Soul's Radiance
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xBeautifulMage

Stormlight,

I've heard that as Hotohori's name in another fanfiction, are you the author of that fanfiction or just a fan of it or what? I believe it comes from Butterfly's Sleep . . . as well as Fate am I right?

2/19/2009 #31
Stormlight

No, I'm not the author of Butterfly's Sleep. I think Andy Wong is actually the name Watase Yuu gave Hotohori's reincarnation. He's a famous singer in China. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I might've read that somewhere.

2/19/2009 #32
xBeautifulMage

Ohh. . . ~didn't realize this~ Gomenasi then~ x x ;

2/19/2009 #33
otaku-no-miko

Yep, you're right Stormlight - Watase-san introduced several reincarnations in a CD, and one of them was Andy Wong, a Chinese popstar. The CDs were released in tandem with the second OAV. ((I found this on Tomo no Miko's page - everything FY is located there, it would seem!))

You mentioned Nakago as an artist - yeah, I can see that, too. After all, the picture we're given of him as a child is of this fragile, gentle, soft-spoken, generally nice kid; it was after Kutou decide to mass exterminate the Hin that he became a heartless b***. So without that experience, I think he could be an artist.

2/19/2009 #34
KittyLynne

@ otasu no miko

I think surgery is a liiiiiittle too high-stress for Mitsukake ^^; He's a calmer person and doesn't really do fast-paced, edge-of-your-seat medicine - out of any specialty, I can see him being a good general practitioner, or even a good pediatrician. I always get the image of a small-town doctor that knows everything about all of his patients. He'd also probably enjoy being a veterinarian! If medicine were not an option, I can easily see him as a professor (probably of some sort of science, but for some reason, I can also see music).

I am fixating on this because I dearly love Mitsukake. :D

I agree that surgery wouldn't be his preference, for the reasons you mention. (I also think his height/size would make it difficult for him and others in the operating room. At what height would they adjust the table? Who could see around him?)

He would make an excellent GP... or a specialist (Oncology, Ob/Gyn, etc. I actually have an idea for a reincarnation story with him in this sort of role. )

Given his enthusiasm for herbs and elixirs, I could also see him being a herbologist, Pharmacist or a chemist. :)

2/20/2009 . Edited 2/20/2009 #35
Valyemma

Oh my! Stormlight, I cant wait until you'll post this story! ^O^

Anyway, I agree with the fact that Andy could be the arrogant type, I think it was obvious in the CD. Hotohori displayed some vanity and narcissism, which is a kind of arrogance IMO, but without being a j***, much to the contrary. We all have our flaws.

I don't know why, but I feel that in your fic, there will be some kind of tension between him and Nakago. (Since Nakago is the one who killed him in the previous life). Am I right? :)

For Miaka not being the type of Andy at first, I pretty much agree with this; Miaka is clumsy, a glutton, not a drop-dead sexy girl, but I guess Andy, even if he would never remember of being Hotohori, would have ended falling for her if he spent time with her and learned to know her better. I guess she would be the one who would drop this arrogant veil hiding his sensibility. =P

Hotohori himself, was kind of a cold person in front of strangers.

For the general reincarnation topic, I guess some bribes of their previous personalities would stay with them, and also the experiences they had as Seishis would be burned in their souls. By example if a guy dies by drowning, he would have one unknown and persistent fear of water in his next life. See the context?

Of course, their new lives would build some qualities and flaws in their personality, but I think there always is a base to their personality. As a person who beleives in reincarnation in real life, I think some people can be born nice or mean, smart or stupid, etc...

The experiences of lifes mold the personalities depending on what they already were while childhood/adulthood etc... One evil person may become even more evil if there was a lot misfortune in their life, or nicer, etc...

Errr, I'm going off topic now... I stop there. (It's difficult to me to express myself in english, lol)

2/20/2009 #36
MandereLee

Wow! This topic is really intriguing (hehe, and confusing to some extent). It really shows how much of a thinker you guys really are. Actually, some of you sounded like geniuses throwing some of those ideas in! ^__^

Well, I'll go back to the beginning and answer that question. I'll later make a post on what I think each seishi would be if they were reincarnated in the real world, like what SakuraSunrise has done.

To answer the question, "Are they the same person?", my answer is that I don't think they would be. Like many of you said, each seishi, in the case of being reincarnated, would have been raised in a totally different environment. I think the most prominent factor is the timeline, seeing as they would be born into the modern world, where many things from their previous lives would be obsolete. There's also the factor of where they would be born, say a different country. You guys have already nailed all the points about this, so I'm sure there's no need for me to repeat. ^__^ Hehe.

Ah, soul mates!! I am currently reading a book right now called "The Gargoyle". I'm not sure if any of you have read it before, but it is very interesting. Now, in this story, a man suffered a terrible burn. He met a woman in the same hospital who called herself Marianne, and she insisted that they were lovers seven hundred years ago in medieval Germany. This is what you guys were talking about, right? When two people who know each other constantly becomes part of each other's lives every reincarnation. However, many of you pointed out that the point of reincarnation was to learn from the past experiences, so that one could continually grow as a person. As well, some of you mentioned that the reincarnation could be considered as a second chance, or a "clean state". In this story though, the man seemed far worse in the modern world than he did when he was seven hundred years ago. The woman appeared to be the person who comes to his rescue every time. Here's another problem: he never knew of his past life. No memories, nothing. It was only her who insist that they were lovers. Now, this could just be a case of mental instability (though I highly doubt it; I'm sure I'll figure it out by the time I finish reading the story.) But he does dream of little tidbits, like objects, events, (and he happened to be born with a scar that he got in his previous life). So, this must be the 'subconsciousness in the works' that you guys mentioned. Anyway, sorry if it seems as if I lost my track. I only introduced this book, because I was reminded of it when I read through your posts. ^^

