Kataang or Zutara?
This argument has come up a lot, what are your opinions about Kataang and Zutara? Which pairing is more likely? Do you think they're age differences really matter? Everyone's invited! Keep it respectful, though.
New Follow Forum Follow Topic
Page 1 2 Next »
ms.diamondpearl
Most zutarian say that: Aang is childish. H is to short for Katara he hasnt hit puburty yet ,and he is two years younger than her.These are the only saying that i recieve from them. Sometimes they even put inbig words to make it seem that they actually have a point. Zutarians these are the three reasons why you say zutara could workn they have chemistry with eachother(Katara had only got to know Zuko for a week and it was at the last minute too) The southeren raiders(may i remind you Zuko was influencing Katara to MURDER someone ,while Aang was doing the mature thing and talking her out of it.Zuko had stated that it wasn't Airnomad preschool and it was about getting revenge.He was willing for Katara to becom corroupt from murder just to gain her trust.)Attack of the notheren watertribe and the waterbending scroll(he left her her unconcious and bended her to a tree not even checking if she was okay.Again he left her tied to a tree threatning the life of her and her brother.)
8/29/2010 #1
Mrs Pettyfer

Well, I'm not sure what you're asking here personally. But the reasons you stated..Aang being too young, too short, etc..well wouldn't those be reasons why someone thinks Katara shouldn't be with Aang? That has nothing to do with why one would believe she should be with Zuko. And in Southern Raiders, I don't think he was trying to be a bad influence on her. Though Aang's intentions were more..peaceworthy, I think he could never understand the loss of a mother the way Zuko does. He grew up with monks, and that is different than the way a child and mother bond.

I don't really think Katara saw it as revenge, but more so as justice. A life for a life as you will. But it's a kids show, the main girl isn't going to kill anyone lol. So I never saw it as Zuko was trying to get her to be a murderer. I saw it more as he understood her and it was her choice whether or not she killed the man. It wasn't his place to stop her. I don't know, I haven't lost my mother but I'm pretty sure if I had to suffer that way, my sanity and logic might be a little faulty lol.

8/29/2010 #2
Sly Mongoose

Why do people continually discount the pain Aang has suffered? I mean he lost his entire people, he's the LAST Airbender, and yet I see people claim, again and again, that he can't understand Katara's loss. At least Katara has her father and brother, not to mention her tribe and people. It's like these fans never saw the episode where Aang learned how his father figure, Iatso, died. He was furious and in massive amounts of pain. However since people don't see Aang wallowing in misery all the time they discount his loss.

Also, Aang knew Katara needed to confront her mother's killer, he knew it was her choice, he just encouraged her to make that choice with a clear head. Katara isn't a killer, and had she murdered that man, because killing someone as she nearly did is murder, she would've eventually regretted her decision.

Zuko didn't really understand Katara or the situation. In fact he was simply trying to atone for his past mistakes. It wasn't until after the two returned from their side trip that he finally understood what it was Katara needed. Something Aang had long since known. 'The Southern Raiders' shows that Aang understands Katara better than Zuko.

8/31/2010 #3
Mrs Pettyfer

It's Gyatso by the way.

I didn't say Aang didn't have loss. Of course he did. It's horrible he lost the Airbenders after he left them; the guilt would be painful enough. I'm saying that's not the same as your mother. A mother and child, like I said earlier, have the strongest connection that can never be replaced. As selfish as this sounds, I'd rather lose everyone from my state or home than my mom. Sounds harsh but it's just my honest opinion. Even with a dad and brother, it's not the same. So in that aspect, I think Zuko understands her loss better than Aang because he lost the same thing. Though I think Aang understood the idea of closure better than Zuko.

8/31/2010 #4
Amira Elizabeth

Aang lost his parent figure too. Again, I agree with Sly because it is basically reducing Aang's relationships. You could see Gyatso loved him. He was willing to argue for Aang's ability to be normal. He was willing to argue to be able to keep Aang. He said in the storm when knocking on Aang's door: "I'm not going to let them take you away from me..." I think he would have defied everyone just to see Aang happy and loved. And that is exactly what a parent does. And you could see when Aang was grieving, he was just as profound as Katara or Zuko's. He was so emotionally distraught in episodes like "The Southern Airtemple", "The Avatar State" (when he thought Katara had been killed by General Fong), and "The Desert.". I would wager Aang understands Katara's loss, and sympathizes with it. I think he can easily relate to it and share the pain of loss with her. But where Aang has a definite leg-up over Zuko is in the wisdom of needing to heal and not being so consumed by grief that one becomes bent on revenge and anger.

