Kataang or Zutara?
This argument has come up a lot, what are your opinions about Kataang and Zutara? Which pairing is more likely? Do you think they're age differences really matter? Everyone's invited! Keep it respectful, though.
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EfinityFabala

Kataangians, just so you know, this is why I think so many people like Zutara.

1. The whole opposites attract deal.

2. The relationship seems more... scandilous, if you will.

3. Aang hasn't hit puberty yet.

4. It's a step beyond the whole "brave hero gets the girl" thing.

5. Katara totally rejected Aang more than once.

6. Zutara is more unexpected and exciting than Kataang. Kataang was obvious from the beginning.

7. Zutara is more of a love/hate relationship, which makes it all the sweeter when they have moments.

8. Zuko tried so hard to get Katara to accept him. It's nice to think that he got something in return other than an innocent friendship.

9. Katara went out of her way to make fun of Zuko when he first joined them. If that's not classic young love, nothing is...

10. They do look pretty dang hot together...

I'm sure there's more I could write, but I'm not going to put more work into it until people tell me their opinions.

Fellow Zutarians, give a shout so I know you're there!

My friend and I have this tradition... when the word "Kataang" or "Maiko" comes up in a discussion, we immediately have to clean out our mouths by saying "ZutaraZutaraZutara" haha we're so mature.

"ZutaraZutaraZutaraZutaraZutaraZutaraZutaraZutaraZutaraZutaraZutaraZutaraZutaraZutaraZutara................................................"

8/12/2009 #1
Son Kenshin

Now if you don't mind, I'll tear up your whole argument and leave you to cry.

1. Opposites attract does not work. And if anything, Katara and Zuko are so similar its possible to see them more as siblings than lovers.

2. Scandilous? That's your argument? You're making this too easy kid.

3. Last I checked, puberty started at age 13. Aang has reached 13 at the end of the series and is the most mature character of the show.

4. Its also a step back from good writing to crappy territory.

5. Wrong. She never rejected Aang at all. The only time it was *close* to that is when Katara was confused during the War. Stop making things up.

6. 'Unexpected and Exciting'. Gee, I wonder what other relationships are like that? Oh wait, a whole bunch of soap opera stories.

7. A love/hate relationship is not a good relationship.

8. Yeah, he got exactly what he wanted-Katara as a good friend instead of a bitter enemy. Besides, she loved Aang and Zuko loved Mai.

9. She also threatened Zuko's life if he ever hurt Aang. And its not 'making fun of' it was *mocking*. There is a difference kid.

10. And this sums up your stupid argument. 'They look hot together'. Thus, you shoot yourself in the foot to show how stupid you are.

8/12/2009 #2
Marius Prime

1. Stupid. They're not opposites at all. They're pretty similar, really. But they're similar in exactly the ways that mean a relationship between them is impossible.

2. Stupid. Something is often scandalous when it's absurd and impractical and just doesn't work.

3. Ridiculous. Unless you've given an animated character a physical, you can't argue about his state of physical development.

4. Absurd. Bad and implausible relationship dynamics are not superior to classic ones.

5. Yeah, no.

6. Aang and Katara were an obvious match from the beginning. That's a good thing. The characters were written to be together, in much the same way Zuko and Katara were not.

7. They don't have a love/hate relationoship. They have a HATE relationship, which eventually progresses into uneasy acceptance and reluctant alliance.

8. Wha? This is just the most insane thing I've ever heard. Zuko was a pathetic, villainous character. If he got simple forgiveness, it would be more than he actually deserved.

9. "Make fun of"? She hated him, and expressed that at every opportunity.

10. Just the sort of quality argument we've come to expect.

8/12/2009 #3
EfinityFabala

whatever. ridicule me if you must, Kataangians. i really don't care.

zuko is hot... i will leave it at that.

8/12/2009 #4
EfinityFabala

:)

8/12/2009 #5
Son Kenshin

So you don't care if your argument is juvenile and reflects your age and life experience?