The second question I came across was would they still have powers? I agree with the person who said that they would, because their powers are connected to their souls (forgive me, I forget who that was ^^;). I'm just wondering though, for what would they need their special abilities now that they don't have a priestess to protect, nor a god to summon? I mean, of course, if they wanted they could use it to protect people of their own choice. (By the way, I'm going a little off-topic my point here... do you guys think it's possible for a reincarnated person to inherit the memories of one seishi, but receive the powers of another? Say... someone had the memories of Tomo, but they had extraordinary strength like Nuriko does? Is that entirely possible?) As far as if they have the same powers, I would say that for the most part, yes. I just find this hard for a few celestial warriors like the "nature freaks". Ashitare for example...imagine him being raised as a vegetarian, I doubt that he would rip an arm off and start chewing. Or how about Namame? Just because he was not a human being in his previous life, it does not mean that he still could not be in the next. I think he'd somehow have the ability to control rocks, but otherwise, I think he'd be human too.

Erm... the next posts I read were exploring the idea of parallel universes... in which, I have to sadly admit, I got lost. I couldn't exactly grasp all your thoughts there. I know that the timeline was being debated... how could Taka have been the reincarnated form of Tamahome, when Miaka had not gone into the book yet? So that was the question. Can anyone explain the answers that were given? ^__^;

Jumping onto the next question, I think Amiboshi and Suboshi would be seperate people, because they were two different people to begin with. Just because they were twins, it does not mean they were the same at all. Now, this actually got me thinking. What if someone had (for some strange reason) gained the memories of two seishis at the same time? Not only Amiboshi or Suboshi, but let's say... Chiriko and... Soi? Do you guys think that would happen?

Anyway, it appears as if my post has gone pretty long. I'll add more to it later, and touch on the next subjects that were brought up.

8/25/2009 #37
KittyLynne

I'm so glad you commented in this thread, it's one of my favorites! :D I wanted to acknowledge this post before another day got by and to say that I will be back to give my reply to the excellent questions you've raised (not goint to attempt that now, as it's two am right not and my cognitive abilities have pretty much shut down. ^^;)

Also, thank you so much for giving this forum a shout out on your bio page! Speaking as a moderator, it makes me very proud and happy to hear that someone has found this forum helpful and enjoyable to read. *grin*

Until later,

KL

P.S. Hope to see some other responses to your post as well! *pokes members*

9/6/2009 #38
KittyLynne

*sheepish grin* It took me a lot longer than I originally thought it would to get back and give my opinions on some of the excellent subjects and questions raised by MandereLee-san. I didn't want to shortchange my answers, though, so it'll (hopefully) be all for the good. ^_____^*

I am currently reading a book right now called "The Gargoyle".

The Gargoyle sounds fascinating, and an excellent fit for this thread. (After seeing it in a book newsletter, l had it on my 'Check it out' list- after reading your thoughts I'm going to move it up to the 'Must Read' list. :D ) In discussing it, you raised a great question about reincarnation ...would two people who had a romantic relationship in a past life still be attracted that way to each other and relate to each other in the same ways in their next lives? Upon pondering for a short while, my initial reaction would be to say that if there's a basic core element of a soul that is appealing on that level to another soul, then the two souls would want to find each other and reestablish contact. However, I don't think it would guarantee that the two souls (if they found each other) would necessarily end up having the same relationship because of the (previously mentioned) variables of environment, culture, time period, etc. ^^

I'm just wondering though, for what would they need their special abilities now that they don't have a priestess to protect, nor a god to summon? I mean, of course, if they wanted they could use it to protect people of their own choice. (By the way, I'm going a little off-topic my point here... do you guys think it's possible for a reincarnated person to inherit the memories of one seishi, but receive the powers of another?

To reply to the first question, it's my opinion that the seishi wouldn't need to be reborn with their celestial powers once their mission was successfully completed. It was my impression in the OVAs that the seishi got to choose their new lives as a reward for their services...with the caveat that the powers would awaken if their world was threatened, and their services as warriors were needed again. Two examples of this would be from the OVAs, with Taka merging with Tamahome's memories and regaining Tamahome's power, and in Eikou Den, where the book's deterioration necessated the reborn seishi regaining their memories, and therefore, their powers.

To reply to your second question regarding one seishi inheiriting anothers powers...my inclination would be to say no, that their powers are exclusive to their particular soul. They can lend extra chi to each other, but that's the limit. If that weren't the case, then any seishi could have 'stolen' or switched abilities with anyone at any time.

However....I also think that as long as someone could come up with a plausible explanation for that happening, fanfiction makes anything possible. *grin* That goes for shared memories too. Have to say that I'd be skeptical regarding what circumstances would facillitate a Seiryu seishi gaining a Suzaku seishi's memories or vice versa. If it happened in a fanfiction, it would probably have to be a Deux ex machina (god in the machine) type plot, where Seiryu and Sukaku decide to play around, or a case of kodoku laced amnesia (as in the first OVA, where Tamahome was being manipulated with false memories of being Nakago.)

I have to refresh my memory on the parallel universe discussion before I attempt to explain it...;)

9/23/2009 . Edited 9/23/2009 #39
MandereLee

Aw, that's alright KittyLynne! I guess we've all been pretty busy, so no worries about replying late ^^.

Yeah, 'The Gargoyle' is really a very interesting novel. It went a bit too long for me though, so I spoiled myself and read the last chapter. I didn't really think that the ending was very happy (it really depends on your perspective though, so I hope that wouldn't ruin it for you ^__^), so I decided not to continue it (you can tell that I'm a sucker for happy endings ^^). When I have more time, I'll sign it out again to finish it! But yeah... I really do recommend it. And it really ties in with the issues we talked about in this thread, and that's why I brought it up.