And this is not ship bias talking. The series showed the parent/child relationship of Aang and Gyatso, the heart wrenching grief of Aang's loss, and his wisdom and maturity over the issue in later episodes like TSR. Sadly Aang can't even have his losses recognized by Zutarians and in truth this need to reduce Aang in character and circumstance is kind of lame.

9/1/2010 #5
TigerShadow

I don't really care that Aang is too short, just to get that out of the way. It's not a big deal if the guy's shorter or not. In fact, seeing beyond physical attributes and learning to appreciate inner beauty is part of loving other people.

However, I do have a problem with the latter two--Aang being too young and not having yet hit puberty.

Aang is too young for romance--too young to be in love. I know he cares about Katara and wants the very best for her, but so he does for the rest of the world. I can't tell you how many people around Aang's age that I've had to resist laughing at for their constant claims that they are "in love" with someone. Uh, what? At the age of twelve, you have at least some idea of what love in general is, but you don't know what that other kind of love is--the kind of love Aang thinks he has for Katara. Not very many people do, not even as late teens or young adults. I don't care how "mature" people think Aang is--he's not ready for that kind of relationship.

He also hasn't hit puberty yet, and it's fairly obvious. "But he grew taller and his voice got lower and everything!" So does everyone else's. You don't have to have entered puberty for your voice to lower and for you to get taller. The fact that he hasn't even hit puberty yet is another indicator of his immaturity and of the fact that he's just not ready for this yet. I'm sorry, but when you think about it, it just seems really weird and awkward to see a kid who likely hasn't even entered puberty yet to be swapping spit with a girl who is right in the middle of it.

10/26/2010 #6
Azula's Favorite Prisoner

And what about Zuko? His brain hasn't fully developed either.

10/30/2010 #7
TigerShadow

Well, I wasn't really talking much about Zuko, because the topic in question hasn't been about Zuko. But as far as he's concerned, no, his brain is not fully developed. Not very many sixteen-year-olds fall in love at that age, and Zuko is no different. But he's at least somewhat more aware of what a sacrifice it is to love.

Just to let all of you know what I feel about it, love isn't so much a feeling as it is a decision, and Aang basically relies on his feelings to get him through everything, which is basically the Oprah Winfrey theory--yet another reason why, well, I just don't like Aang as far as being a love interest goes. It just doesn't work for me in that it really doesn't make a while lot of sense.

10/31/2010 #8
Mrs Pettyfer

I agree with you TigerShadow and that's one of the reasons I don't ship Kataang. It has nothing to do with Zutara. Aang is 12...he's a kid. He should be focusing on being a kid and really, most 12 year olds aren't looking for a serious relationship. And Aang is the Avatar, he has the world to worry about. I don't think Aang should be in a relationship with anyone, personally. Relationships are hard work, time consuming, and can be stressful. Yes, they do have their obvious perks but still...not all of them are rainbows and fluffy bunnies. Aang doesn't need that extra stress anyway. Even if Maiko was in the picture, I still wouldn't ship Kataang. It just doesn't work for me.

I also agree with TS that I don't see Aang as a love interest character. Two years age difference isn't much, and Katara is in the middle of both Aang and Zuko. But a 12 year old boy and 14 year old girl IS a larger difference mature wise compared to a 14 year old girl and 16 year old boy. To say Aang is wiser because he's 112 or whatever is silly. He was trapped in ice all those years..he didn't mature magically while being in the Avatar State. He's still a kid..as he said in the finale of season I. Now had Aang been 15 and Katara 17, I think they would have been more leveled maturity wise and it would have made more sense.

I had a problem with the execution of Kataang. That's what bothered me the most and for that, I blame Katara. There were no obvious signs of romance from her toward Aang unless you count blushed cheeks and smiles. To me, she seemed smitten by the attention she received from a younger boy...as a lot of 14 year old girls would. Aang genuinely liked Katara as more than a friend..it was obvious. After she practically turned him down after he kissed her in the Ember Island Players, I was really shocked by the finale kiss. It seemed forced and out of character. While hunting for the White Lotus members and fighting Azula and saving Zuko, I'm not sure when she managed to work out that confusion. That was what annoyed me most. Had Katara shown more interest before the finale, interest as strong as Aang, the kiss would have made more sense to me. Or had the scene in Ember Island Players not happened..or even happened earlier in the series.

I could have accepted and maybe even liked Kataang..had it been executed better. And again, my reasons have nothing to do with Zutara or any other ship. This is based only on the Kataang relationship as I saw it. No disrespect here, I'm just giving my opinion. =)

11/15/2010 #9
Crow's Reach
So what he was encouraging her to murder? I don't see how that's a reason for someone not to love a person, ahem, Bonnie and Clyde. Heard of them? Anyway I don't care about maturity or puberty or age differences, I don't like Kataang because Katara and Aang make an ugly couple. Plain and simple. She looks good on Zuko's arm, not the avatars. That's my reason.
8/30/2011 #10
Cadilus

So what he was encouraging her to murder? I don't see how that's a reason for someone not to love a person, ahem, Bonnie and Clyde. Heard of them?

