Kataang or Zutara?
This argument has come up a lot, what are your opinions about Kataang and Zutara? Which pairing is more likely? Do you think they're age differences really matter? Everyone's invited! Keep it respectful, though.
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SaturdayRain

As we all know, Katara and Aang ended up together at the end of the series. For all you Kataangers out there, I do understand why Kataang was cannon, because it was full of care and support and understanding. However, I have my own opinions, and I ask you to respect them, since I respect yours.

Now. Down to business.

I personally think Aang and Toph should've been together- they're the same age (12-13), and they seem to be able to handle each other. Their dynamic is so much fun, and I think, if they were older, there would be a lot of chemistry there. Toph could teach Aang to assert himself and get what he wants, while Aang could teach Toph not to be so stubborn and independent, and let people in. They would both bring a lot to the relationship.

Concerning Katara: As we found out in Season One (and Avatar Extras), Katara likes bad boys. She fell for Jet almost instantly, swept away by his passion and charisma. And while Aang has both of those, he approaches them in a very different way. When you are twelve and fourteen, that age gap is very wide. Aang is very immature compared to Katara- Katara needs someone more on her own level. I propose Zuko. He is firey and hot-tempered, just like Katara, though they (like the forementioned couple) go about it in different ways. As I mentioned before with Toph and Aang, they could both bring great things to the relationship. Katara's a healer- she could heal Zuko's scars, both emotionally and physically. Zuko could fufill Katara's passion in a way that Aang could not. I don't mean to get so wrapped up in these fictional character's love lives, because they are, afterall, fictional, but I do harbor strong feelings about this.

Aang has shown on many levels that he is not ready for Katara- he stole the map of her father's location, for instance, so she wouldn't leave, a very immature and selfish thing to do. That has always bothered me.

Zuko and Katara would, of course, fight all the time- they are too much alike. But that is how real relationships work- you fight and forgive, and are stronger for it. Aang and Katara's relationship would always be peaceful, since Aang is a pacifist, and I think that would put a lot of strain on Katara. She wouldn't want to hurt Aang's feelings even though he would drive her up the wall.

I think Zuko and Katara would be able to handle each other. The chemisty is undeniable, and they have such similar experiences- they'd be able to relate very well, as shown in The Crossroads of Destiny.

So, to wrap it all up, I think the creators should've thrown Aang and Toph together, for age, attitude, temperment and personality reasons, while Zuko and Katara should've been canon, for passion, age, and similarity reasons.

Feel free to disagree, but please, no flames. All the Kataangers have already won- let the Zutarians believe, since we all know how it ends anyways. Thank you!

3/4/2012 #1
Amira Elizabeth

I personally think Aang and Toph should've been together- they're the same age (12-13), and they seem to be able to handle each other. Their dynamic is so much fun, and I think, if they were older, there would be a lot of chemistry there. Toph could teach Aang to assert himself and get what he wants, while Aang could teach Toph not to be so stubborn and independent, and let people in. They would both bring a lot to the relationship.

And they had the romantic chemistry of cold cereal. Toph was not the girl Aang wanted. And he was not the guy she wanted. They had zero chemistry in the romance department. People have this stupid idea that Aang can't assert himself and he does. He stands up to his friends about killing the FIRELORD, stands up to Katara over seeking revenge, etc. And he is capable of getting what he wants.

Concerning Katara: As we found out in Season One (and Avatar Extras), Katara likes bad boys. She fell for Jet almost instantly, swept away by his passion and charisma.

Actually she liked Jet when she thought he was good. Once she knew of his true colors she dropped him like a hot potato. It's not badness she is attracted to, but ideals. Helping others, justice, righting wrongs, etc. And that is what she thought Jet stood for. But she was wrong.

And while Aang has both of those, he approaches them in a very different way.

No, he is actually similar to Katara in many ways. He is passionate about righting wrongs, helping others, etc. and does it in a way that is to be admired and doesn't constitute as revenge.

When you are twelve and fourteen, that age gap is very wide. Aang is very immature compared to Katara- Katara needs someone more on her own level.

And what level is that? Romantically Aang and Katara are pretty much on the same level. She is a girl with little to no romantic experience. One of the many things Aang has going for him in that department is his self-confidence, his openness to love, and the fact that he is head over heals for her. And he is thinking about romance. He is interested in romance. He wants to kiss and be physically affectionate, talk about feelings, and the future.

I propose Zuko.

Ah yes, probably one of the most immature characters on the show. His answer to not getting his way or hearing what he wanted was to yell, be ungrateful, mock, and be verbally abusive. Or hire a hit man to kill a 12 year old boy. Or throws fire at a girl who was trying to help his uncle.