To reply to the first question, it's my opinion that the seishi wouldn't need to be reborn with their celestial powers once their mission was successfully completed. It was my impression in the OVAs that the seishi got to choose their new lives as a reward for their services...with the caveat that the powers would awaken if their world was threatened, and their services as warriors were needed again. Two examples of this would be from the OVAs, with Taka merging with Tamahome's memories and regaining Tamahome's power, and in Eikou Den, where the book's deterioration necessated the reborn seishi regaining their memories, and therefore, their powers.

So, I'm guessing that they would be reborn as normal people. I didn't really pay much attention to the OAV's, so thank you for pointing that out to me! Hehe, in regards to your answer for my second question, I actually didn't think so in the first place, but I wanted to see what you guys thought. It would be a little funny though, and might only work as a humour fanfiction, or like you said, in a Deux ex Machina.

And you're welcome, by the way, about the shout out of SR on my profile page. I figured a little promotion of my favorite groups wouldn't hurt. ^^

Oh, and I have another question. I'm really not sure if this should go in the writing help thread, but since it relates to reincarnation, I'll ask here. Do you think that the reincarnation of a seishi has a choice whether they want to regain their memories or not? I mean... even if they regain it, do you think that somehow they can repress those memories, and pretend that they're not there? I'm writing a story where that's the case, and I was just wondering if that can happen. I don't think that having memories of someone from hundreds of years ago (with magical powers, to add to that!) is exactly peaches and cream when it first hits them. I'm sure that they would have been a little worried, or a little freaked out about it.

9/23/2009 #40
shadowchsr

Wow! It's been two years since I've posted in this forum, granted this thread was quiet for one year and since stopped checking but still sorry for my long silence to those who like my insane ramblings.

There's a lot of good stuff since my last post. I want to expand a bit on my alternate worlds stuff and other comments made here. One thing I would like to remind everyone in here is that during the TV series when Tamahome grabbed onto Miaka and was pulled with her durring Yui's wish he was both without a shadow or a reflection. He was not a whole being in this world. Miaka's brother said it was because he was originally a two dimensional being that is now in the real world but what if it's not that and more or less because he was only a fragment of Taka who we know is alive and living a normal life in the "real world" or a reflection of Taka's essence or spirit if you will?

In a way that can explain the lack of powers a normal person would have in the real world. Even Miaka never really displayed her abilites unless she was in the Universe of the Four Gods. the only times she did show any strength or power was when she was joined with Suzaku, when she and Tamahome were dead and in their spirit forms and summoned the Gods to seal Tenkou. So if the Book is a gateway to a world within our own reality (and not a totally separate universe or altnerate reality) where the spiritual essence of a character is what comes through that can explain why Taka remembers bits of Tamahome's life in dreams and that would also mean that everyone in the book that has an integral part to play is the same way. Of course that would also mean that everyone is in some way linked to their respective mikos even if they never meet in the 'real world.' If the link between them is strong enough I can see them being drawn together.

I know I'm kinda off topic with this different worlds and dimensions but the reborn theory doesn't make perfect sense because Taka was alive while Miaka was having her adventures in the books which doesn't fit in with normal patterns of re-incarnation. Even with the Dhali Llama he's reborn a few weeks after his death. So my whole slightly convoluted theory. Also if I'm not mistaken (Please correct me if I'm wrong I've never heard them) in the Audio CD's that had Hotohori's incarnation and such weren't Tasuki and Chichiri there as well? And those two never died in the series. So either their real life versions are linked to the book spiritualy, there's some weird souls traveling back and forward through time in order to be when they want to be if not exactly where and that just gets messy, ( like the first idea isn't weird enough) or it could be a fully devoloped alternate universe that can touch our own and so gives alternate versions of the Seishi dreams and instances of deja vu when they are near others that they shared their lives with in the Universe of the Four Gods. But that doesn't explain Taka merging with Tamahome unless he was already a part of him which supports my first convoluted idea. (sighs I watch too much Doctor Who)

I'm gonna ignore the rebirth of the characters in the Third OVA and I'm sorry if that upsets anyone but I still want to answer some things that others posted in regards to each person's powers and just go with my own insane and hopefully slightly entertaining musings. It's also of my opinion that the Seishi and their powers are one, a part of their spirit and most likely something that slumbers until it's needed. I find that with most accounts that I hear of past lives, there are usually centuries between each rebirth with some rare exceptions like the Dhali Llama or like the fictional Avatar the last Airbender universe.

Though Avatar gives a good basic example of reincarnation for a purpose or destiny as his presence keeps the world in balance. Aang, is always reborn within a week or so of his previous incarnation's death and while he doesn't remember all of his past lives he can--through his spiritual powers-- converse with past incarnations while not remembering those lives aside from feelings of familarity and deja vu. I feel the the Seishi's powers would probably never manifest or at least not to such a strength unless needed and I doubt they'd remember much or anything from their past lives outside of dreams and flashes of gut instincts and deja vu unless something can trigger the memories stored within their souls or remembering would serve some kind of higher purpose.

I also feel that spiritual senstivity can play a role in remembering anything about a past life, destined warrior or no. If all souls reincarnate then all of us have had past lives but most of us don't remember them. Someone who's more spiritual or sensitive to energy currents and their own subconcious through meditation and such may be more likely to remember bits of a past life. I think also the strength of emotional and spiritual bonds can to lead being drawn in a certain direction or path, but even such paths have choices to make. Basically I think the more open minded a person is the more likely they are willing to accept a past life or memories even in small bits as opposed to someone who is very rigid or narrow minded and couldn't accept such memories. But nessessity is the mother of invention. I think the majority of the Seishi's memories would remained locked along with their powers unless there is a need for them. And even with a release of their powers there is no guarentee they will remember everything from the past. Even with Taka merging with his past memories those memories portrayed his interactions with Miaka and the other Seishi. I'm not certain if he'd remember much about his family from that time except for the bits we saw when we saw the series ourselves.