Yes, I've heard of them. I'm sure for some people, encouraging murder is not a serious detractor, or even not a detractor at all. However, Katara is a specific character, not a general "someone". Your reasoning would be more effective if you explain why the encouragement doesn't affect Katara specifically.

((In truth, I'm not sure how much encouragement he was actually doing...seems more of a tacit consent than explicit influence))

As for your preference, to each his own.

8/30/2011 #11
heza08

I think this whole current argument is one of those interpretation things; your opinion of it is going to depend on your very personal, nitty-gritty view of all three characters. Here's mine:

Aang and Zuko both understood Katara--just not every part of her. Aang, knowing Katara as well as he does, knew that the answer for Katara wasn't to visit vengeance on her mother's killer. He knew that would make Katara someone she couldn't live with being; it would affect her down to her very core, and it wouldn't give her any peace at all. She would feel guilt. However, he did try to stop her from going at all. It was Zuko, while not really knowing Katara enough to fully understand what gaining vengeance would do to her, who knew that she, at the very least, needed closure. If she hadn't gone, if she hadn't faced the man who killed her mother and figured out for herself that she had to let it go, then she would have stayed in that version of her character indefinitely, never dealing with her rage and never moving forward emotionally.

Some people can certainly say that Zuko wasn't trying to help Katara at all, that he was advocating murder and trying to push her into it. I don't think those people have the same view of Zuko's character that I do. Some people can also say that Aang doesn't get how much Katara was hurting and how she needed to get past it. I don't think those people view Aang's character the way I do, either.

And (to dredge up an argument from a year ago because I've never actually seen this thread) I do think that Aang's loss and Katara and Zuko's losses are different. It doesn't diminish Aang's loss to say so. It doesn't disregard Aang's loss, it doesn't reduce his character, and it isn't lame. It's not a lesser loss; it's a different loss. I don't know if anyone else here has actually lost their mother. I'm getting to the age where people I've known all my life are passing away. I lost my mother a few years ago. Some people move on. Some people hold onto that pain for a very long time, and it is a very, very specific pain. Losing your "people," losing a father figure, losing friends... those are all poignant, tragic losses that can be felt very keenly by the survivors. They are not lesser than losing a mother, but they are different. I have no doubt that Aang can relate to the pain of Katara's loss, and he can sympathize very well with it. I don't believe he can fully empathize with that specific pain and the particular fears and regrets that come with it. I never heard Aang talk about his mother, so I'm assuming he was too young to remember her when he was taken to the temple. While he doesn't get a lot of other things about Katara, I do think Zuko is the person best suited to fully understand the loss of her mother and what that specific event means.

8/31/2011 #12
Cadilus

Aang and Zuko both understood Katara--just not every part of her. Aang, knowing Katara as well as he does, knew that the answer for Katara wasn't to visit vengeance on her mother's killer. He knew that would make Katara someone she couldn't live with being; it would affect her down to her very core, and it wouldn't give her any peace at all. She would feel guilt. However, he did try to stop her from going at all. It was Zuko, while not really knowing Katara enough to fully understand what gaining vengeance would do to her, who knew that she, at the very least, needed closure. If she hadn't gone, if she hadn't faced the man who killed her mother and figured out for herself that she had to let it go, then she would have stayed in that version of her character indefinitely, never dealing with her rage and never moving forward emotionally.

Yes. Much so.

Some people can certainly say that Zuko wasn't trying to help Katara at all, that he was advocating murder and trying to push her into it. I don't think those people have the same view of Zuko's character that I do. Some people can also say that Aang doesn't get how much Katara was hurting and how she needed to get past it. I don't think those people view Aang's character the way I do, either.

Zuko certainly wasn't advocating murder. He was advocating closure with a hint of justice. His definition of justice involves revenge, yes, but for all that, it was indeed a journey that Katara needed. Aang realized his daylight mistake (it came from the right place, but it was not what she needed at the time) and corrected it at night. Zuko's actions...they were Renegade, if I may use the Mass Effect morality system. Getting the job done (Katara's closure) took precedent over any risk involved (that she might actually kill the guy). It worked...whether it is believed to have been with Aang's influence or without, Zuko's influence worked. As such, I think he was right about the journey.

The thread about losses was disgusting. But I like your further analysis of the losses. As I see it, Aang's loss is on the same level, but it's on the left rather than the right. Katara's (and Zuko's) was a sharp, horrible pain, a very focused loss with a fresh round of guilt. Aang's was more of a gaping chasm, a choking cloud of grief that expands over an entire culture, with a fresh round of guilt.

