Kataang or Zutara?
This argument has come up a lot, what are your opinions about Kataang and Zutara? Which pairing is more likely? Do you think they're age differences really matter? Everyone's invited! Keep it respectful, though.
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TigerShadow

After what feels like a month (but was probably only about a week or two), I've finished my compare-and-contrast between Zuko and Malfoy and Zuko/Katara and Draco/Hermione. Be warned: if you're a huge Draco fan, you probably don't want to read this, considering the fact that I have a go at him just about every other paragraph (and it was extremely satisfying, let me tell you).

DRACO MALFOY AND PRINCE ZUKO: CHARACTER AND PAIRING COMPARE AND CONTRAST

One of the most common comparisons among fans of both the Avatar: The Last Airbender and Harry Potter franchises is between the two supposed "bad boys" of both series, Prince Zuko and Draco Malfoy (respectively). Perhaps more common is the comparison between two of their most popular non-canonical romantic pairings, Zuko/Katara and Draco/Hermione Granger. However, most of the time the comparisons only run skin deep, using generic labels to describe the characters and not looking at what lies behind the character types. The fact of the matter is that Zuko and Draco, despite sharing fandom reactions, are much different in canonical presentation, and so are their relationships with, respectively, Katara and Hermione.

PART I: CHARACTER COMPARISON

SECTION I: MOTIVE

A character's motivation is exactly what it says it is—it is the driving force of their actions, and a big part of what defines them as a person. In this case, Zuko and Draco are vastly different.

Zuko's main driving force, whether for good or for evil, was to regain his honor. In Book One, he intended to regain his honor in the eyes of his father by capturing the Avatar, and spent the entire season hunting down Aang, Katara, and Sokka. In Book Two, he carried on this motive, but it lessened as he grew throughout the season and became more concerned with survival, though he ended up making the wrong choice in CoD and joined his sister in fighting the Avatar. In the latter half of Book Three, he sought to regain his honor in the eyes of the Avatar, of the Gaang—and, most importantly, of himself, demonstrated in his continued desire to help the other Gaang members and redeem himself to them (helping Sokka find his father and break him out of prison, helping Katara find her mother's killer). The actions Zuko took out of this motive were often cruel and hateful in the beginning (burning down a village on Kyoshi Island, attacking a village full of the elderly and young children at the South Pole), but they did begin to become more and more heroic as his character—and the show—continued to grow, culminating in his working together with Aang to rebuild the world. Regardless, his actions, good or evil, do not diminish his motivation throughout the series of regaining his honor and redeeming himself—which can be at least be seen by most people as a fairly legitimate goal.

Draco Malfoy's main driving force is…well, what is it? Malfoy spends the entire series being a racist, classist, bigoted bully…and for what? What reason does he have to be such a j***? Draco Malfoy grew up in an extremely privileged environment—his parents gave him everything he wanted ("Judging by the fact that Draco Malfoy usually had the best of everything, his family was rolling in wizard gold" [CoS pg. 29]). It's a fair interpretation that he has been indoctrinated from a young age into believing in his own superiority, and he has seen his father and mother throwing around their names, their reputations, and their money in order to get what they want. The simple conclusion to draw is that Draco is such a domineering, self-entitled bully because that's what he thinks will get him what he wants. He's seen that it is successful with his parents, and thinks that it will fly with his peers (he uses his name and reputation both to dominate his fellow Slytherins and as a threat to those who do things he don't like, and he gets Daddy to help him buy his way onto the Slytherin Quidditch team). There is a reason for him to have this motive, but that doesn't make it sympathetic or morally acceptable.

SECTION II: BACKSTORY

Even more defining of a character than their motive is their backstory—a person's backstory often determines their decisions and how they react to things. In this vein, Zuko and Draco are more similar, though not by a great deal.

Zuko was a prince, a member of the Fire Nation Royal Family—perhaps the wealthiest, most well-off family in the world. He was very privileged while growing up, and his mother and uncle both loved him dearly. However, his childhood was not perfect—he was overshadowed by his more talented sister Azula, whom his father Ozai clearly favored. His mother was banished for treason, implied to be for killing Azulon to prevent Ozai from killing Zuko (Azulon ordered him to do so after Ozai suggested that he should be heir instead of his brother Iroh). Later, as discussed in "The Storm", Zuko spoke out in a war meeting against using untrained soldiers as cannon fodder until reinforcements could show up, and Ozai responded to this "disrespect" by burning off a third of his face in an Agni Kai (fire duel) and banishing him to go on a wild goose chase to search for the Avatar, not seen for almost a century. While Zuko's actions are not always sympathetic by any means, most fans of Avatar, whether they like him or not, agree that his backstory makes him the most sympathetic antagonist on the show, and one of the most sympathetic characters in general.