Of course then there is still the debate if the Universe of the Four Gods goes back in time at all or if it's just another world. if it involved actual time travel that means two things, the endings were all pre-ordained, and two would allow for the time to pass between seishi death and rebirth into the modern "real world" era that Miaka and Yui live in. It also doesn't explain Tamahome's lack of solidity (no shadow or reflection) in the real world in episode 47. Nor does it explain why Miaka can't stay in a different time unless the Universe of the Four Gods is not a complete world. It's more like a world within a world and inherently linked to ours through magic and ancient gods. One just has less substance and more magic than the other.

Now I'm gonna stop for a while since I've gone rather off topic and I appolgize and i hope I didn't give anyone too bad a headache. I swear it makes sense when I write it.

9/26/2009 #41
MandereLee

Hello Shadowhcsr! I'm glad you dropped by and gave more insight to this thread! I'm really having fun.

Wow!! I must say that your analysis is very in depth, and I haven't even considered taking things that deeply! You've pointed out some really great facts about Taka and Tamahome. It is definitely possible that Tamahome was only a fragment of Taka at that time and hence he could not be a 'real' person.

Your point about Taka being 'reborn' as Tamahome really hit me. There is always that question what would happen had Miaka not stumble across the book. People might answer that as 'fate'. Taka had already been reborn because fate decided that he would be Tamahome's reincarnation, and that Miaka would stumble across the book any way or the other.

But your argument really got me thinking about something. We always consider people like Taka as a reincarnation of people from the book. However, since the book is considered magical, I was thinking that maybe it formulates its characters similarly to the real people that the priestess are fated to meet in their real life. Well... uhm... I just realized that that actually didn't happen with Byakko no Miko.... but it's still an interesting point to ponder upon.

I know that in the manga, Miaka wished to Suzaku to somehow make Tamahome a part of her life. So we know that that's how Taka came along. But what's tricky is whether Taka had just acquired Tamahome's memories the moment Miaka finished her journey in the book. And it's possible that the other 'reincarnated' seishis had just received their respective memories as well when Miaka finished the book. If that's the case, then that's not exactly considered 'reincarnation', is it? And who gets to decide which people will receive these memories?

Anyway, I don't have much time right now, but I do wish to regard your other ideas, as well as SakuraSunrise's next time.

9/28/2009 #42
shadowchsr

However, since the book is considered magical, I was thinking that maybe it formulates its characters similarly to the real people that the priestess are fated to meet in their real life. Well... uhm... I just realized that that actually didn't happen with Byakko no Miko.... but it's still an interesting point to ponder upon.

Thanks for responding. I have said it before but I just love discussing theories and such like this. While it's true Tatara and Suzano never reunited until after death their spirits did. It could just be that they never crossed paths in the real world. There are many reasons they couldn't be together such as Tatara's counterpart already being involved or commited to another and only remembering such things as a dream just like Taka did. So either their spirits crossed over or the "real world" or Tatara's counterpart died the same time his character did in the book and that may be the only way for them to be together to be together. After all that happened close to 80 years ago and one didn't go and leave the person they are promised to back then. Just because someone has a "soulmate'' doesn't mean you end up together.

In regards to when Taka starts to get dreams and flashes of memory concerning Miaka, that's hard to tell, I figure if it happens durring Miaka's journey and after that would support my theory as she was only in the book for a few days in the "real world" but if he had them since he was a child then that puts a hole in my theory. I think in the TV series it's implied he's been dreaming since he was a young child which seems a bit much as it's only a few months of time in the Universe of the Four Gods. I don't remember if Watase-sama implied that in the manga or not. I know he never had more than flashes of memory when Miaka met Taka for the first time in the manga and the first OVA was the animator's fix to the blunder of Tamahome/taka remembering everything at the end of the TV series. Also because of that I ignore the first OVA and therefore Taka and Tatara would not be able to really remember or search for their first loves. Miaka was lucky and Taka went to school with her brother so he could help bring them together. Also acording to the audio CD Hotohori's counterpart was born in China, not even in the same country and became a pop star. I'm Sure he'd look for Miaka if he remembered.(sorry is a hotohori fangirl)

Though honestly as to who gets to decide if they will remember. I think it has to do with the person themselves and the type of memories involved. Tramatic memories are not something anyone wants to remember. I have memory blocks on my childhood due to abuse and I certainly waffle between wanting to remember so I can deal with it and not knowing so that it's not even an issue. I think if events echo a past experience they can get deja vu or a situation of extreme stress that can force them to tap deep into themselves, some past skills or memories can leak through. and once a door is opened it's a choice of the person to step through it.

So just another few bits to think about.

9/28/2009 #43
shadowchsr

Heh heh. Most reincarnation fics have Nakago as some sort of high-powered businessman or a lawyer. In the fic I've been plotting out, he's actually a student teacher who'd come from America to study in Japan. He comes from a large family and was raised with both parents and a few younger siblings, and has had a very good life; the complete opposite of his past one.

I find it both intriguing and yet fitting that you would make Nakago a teacher. Much if who he was was shaped by his life in Kutou so aside from his intelligence, his ability to read and guide people would serve him well in such a profession or in any profession really and in all truth without the darker past, it can quiet possibly nullify his need for control and power that drove him so strongly in the series and to turn it into a more positive force is something I am happy and eager to see for his character.