EDIT: Okay, this paragraph breaks issue is getting ridiculous. Does anyone know what the problem is?

8/31/2011 . Edited 8/31/2011 #13
heza08

EDIT: Okay, this paragraph breaks issue is getting ridiculous. Does anyone know what the problem is?

I just noticed this edit, but... oh my gosh! That stupid paragraph thing is fully want 90% of my edits are for. The other 10% are because I can't spell. :P

That's driving me absolutely bonkers, though. I thought it was because I was writing my posts in Word and then copying them in, but it does it (randomly) when I just write in the window, as well.

9/1/2011 #14
chromeknickers

Aang's [loss] was more of a gaping chasm, a choking cloud of grief that expands over an entire culture, with a fresh round of guilt.

Thank you.

9/1/2011 #15
Crow's Reach
I just think Katara looks good on Zuko's arm. Personalities aside, bending aside, age aside and even the entire storyline aside, I think physically Zuko and Katara look good together. That's why I like them. Is that petty?
9/3/2011 #16
Cadilus

Is that petty?

Petty = "of little importance; trivial"

If you don't (or do) think it's petty, then I'm not sure why ask the question. I don't think it's petty for a cartoon ship.

9/3/2011 #17
Crow's Reach
I don't know if I keep offending you Cadmos but you seem to be replying to a lot of my comments that weren't aimed at you. In this case I was directing the question of pettiness at ms. Diamond pearl or whoever considering she's the one who named a list of petty reasons to like Zutara. Not you in particular.
9/3/2011 #18
Cadilus

My sincerest apologies if my post came off as barbed. It was not my intent to seem as though I was attacking in any way. I was simply responding to the question you posed :)

9/3/2011 #19
Cadilus

And you're not offending me. I've had some very bad luck with your posts - sometimes they're after mine, so I assume it's a response when it may not be. My tone is clipped because I've been exhausted for nearly two weeks and it's starting to affect how I "speak" :(

9/3/2011 #20
chromeknickers

Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!

:D

9/3/2011 #21
Cadilus

Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!

Some other time, haha. She hasn't given me a reason to flame, so she and I have no quarrel ;)

Oh, and you forgot:

*popcorn*

9/3/2011 . Edited 9/4/2011 #22
Crow's Reach
I know I keep accidentally replying to all of your posts Cadmos but this one is aimed directly at you. Are you calling me a male? *Some other time, haha. He hasn't given me a reason to flame, so he and I have no quarrel ;)* I'm not sure if you're talking about me but I'm a girl.
9/3/2011 #23
chromeknickers

Oh, and you forgot: *popcorn*

I put some in TWFZ, mate. :D *munches*

9/3/2011 #24
Cadilus

The failure of the Internet. Sorry bout that, I'll go change it. Are there any other males on this board?

I put some in TWFZ, mate. :D *munches*

Ah, thank you, didn't see it. You know, speaking of soda, I actually had Sprite for the first time in my life yesterday. Never been a soda person, but this time it was just there and, well...Milestones be crazy.

9/3/2011 . Edited 9/3/2011 #25
Crow's Reach
No worries Cadmos not saying boys are stupid but your obvious level of intellect and snappy way of writing led me to believe you were female lol yes, I checked out your profile.........I am a stalker.
9/3/2011 #26
Cadilus

LOL, I should type more dumber then...

*shifty eyes*

I appreciate the compliment and will studiously avoid any possibility of a gender debate, haha. And I check everybody's profiles, so no prob there.

9/3/2011 #27
Mrs Pettyfer

I wish we had a female/male thingy written under our usernames. I'm always afraid I'll call someone the wrong gender. Which I've done..lmao. Whoooops.

9/3/2011 #28
Cadilus

I'm always afraid I'll call someone the wrong gender.

From the look of things, you can almost just assume everyone's female (excluding yours truly) and work on specifics from there.

Maybe we need an introductions thread, haha.

9/3/2011 #29
Mrs Pettyfer

Admitadly, I do assume almost everyone is female...lol. Well, I think you can tell by someones tone as well..even online. But if the username doesn't give it away (like mine) and the tone is up in the air I check the profile. :P

9/3/2011 #30
Page 1 2 Next »
Forum Moderators: LadyLore3 ScatterSunshine50, moaaa, TheLadyBlackhawk
Rules:
  • Forums are not to be used to post stories.
  • All forum posts must be suitable for teens.
  • The owner and moderators of this forum are solely responsible for the content posted within this area.
  • All forum abuse must be reported to the moderators.
Membership Length: 2+ years 1 year 6+ months 1 month 2+ weeks new member