Kataang or Zutara?
This argument has come up a lot, what are your opinions about Kataang and Zutara? Which pairing is more likely? Do you think they're age differences really matter? Everyone's invited! Keep it respectful, though.
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Amira Elizabeth

No you are right. First it is a cartoon. Second people have used this cartoon to hit below the belt. Third I am grouchy, but lovable. :)

I happen to take some insults seriously because I've experienced that and I don't think those words should be tossed around as a joke or used lightly. I don't care what the format is. The internet has become nothing more than a format for people to become anonymous d*** who don't take responsibility for what they type. Crap we wouldn't dream of saying in person, we easily say on the 'net because we can hide behind screen names and fake profiles. You don't know who you are talking to and because of that it's okay to call someone a p*** in a shipping argument. But the person you are calling that might be a victim of sexual violence. Besides if you resort to that, your argument isn't that great to begin with.

Honestly, I got no issue with the ship itself other than I personally don't like it or think it's attractive. Hell, I watch two or three Zutara communities myself.

OMG - I agree with you on Iroh, Proud. And some of what annoys you in fics.

9/3/2011 #61
chromeknickers

The paedophile term does not apply here. Both are underage; Katara is only two years older than Aang. Anyone slinging that barb is a moron.

9/3/2011 #62
Amira Elizabeth

Well, actually that term is used against both the ship and shippers.

9/3/2011 #63
Sun Kissed and Odin
Incognito I think the only reason some people would call another a p*** is because Aang is actually 112 years old. But Amira I get where you're coming from, people are jerks on the Internet. But at the same time when digging in toxic soil you need a tough shovel. Not you in particular, I mean anyone who may be touchy about certain things needs to where tough skin when participating in such debates. And yeah Iroh is literally the only character on the show didn't make me cringe not once. This is random but I kept separating my comments into paragraphs so they're easier to read but the Ipad just jumbles them together after I click submit if anyone found it hard to read my comments. I apologize for that.
9/3/2011 #64
chromeknickers

Well, actually that term is used against both the ship and shippers.

So Kataangers and Taangers are 'paedophiles' (since they're pubescent instead of prepubescent, it would technically be termed 'hebephilia') and the other pairings, fourteen and up, are ephebophiles? The interwebz is full of s-m-r-t people.

Incognito I think the only reason some people would call another a p*** is because Aang is actually 112 years old.

He's physically twelve. He was in suspended animation and never aged mentally or physically during those years encased in ice; therefore, the "theory" of him being a paedophile would still be considered fallacious.

9/3/2011 . Edited 9/3/2011 #65
Amira Elizabeth

No I get ya on the iPad thing. I was on mine the other day while getting IV treatment. Big walls of words and using the p/p was too tedious for me. LOL. Big ol' tube in my arm, I get lazy. And apparently really grumpy.

Oh my dear, I have been in this fandom since pretty much day one. I am usually a lot more thick-skinned. But it's kind of like if you kick a dog enough he's eventually going to bite you in the butt.

9/3/2011 #66
Sun Kissed and Odin
I get the dog reference, deep stuff dude.
9/3/2011 #67
Sun Kissed and Odin
Yes I know the story of ice encasement Incognito and I wasn't justifying anyone being called a p*** not saying you thought I was but I was just giving my personal thought. I've never even heard of this p*** name calling to be honest.
9/3/2011 #68
secretkp831

It's really weird to be honest how both sides seem to think it was the others who started it. I think for people who ship Kataang feel like people who ship Zutara are the ones who start all the name calling and vise versa for people who ship Zutara. I assume its because a lot of attacks happen on pages that are strictly for their OTP so no one really notices what happens outside of their little corner on the internet. Am I making sense?

9/8/2011 #69
Mrs Pettyfer

Well, people like to blame others and point fingers. Happens in many aspects of life, I've found. :P

9/8/2011 #70
Sun Kissed and Odin

I dont think its a matter of who started it, i think both shippers enter forums and discussions a bit on the defensive side naturally. that and some people misinterpret honesty for rudeness or automatically take offense to opinions opposing their own whether the poster was rude or not.

9/8/2011 #71
Fullmetal Catalyst

that and some people misinterpret honesty for rudeness or automatically take offense to opinions opposing their own whether the poster was rude or not.

This gal speaks the truth.

For almost every new shipper, the other side started it, because they're entering a war without realizing it even exists. Back in the day, who knows? Kataang had to fight for legitimacy, Zutara had to fight for legitimacy, and Taang laughed its collective arse off. It's almost a Greedo/Han Solo scenario except no one knows which ship is Greedo and which is Solo.