Draco also grew up in a pampered, privileged environment. His family's blood and social status gave them a certain degree of power and influence in the Wizarding world; they were extremely wealthy and his father often used this wealth to gain "friends" in the right places. He was most likely indoctrinated, to one degree or another, into his and his family's superiority, in blood and in status. His mother is shown to care very greatly for him—he mentions that she didn't want him to be so far away when he went off to school and thus wanted him to be at Hogwarts instead of Durmstrang [GoF pg. 165], and nearly went to pieces when he was given the task of killing Dumbledore because she knew Voldemort intended to kill him when he failed [HBP ch. 2]. She even went so far as to lie to Voldemort's face, telling him that Harry was dead, in order that she could get quickly back to Hogwarts and to Draco [DH pg. 726]. Meanwhile, his father may expect a great deal out of him ("I hope my son will amount to more than a thief or a plunderer […] Though if his grades don't pick up, that may be all he is fit for […] I would've thought you'd be ashamed that a girl of no wizard family beat you in every exam" [CoS, pg. 52]), but it is clear that, at the heart, Lucius does care for Draco ("He saw […] Lucius and Narcissa Malfoy running through the crowd, not even attempting to fight, screaming for their son" [DH, pg. 735]).

In short, Draco and Zuko may have grown up as spoiled little princes with at least one figure who cared for them, but whereas Zuko wound up coming from an abusive background, Draco did not—and Draco's backstory canonically makes him a much less sympathetic character than Zuko.

SECTION III: PERSONALITY/TRAITS

Two characters don't have to be exactly alike in backstory or motive to be comparable to one another if their personality and traits can make up for it. However, in this vein Zuko and Draco are even less similar.

If there were Avatars to represent each element, Zuko would be the one for his. He is—there are few other words for it—fiery, although he takes it in two different directions.

Fans have noted, on numerous occasions, Zuko's tendency to throw "temper tantrums" when he's angry. He yells at his uncle Iroh for not talking to him in "The Headband", snaps at Aang for talking about the dragons in "The Firebending Masters", and yells at Iroh to teach him the advanced set in "The Boy in the Iceberg", to name a few instances. He is reckless, brash, and arrogant—as Iroh notes in "Lake Laogai", he has a tendency to make stupid decisions without thinking ahead because he is too proud to admit that his way isn't always the best way. He is also a passionate young man, as shown by the fact that his firebending is fueled by his intense emotions—for much of the show it is rage.

However, Zuko's personality also changes as he grows—by the end of Book Three, his passion and drive have become his desire to change the world for the better (as he notes in "The Firebending Masters"), and he is much more relaxed and at peace with himself, no longer letting his pride and temper get the best of him—indeed, he is the one to tell Sokka that he needs to think the important plans through in "The Boiling Rock". He is indeed fiery and passionate, but he has also come to terms with those emotions, showing a true depth of character and growth throughout the series.

If Zuko and Draco have a personality trait in common, it is their arrogance, though of a different sort. Zuko's arrogance was a hot-headed belief that he was always right and could do anything he wanted to on his own; Draco's arrogance came from his overblown sense of superiority and aristocratic sense of self-entitlement.

Draco was very racist, demonstrated by his countless uses of the word "Mudblood" (a derisive term for Muggle-born witches and wizards and shown to be the Wizarding equivalent of the n-word) and his constant sneering at Hermione and others for their parentage, not to mention his desire to have Hermione killed by Slytherin's monster in CoS for the same reason [CoS pg. 223]. He was also classist, shown by his repeated bullying of Ron Weasley for his family's lack of wealth. Overall, Draco seemed to be under the impression that his blood status and family name meant that he was better than everyone else was, judging from his extremely bigoted, bullying behavior and his constant claims that his father could pull strings to get his family what they wanted (e.g. attempting to get Snape in as Headmaster in CoS [pg. 267], attempting to get Hagrid fired and Buckbeak executed in PoA, attempting to threaten the fake Moody with Lucius in GoF [pg. 206], et cetera).