Though I never agreed with Watase's idea of Hotohori becoming a pop singer. I'd rather see him in just about any other role though I look forward to seeing him break through his arrogance which I feel is a mask similar to his alloofness and vanity he displays as emperor. Though to have him the heir to an empire, financial or otherwise is always something I'd like to see him break away from as well because he was so unhappy as an emperor. Granted, he has a lot more freedom in this life then he'd ever have no matter what his financial status though there would still be certain expectations if he ends up being the only son or heir to his family's Software Company.

Still, I would love to see how these characters bot change and remain the same in these new incarnation and if any others make there way into the story.

I'm sorry to be unable to find your works and to see no updates on your homepage in over a year though Stormlight. I would love to read this story as it progress.

9/29/2009 #44
MandereLee

Ah! The prospect of what each reincarnated seishi would do in their new lives is always been so exciting to thing about for me!! I've been waiting to get the time to respond to Sunrise's ideas, and now that it's shortened period day, I actually do! ^__^

Let's see here...

Tamahome: Yeah, as Taka he is a college student, and we all know that he ends up marrying Miaka, and being a great father (no doubt) to Hikari. However, if we had some leeway into what we think he would do, I would probably say a banker... or a stock broker. Anything that has to do with money and saving it, and expanding it, I think would be appropriate for Tamahome. I've seen people suggest that he'd be a good body guard too. After all, he did have all those martial arts training. Not really sure if Taka did as well, and I only see this possible if Taka has any interest at all with the person he is going to save. Anyway, I think he'd make a really good kinder-garten or elementary teacher too! Just because he's so good with kids and kids love him back. He could be that cool teacher everyone likes, and everyone snitches to. ^^

Hotohori: A pop star? That was really surprising for me when I found out about that. I mean, I know he's got the looks and everything, but I didn't think he'd be a singer. I don't know. Maybe a model, more like? But anyway, since we know that he's going to be a singer anyway, I sort of see him going more into the genres of r&b instead of pop.

Nuriko: A lot of people say that he could be a fashion designer, and I see that too. I think he'd be good for that occupation, and he might actually be quite good at modelling as well. I also see him as a singer, because I just love Kaze no Uta. Hehe, I know that's pretty biased, but I actually see more X-Factor in Nuriko than Hotohori. Maybe because he's got more charisma, and Hotohori's... he's a little bit reserved (that might be because of his regal upbringing though).

Tasuki: Yep... I can see Tasuki in any sport. Let's see... I don't quite see him in basketball. Maybe soccer, or tackle football. (Ooh... what about swimming? ^__~). I've heard of people say Tasuki would make a good bartender, but I think that wouldn't be a suitable full-time job for him. Maybe in the evenings he could be. He'd also make a great cast for Twilight. Hehe... I'm joking, but with those fangs? Really.

Chichiri: I agree with Otaku when she said that he'd make a good psychologist. He analyzes things very well, always has a good word to say to people, and he can really help with their problems. He's a good listener too, and I think that's the key thing. People would naturally open up to him. (Sort of like Nick from The Great Gatsby). He can reserve his judgement until otherwise needed, but he can also give advice to people.

Mitsukake: A doctor! Definitely a doctor. Otaku said surgery might be a bit too much stress for him seeing as he does take things pretty calmly. I agree with her that he could be a pediatrician as well. A basketball player? Hmm... not so much. I really couldn't believe it when he turned out that way. I mean, sure I know he's like 6'6, but... I just didn't think he was the type. Maybe he could be one of those really easy going, nice, quiet, reserved basketball player... if they have those anyway. ^__^

Chiriko: I can see him as a professor, or a child genius that makes a frequent appearance on TV shows. He could be an inventor, or even be an advisor to politicians. He's a great strategist, that's for sure, and now in his reincarnation, I'm sure that his brilliance is permanent; not determined by the appearance of his seishi symbol.

I'll edit this post later to include the reincarnations of Seiryuu Celestial Warriors (btw, did they really have one?). If you know me, you'd know I'm more opinionated about the villains than the heroes ^^... so I'll make this post extra long. Later.

9/29/2009 #45
Valyemma

Okay, my turn. ^^

Tamahome: Personally, I prefer seeing him as a sport teacher, or maybe the kind of guy who runs from a job to another to gain money enough to spend time with his family.

But banker is plausible too.

Hotohori: I've been surprised too at seeing him as a popstar. Maybe a soft rock singer or a stage drama actor, or model would suit him better. I see him as a man who want to express himself by music, poetry or such, allow himself to do things he couldnt in his previous life as an emperor, a bit authoritative on how he wants things to be (carreer, etc), generous but still very lonely because show business is a pit of hypocrites and greedy people. Kinda aloof. Not taking advantage of his carreer to hang around with girls, but having had several girlfriends but didnt get any psychological, companionship satisfction. And spending his time in shopping sprees, being lonely in front of TV or with a notebook, and maybe causing a few slight scandals because of some of his emotional outbursts? (Kinda OOC, but I think that Hotohori could be very passionate and allowed himself some intense emotional expression in some circonstances.) The kind of scandals? No idea. But surely minor things that any random person would do but that the papers would swell up.

I also see him as arrogant, much like Stormlight said, arrogant, but not a j***. I see him wondering what the heck he could have fallen in love with Miaka in his previous life, teasing her sometimes, a bit like Mamoru and Usagi in Sailor Moon, but then by knowing her better, falling for her and doing everything to be with her, being extremely nice to her, etc.

But this arrogance could also be a kind of protection, hiding the sensitive, gentle and lonely man he actually is.