He is firey and hot-tempered, just like Katara, though they (like the forementioned couple) go about it in different ways. As I mentioned before with Toph and Aang, they could both bring great things to the relationship. Katara's a healer- she could heal Zuko's scars, both emotionally and physically.

And that is not her job. It isn't her role to heal poor widdle Zuko. It is Zuko's job to heal himself. She doesn't need to be his therapist. How awful and stifling for her.

Zuko could fufill Katara's passion in a way that Aang could not.

Um...Aang and Katara are both passionate about their bending, helping others, saving the world, healing the world, etc. And most importantly they are passionate about each other and their relationship.

Aang has shown on many levels that he is not ready for Katara- he stole the map of her father's location, for instance, so she wouldn't leave, a very immature and selfish thing to do. That has always bothered me.

Uh, yes...blame Aang for something that he did in the first season and felt horribly about, owned up to, and accepted the consequences of. Katara and Sokka were not innocents in that situation either. Neither made him feel welcome with Bato. They actively excluded him that night. And Katara especially after hearing about how Aang was excluded and shunned by his friends in The Storm should have known better. Was Aang wrong, yes. But he doesn't deserve such condemnation.

Zuko and Katara would, of course, fight all the time- they are too much alike. But that is how real relationships work- you fight and forgive, and are stronger for it. Aang and Katara's relationship would always be peaceful, since Aang is a pacifist, and I think that would put a lot of strain on Katara. She wouldn't want to hurt Aang's feelings even though he would drive her up the wall.

Uh, no. Katara and Aang are friends, they care about and love each other. And they do yell at each other. They have said and done hurtful things. And they forgive and forget and their bond is that much more stronger. The series showed that. Relationships with constant emotional drama are mentally, emotionally, and even physically exhausting. And there is a trust factor. I don't see Katara having the level of trust required to be romantically intimate (and I don't mean just physically, but emotionally and spiritually as well) with Zuko. You might forgive someone for betraying you, but you are not going to forget that in part because of that person someone you love very much nearly died and you had to heal them for weeks. Katara shared how much her mother's loss affected her and what does Zuko do - makes a selfish decision, hurts and betrays his uncle, and helps his sister to kill Aang. Thus taking away someone else Katara loves and exposing her to that devastation again.

You don't forget that. She is not going to forget that. Especially when Zuko's next action towards Aang was to selfishly hire a hit man to assassinate him.

I think Zuko and Katara would be able to handle each other. The chemisty is undeniable, and they have such similar experiences- they'd be able to relate very well, as shown in The Crossroads of Destiny.

And that whole exchange was blown out of the water by Zuko's selfishness and thoughtlessness. Actually, their romamtic chemistry is deniable. They have none. They are at best - friends. Katara always seems like the sister Zuko should have had. She's even the same age as Azula.

So, to wrap it all up, I think the creators should've thrown Aang and Toph together, for age, attitude, temperment and personality reasons, while Zuko and Katara should've been canon, for passion, age, and similarity reasons.And thankfully the creators didn't.

3/4/2012 #2
SaturdayRain

"And they had the romantic chemistry of cold cereal. Toph was not the girl Aang wanted. And he was not the guy she wanted. They had zero chemistry in the romance department."

Ahhh, yes. But: if the creators had written them together from the beginning, there could've been chemistry.

"Actually she liked Jet when she thought he was good. Once she knew of his true colors she dropped him like a hot potato. It's not badness she is attracted to, but ideals. Helping others, justice, righting wrongs, etc. "

Right. I said bad boys, not evil boys. She was attracted to Jet because of his ideals, and because he was a rebel. But once she realized he was evil, she dumped him. Zuko is not evil, but he is bad.

"No, he is actually similar to Katara in many ways. "

I was comparing Aang to Jet.

" And what level is that? "

I don't know how old you are, but when I was fourteen, twelve year olds seemed to be a whole different species. I would've never considered one as a potential romantic partner, even if I travelled the world with them. It'd always be either sisterly love, or motherly love.

And he is thinking about romance. He is interested in romance. He wants to kiss and be physically affectionate, talk about feelings, and the future.

Your thinking canon, too set in stone. Zutara is all in the 'could's' and the 'what if's'. We can't say Zuko wouldn't have been like that with Katara, since they weren't a canon couple in the show. But it's a possibility that he could've been, if they were in a relationship.

Ah yes, probably one of the most immature characters on the show. His answer to not getting his way or hearing what he wanted was to yell, be ungrateful, mock, and be verbally abusive.