Draco was very cold, capable of shutting down all of his emotions in order to become a bully (evidenced in his mastery of Occlumency, an art requiring a great deal of emotional neutrality [HBP pg. 322]). He was often quite petty; for example, he got angry with Harry for taking away Tom Riddle's diary (when Draco intended to read what he thought were Harry's embarrassing secrets) in CoS, and then made fun of Ginny's Valentine to Harry to her face out of spite [CoS pgs. 238-239]. He managed to get progressively more cruel as the series went on, going from simply making fun of Ron for being poor and Hermione for being Muggle-born to making completely uncalled-for remarks about Ron's parents (referring to Molly as "fat and ugly" and Arthur as a "worthless loser" in OotP) and mocking Harry for his dead mother in the same instance [OotP pg. 412-413]. He was also a hypocrite, willing to make fun of Ron's mother but getting all offended when Harry made snarky remarks about Narcissa [GoF pg. 204] (implied to be to prove a point to the reader—Draco can dish it out, but he can't take it).

The common reasoning for Draco as a sympathetic character is that he became so by the end of the series, redeeming himself by not killing Dumbledore in HBP and not giving Harry away to the Death Eaters in DH. This would be a fairly sound argument if Draco's previous, failed assassination attempts had not nearly killed Katie Bell and Ronald Weasley and if Draco had not nearly ruined the Trio's attempt to find Ravenclaw's diadem in the Room of Hidden Things because he was attempting to ingratiate himself to Voldemort by bringing Harry to him (and then, after the Trio saves his life from cursed fire, he is later sniveling and groveling on his knees to a Death Eater, begging for mercy [DH pg. 645]).

Zuko's personality, once hot-headed, temperamental, and brash, changed to become kind, brave, and passionate to do what was right. Draco Malfoy spent all his years being a pampered, spoiled brat of a bully who cared for nothing but himself. In the end, he never did really change—he began to understand that evil was not a toy, but he was still a pathetic, sniveling coward who only looked out for himself, his family, and his interests.

PART II: PAIRING COMPARISON

SECTION I: BACKSTORY

Zuko and Katara and Draco and Hermione both had backstories involving a great deal of enmity; however, while Zuko and Katara became good friends by the series' end, Draco and Hermione most certainly did not.

Zuko and Katara did not exactly get off on the right foot. In his desperate hunt for the Avatar, Zuko attacked Katara's village and manhandled her grandmother in "The Avatar Returns", which is not exactly a great first impression. He then proceeded to hunt her, her brother, and her friend for months all throughout Book One, attacking with fire and being as aggressive and forceful as he possibly could ("The Waterbending Scroll" and Zuko's attempt at blackmail come to mind). They later met in the Crystal Catacombs under Ba Sing Se in "The Crossroads of Destiny", having both been captured by Azula, and they ended up having a heart to heart over their missing mothers. Zuko managed to gain Katara's trust for a short period of time and she offered at one point to heal his scar, but Zuko ended up choosing to side with Azula and returned home to the Fire Nation, betraying Katara in the process. In "The Western Air Temple", however, Zuko joins Team Avatar in order to defeat Ozai, and Katara, bitter and mistrustful, informs him that she's still wary where the others aren't and she will kill him if he tries to hurt them again. She finally forgives him in "The Southern Raiders", and their relationship gains growth and strength in the finale, both of them winding up saving each other's lives—Zuko in "Into the Inferno" by taking a lightning bolt meant for Katara, and Katara in "Avatar Aang", defeating Azula and healing Zuko.

Draco and Hermione were also bitter enemies throughout the Harry Potter series. Draco is implied to have been jealous of the Trio (specifically Harry), often belittling their achievements out of spite, and he claims to his father in CoS that Hermione only gets better grades than he does because the teachers like her better, furious that he, a pureblood, was bested in every exam by a Muggle-born witch [CoS pg. 52]. He manages to buy his way onto the Slytherin Quidditch team with the best racing brooms money could buy at the time, and when Hermione sharply calls him out on this, he responds by hurling a racial epithet at her [CoS pg. 112], repeatedly referring to her as a "Mudblood" throughout the series ("that jumped-up Granger Mudblood" [CoS pg. 223], "You're not telling me someone's asked that to the ball? Not the long-molared Mudblood?" [GoF pg. 404], "Oh, yeah, I forgot, you're a Mudblood, Granger" [OotP pg. 626]). Draco even wished for Hermione to die at the hands of Slytherin's monster in CoS. At no point do Draco and Hermione ever become friends, being only on fairly civil terms by the end of DH.

Both Zuko and Katara and Draco and Hermione have a similar backstory of enmity, but while Zuko and Katara overcame it to become good friends, Draco and Hermione didn't even have a relationship of any kind by the epilogue of DH—he just nodded curtly in her, Harry, and Ron's direction without speaking.