9/8/2011 #72
chromeknickers

Cadmos started the shipping war. :D

10/15/2011 #73
Fullmetal Catalyst

Rats, you found me out! And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for those meddling kids and their polar bear dog!

10/15/2011 #74
ImaRocketDog

I personally consider myself to be more of a Zutarian, but I really have no problem (or very few) with Kataang. Sure, it may be my personal preference for the series to have ended a little different, and I do feel that it could have lead in the direction of a Zuko/Katara pairing with minimal trouble, but I can clearly see the reasoning behind the canon Kataang ship. Aang had an obvious crush on her since the first episode, and even though it often got less obvious or pushed to the wayside at times, it was still present until the end, and I think we all would've felt like something would be wrong if that wasn't resolved. It almost bothers me though that until the 3rd season Katara showed few signs of returning Aang's romantic feelings, and in fact seemed more or less oblivious to them. She obviously cared about him deeply right from the start, but for a long time the exact nature of her feelings were ambiguous at best, and the development of her true romantic feelings for Aang felt almost thrown in there for the sake of tying up loose ends and ensuring that the hero and heroine both ended up happily together, because it just makes sense. In real life, unrequited love often does get rejected, feelings change, and young love is fickle, confusing, and frequently doesn't last forever. But this is rarely the case in the world of fiction, and done right, a fictional couple overcoming these real-life relationship roadblocks can work very well and is often in fact very sweet. Kataang doesn't do it wrong, and does manage to pull of a somewhat cliche relationship well, but I do think it could have been done better.

It works because there obviously is chemistry between Aang and Katara, and the audience is clearly meant to root for there innocent young love to work out for the best in the end. The result is sweet in a way, but for some, it simply wasn't as satisfying of a "main ship" as it should've been. For Zutarians, this is often where the argument in defense of our preferred fanon ship comes in. Yes, I do recognize the chemistry that exists between Aang and Katara, but I also recognize that there was sufficient chemistry between Katara and Zuko to potentially build a relationship from. Of course potential is all that was ever allowed to exist in the series, with the occasional ship-tease, but I like to think that a huge part of why fanfiction exists is for the fun of fans being able to explore the possibilities of a fandom, and this includes shipping characters that were technically never canon in the fandom. So I see no reason why canon-shippers and fanon-shippers alike should constantly spew hate at each other over this. Sure, I may have a preference for material based on Zutara romance, but that doesn't mean I don't respect Kataang or its fans. Likewise, I see no reason why Zutarians should be on the receiving end of hate either; after all, it's just a cartoon. As much as I hate to say it, sometimes we fans can get a little carried away :P

4/13/2012 #75
m8696

it simply wasn't as satisfying of a "main ship" as it should've been

It seems like Zutarians generally feel that a romance story should be about two characters at odds, with several barriers between them, told through a "will they/won't they" format. A lot of people find the opposite type of romance (a slower, subdued type, with two characters working together and growing close as friends) to be more satisfying. If anything, the weakest part of the Aang/Katara romance was when they added in the needless drama before the finale.

I see no reason why Zutarians should be on the receiving end of hate either

Because they thought their crackpairing was canon against all reason, and some of them still do. Tyzula shippers are often just as bad.

4/15/2012 #76
ImaRocketDog

Yeah, I see what you're getting at. This doesn't apply to me personally, but admittedly a lot of Zutarians often blur the line between canon and fanon and forget that in the series it simply didn't work out that way. Both characters seemed happy to end up with their respective love interests, and neither one of them even seemed inclined towards a romance with each other. I mean, in fanfiction and stuff it's easy to interpret characters' interactions between each other in multiple ways, but when these alternative interpretations get applied to the source material in a way that directly contradicts the intentions of the creator, that's where we run into problems. I prefer Zutara in fanon, but I respect canon.