Nuriko: The idea of him being a spy/secret agent is interesting! He has all the attributes needed, good looking, can crossdress, disguise, is superstrong, has a very seductive power (Miaka havent really been totally apathetic about his charm at some point of the series), is smart, full of courage and willpower, so i think it is a good job for him.

But he would make a good stylist too, or owning a luxurious clothing/accessories ship in the Dior, YSL style, or having his own popular clothes shop. ^^

But I just don't see him as a singer, model, etc... it's just not his style IMO.

Chichiri: Be a monk again or a priest is interesting, but I agree with the others he could make a good psy or therapist (I would love to have him as my therapist), or maybe a country guy, or the kind of guy who sells snacks around popular streets, popular with girls and people. :D

Tasuki: Honestly, I see him as a minor delinquent, the "I'm a nice bandit" kind, just holding himself to small 'innoffensive' misdeeds, like shoplifting, selling some stolen stuff, etc...

A sport teacher is also a good idea, I see him like Hiruma in ES21. =D Football is really suited to him, or maybe in sparring, but swimming is also interesting! XD

He would be so afraid of water and runs so fast he would run above it! XDD "OMG!!! He created a new sport!!!! Runnin on water!!!" or some nuts would think he's Jesus. =P (J/K)

Mitsukake: Definetly a doctor, or veterinary surgeron.

Chiriko: A very high grade student, or in university. As an adult, I see him as a politician (not a greedy one of course!) or strategist, or a great scientist. :)

9/29/2009 #46
daianapotter

Tamahome: Yeah, as Taka he is a college student, and we all know that he ends up marrying Miaka, and being a great father (no doubt) to Hikari. However, if we had some leeway into what we think he would do, I would probably say a banker... or a stock broker. Anything that has to do with money and saving it, and expanding it, I think would be appropriate for Tamahome. I've seen people suggest that he'd be a good body guard too. After all, he did have all those martial arts training. Not really sure if Taka did as well, and I only see this possible if Taka has any interest at all with the person he is going to save. Anyway, I think he'd make a really good kinder-garten or elementary teacher too! Just because he's so good with kids and kids love him back. He could be that cool teacher everyone likes, and everyone snitches to. ^^

jajaja its very probable xD and yeah^^ he will be the best father^^ he is very sweet n.n and a banker xD this could be his dream come true (besides marry Miaka of course) xD sorry for the bad english xD

Tamahome wo ai ni *_* (lo que no te haría xD)

10/1/2009 #47
MandereLee

Alright, I figured I'll just make a new post for the Seiryuu Seishi. ^^

Amiboshi: A musician all the way, hehe. Wasn't that a little too obvious? He'll make a great flutist. Or maybe he can be a child piano prodigy or something. Maybe even a singer? (Although, I'm a little too biased just because I love "Nocturne" so much ^__^). I think he'll make a great one though, although I'm not sure how he'll handle all that attention. He's a little on the shy side. Anyway, careers that are outside of music... I think he'll be a very persuasive peace advocate. ^^ Heehee... he's such a pacifist. Hm, maybe he can also volunteer for social programs like Big Brother and Big Sister. ^^

Suboshi: Yeah, I agree with SakuraSunrise. I can sort of imagine him in some kind of sports... sort of. It'll be a healthy way for him to let out his aggressions, so long as no one in the opposing team ends up with a broken bone. Hm, otaku-no-miko has suggested a physicist. I really don't see him as someone who will be doing that though. To me, it seems as if that kind of advanced math and science will be way too beyond for him. I mean, I'm not calling him dumb or anything. Besides, it'll bore him. I see him doing things more active. I've read people suggest things like yo-yo champion, or a gymnast (*shrugs*, I guess because he likes exercising). I'll get back more on Suboshi later.... ^__^;

Miboshi: On the other hand... Miboshi, I can see as a physicist. Or maybe even a scientist, an alchemist, a magician, or an exorcist. Hehe, he called on demons in his past life, and in this one he'll banish them! Great way to repent, no? Hehe, joking. Yes, I can also see him as a politician. Maybe a dirty one too.... but that'll be unfortunate. He should make great use of his second chance.

Soi: I definitely see her as a model. A short one though. Apparently she's only 5'7. Models these days are around... 5'10? In the anime, she looks so tall. Anyhow, she's very beautiful. Maybe she can even be an actress. Some say she'll make a good lawyer, just because she's able to see both sides clearly. In the anime, she did, but she just chose to act upon the wrong side because... well, it's Nakago's side. ^^ What else for Soi? Maybe one of those really hot police women? Hehe. Since she likes action anyway. ^^

Nakago: Yeah, definitely a very good lawyer or a businessman, with a very high status in society. I even see him in military too. He could even be a general yet again. What's important is that Nakago knows how to handle people (and with proper upbringing this time, hopefully he wouldn’t lead them to bad situations ^^).

Tomo: I can see him as an actor, or a stage performer, like in Broadway or something. Since he loves performing so much after all. Any kind of artistic career, I can see him in it. I just realized; isn’t it funny how Tomo is actually the only character to be a real singer and he didn’t have a character song. That’s pretty… sad, I guess. But I think his voice wasn’t very… friendly-sounding, if you know what I mean.

Ashitare: After all that abuse he went through as an animal? Uhm, an animal activist, definitely. Maybe an environmentalist too. He’ll be concerned with how the pollution is ruining animal habitats. Or he’ll be campaigning for endangered animals. Anything humanitarian.

So… there are my views about the Seiryuu seishi. What are yours?