SECTION II: RELATIONSHIP DEVELOPMENT

Zuko and Katara were certainly not friends by any stretch of the imagination in Books One and Two—being on opposite sides of a manhunt will do that to a relationship. Katara reached out to him when she could in CoD, but Zuko turned against her and betrayed her trust. Katara and Zuko were enemies, and Katara was very unwilling to trust him when, later on in Book Three, Zuko has a change of heart, turns against his father and sister, and attempts to join Team Avatar, considering that he's already betrayed her before. Katara makes it clear in "The Western Air Temple" that she has not forgiven him for how he betrayed her and that if he slips up once, she won't hesitate to kill him. She eventually does wind up forgiving him, however, in "The Southern Raiders", when she learns to let go of her hurt and bitterness, and they ended up becoming a very good team, working well together in their training to take down the Fire Lord in "The Phoenix King". Perhaps the greatest indication of how much their relationship had been strengthened was when the two went to face Azula in "Into the Inferno" and "Avatar Aang". Zuko and Azula fought each other one on one in an Agni Kai, and Azula, sanity crumbling apart, aimed a bolt of lightning at Katara, who had been standing ready to help, and Zuko leaps in front of the lightning and is nearly killed when part of it goes through his heart. Katara later defeats Azula and heals Zuko, both thanking each other for what they have done, and both have clearly forged, if not a close one, then a very good friendship—saving each others' lives will do that to a relationship.

Draco considered Hermione to be nothing less than worthless all because of her blood status, wishing her dead and often hurling a racial slur at her due to her lack of wizard parentage. Hermione, in turn, loathed Draco for all of what he did to her, Ron, Harry, and Hagrid, once memorably slapping him across the face for making fun of Hagrid's grief over Buckbeak [PoA pg. 293] and another time wishing that he had been sent to Durmstrang because then she, Harry, and Ron wouldn't have to deal with him [GoF pg 165]. Their enmity certainly wasn't weakened by their fifth year when they both become prefects; Hermione was furious when Draco attempted to goad Harry and Ron into a fight on the Hogwarts Express [OotP pg. 194] and she certainly didn't feel much better when Draco, newly appointed to the Inquisitorial Squad, began abusing his powers to undermine the prefect system and take points from Gryffindor for absolutely no reason [OotP pg.626]. There is also little to no interaction between the two in the last two books—Hermione is too busy being jealous of the Half-Blood Prince, being jealous of Lavender, going on the run with Harry and Ron to hunt for Horcruxes, and falling in love with Ron Weasley; whereas Draco is too busy attempting to assassinate Dumbledore, allowing a means for Death Eaters to secretly infiltrate the castle, and realizing too late that evil is not a toy to get himself out of servitude to Wizard Hitler.

Zuko and Katara's relationship development was tumultuous, but it did result in a fairly close bond between the two, and were it not for the fact that Katara and Aang have had the romantic development, Zuko and Katara might have had a shot at happening (at least in the future of the canon; there was no way to shoehorn Zuko/Katara into the last four episodes). Draco and Hermione, meanwhile, spent a good five or six years either hating each other or ignoring each other, and in the end, Hermione has a stable boyfriend, two best friends she can count on (and many other good friends), and status as a hero, while Draco is a broken coward who seriously needs to pick up the pieces of his life before he can even think about falling in love with anyone, especially someone who wouldn't give him the time of day anyway.

PART III: CONCLUSION

In the end, Draco and Zuko have not proved themselves to be comparable except in the way that the fans react to them (that is, "ZUKO/DRACO IS SO HOTTT LYK SRSLY MRY ME PLZ!!11!"). While Zuko's story and his qualities make him a redeemable, sympathetic hero, Draco's story and qualities lead from being a pampered swot of a bully to being a broken, cowardly trainwreck.

Their relationships with Katara and Hermione are only slightly more comparable. While both pairs have one person each on the opposite sides of the war (conveniently enough, the heroes are female while the villains are male), Katara and Zuko, with their developing friendship and gradual trust in one another, have a much better shot at happening romantically than Draco and Hermione, with their bitter enmity and their status in the other's eyes as the very thing that the other cannot stand.

In short: Prince Zuko and Draco Malfoy are simply not comparable to one another, nor are the pairings of Zuko and Katara and Draco and Hermione, and it is quite clear that the former of both comparisons win out in the end.

8/10/2012 . Edited 8/11/2012 #1
dayties

WONDERFUL ANALYSIS!