8/12/2009 #6
EfinityFabala

i stand by Zutara. simple as that.

8/12/2009 #7
EfinityFabala

i'm just a kid. am i supposed to be some kind of all-knowing psychological guru?

8/12/2009 #8
Son Kenshin

You stand by a failure of a relationship that relies on OC's called Zuko and Katara to get it to work. You forget and ignore canon facts and you act like we should bow down to your explanation. Zutara is a bad relationship. Its not healthy.

8/12/2009 #9
Son Kenshin

No, but you are suppose to know how relationships work. Unless you spend your time reading Twilight and think that that's a good example of healthy relationships.

8/12/2009 #10
EfinityFabala

i really don't need this. clearly i'm an idiot, so i'm just not going to post anymore. :)

8/12/2009 #11
EfinityFabala

Twilight is a load of crap.

8/12/2009 #12
Son Kenshin

You're not an idiot. You're just a kid who doesn't know how the real world and relationships work.

8/12/2009 #13
EfinityFabala

last time i checked, the world of avatar isn't exactly what one would call real. but i really don't want to argue, so i'm gonna leave.

8/12/2009 #14
Son Kenshin

The World of Avatar, bending aside, has a lot in common with the real world. And the creators who have experienced healthy relationships knew what they were doing when they wrote Aang and Katara getting together.

8/12/2009 #15
EfinityFabala

hmm that makes a lot of sense. (whispers, go zutara! i know, i'm biased and stubborn)

anyway, i'm not even in high school yet. you're 22.

no, looking at other people's profiles isn't stalkerish, i was just curious. do you flame peoples' stories often?

8/12/2009 #16
Son Kenshin

I don't flame stories. They can post them if they want. However, I post here to DEBATE.

8/12/2009 #17
sssweetie

Er, I thought there was no bashing in this forum. I feel like there is that on both sides here. Anyways,

Personally, I like Zutara, and I think they are similar enough and different enough to work together (similar mother issues, very different backgrounds, similar passionate personalities, different in how they use their passion, oh and the obvious water vs. fire). I just feel like they work really well together and that they have a lot of chemistry. And although chemistry doesn't make a relationship, it helps to start a relationship. Also, even since the beginning of the series (I have been re-watching it lately) they have some sort of messed up understanding of one another that culminated in the episode Crossroads of Destiny. I have more reasons but I am not feeling very articulate at the moment so I'll leave you with these three right now, and finish my reasoning later.

However I don't think it could have happened in the show unless the show continued for another season, mostly because they still hadn't gotten to known one another very well. Which is why I like to read epilogue fics =)

But mostly, back to the point of the thread, my reason that I love Katara and Zuko together, other than the reasons stated above, I love love-hate relationships. Classic literature is full of it, the most obvious example being Mr. Darcy and Elizabeth Bennet. It's a guilty pleasure, what can I say?

8/20/2009 #18
sssweetie

Sorry for double posting, just wanted to clear this up (and I don't think you can edit on here...) I know love-hate relationships are bad in real life, but I think that arguing/debating is fine, and healthy in a relationship, which is another reason that I think they belong together. They actually argue with one another, going back and forth and they resolved their issues and they are friends now. Because you can't be in a real romantic relationship without being friends in some manner. It's just at first, it is a love-hate relationship, and that kind of relationship is interesting to watch as a reader/viewer especially when it does develop into friendship/love. Again, this is just my opinion.

8/20/2009 #19
Omare Alloy

Some serious debating going on in here. Anyways, I ship zutara, but I actually like Kaatang for its sweet and innocent appeal. It also seems sweet that Aang finally gets the girl in the end, the classic hero gets girl. My attraction ends there though, its so cliche; Zutara may be cliche too, but Kaatang is a bit more cliche in my mind. Katara and Zuko may be alike in some aspects, but they are different in a couple of regions like shes water hes fire, and etc. I could name a bunch of reasons. They could never work together in the show because everyones been expecting kaatang since the beginning and no one wants to be like M. Night. In the mind of authors though it makes stories happen because they can actually create a story of them getting together while kaatang has already been written for us.