As far as canon goes, I have no problem with the fact that Katara and Aang ended up together, and to me the pairing honestly makes sense. However, I do have a few issues with Maiko. I know a good many people love this ship so I don't want to offend anyone, but this was the only relationship in the series that I honestly was never happy with. Their relationship is definitely lacking something, there doesn't seem to be any real passion or a real deep, meaningful bond between then. It's obvious Mai had a crush on him when they were young, but we don't get much of that on Zuko's part. They strike me as the kind of couple that would've came to be because a girl was happy her longtime crush had finally noticed her, and the guy was in a very troubled place and needed some comfort, plus that girl who had a crush on him was suddenly all attractive. Zuko was obviously conflicted over what he had done in Ba Sing Se, and Mai was the only one who really didn't care whatsoever about it. But it seems to me that two people with their personalities and the way they act with each other, the novelty would wear off quickly, boredom would set in, boredom would cause tension, leading to irrational behavior and fights, and they'd be one of those on-again off-again couples. This is exactly the sort of thing that happened in the Beach episode; for a moment it had me believing that they had actually broken up for good (which I was secretly hoping for), but when the got back together like an hour later I felt like I should have predicted that. But the ease at which they made up and the sudden lovey-doveyness of the moment seemed kinda ooc to me, but that's just my opinion. Anyway, for most of the early 3rd season Mai and Zuko had me believing their relationship was the might-as-well-be-together, summer-love, not-meant-to-last type, and then all of a sudden they LOVE each other, enough for Mai to defy Azula and "save the j*** who dumped her" at the Boiling Rock. Although once again I should've predicted this, since in TV world (especially kids tv world), young love and troubled relationships always tend to work in the long run, even if in real life that often doesn't happen with either.

So yeah, maybe all that Maiko stuff was a bit off-topic, but I meant to explain it in my earlier post but didn't have time. But anyway... yeah, it annoys me too when some Zutarians let wishful thinking go so far they start to believe it was legitimately canon, but I personally don't see it as a crackship so much. This is just my opinion (biased I guess, since I ship Zutara lol), but i feel that their canon relationship already has enough depth, a (strictly fanon) romance between them is fairly plausible and not without some reasoning behind it, and it has been shipped too often for too long for it to really deserve to be called a "crack" ship. Tyzula... yeah, that's more... cracky, I guess you could say. I mean, I guess I could see that happening, but it's probably one of the least realistic of couples that are commonly shipped in fanfiction.

4/15/2012 . Edited 4/15/2012 #77
ALC23

I think a lot of people in general have that type of thinking: my way is the best way. The Dalai Lama said it best- Yearn to understand then yearn to be understood.

Personally I ship Zutara but I have no problem with Kataang since it's cannon. Do I read Kataang? Nope. Do I bash Kataang? Not really. And especially not online. Whenever you post anything controversial on the web such as opinions for starters. It can always spark arguments. Text takes things out of context.

I think the hatred and frustration comes from ignorance which could be solved by acceptance. You don't like either ship? Don't read it. And certaintly don't go out of your way to bash it. It's the same answer it's always been: accept and tolerate.

6/12/2012 #78
Minami-Sui
Personally I've never experienced a ship war, but I've seen many insults thrown at Zutara from Kataangers and vice-versa. No, I've never bashed any ships, I think that bashing the ships is just silly. Also, some Kataangers are more than happy to stand up for their ship. Ship wars are for people who don't have anything better to do than constantly bash another person's opinion. To be honest, most Zutara stories I've read are actually really good!! So good on you, all you Zutara shippers!! Some Kataang stories don't put the character across so well...
6/17/2012 #79
ALC23

Wow, I couldn't agree more.

I've never experienced a ship war either. I think they're completely silly. There's no point in arguing over fictional characters.

I can't say which is better... I've never read a Kataang fanfic. I don't really read fanfic I'd rather write it. Also some places where I read fanfic it has been explicit so I cut out reading fanfic completely. Explicit material is weird when the original material is designated for a younger audience. I don't really enjoy it anymore. Some characters lose their personalities in fanfic. However I do still like fanart.

6/17/2012 #80
Uitori

First let me say that I am a triple-e geeek and tend to know my fandoms canonically and non-canonically in and out. But I never knew that there was a shipping war this intense in the Avatar fandom. It all burns down to differences in opinion and a failure of tolerance. On the internet you can find a million people that agree with you and people are more bold in numbers thus the maliciousness ensues. I love Avatar (brewing up two fics for it) but not enough to go as intensely as I have seen some arguments the armadas (I feel ship is an understatement at this point). You can pull either ship (Zutara or Kataang) from the show at some point so I don't find either one to be "crack"potish but it ended with Kataang. And I'm cool with that. It's not my creation so I won't bash it but I do think it could have been better? Sure. I don't read Kataang shippers; the show ended with Kataang and I just don't feel it's going to get any better or more interesting than that, so I primarily read non-Kataang shippers because that's usually where the interesting stuff is (please reccomend if you feel I'm wrong). Not to say that there are some subpar Zutara fics out there (or period) but still....

In short there is no logical reason why people can't get along in spite of personal preferences/differing opinions. Those that can't are children that need to grow up. Let's put on our big boy pants and big girl shoes.

Uitori.

7/23/2012 #81
The Cretin

Uh....hello....is this working?