I find it ridiculous that people compare Zuko and Draco whatsoever. The characters have little to nothing in common and I'm sure if they met, the ending would be cruel and incredibly obvious. Zuko's character is quite often made out to be much worse than it is, and Draco's is made into a stereotypical "hurt soul" character so that people will, quite blatantly twist the characters obnoxiously and make them nothing like themselves and then compare them to each other.

(Besides, Draco isn't even that attractive.)

8/10/2012 . Edited 8/10/2012 #2
TigerShadow
(Besides, Draco isn't even that attractive.)

SA;LDKJFHASKJEDHFUANBGJFHLSADFA ASLKDF

UR MAH BEST FRIEND. LYK NAO.

8/10/2012 #3
dayties
SA;LDKJFHASKJEDHFUANBGJFHLSADFA ASLKDF

...and I was waiting for the hate. YOU TOO? SWEEETNEESSS.

I mean, I'm a fan of limited/few real life people in looks, but to say he's attractive is by far the biggest stretch ever. Especially in the movies. In real life, he's not even that bad really but my image of Draco and Draco's awful personality has him skewed for the rest of his life.

8/10/2012 #4
TigerShadow

Pssht. The fangirls can have him. I'll stick with my good guys and Matthew Lewis.

but to say he's attractive is by far the biggest stretch ever.

Especially considering that in the books there are numerous references to him having rodent-like, pointed features, and Moody turning him into a ferret may have also had something to do with his looks.

8/11/2012 #5
Braveatheart777
I agree with u! I guess it bugs me that people compare a character I hate(DRACO) and a character I love(ZUKO)
8/22/2012 #6
Phoenix Call
I agree wholeheartedly with this analysis. Comparing Zuko and Draco is like comparing Aang and Harry. Sure they have somewhat similar upbringings (Zuko/Draco) and somewhat similar roles at least in the beginning in their respective story arcs (both) but they are really nothing alike. Personality wise Zuko and Harry are far more similar. Both are angsty kids with pretty incredible mood swings come from abusive backgrounds with absent parents have at least one father figure that has helped them see the way and have overcome their pasts in order to become genuinely good, likable (if awkward) people. And let's not even start on their girl trouble. Both totally inept chick magnets. And both are determined to make their parents proud whether they are alive or dead. They are both fiercely loyal to their friends, have problems with authority, like to do their own thing despite what others say against their plans and have extreme courage to face the darkest truths of their lives and themselves. They have both been set out to accomplish theoretically impossible goals and are determined to see them through till the end. They also both have a hero complex (somewhat hidden in Suko until the last half of season three due to the evens that followed the last tome he had indulged his hero complex in the war room). The only main difference I see between their situations is that they were born on the opposite sides of their respective wars, Harry for the "light" and Zuko for the "dark". The fact that Zuko was able to overcome his own past and upbringing and join the "light" side of his war is then only made even more amazing. The kind of courage that would take is quite staggering. If Harry had been born of the "dark" side with a similar past, I believe his situation would have played out a lot like Zuko's. Now adding house affiliations, I have always considered Zuko a Gryffindor with a lot of Hufflepuff characteristics. Harry is also a Gryffindor. Draco is a Hufflepuff. That already says a lot about their innate personalities since the hat sorts by that. Personality wise Zuko and Draco are night and day. Draco is a lot more like Azula though nowhere near as brilliantly and has a bit of trouble "walking the walk" so to speak when he actually becomes a Death Eater. And Aang and Harry, they have similar positions in their respective wars but personality wise are absolutely nothing alike save for their respective reckless hero complexes and disagknowledgement of authority. Any is a champion of peace and love. Harry just wants to get the job done already. So yes. Zuko and Draco are nothing alike and I am so glad someone has finally written something like this. Sorry I just went out on my own rant, but as you can see I am quite adamant about this fact as well. It's one of the things that p*** me off just like sorting Zuko into Slytherine just because he was once a villain to Aang's hero like Draco was to Harry even though he is a classic Gryffindor with a lot of Hufflepuff. Though him being in Hufflepuff doesn't bother me as much as him being in Slytherine. I mean seriously? Azula is a textbook Slytherine. Seeing their interaction, Zuko wouldn't even survive a day in that snake pit (pardon the pun). He's too much of a Gryffindor. And same with the Zutara versus Dramione. Zutara could definately work. Dramione, not so much.
2/9/2013 #7
TigerShadow
And let's not even start on their girl trouble. Both totally inept chick magnets.

This made me smile.

Draco is a lot more like Azula though nowhere near as brilliantly

This made my insides do a conga line. Draco might be a Slytherin re:personality traits, but his manipulation and cleverness leave a great deal to be desired.