Also like sssweetie explained love/hate relationships may be bad for an actual relationship, but arguing isn't bad. If a couple didn't argue wouldn't that be weird? Also it seems to me Aang hasn't even reached puberty. He may in sense be the most mature of the gang, but in other aspects he isn't. His voice is still squeaky to me XD I could debate all day about this and I wouldn't back down because both sides has some pretty good arguements, but I will always be a zutara shipper.

8/21/2009 #20
sssweetie

Thanks for explaining some of the Kataang aspects to me. (I just personally see no appeal, other than the obvious fact that they both have childish crushes on one another, which is fine and normal for their ages, I just wished that the creators before pulling a Kataang ending on us, showed more of Katara's interest in Aang, because I saw none during the last half of the third season). I do understand the whole hero gets the girl (I've always been a Harry/Ginny shipper) but personally, I just don't see it in this case. (And yeah, it is a bit too cliche =P). And yes, the whole Aang not reaching puberty kind of freaks me out lol (just my opinion though ^_^).

8/21/2009 #21
Chilly Star

P.S. I'm a Zutarian.

1. Zuko and Katara are not complete opposites. They have an abundance of similarities that helps them to relate in some sort of way. The only thing they have opposite are their genders, elements, and relationship with their fathers.

2. Who even uses the word scandilous anyways, I don't even believe scandilous is even a word. And if you mean scandalous yeah, it would be pretty shocking.

3. Yep, though he saved the world without murdering a psychopathic freak, and managed to poison the minds of innocent children of the wonders of premature relationships, he still hasn't hit puberty. Despite being the most mature character of the show after dealing with the traumatic death of your guardian, the burden of the fate of the world in your hands, and knowledge of never knowing your birth parents. Ahem, I am not being sarcastic.

4. You're right, and everyone knows that the best stories are the ones when the main character loses the girl to the older, "hotter" male. (sarcasm) Besides, I'm normally a go for cannon, but strangly enough my little sister thought that I would prefer Tohru/Yuki over Tohru/Kyo from Fruits Basket. Let me name some "Zutara" stories....well, umm....there's The Dark Knight. Bruce was in love with Rachel (spelling is to annoy my sister) but she chose Harvey, but in the end both Harvey and Rachel died. And also, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, a classic movie from Disney, stars Quasimodo, an orphaned son of a gypsy who was cast off from society because of his handicap. (Now before I continue on, let me tell you that I have no idea why this is a children's movie, because there's a scene where that guy is singing about wanting to r*** and kill Esmeralda.) When he escapes to see the city, he bumps into a gypsy named Esmeralda and eventually gains feelings for her. But his dreams were shattered when he sees Phoebus and Esmeralda kissing. They eventually marry and have a son, by the way. At least that's a better ending then the one in the book, which haves Esmeralda dying.

5. Katara only rejected Aang once, for your information.

6. Wait, wait, I think I've heard this one before. Hey, if you want unexpected and exciting, make Toph and Katara make-out. That would be totally unexpected and loved. And yes, Kataang was obvious from the beginning, therefore lacking any romantic elements for my case as a love story.

7. Yes, in that way I see it sweeter than Kataang, but it wasn't a "love/hate"sort of thing until after The Southern Raiders. And even then it was still quite shaky, for it to have been made a better relationship it would have required a fourth season where they would search for Zuko's mother.

8. That wouldn't have been love, that would have been pity. A forced relationship because Katara felt sorry for Zuko, and about his life and neither of them would be happy with it.

9. That's really funny now. Aww...that's so cute, someone professing their extreme hate for someone, now that is true love. Katara started mocking him during the Ember Island Players.

10. Okay, that one is shallow and stupid. Only people with no lives tend to think that, and if not, you'd be better off as a Kataanger if you can't think of a good reason for Zutara.

