed up' for one. Its an opt in system rather than an opt out one. And given that Shikako is from a world that doesn't have this cultural practice so she just might find the idea of having a ghost hanging around 24/7 weird and not opt in when given the chance.

And really, given the way the dice rolls, she might not get someone helpful. That's a huge risk to take. Given the earlier discussions about Danzo, there doesn't seem to be anything that makes the guides be non-harmful.

11/18/2016 #2,634
Loeka

I thought the premise was: children do a ritual at age five, but if you don't do the ritual, you'll still get a soul-guide somewhere before your tenth birthday. Or did I get that wrong?

11/18/2016 #2,635
MoonlitMelody

...here's the thing, it's not really opt-in, at least not the way I imagined it. Ritual or no ritual, everyone ends up with a guide by age 10. It's like puberty - totally unavoidable. Happens to civilians too.

And the opt-out seal has risk associated with it. Though I might renege on that a bit - that was more to keep people from sealing willy-nilly and ending up with a near-canon state anyway.

Edit: Loeka the Ninja is correct

Edit the Second: How about the opt-out seal has no real risk to it, but it fries your chakra network. For a ninja, it's career ending. It would even take Rock "can't jutsu to save his life" Lee out of ninja life permanently.

11/18/2016 . Edited 11/18/2016 #2,636
ByeByeBriar

I love Sakumo-Sai soul guides. But I'd also love to throw in something. Soul guides that aren't connected to Konoha showing up in Konoha. Or better yet, soul guides that are connected to Konoha showing up in other villages.

Hirashima getting himself attached to Gaara.

Tobimaru as a soul guide for Killer B.

Mito as as soul guide for Mei.

11/18/2016 #2,637
MoonlitMelody

*raises hand* I tried for Haku, but I didn't go whole-hog named-character with him.

Hashirama-Gaara: In which Hashirama gets a front-row seat to just how wrong his 'give villages bijuu' plan went. AKA the most efficient way to make Hashirama feel like shit (even more than watching Naruto growing up). Gaara probably had some serious guide-bijuu-psych problems growing up. OR Hashirama's proto-Therapy-no-Jutsu had a non-zero impact on his childhood.

Tobirama-Killer B: LOL what is up with the rapping? Honestly don't have a lot for this one.

Mito-Mei: Hmm. HMMMMMM. Very Elegant Punch.

11/18/2016 #2,638
Loeka

Instead of Hashirama getting attached to Gaara (I'm assuming you meant Hashirama instead of Hirashima at least :p) how about giving him Dan? I think he would be a very good influence on Gaara :)

(this is purely because I think that with the whole Indra-Asura reincarnation thing, the odds of Naruto and Sasuke not getting Hashirama and Madara is about zero. But that's just my own opinion of course)

(also, imagine the reactions after Gaara is Kazekage/Tsunade is Hokage. I don't think she'd have any way of knowing who Gaara's soul-guide was before that, given the lack of contact. But Dan being Gaara's soul-guide would be another unofficial but very strong motivation to keep relations with Suna good, at least on Tsunade's side, what with her guilt over his death. Which Dan immediately tries to make her let go of the moment he becomes aware of it of course)

11/18/2016 . Edited 11/18/2016 #2,639
MathIsMagic

Wow, you guys are doing the 'posting faster than I can keep up' thing again, but for good reasons this time! Yay.

I'm HERE for Sakumo support (especially someone that gets to be in contact with Kakashi), Sai and Tenzou and the Root kids getting buddies, and for one of Madara's brothers to be there for Haku. Soooo cute.

Note that with the 5-10 years Danzou has, assuming he doesn't let his kids do the ceremony, I bet he could still indoctrinate them before their soul guide can come in and muck things up. Maybe that's the real purpose behind the graduation test ~10. The people with moral soul guides? They hesitate, and die for it.

11/18/2016 #2,640
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