2/10/2013 #8
The Cretin

TS: Pssht. The fangirls can have him. I'll stick with my good guys and Matthew Lewis.

I hear ya on that, Shadowcat. It pains me in some ways to see this. In this day and age, the "bad boy" persona is highly desired in characters by many fans. Thing is: Many of them don't even realize what a true "bad boy" is. Bad boys are exactly what the name implies. They're bad. Zuko, Draco, and others don't strike me as true bad boys. They whine too much. True bad boys are nothing like them. I guess many fans associate Zuko and Draco as being the "alpha" males in the story when they're actually not.

Both Aang and Harry took up the challenges before them. They both led their companions into battle. They both took on and defeated the all powerful big bad at the end of their respective stories. These are the actions of strong willed, leader-take charge types that I always saw as true alpha male characters.

2/13/2013 #9
TigerShadow
Shadowcat

I like this.

I guess many fans associate Zuko and Draco as being the "alpha" males in the story when they're actually not.

See, the thing I don't get is why anyone would associate Draco with the "alpha male" position. I could see someone looking at Zuko that way (because, as stated, Zuko does become a great leader and person and, while a supporting one, at least something of an alpha male). I just can't see anyone thinking that Draco has any redemptive or leaderly qualities that would place him in that role. I mean, aside from being The Bully/Spanner in the Works, what does Draco really do?

They whine too much.

"Whining? How dare you accuse me, you filthy little Mudblood/halfblood/blood traitor! You wait till my father hears about this!"

"I am the crown prince of the Fire Nation, peasant! I do not whine--I seek for my honor!"

In short, I consider that to be a rather accurate portrayal.

2/14/2013 #10
The Cretin

I like this :)

I guess it just falls down what fans "see" in the character. The number 1 rule of fandom is: See what I want to see. Draco's got a TV Trope named after him. Draco did lead the other bullies around. He was revered in House Slytherin. Zuko I guess becomes an "alpha" in his own right but only after much character growth. Mostly Draco is Harry's antagonist in some ways (not as bad as ol'Voldie though) and some fans, especially girls, like the antagonistic "bad boy" persona. I guess the attitude is another factor. When I look at Zuko and Draco, I don't see bad boys or alphas. I see bullies. In essence, "rogues". When I think of bad boys, I remember the guys in high school that joined gangs, dealt dope, and did "bad boy" things. The only girls for bad boys....are bad girls.

I laugh at it sometimes because many times in fanfictions and even real life, I watch "good girls" try and save the "bad boys". Truthfully, I've rarely seen them succeed. All that I see in the end is either bad fanfic or relationship that goes downhill or worse, an unwanted pregnancy....usually with a father that doesn't want it.

A true alpha male is someone like Aang or Harry. They strive to succeed against impossible odds. A true alpha male is someone who will stand up to the bullies or better yet, one the bullies don't want to mess with because they know they'll be sorry if they do. A true alpha male is someone who knows what it takes to make his mate happy. A true alpha male is someone who will work his fingers to the bone to give his children a life that is better than he ever had.

"Yeah, you're whining Draco.....better tell Daddy to stay at home. I'm a medieval expert and a practitioner of Western Martial Arts. I've studied knights since I was 10, I wield a mean sword, I've been blessed by the Church and I'll drag before the Inquisition to stand trial for witchcraft )8D......I'll smite ya with the Wrath of Heaven if you mess with me boy!!!!!!! XD LOL!

Seriously, all playful banter aside, Zuko and Draco were great for the roles they played in their respective stories but its the tendency of fans to see what they want. Its when they try to argue the truth is when it begins to get exasperating.

On another note, I am a history teacher and medieval times is my specialty so if you'd like to ask me anything for a fanfic you're working on, feel free to look me up :)

2/14/2013 . Edited 2/14/2013 #11
TigerShadow
one the bullies don't want to mess with because they know they'll be sorry if they do

I have a feeling that by the time of the end of the series, Draco would cower in a corner at the prospect of a real wizard's duel with Harry, because he knows Harry would beat his sorry hide from there to Beauxbatons. Harry's got the skill set, the bravado, and the knowledge that Draco hasn't got much to his name except Potions and Occlumency, neither of which gives you an advantage when a Stunning Spell is flying your way.

I don't think Zuko would want to duel Aang either, but by the end of the series, you can tell that it wouldn't ever come to that (discounting the comics, which look about as interesting to me as dry rot, sans The Search). I don't think it would make sense for Zuko to want to duel Aang, because he not only knows that he can't win without pulling an Azula (if, of course, he were capable of shooting lightning at all), but he also knows that Aang is one of his closest friends and they would trust one another with their lives in an instant.