8/21/2009 . Edited 8/22/2009 #22
Omare Alloy

you do have some good reasons, I'm officially in the middle for the zutara and kaatang thing. My opinion has been swayed a little. I can't see zutara happening in the show because of the extreme hate like amu miki said, but people have dreams and where there is canon there is fanon. It seems that the fanon has surpassed the canon though and the kaatangers for that reason got angry? Well, anyways ^^ you do have pretty good reasons against zutara, but then zutaras have good debates against kaatang. The war will never end o.o

8/21/2009 #23
shadowchsr

Well I don't know about others but this is the reasoning of this Zutaran.

1. I don't know about opposites attracting. I think aside from the elements they were on opposite sides of the war. Both of them were full of pride and stubborn and you do see Zuko with a compassionate nature under all the angry bluster he puts forward though it has a hard time coming out. I think Katara's nature to be able to forgive and open up is what Zuko needs otherwise he wouldn't have fought so hard for acceptance from his family. If anything I think the two can really complement each other and they worked well together once Katara was able to move past the pain of betrayal with Zuko. Unfortunately there was precious little time in the series for things to move beyond friendship. After all Katara was still unsure about what she felt for Aang during the Ember Island Players episode. and at that point she'd known him well for close to a year. She and Zuko had only managed a friendship for a few weeks.

2. I'm not certain if I really see the relationship as scandalous. I think there would be a greater outrage among people in the avatar world because she is not royal and not of the same people which is petty and a form of racism. I guess that can be considered scandalous. Their relationship has more obsticals to overcome in the eyes of others which can add to drama in a story as well as risk pushing them apart if it seems too difficult but we know Zuko never gives up without a fight. After all according to the Guru, there is no real separation of the people and the nations other than the separation that they enforce upon themselves. I see them getting together as a symbol of unity and healing.

3. As for Aang not hitting puberty, this is true but Katara is only two years older than him. Given time, if feelings are there they can and will blossom. I do admit it's harder to relate to aang because he does look so young but he matures greatly throughout the series. I think for me it's probably a bit because Aang is a pacifist and I'm not so while I can understand and respect his views, I can't really identify with him. Like Katara and Zuko there are times when I really just want to fight. I've also had bad experiances with vegetarians judging me for my choice to eat meat as if I'm lesser than they are. while Aang doesn't do that I can still see him possibly pressuring Katara to adapt to his views and lifestyle as he is the last of his kind. Katara's culture and upbringing means needing to kill and eat and utilize animals as part of survival as well as having a fighting spirit and hunting just to get by in her home. I feel a relationship with Aang runs a risk of compromising who she is, even though I know it wouldn't be Aang's intent.

4. I don't really see the difference between Aang or Zuko being hero's at the end of the series. Aang is the bigger hero as he is the hope for the world but Zuko is the hope for his people and without zuko, there is no guarantee that the firenation will remain peaceful or that the country itself won't be torn apart by civil war. and that just means more suffering. Aang gets to be the one to stop the fire lord and then move on, while Zuko has to be the one to keep the peace and put his country back together.

5. I don't see Katara rejecting Aang in the series. I think she was rather clueless at times to his feelings through most of the show and she didn't originally see him as a love interest but I think when he makes it known to her is when she starts to struggle with whether or not she really had feelings for Him. I feel it was never resolved. Before the battler Katara admits to feeling confused and not wanting to sort her feelings out toward to him and while she does care for him, it's not clear if she likes him that way and then after the battle they're kissing. We never really saw them talk about resolution or see katara getting over her conflicted emotions. She's just there with him.

6. I think unexpected and exciting is a point of view. Some identify with Aangs struggle to get the woman he loves and finds it exciting though that crush was established from the beginning of the series. There was no guarantee that they would be together. Happy ending or not the main story in Avatar is not the romances but the quest to save the world from destruction so I'm sure the writers really gave it a lot less thought than we do. the romance was a side story to everything else and to add a little extra spice to the main plot. What I found unexpected was how often Sokka had girls after him. There was Yue, Suki, Ty Lee and even Toph seemed to have a crush on him. Not to mention his flirting with the 5-7-5 club in Ba Sing Se.