10/1/2009 #48
shadowchsr

I think some seishi, especially the Seiryuu seishi are hard to imagine in a new life because we don't know much about them character wise. Hell even Nakago wears an emotional mask through the entire series and we never get to really see the heart of him until the very end. Ashitare and Miboshi you only see when they attack and have no character devolopment. Tomo has very little beyond his battles as well. Aside from Nakago, Soi and the twins, there is very little character development. I mean Tomo's powers are illusion based. If he were reborn in a world where those powers were surpressed or had no reason to manifest, would he still be drawn to stage and theater? Soi, who was used as a prostitute and basically objectified until Nakago rescues her, (and even then he uses her for his own benefit), would she want to be a model where she's basically a sex symbol again? Would Suboshi be such a hothead without the anger and grief at the loss of his brother. Doctors actually say the death of anyone close to you can be a major influence on your life for the minimum of five years as you continue to grieve at least in forms of depression and anger and such. And say nobody is to ever make life desisions for one year after the loss of a loved one. Nakago was obessed with controll because of his lack of control as a child and what that lack of control did to him. Take away those tramatic events and memories and you'll find different people. The same thing with Ashitare's abuse. If he doesn't remember it, it can't be a guiding factor into who they become in another life. Ashitare may still have a strong bond with animals though no longer half wolf. I could see him going into a field that involved wildlife studies or conservation. Though anyone with a love of animals or nature would want such a career.

Though one can aruge that since seishi powers are attached to the soul, to a degree they would influcence some character directions when a seishi is reborn. Still it's not a deciding factor. Hotohori becomes a pop singer. That has nothing to do with his seishi powers. If anything it seems more a reflection that he was emperor. in both lives, he became an iconic symbol of power. After all in today's modern age, celebrities are the closest things we have to how royalty was revered. Though considering how often he wanted to not be emperor it seems out of sorts for him to want the fame and lack of privacy that a pop icon would garner him. He may not have the responsibility of a nation, but in my opinion, that is probably the only reason he never ran away from all the pomp and circumstance. He had a greater purpose and was the guiding light of his people. Tamahome's life also seemed to reflect one who helped take care of a family, and not centered on his fighting though he did know Kempo.

Miboshi was so twisted, I don't think he has the right to be reborn as a human. I forgot which religion it was, but if you lead an evil life, you'd take steps back in your reincarnation cycle. Taking on lower life forms before working your way back up to human. (Then again. Sometimes I wish I was reborn as a house pet. my dogs are so spoiled) After all aside from controling demons, he also possessed humans, and slowly smothered and killed the souls ocupying the bodies he takes over. He was more demon than human. I seriously wouldn't mind seeing him reborn as a cockroach or something equally vile. Maybe a lab rat that has to be experimented on. (that way he could help cure cancer)

Nakago without the abuse that made him so control orientated. I can see him being anything. He's got great leader potential but that doesn't mean he will be power hungry and want some kind of financial or legal empire. He was a warrior first and formost and a strategist. I could see him just as equally a teacher or even a police dectective. He could even be an FBI profiler. He's great at getting into people's heads their motivations and drives though that is a skill that would require development.

The twins are the hardest for me to think about who they'll be as they grow up because they are the youngest. they're only 15 and nobody can really say who they are at 15. Hell we're still discovering ourselves in our 20's. They both lost their family due to infighting in Kutou and then Suboshi lost his brother and spent most of the series in a rage at the Sukaku Seishi, so I feel we never truly knew him. Amiboshi, after his amesia, I feel is a true reflection of what we could see out of either twin because he had no hate or pain or memory of loss due to his memory loss. Someone who has the capacity for great gentleness and protective as well as the fiercness to fight without mercy. still it's hard for me to say what they will be when they choose a direction for their lives.

okay that's enough rambling

11/3/2009 #49
KittyLynne

MandereLee said: "Amiboshi: A musician all the way, hehe. Wasn't that a little too obvious? He'll make a great flutist. Or maybe he can be a child piano prodigy or something. Maybe even a singer? (Although, I'm a little too biased just because I love "Nocturne" so much ^__^). I think he'll make a great one though, although I'm not sure how he'll handle all that attention. He's a little on the shy side. Anyway, careers that are outside of music... I think he'll be a very persuasive peace advocate. ^^ Heehee... he's such a pacifist. Hm, maybe he can also volunteer for social programs like Big Brother and Big Sister." ^^

The musician part might be obvious, but that's because it's so right for him! :D I also love the idea of a reincarnated Amiboshi as a peace activist (or as a Peace Corps worker, if he were an American *grin*) He'd make an excellent teacher and/or community services worker too, especially in working with at risk kids. :)

"Ashitare: After all that abuse he went through as an animal? Uhm, an animal activist, definitely. Maybe an environmentalist too. He’ll be concerned with how the pollution is ruining animal habitats. Or he’ll be campaigning for endangered animals. Anything humanitarian."

This is an *extremely* interesting idea! I could also see him as a zoologist...

11/3/2009 #50
KittyLynne

Shadowhcsr said: "Miboshi was so twisted, I don't think he has the right to be reborn as a human. I forgot which religion it was, but if you lead an evil life, you'd take steps back in your reincarnation cycle. Taking on lower life forms before working your way back up to human. (Then again. Sometimes I wish I was reborn as a house pet. my dogs are so spoiled) After all aside from controling demons, he also possessed humans, and slowly smothered and killed the souls ocupying the bodies he takes over. He was more demon than human. I seriously wouldn't mind seeing him reborn as a cockroach or something equally vile. Maybe a lab rat that has to be experimented on. (that way he could help cure cancer)"

You make an excellent point about evil and reincarnation! Miboshi would definitely not come back as a human...which then begs the question, would Miboshi go through the process of redeeming himself so that he could be reborn as a human? Hmmm....:D

"Nakago without the abuse that made him so control orientated. I can see him being anything. He's got great leader potential but that doesn't mean he will be power hungry and want some kind of financial or legal empire. He was a warrior first and formost and a strategist. I could see him just as equally a teacher or even a police dectective. He could even be an FBI profiler. He's great at getting into people's heads their motivations and drives though that is a skill that would require development."