But he grows. By season three, he is wise and calm, like Iroh, and completely steady in who he is.

She doesn't need to be his therapist. How awful and stifling for her.

Katara LOVES to heal- Haru, Jet, even Aang. If they were in a relationship, she would've been able to help him. Not all the time, not like a constant job, but she would've helped him heal. Think about how awful it would be for her to be with someone who cried (Aang has cried on a number of occasions over something Katara said) and got their feelings hurt over every little thing.

Um...Aang and Katara are both passionate about their bending, helping others, saving the world, healing the world, etc. And most importantly they are passionate about each other and their relationship.

Aang is all about light and peace- Katara has a dark side, and Zuko would be able to help that and understand it in a way Aang wouldn't be able to.

Was Aang wrong, yes. But he doesn't deserve such condemnation.

It showed a lot about his character- you're right, he did own up to it. But whose to say he wouldn't do something like it again in the future, to make Katara stay with him?

I don't see Katara having the level of trust required to be romantically intimate (and I don't mean just physically, but emotionally and spiritually as well) with Zuko.

But by the season finale, Zuko and Katara trust each other enough to fight for each other- and Zuko trusts her enough to take lightening for her, and enough for her to continue the fight after. And Katara trusts him to protect her from Azula as the duel, which he does.

Actually, their romamtic chemistry is deniable. They have none.

You don't see it because you aren't looking for it. You are approaching Zutara with a closed mind: 'No, it's not there, I refuse to see it.' If you were a Zutarian, and you loved the idea of Zuko and Katara together, you would be able to see it. You need to have an open mind and an open heart when dealing with Zutara, because it's all mindset.

And, like I said, Kataang already won. They are together- so why go to such lengths to disprove others when your shipping already won? And, yes, that makes me a bit of a hyprocrite because I'm attacking yours despite the fact Aang and Katara end up together, but Zutarians are grasping at what they can to keep their dream alive. And with that, I retire.

3/4/2012 . Edited 3/4/2012 #3
Amira Elizabeth

Oh my dear, please do not think me close minded because I refuse to acknowledge any potential for Zutara. I have looked at, researched, and been an active member of this fandom for years. Zutara has come at me from so many different directions. Arguments, cajoling, you name in on the subject. And you know what. I still don't see it. I don't think, based on the characters as we saw, that there is any romantic chance for Zutara. Because they get all they need from being friends. Zuko is duly rewarded for his redemption and Katara makes a new friend with a misunderstood enemy. Zuko gets a sister-replacement for Azula. But if you see more in it, then more power to you.

The funny thing is, I rarely (and I can only count one hand) know of really any time I've ever seen a Zutarian really try to understand the canon relationships. I mean if you cannot understand and grasp what Katara sees in a guy she was friends with and grew to love, then how can you make a good case for her to be in a romance with a guy who hunted her, hurt her loved ones, and who she barely tolerated until the very end of the show. Katara and Aang's relationship is part of their characters, and you have to understand it in part to understand them.

It showed a lot about his character- you're right, he did own up to it. But whose to say he wouldn't do something like it again in the future, to make Katara stay with him?

And whose to say Zuko wouldn't hire a hit man to assassinate someone else who got in the way or whose to say he wouldn't mock Katara's culture when she says something he doesn't like (like he did to Aang in TSR). This vilifying and holding things against Aang while giving a Zuko a free pass seems to be a common thing for you folks, isn't it.

Think about how awful it would be for her to be with someone who cried (Aang has cried on a number of occasions over something Katara said) and got their feelings hurt over every little thing.

Actually, sensitivity and not being afraid of his emotions is something that is positive about Aang. And I honestly cannot remember a time when he cried over something she said. He got upset (like in the Waterbending Scroll when she was being a complete a-hole to him). And I don't recall him getting his feelings hurt over every little thing. Again, this I fear is you assigning traits or blowing incidences out of proportion.

For the record...

NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU SHIP! If you ship Zuko and the Cabbages, no one cares. It's not the ship. No one cares what you ship.

What people do care about is how you attempt to justify or explain your ship. If your entire argument is based on a poor grasp of characterization, then people are going to have a problem. If your entire argument is based not on the good things about your ship but what you hate about the rival ship or a rival character, people are going to have a problem. If your argument is based on hypocrisy and double standards, then people are going to have a problem. If your argument is based on using hot-button words like "misogyny" and "P***", then people are going to have a problem (especially when it is unfounded). If your entire argument is based on things that never happened in canon or have evidence to the contrary in canon, then people are going to have a problem. If your entire argument is based on glorifying one character and assigning traits that the character does not possess in order to discredit a rival character, then people are going to have a problem. Trust me, people do not care what you ship. If you like it and you think it is the greatest thing since sliced bread, more power to ya. But don't do any of the above and think that it's all because of what you ship. I mean, yeah, people don't like certain ships - but most people would be more than happy to let Zutarians ship their little ship in peace if they didn't subject the fandom to arguments like the above.