7. I don't think Katara and Zuko really had a love hate relationship. At least not at their core selves. They were enemies because they were on opposite sides of the war. If the four nations had been at peace they may have never met and we know Aang and Katara would have never met as he wouldn't have been missing for 100 years. Once Katara got past her hate of Zuko personally they got along well as friends and more often than not you saw them working together with their attacks. It's like they fought often enough to know how to complement each other's strengths when they did fight on the same side. Sadly this didn't happen till near the end of the series and I think a lot o people mistake that for love/hate relationships when they didn't even really have a relationship before as neither would allow it.

8. All zuko asked for in the series was friendship from Katara. To get more isn't required and obviously was not asked for. For me I feel that a lot Zutarans were not happy with Zuko's relationship with Mai. For me it felt that Mai and Zuko was just kinda put together last minute to have something else for him to give up when he left, and possibly the only thing that he really regretted leaving behind. I know Mai loved him as the writers made that happen but until that point in the story their relationship felt disjointed and like they didn't really connect on a deeper level especially when she would seem to brush him off when he was trying to tell her how conflicted he felt. So I think we felt he deserved better than Mai even with her actions at the boiling rock.

9. I'm not sure if Katara making fun of Zuko was a sign of love but I do feel it was a sign of how hurt she was. I do feel that she wouldn't have been that angry and hurt at Zuko if she didn't try to open up to him. I think the seeds for something more was certainly there but that was ruined by his betrayal. There just wasn't enough time in the series after katara forgives him for anything to develope. After all even Aang says it's harder to forgive someone than to hate them. To forgive him and start extending that trust to Zuko again says to me a lot about Katara's heart as well as again the potential for more, especially after such personal blows to her, the loss of her mother and the betrayal of her trust.

10. Looks are never a reason to stay people should be together. I do feel though that there is an underlying chemistry between the two. Both when they were enemies and when they were allies. Though by that time Zuko had seen Mai sacrifice herself to save him on the Boiling Rock and her probably being his only regret in leaving the fire nation again. Still he made that sacrifice for the good of his country and the world. He let go of his attachments to do what is right, something even Aang had severe trouble doing. Or maybe he wasn't as attached to Mai (despite her feelings) and that means there is someone else out there for him. over all I felt ti was chemistry between them than just looks though maybe that's the same thing to a lot of people. It's certainly nearly as hard to explain why one prefers one look to another. I thought Aang was cute with hair. I still liked zuko better just like others will like Aang better.

well I've taken enough of your time with my ramblings. Hopefully I've given a little bit of solid reasoning behind why I like Zutara but even so, it's just a matter of opinion. My reasons are not everybody's but they are mine and we always have the right to think and feel what we do without it being considered wrong or deluded. I do feel Aang as the right to be happy but I just don't feel Katara is his best match. I don't know who would be though I do have my opinions on such I'd rather not take up anymore time with my ramblings.

8/28/2009 #24
Dukeofnachos

I'm a Zutarian for this reason and this reason only. To me, it just fits. You can point out why you think Kataang is better, but I can say three words that'll set you off into a name calling fest. I. Don't. Care. And i don't. Zutara works. There are certain pairings in certian shows that just click to me.

Bleach: Ichiruki? No. Byaruki? Yes!

Naruto: team 7 x Sakura. No. Pretty much everyone else x Sakura? Yes!

Teen Titans: Robin x Starfire? No. Speedy x Aqualad? Yes! Robin x Speedy? Probably!

Avatar: Kataang? Hell no. Zutara? Yes!

10/5/2009 #25
Marius Prime

I think I see where the confusion lies, Dukeofnachos. Believe it or not, the most unlikely and bizarre pairing possible is not in fact automatically valid, let alone inherently superior to all others. It is, in fact, the opposite of that. Invalid, inferior, and all around goofy. None of those pairings you approve of in this post would ever have a shot of happening while the characters were behaving as they normally would. These are known as bad pairings, and good fanfiction avoids them, favoring in-character, plausible interaction.