A true alpha male is someone like Aang or Harry. They strive to succeed against impossible odds.

Quoted for Harry shilling.

2/15/2013 #12
The Cretin

As someone who has been involved in DnD before, (yeah, I know I'm such a nerd XD) I can tell you there are spells that can do worse than kill. I don't think Draco and Harry will be "bloodfeuding" enemies, maybe life-long rivals and foils but you pretty much said it all. Draco don't want none of that.

Exactly. As they both grew, they grew as friends as well. Not to mention, I think Zuko's all but given up on ever wondering if he could beat Aang. He tried how many times? And got his butt handed to him. The only fight they had where I'd say Zuko could claim victory was CoD and he only won with Azula's help and a shot in the back. I don't think even Azula could take Aang in a one-on-one. Aang's the most powerful bender there is. He can literally become one with the universe and his past lives.

Harry Shilling????? You may have to refresh my memory on that one. Its been forever since I was involved in forums but Avatar and TC have slowly gotten me back into the groove :)

2/15/2013 #13
TigerShadow
Harry Shilling????? You may have to refresh my memory on that one. Its been forever since I was involved in forums but Avatar and TC have slowly gotten me back into the groove :)

I mean the shilling of Harry--as in, heaping accolades on our dear Mr. Potter. As well you should.

2/15/2013 #14
The Cretin

Oh ok. I'm a bit rusty and out of touch with terms. ;) The way I see it, Harry earned a happy ending so who am I to argue that. Harry stood up and became a man. Harry achieved what alot of people thought he couldn't. He deserves an accolade or two.

Same thing with Aang. He brought down a tyrant. United the nations. So on and so on. Just as there is a comparison between Zuko and Draco, there is also one between Harry and Aang.

2/15/2013 #15
GuiltlessShame

Tiger: This forum made me laugh, mainly because of the comments you inserted in between people agreeing with you.

And honestly, I can't agree more.

2/15/2013 #16
The Cretin

Phabel: I don't know if I've mentioned it or not but your avatar's absolutely adorable. Almost as cute as mine XD

2/15/2013 #17
TigerShadow
Tiger: This forum made me laugh, mainly because of the comments you inserted in between people agreeing with you.

I have to admit that when people on this forum agree with me, I usually feel like those images of people/animals with really huge smiles/smile-esque expressions that read something like "Someone on the Internet agrees with me!". It's kind of lame to take pride in that fact, but it's nice to know some people do.

I don't know if I've mentioned it or not but your avatar's absolutely adorable.

This.

Almost as cute as mine XD

Actually, Cretin, whenever I just glance at your avatar, I usually subconsciously think that it's a picture of an Equalist.

2/15/2013 #18
Marius Prime

Never seen the appeal of Draco. He's good for nothing but posturing and preening and annoying everyone, but when it comes time to put up or shut up, he folds like a paper towel. He's a cheesy villain wannabe.

Zuko, on the other hand, is competent and interesting. He's a credible character, while Draco is basically a bit of color to add depth to the Hogwarts setting.

2/15/2013 #19
The Cretin

TS: Hey you make clear statements and you're alright in my book. If I haven't got you to laugh yet, I hope I do in the future.

What?......ol'Judd the CHUD? An Equalist?.......(8D Naaaahhhhh

Marius: I have to agree with you there. He's not much of a frontline villain. Certainly nowhere near He Who Must Not Be Named.

2/15/2013 #20
TigerShadow
What?......ol'Judd the CHUD? An Equalist?.......(8D Naaaahhhhh

It's the glowing eyes, round-ish head, the dark body, and the dark background--it reminds me of that scene in The Revelation when Korra and Mako fight the chi-blockers on the roof of that building.

2/16/2013 #21
GuiltlessShame

The fact is, Malfoy would never EVER date Hermione because her parents are human.


Marius: He's a cheesy villain wannabe.

I completely agree. His only real purpose in the series was to create a rivalry for Harry.


Cretin: I don't know if I've mentioned it or not but your avatar's absolutely adorable

I changed it and logged off about five minutes before you wrote that. Not even kidding.

But I changed it back :)

2/16/2013 #22
GuiltlessShame

*by human I meant not wizards. Oops.

2/16/2013 #23
TigerShadow
The fact is, Malfoy would never EVER date Hermione because her parents are human.