And if it is harsh, well, not much I can say to that except that just enjoy your ship. Enjoy for the good things it means to you. Why some Zutarians feel the need to come on boards like these and rip rival characters to shreds with their poor interpretations of characterization and excessive Zuko-worship and then fuss that other people are "closed-minded" is just bizarre to me.

3/4/2012 . Edited 3/4/2012 #4
Odekake

There is just something about a good debate that I cannot pass up ... and yet, I have a midterm tomorrow that I must study for, so my points will be very quick and not very detailed for the moment. Besides, Amira hit most of what I wanted to say anyway. But ... there are a few things I want to add on.

"I personally think Aang and Toph should've been together- they're the same age (12-13)"

I know that this wasn't the entirety of your Aang/Toph proposal, but please ... do NOT use "the same age" as a serious argument. Especially when all the main characters are no more than 4 years apart from each other. So Aang and Toph are both the same age. So ... why should I care? My parents have a bigger age gap between them than Aang and Katara do. Personally, I have a bigger problem with 17-year-olds dating 24-year-olds ... but there are quite a few girls who find that older guy "desirable". 12-year-old boy and 14-year-old girl don't bother me, especially when the boy is as innocent and pure as Aang.

"Katara's a healer- she could heal Zuko's scars, both emotionally and physically."

This is ... quite insulting. Oh, Katara's a healer so she should be Zuko's healer? No, and no. Her healing is a gift, but sticking her in the position of healer is quite insulting. And making her "Zuko's healer" makes her an object. She is just this ... thing, that's here to heal poor little Zuko's scars. In case you don't remember from season 1, after they got to the north pole, Katara yelled at Pakku: "I don't want to heal. I want to fight!"

"Aang and Katara's relationship would always be peaceful, since Aang is a pacifist, and I think that would put a lot of strain on Katara."

What. Just ... what. What is wrong with a peaceful relationship? Isn't that what we all want -- a peaceful, stable relationship? WHY would a peaceful relationship put a strain on Katara. What's wrong with being a pacifist anyway? If everyone in the world was a pacifist, most of the world's problems would not exist. Just ... stupid statements like this hit my berserk button.

"Aang has shown on many levels that he is not ready for Katara- he stole the map of her father's location, for instance, so she wouldn't leave, a very immature and selfish thing to do. That has always bothered me."

And Katara has proved herself to be some innocent paragon of maturity or something? Don't you remember how irrational and cruel she was to Aang and Sokka in "The Southern Raiders"? She accused Sokka of not loving their mother, for crying out loud, and she didn't even apologize on-screen. Aang stealing the scroll was inexcusable, don't get me wrong, but as Amira pointed out ... Katara and Sokka were rather ignoring Aang and making him feel cut out. And this was season ONE, whereas Katara lashing out at Sokka and Aang in "TSR" was in season THREE, the second to last episode before the finale. And are you saying that Zuko's various stupid mistakes (causing the Gaang's defeat at Ba Sing Se, hiring an assassin to kill Aang) is forgivable while Aang's SEASON ONE mistake bothers you?

"I don't know how old you are, but when I was fourteen, twelve year olds seemed to be a whole different species. I would've never considered one as a potential romantic partner, even if I travelled the world with them. It'd always be either sisterly love, or motherly love."

And this is the crux of the argument. KATARA IS NOT YOU. THIS IS NOT A STORY ABOUT YOU. Stop trying to put Katara with Zuko because YOU are not comfortable with seeing her with Aang because Aang is twelve years old. Besides, AtLA does not take place in our world. In AtLA, it seems perfectly acceptable for young people to be engaged and to marry early. It's a different culture than what we live in now. And even then, in some parts of the world, it is perfectly normal to marry twelve year old girls to men OLD ENOUGH TO BE THEIR GRANDFATHERS. Don't put yourself in Katara's shoes. Don't see AtLA from the standpoint of our world. BECAUSE IT DOESN'T WORK.

If you want to like Zutara, that's fine. But when you start holding Aang accountable for things and giving everyone else a pass for behavior that is just as bad or even worse ... when you start saying "but Aang is twelve years old" or "Aang doesn't understand her" and other untrue statements, you're going to make people rise up. You like Zutara, that's fine. But your reasons are flawed, and just plain biased.