Came here to take a break from punchin a goblin. Anyways, I think one of the main reasons is that people just love to fight and argue. That's just the way it is. Some will never relent.

I'm a Kataanger btw. Nothin but love for Zutarans who don't want to fight.

7/23/2012 #82
ALC23

Absolutely agreed. People just want something to 'fight for or against.' I have no problem with people who ship differently. It's a cartoon for pete's sake. If someone is reading something they don't like, why continue reading? Or bash others' work? That is not cool. Let people ship what they want.

7/23/2012 #83
ALC23

I knew somewhat about it. But never kept the argument going. people try to start in with me how zutara isn't canon. But I don't play into that. I like to write what I like to read. I'm not going to argue with someone over the internet about a cartoon. That's silly. People need to stop arguing and respect others' choices.

7/23/2012 #84
The Cretin

Yeah really they do. I admit that I don't read Zutaran fics. I admit that I don't read alot of fics if they contain ships I don't support. Not that I'm trying to be a pr*** but its because to me that's the best way to respect their choice and not misstep into conflict.

I once suggested a website be created. One solely for shipping. Divided into sectors. Similiar to FF.net but for ships. Just scroll down there and find your ship. There would places for shippers to reside in peace. Kataangers would get their own sector. Zutarans would get their own sector. BBRaeners would get their own sector, BBTerras, Buffy/Angels, Buffy/Spikes etc, etc. It'd be called "The Shipyard". They could hang out with their fellow shippers 24/7. There would be forums for the ships themselves and forums for discussing ships with fans of other ships.

There would be a Floating Galleria for fan art. The Signal Ship for news. The Lighthouse for help and directions. The whole kaboodle.

Now of course, there would be conflict arise and when that happens site rules state that the aggressive parties take it to the "WarZone". This is automatic. Refusal to abide will result in being thrown overboard aka banned from your sector. There the two opposing parties must engage in a GAME OF ONLINE BATTLESHIP FOR THEIR SECTOR'S AMUSEMENT. I'm serious. The whole D4-F9-A1 kaboodle. Winners return to their sectors. Losers are banned from the site for 24 hours. It'll curb flamewars on the site and keep aggressive parties occupied and out of the intelligent discussions......(8D

7/23/2012 #85
ALC23

Seriously that would be a great way for shippers to take out aggression & make it non personal. Now we need a programmer & webmaster. lol Time to patent some s***.

7/24/2012 #86
dayties

It wouldn't be a problem to make that. In fact, I've come around quite a few areas where it's a certain ship only. But humans are humans and they're going to look for the attention and they're going to start another war. It always happens :/

7/24/2012 #87
The Cretin

AHOY MATIES.....

@ALC23: YOU TRYIN TO STEAL MY IDEA!? )8)...D#)...THAT HURTS!!!!.....XD....LOL

Truthfully, one of the factors is that the setting starts these fights. The show's been over for 4 years if I'm not mistaken and people still just blare right into flaming. Its time to sign a peace treaty. Its time to heal. Avatar has had one of the most divided fanbases I've ever seen. I care about all the fans and I care about the show. I'm tired of seeing such loyalty divided.

Btw, don't let my name fool ya. I can be a nice guy. :)

7/24/2012 #88
dayties

The show's been over for 4 years if I'm not mistaken and people still just blare right into flaming

Meh. We just have a large fanbase, most of which were children/pre-teens and are now teenagers/adults. And it's not necessarily flaming. If the people are genuinely calm and/or kind-natured (or at least decent people in general, as you may see in this forum), then the anger (note how I don't use the word flaming) only starts when one out-of-hand shipper blows a fuse.

Avatar has had one of the most divided fanbases I've ever seen.

Same concept. A lot of people aren't necessarily divided (I'm friends with a lot of people who don't ship my favourite pairings, as they're far from canon), it's just that there are a lot of people with provoking attitudes. I've never really seen divided. A lot of people are "co-existing" because a lot of people just don't care. We ship what we ship, but I've never actually seen someone not talk to a calm and reasonable person if they ship a pairing that is not their own.

7/24/2012 #89
The Cretin

Alrighty. For my part, I've looked at Zutara and I can see it being a romance but not one that would last. Simply, I think the flame would burn out. Though it would be intense while it lasted.

I married a childhood friend..... I know that those romances can work. It's one of the factors I think that leans me more towards Kataang.

I apologize for any poor word choices. Its been awhile since I've talked to Avatar fans (Some of the best discussionist I've ever met no matter what flag they sail under) and I'm a little rusty. I went into self-imposed exile from the fandom a few years ago.

Good points Ivy :)

7/24/2012 #90
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