10/8/2009 #26
Dukeofnachos

It's known as variation from the norm. I never said these would happen, cause i know they won't. To me, they just click. It's not inferior, it's just crack. they aren't bad pairings. Goofy? Most of the ones i read are, but that's because i like to laugh. Crack pairings can stay in character just as well as canon. Really, I go with crack most of the time because the story isn't written for whoever wrote it. I often just put together my favorite characters then see what i can find. I never said they were superior. I just said i liked them. It's not confusion. I like what i like. You can go read some canon, while i read my crack-filled RichiexVirgil (static shock). And if you think about that, it really isn't crack, seeing as in the original comic book, Richie was gay. (off topic) All i have to say is Zutara is neither superior nor inferior to Kataang. It just didn't happen, and that's all. That's the only thing that Kataanger's have over Zutarians. And really, that doesn't matter. In fact, none of what i've just posted matters, because the shipping war will continue until things like Avatar and Dbz are the new star wars and every fan is in their forties, in thier mom's basement.

10/8/2009 #27
Chilly Star

According to some Kataangers, because I ship Zutara, therefore I am disrespecting the wishes of the creators of the show, or I'm just an immature little girl who has no idea about good relationships. (And if you hadn't noticed, most of the time when the female is older than the male the relationship never lasts long. Sometimes they lose their love, or one of them dies. I'm never seen a long lasting relationship when the female is older. So what if Aang is 112/113 years old, he's still physically and mentally 13 years old.) And if you know any, please be kind enough to point it out to me.

I am a cannon shipper, there has not be a story to date (other than Avatar and Iron man: Armored Adventures) that I've seen where I've disproved the cannon.

If any of you are Furuba (Fruits Basket) fans, I would like to point out that KYORU IS CANNON SO GET THAT IN YOUR HEADS! It drives me insane at the people who ship Kyo/Kagura or Tohru/Yuki. Tohru is like a mother to Yuki since his never cared for him, and he misinterpreted that as love, but he later realized that and even admitted it to Tohru. Kyo and Kagura was all based on pity, and besides, Kagura is two years older than Kyo! (uh...)

Although some people don't like any form of cannon, the only cannon I dislike are Kataang and Sukka. So try to correct my thinking all you want, but that's only my opinion (and the other people that I know who watch Avatar—which happens to be seven, except that annoying Kataanger in my class)

10/9/2009 #28
MelonRinds

or I'm just an immature little girl who has no idea about good relationships. (And if you hadn't noticed, most of the time when the female is older than the male the relationship never lasts long. Sometimes they lose their love, or one of them dies. I'm never seen a long lasting relationship when the female is older

That in itself kind of shows you have no idea about "good relationships" because what you said couldn't be more wrong. For your information, my mom is older than my dad and they are in a successful relationship. I am also older than my boyfriend (not by much, but still), and I find it kind of insulting that you just assume my relationship won't work because I as a woman am older. It's a far more successful relationship than many of my friends' - many who've dated older guys. I suggest you learn a little something from romantic relationships before making such ridiculous statements about them.

10/9/2009 #29
Chilly Star

Nope, that only shows that not everyone has come from the same environment. I'm sorry if I insulted you, but that's how it is in my everyday life. And there is this boy I know who has a crush on me and I'm older (not by much either) and he supports Kataang. And I also made it clear that that's only what I know when I asked for someone to correct me. Also, I stated "most of the time" I didn't refer to all. Because any kind of relationship can work in my eyes (except gay or i***) as long as both male and female are able to work together as one. Please don't call my statements ridiculous because that's only how I've seen it in life. I'm very sorry if I insulted you or your family. And my first comment about losing love was so uncalled for, (My parents both come from divorced homes and as long as they aren't having problems I'm okay with it) but the one about dying, I didn't necessarily mean it, because no one is excluded in tragedies. So I guess I have to explain my statements now, then?

10/9/2009 . Edited 10/9/2009 #30
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