3/7/2012 #5
Narwhalphonse

"This is ... quite insulting. Oh, Katara's a healer so she should be Zuko's healer? No, and no. Her healing is a gift, but sticking her in the position of healer is quite insulting. And making her "Zuko's healer" makes her an object. She is just this ... thing, that's here to heal poor little Zuko's scars."

This whole healing business gets brought up a lot in several different ways. I know it's not what you guys are saying here, but some people think it's insulting to portray Katara as a healer since she is a girl, like it's anti-feminist or something. But if that's what she wants to do, if she enjoys it, who is anyone else to say that that mysogynistic or sexist? Feminism is about women not being told that they can't do something. If you tell a woman she can't focus on her family instead of a career, you aren't empowering her. You are simply reassigning the slot in which she must fit.

Besides that, I don't think 'healing' is quite the right word for what Katara would do for Zuko, should they ever be romantically involved. I think it's more like, when Zuko is upset about his mother or stressing about postwar conflicts, Katara would be able to comfort him and cheer him up with her optimism. You want a partner who makes you feel loved and safe when you are emotionally perturbed. Zuko would be devoted to her as well, were they together. He doesn't do things half-heartedly. Everything he does, he does with determination (a.k.a. stubborness) and passion.

So, anyway. That's my two cents on the matter.

3/8/2012 #6
Fullmetal Catalyst

You don't see it because you aren't looking for it. You are approaching Zutara with a closed mind: 'No, it's not there, I refuse to see it.' If you were a Zutarian, and you loved the idea of Zuko and Katara together, you would be able to see it. You need to have an open mind and an open heart when dealing with Zutara, because it's all mindset.

Mindset toward the canon, or mindset toward the character types? Because we can approach the show with whatever mindset we want, and from a story perspective it doesn't make a lick of difference -- certain characters are compatible, and that's that. However, from a character-type perspective it makes a huge difference. Some people love the idea of the tortured, conflicted soul with the noble, dark-past healer, while others leap at the symbiotic nurturing of the idealist and the romantic. Others love the idea of opposites attracting while still others are all for complements attracting. I can't imagine there being a problem with this.

I don't disagree with much of what you say in this quoted paragraph. Do understand, however, that when you start using canon to support your opinions, you suddenly subject yourself to canon interpretation and restrictions. That's not always a bad thing by any means: you could use the canon to say, "look, Katara wanted to heal Zuko's scar, she's shown that she sympathizes with him and wants to heal him". But it can definitely backfire: you could use the canon to say, "Aang could do something like the map incident to keep Katara with him". This doesn't account that: a) Aang learned from it and grew as a character, b) Aang's plan backfired horribly, c) Katara had only just been introduced to Aang's romantic potential and she still didn't seem too enthused about leaving him despite the apparent trust betrayal, and d) I can't imagine how Aang might end up in a situation like that regarding his romance with Katara.

You say that Katara could heal Zuko's scars, that Zuko could fulfill her passion, that they could bring great things to a relationship. That's good stuff right there. Bringing Aang/Kataang in invites Kataangers to disagree with you, and bringing up canon can have the effect of giving them ammunition. Now, if you want to talk about why the canon's messed up, that would be a different discussion, methinks.

And, like I said, Kataang already won. They are together- so why go to such lengths to disprove others when your shipping already won? And, yes, that makes me a bit of a hyprocrite because I'm attacking yours despite the fact Aang and Katara end up together, but Zutarians are grasping at what they can to keep their dream alive. And with that, I retire.

I sometimes wonder if Kataang did indeed win. After all, what was the shipping war? There was no sense of a love triangle within the canon -- apart from Jet, Katara never really looked at anyone other than Aang, and Aang's interest was pretty clear throughout. And it's hard to win a competition that doesn't exist, at least in theory. Therefore, the war was within and between the shipping fandoms themselves...and I'm not sure many Kataangers would actually claim victory if we use those conditions. Shipping wars seem to me as un-winnable as they are unavoidable.

What exactly is the Zutaran dream? I'm curious because, Saturday, look at your post. In three separate instances you put forth claims/arguments that are distinctly anti-Kataang -- they're not anti-Kataang because they support Zutara, they're anti-Kataang because they're anti-Kataang. It is 150% possible to put together a Zutara argument without even referencing Aang (I've done it on this very forum, and I don't even ship Zutara) using the conditions you've specified (opinion, rather than canon interpretation), but you don't do so. Is the Zutaran dream to put Zuko and Katara together -- or to put them together in such a way that proves it was the way the show should've ended? Your title says the latter, your post kind of says both.