You mean Muggles? ;)

It's not even on Malfoy's side alone. Let's give Hermione some credit here--she'd never date Malfoy, not because of her own classism/racism/other prejudices, but because she literally has no respect for him. Even without the racial slurs hurled her way, he's treated her two best friends like the dirt under his shoes and he's turned into a sniveling, dirty coward by the end. There is no way that Hermione Granger, the brightest witch of the age and a renowned heroine of the Wizarding world, would ever give Draco Malfoy a second passing glance. Who wants to date a pathetic, racist j*** when you've got a hero of a boyfriend who cares for you and protects you? What sane woman would choose Draco Malfoy over Ronald Weasley?

Besides, Draco's not even funny.

2/16/2013 #24
Marius Prime

Honestly, you could leave Ron or any other potential romantic interest completely out of it. Hypothetically consider the question as if there was no one else in Hermione's life she could be interested in that way. Do you think that Hermione, at any point in the series, would be romantically interested in Draco Malfoy? Draco, the annoying low-grade schoolyard bully. Draco, the obnoxious, racist lout. Draco, the enthusiastic lickspittle for any evil greater than his own wretched self that comes along. Even if there was no more attractive option that presented itself, what makes anyone think that Hermione would be interested in that?

If they're really determined, an enthusiast of the pairing could justify Draco's terrible behavior toward Hermione as trying to pretend he wasn't attracted to her. But even if that's the case, that wouldn't change the fact that he's pretty thoroughly emotionally alienated her, well beyond any hope of redemption, very early in the series.

2/16/2013 #25
Phoenix Call
TS: It's not even on Malfoy's side alone. Let's give Hermione some credit here--she'd never date Malfoy, not because of her own classism/racism/other prejudices, but because she literally has no respect for him. Even without the racial slurs hurled her way, he's treated her two best friends like the dirt under his shoes and he's turned into a sniveling, dirty coward by the end. There is no way that Hermione Granger, the brightest witch of the age and a renowned heroine of the Wizarding world, would ever give Draco Malfoy a second passing glance. Who wants to date a pathetic, racist j*** when you've got a hero of a boyfriend who cares for you and protects you? What sane woman would choose Draco Malfoy over Ronald Weasley? Exactly. Hermione has taste, after all.
2/16/2013 #26
Phoenix Call
Ignore the stupid formatting problems I have with this forum because of my iPod. My reply is the last sentence :P
2/16/2013 #27
TigerShadow
an enthusiast of the pairing could justify Draco's terrible behavior toward Hermione as trying to pretend he wasn't attracted to her.

He must have really been in denial, then. The sad thing about that is that the whole "they hate each other because they love each other!" argument is essentially the entire basis for the pairing. As a point of comparison, the Zuko/Katara pairing, at least from what I've seen, uses the "mutual vitriol = secret love" thing as more of a plot device or an offshoot of the character interactions, choosing instead to base their ship around "opposites attract/Aang is too immature" (do correct me if I'm wrong, Marius; I've not been a real ship war veteran). Draco/Hermione, however, is entirely based upon that argument, and somehow the fangirls that ship this are still enamoured with Hermione's character because she's a strong, intelligent girl. I can't be the only person who sees a disconnect there, can I?

2/16/2013 #28
Marius Prime

Not at all. You're completely right. I agree that the argument you're quoting is nonsense, honestly, but I recognize that it's the only avenue of approach for fans of the pairing. The fact that it still doesn't work is what I'm getting at. Ignoring that crush-denial antagonism doesn't actually look like that, you still have to contend with the fact that Hermione doesn't like Draco because he's terrible, and that's not going to change.

There's never going to be a positive, affectionate interaction between the two characters. It's one of the few things I find less likely than Katara/Zuko.

2/16/2013 #29
The Cretin

Marius: I recognize that it's the only avenue of approach for fans of the pairing.

This.....this is the factor that often leads to many pointless fights over ships. Fans of a ship that has few avenues are always gonna be more defensive. Often times taking a sensible counter as an outright and unjust assault.

I understand that every ship's crew has a pov. Still, think about this: What kind of life would these two have? What....are we supposed to believe that Hermione is gonna change Draco for the better? I ask: Do we really want that? I prefer Draco as the scheming, backstabbing little schemer he is. It wouldn't be HP without Draco trying to be Harry's foil. What's gonna happen to Hermione? Is she gonna turn into a snobbish, racist, horrible person just to be with Draco? That would be a backslide imo.

For these two to get together, it would be a monumentous change in personality. Much the same as K/Z.

2/16/2013 #30
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