Besides that, I don't think 'healing' is quite the right word for what Katara would do for Zuko, should they ever be romantically involved. I think it's more like, when Zuko is upset about his mother or stressing about postwar conflicts, Katara would be able to comfort him and cheer him up with her optimism. You want a partner who makes you feel loved and safe when you are emotionally perturbed. Zuko would be devoted to her as well, were they together. He doesn't do things half-heartedly. Everything he does, he does with determination (a.k.a. stubborness) and passion.

Just so. This is what I mean about mindsets, because one could argue that Mai would be better, keeping Zuko grounded with her cool-headed emotional clarity. Another might argue that Ty Lee's bubbly personality with her attunement to auras would suit her in a relationship with Zuko. A third could make the argument that Toph's toughness would strengthen Zuko while her underlying tenderness would keep them comfortable. All three could argue that Zuko brings things in return. Which is more valid? Some have more basis in canon than others, this is true, but if we're really just talking about abstract pairings (that is, ships) then what's the big deal? Long story short, I agree with you.

But when canon is involved, we see that of those four only Maiko has strong grounding. Mindsets don't matter as much when there's unambiguous information, i.e. canon.

3/8/2012 #7
Odekake

"This whole healing business gets brought up a lot in several different ways. I know it's not what you guys are saying here, but some people think it's insulting to portray Katara as a healer since she is a girl, like it's anti-feminist or something. But if that's what she wants to do, if she enjoys it, who is anyone else to say that that mysogynistic or sexist? Feminism is about women not being told that they can't do something. If you tell a woman she can't focus on her family instead of a career, you aren't empowering her. You are simply reassigning the slot in which she must fit."

I'm not saying that being a healer makes her weak, or that she must be a strong feminist fighter or stuff. It's not insulting to portray Katara as a healer. It is, however, insulting to portray her as ZUKO'S HEALER. Katara does seem to enjoy healing to a degree, yes, but don't forget that she wants to FIGHT more than she wants to HEAL. SHE SAID SO HERSELF. Besides, I'm not even talking about her physical healing. A lot of Zutarians want Katara to be Zuko's therapist and solve all of his problems. You guys say that she's a healer, therefore she will be able to heal all of Zuko's mental scars. No. Just ... no. I don't hear Kataangers arguing that Aang and Katara should be together because she's a healer and she can heal his mental scars. They support each other. She is there when he needs her, and he is there when she needs her. It is Zutarians who want Katara to be Zuko's healer who are "simply reassigning the slot in which she must fit." I have no problem with her being a healer. I have a problem with Zutarians making her Zuko's personal therapist and expecting her to solve all of his problems. Zuko needs to solve his own problems, with the advice of others. He doesn't need Katara (or anyone else) to solve them FOR him. And what bothers me is when people say that Katara can heal Zuko because she's a healer, but then turn around and portray Aang as some needy little child and "not right" for Katara because she comforts him so much. You can't have it both ways without looking like a hypocrite. Is Zuko a needy little boy for needing Katara's healing? Or is Aang a strong character in his own right who needs support every now and then?

3/10/2012 #8
Mrs Pettyfer

It's also insulting to Zuko for Katara to "heal him" and solve everything. One of the reasons I love him so much is because he heals himself. None of that annoing "I changed my ways for a girl" kind of thing. He finds himself FOR himself. As Iroh says: "I was sad, because I was afraid you'd lost your way. But you found it again. And you did it by yourself."

And I can't personally imagine Zuko allowing Katara--or anyone--to solve all his problems. I've always been under the impression Zuko feels like he's alone in the world, so he tries to take it on by himself. I don't think he feels alone now, since he actually has friends and his uncle, but it just seems too contrasting to his nature to let someone "heal him mentally" and all that jazz.

3/10/2012 . Edited 3/10/2012 #9
Narwhalphonse

Making Katara Zuko's therapist doesn't necessarily have to be insulting. What if Katara went into counseling after the war, and Zuko decided he needed therapy? If they aren't romantically linked and it doesn't put undue burden on her shoulders, why is that insulting?

I don't know how other Zutarians feel about Katara "healing Zuko's mental wounds," because I am not them. I stated how I feel about it. It wouldn't be healing per se as much as comforting when he is down in the dumps. I.e.: it's around the time of year Ursa left, and Zuko still has not found her. He becomes mopey and upset. Katara would be there to give him a hug, tell him she knows what he's going through, reassure him it'll be okay, and tell him to come outside and spar with her. Or even if the situation were reversed, with Katara being gloomy about her mom or some other such topic, Zuko might offer some understanding and comfort as well. Is this being an emotional healer? Maybe. Is this what someone should do for their partner when they are distraught, for good reason? Yes.

"Katara does seem to enjoy healing to a degree, yes, but don't forget that she wants to FIGHT more than she wants to HEAL. SHE SAID SO HERSELF."

She wanted to fight because someone told her no. And I'm talking about emotional healing, too. No need to get all up in arms. She enjoyed helping Toph heal emotionally during The Runaway. She looked pretty content to comfort Zuko when he wasn't sure about his confrontation with Iroh. She was concerned about making Aang feel better when he was so upset about hurting her. She wanted to help Sokka when he was upset about being the only non-bender in the group. I'm not saying she'd want to take it on as a full-time job, but she does clearly enjoy helping people emotionally as well as physically, and I don't think she's the type of person to run from a partner who has a few emotional weeds in his pond.

"I don't hear Kataangers arguing that Aang and Katara should be together because she's a healer and she can heal his mental scars. They support each other. She is there when he needs her, and he is there when she needs her."

Super. Good for them. Kataangers don't argue the same things Zutarians do because Aang and Zuko are not the same, despite the many parallels between them.

"And what bothers me is when people say that Katara can heal Zuko because she's a healer, but then turn around and portray Aang as some needy little child and "not right" for Katara because she comforts him so much. You can't have it both ways without looking like a hypocrite. Is Zuko a needy little boy for needing Katara's healing? Or is Aang a strong character in his own right who needs support every now and then?"

I was trying really hard to leave Aang out of this (as well as Mai, for that matter) but I know I personally don't see anything wrong with Katara "mothering" Aang. There are a couple of scenes during the series I think could have been done better if the creators were angling for a romantic relationship between them, as they seemed to suggest a mother/son relationship, but I don't have too big a beef with that either. But I don't recall too many times when Aang was offering a lot of comfort to Katara. I mean, what was with him standing there staring at her when she broke down into tears at the end of The Puppetmaster? It's been a long time since I've watched the show, though, so there's probably something sometime during the series that I don't recall.

3/12/2012 #10
Amira Elizabeth

Actually the last moment or so of the puppet master has katara sobbing and Aang clearly has his arm around her. He is clearly trying off comfort her.

3/12/2012 . Edited 3/12/2012 #11
Fullmetal Catalyst

Katara does seem to enjoy healing to a degree, yes, but don't forget that she wants to FIGHT more than she wants to HEAL. SHE SAID SO HERSELF.

She wanted to fight because someone told her no. And I'm talking about emotional healing, too.

I mean, you both seem pretty correct to me. Katara is very much a healer. She's compassionate and driven to help others. She's motherly, filling in the void left by her own; she sees a need and seeks to satisfy it (Zuko in CoD, Sokka and Aang...all the time). She doesn't want people to hurt. But she's also very determined, and she doesn't think for a second that even the greatest healing abilities will mean anything in a fight against Zuko (let alone Azula). Not wanting people to hurt won't do anything if she can't back it up.

As for the therapist claim...it's not inherently insulting. It is when it's the only argument presented for the relationship, just as any other one-sided role-filling argument would be.

But I don't recall too many times when Aang was offering a lot of comfort to Katara. I mean, what was with him standing there staring at her when she broke down into tears at the end of The Puppetmaster?

I believe he and Sokka each had a hand on her shoulder, but I haven't seen the episode for some time either. I don't recall many times he offered her comfort either. That said, I also don't recall her needing comfort many times - not in the same way at any rate. She gets angry more often than sad/guilty/depressed, though she does of course have those moments when she breaks down (thrice in CoD alone).

3/12/2012 #12
Narwhalphonse

Does he put his arm around her? I don't remember that.

Hey, does anybody besides me think it's odd that the last conversation we see Katara and Aang have in the entire series is a fight? Shipping aside, the two are good friends, and the very last dialogue they have in the whole show is Katara yelling at Aang.

3/14/2012 #13
XxXTheSapphireDragonXxX
Well,she said that he respects your ship,so how about you respect hers?!You could have said it in a nicer way!LEARN SOME RESPECT!
3/14/2012 #14
XxXTheSapphireDragonXxX
ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?! "NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU SHIP!" Well you certainly seem to care if you're arguing with her about it!HAVE SOME RESPECT!
3/14/2012 #15
XxXTheSapphireDragonXxX
ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?! "NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU SHIP!" Well you certainly seem to care if you're arguing with her about it!HAVE SOME RESPECT!
3/14/2012 #16
Narwhalphonse

Custom stories and co:

Calm down, chickie-poo. People get fired up at each other here. It happens.

3/14/2012 #17
Mrs Pettyfer

Hey, does anybody besides me think it's odd that the last conversation we see Katara and Aang have in the entire series is a fight? Shipping aside, the two are good friends, and the very last dialogue they have in the whole show is Katara yelling at Aang.

The timing of that conversation was not done well, IMO. It had to happen, but it made no sense to do it so long after the eclipse kiss--so long later that I almost forgot they even kissed to begin with. And then go from THAT to kissing in the end. I thought it was odd they kissed after the eclipse and then acted like it never happened till I don't know, 7 episodes later or whatever it is. Meh. It wasn't handled well to me, either. I might have liked Kataang more if it had been handled differently.

3/14/2012 #18
Narwhalphonse

I was actually referring to the scene where Aang fights with the rest of Team Avatar about killing the Firelord. The last thing Katara says to him is, "Aang! Don't walk away from this!" or something to that effect. And... that's it. The next time they're onscreen together, they kiss without saying a word. I mean, when you think about it, it's just like... wha? Especially since Aang up and left right after that, and Katara has NO idea where he is throughout the whole comet, and is probably worried sick about him. You would think we would at least see a "Oh my gosh I'm so glad you exist!" after what Jun told them, but the timing was such that it didn't work out that way.

3/14/2012 . Edited 5/19/2012 #19
Mrs Pettyfer

Oh yeah! I forgot about that scene. Yeah, I honestly think the creators just didn't want Katara and Aang together until the very, very end, so they planned it out that way. It just didn't make much sense to me. :/ Hopefully Legend of Korra is better in the romance department, if there is any at all. Which I think there will be, especially since the characters are 17-20 yrs old. Either way, I'm excited for it. Release date is April 14th, I believe, in case you haven't heard. :D

3/15/2012 #20
Fullmetal Catalyst

Well you certainly seem to care if you're arguing with her about it!

@Custom: My good sir/ma'am, forgive me, but I think you missed some of Amira's points. Since Amira spent half her post defending her own ship, which was poked at in the original post, I suspect that you only latched onto the parts where Zutara, your ship, was poked back at, at which point you immediately went on the defensive and demanded that she show respect -- when she had simply responded in kind, if with more war-weariness. Please don't post with a double standard. While your message of respect is commendable, I recommend less usage of the Shift/Capslock key, as it comes across as textual shouting. Hardly the impression you want to give when asking for respect, as it severely undermines your entire post. (#oldmoderatorhabitsdiehard)

@donna, Pettyfer: Agreed. That segment feels rather odd, poorly paced, and in general just...e.g., these guys gave us Season 2. They gave us some amazing character arcs. And then...they stumbled a bit.

Re: arm around the shoulder -- I haven't seen the episode recently, but transcript says that Aang and Sokka each have a hand on her shoulder as she cries. What that means in the animation, I don't know.

Also, wrong topic, but since Pettyfer brought it up, there is also a new trailer out for Korra. It's visually awesome, Korra is compelling (I'm getting one or two Toph vibes...), and the villain is EPIC. Korra doesn't stand a chance against him. Unfortunately, Amon's voice is solid evidence that my crack theory -- in which I claim Amon = Zuko -- is incorrect. Dammit.

I do hope that Korra lacks romance, but if it must (and yes, it must) I also hope it's done well. I'm not sure it's fair to attach an adjective like "better", though. No matter how well they do it, even if it's perfect, the romance will never be more than a subplot. Subplot main plot, which = less screentime. Less screentime means EVERYTHING is "evidence". Thus we'll have non-trivial portions of the fanbase claiming it's poorly done and that THIS ship should be canon, that Bryke should've done what they did in AtLA/should've learned their lesson (depending on which side of the Kataang fence they stood), etc. Kataang was far from perfectly executed and moments like the one above should be called out, but it doesn't deserve even a fraction of the hate it gets.

3/15/2012 #21
Narwhalphonse

There's a release date?!!! *jumps up and down* yes!!! Finally!!!! Now all I have to do is convince my parents to get cable again so I can watch it, or track someone down who will watch it religiously with me...

3/15/2012 #22
Narwhalphonse

"Unfortunately, Amon's voice is solid evidence that my crack theory -- in which I claim Amon = Zuko -- is incorrect. Dammit."

Haha I'm sorry, Cadmos. But you never know - Zuko might be pulling a Darth Vader and has a distorted voice... it's unlikely, but don't lose hope at least until the show is out :P

As far as shipping goes, I hope Bryke doesn't do anything dumb in retaliation to the response they got in shipping last time. I mean if they decide on a ship, it needs to be because that's who they legitimately feel should be together, not to provoke or appease fans.

3/15/2012 #23
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