I see Nakago as someone who'd be great as a manager/agent/strategist/spin doctor for celebrities or political candidates. I could also see him excelling as a movie director of a big budget blockbuster, ala Steven Spielberg or George Lucas. *grin*

11/3/2009 #51
otaku-no-miko

I just noticed this tidbit we all seem to have glossed over. Lynne mentioned it several posts back...

In discussing it, you raised a great question about reincarnation ...would two people who had a romantic relationship in a past life still be attracted that way to each other and relate to each other in the same ways in their next lives? Upon pondering for a short while, my initial reaction would be to say that if there's a basic core element of a soul that is appealing on that level to another soul, then the two souls would want to find each other and reestablish contact. However, I don't think it would guarantee that the two souls (if they found each other) would necessarily end up having the same relationship because of the (previously mentioned) variables of environment, culture, time period, etc. ^^

I think this question is an excellent one and brings up some interesting ideas for new pairings. Yes, Miaka and Tamahome (and Yui and Nakago or Suboshi to some extent) were star-crossed lovers destined for one another...but in a new reincarnation, would that remain the same? Would "Mandy" and "Thomas" (or "Yasmin" and "Nick" or "Yvonne" and "Sam") fall for one another again?

I think this answer is partially dependent on whether or not the new people remember being in love. Think about it; if you could remember that once upon a time you had this grand, earth-shattering, world-changing love, you'd be a lot more receptive to falling for someone with those attributes, or someone who says they had that pastlife once. Does that make sense? So I guess I'm wondering if reincarnation and the outcome of it can be altered by remembering the past.

9/4/2010 #52
KittyLynne

would two people who had a romantic relationship in a past life still be attracted that way to each other and relate to each other in the same ways in their next lives?

*grin* Thank you, Otaku - this is one of my favorite things to ponder and discuss. :D

I think this answer is partially dependent on whether or not the new people remember being in love. Think about it; if you could remember that once upon a time you had this grand, earth-shattering, world-changing love, you'd be a lot more receptive to falling for someone with those attributes, or someone who says they had that pastlife once. Does that make sense?

It makes sense to me! It could be a hindrance or a help if they remember the reasons for and the intensity of the love more than the actual person...because, conceivably, there could be several people who have similiar attributes to the person that was loved in the past life.

So I guess I'm wondering if reincarnation and the outcome of it can be altered by remembering the past.

Heh, this is the question I'm exploring in one of my fics- Miaka is not reincarnated, and remembers everything about Tasuki. Dante (Tasuki's reincarnation) doesn't have any clear recollection of who he was, but Miaka brings out many aspects of his personality that have him thinking about past lives and deja vu ...

I have more to add to this thread, but it'll be posted later. I have to hit the hay, as I've got to be up at six am...=P

9/6/2010 #53
KittyLynne

Continuing the thread...

So I guess I'm wondering if reincarnation and the outcome of it can be altered by remembering the past.

Hm....this is the million dollar question. I know in general that Buddhist and Hindu religions believe that who you are and how you live your present life will very likely predetermine what you'll be and what happens to you in your next one. Following that line of thinking, If someone is very well off, I suppose they can assume they deserve their good fortune...and conversely, that a poor life means they need to atone for a sinful past life. In other words, a person's reincarnation is influenced by specific actions. Therefore, if someone is unhappy with the kind of life they are leading, they can influence the status of their next life by doing good things and striving for enlightenment...

As far as romance goes, I think people that are in tune with their subconscious would be able to sense a connection when meeting someone that they knew in a past life. But reincarnation in Fushigi Yuugi is a whole different ball of wax because we're dealing with a soul traversing the gap between two entirely different worlds, not just lives. Is it really reincarnation if someone chooses to leave one world and reappears in another as essentially the same person, sans memories?

9/10/2010 #54
otaku-no-miko

I think the operative word in your reply is "essentially". Take Taka. Taka is Tamahome's soul, or that's what we're told. But (and I'm trying to explore this in Phoenix Ashes) he isn't Tamahome. He had a completely different upbringing, different familial and societal pressures, and overall a different life. Sure, he likes the same sort of things, and has the same sort of morals and beliefs and behavioral tics...but do those things make him "Tamahome"? (Man, re-reading that last sentence, I hope that made sense!)

So here's a question for you then: does Miaka love Taka, or does she love Taka, the reincarnation of Tamahome?

---

I've always been a firm believer that it is our experiences in life, not our personalities, that really make us who we are. Two people can have very similar personalities and beliefs but have very different backgrounds and things that led them to be that way. That, I think, is where people have difficulties with reincarnation fiction, because they think "oh, well Charlie is the reincarnation of Chichiri and he is mysterious and sarcastic and wise because Chichiri was!"; sure, he can be all those things, but it's the events he's been through in his life that would have led to those personality quirks, not the mere fact of reincarnation. And I think it's this fact that leads us to that scary deep dark secret no fanfiction writer likes to think about: it's okay for a reincarnated character to have different qualities. Hotohori doesn't have to be a drop-dead gorgeous, super-vain, martyr type; Nuriko doesn't have to be more flamboyant than pink tulle...

Alright, I may have gotten slightly off-track. =) And I never answered the question! I think that remembering the past could cause problems with a character's ability to grow. If I remember I was Princess Pearly of the Land of Purple Rain I might be more inclined to become vain, foppish, and a little arrogant because...well, I was Princess Pearly of the Land of Purple Rain, gorramit. So instead of progressing in this life and learning the lessons I need to learn (in this case, humility and modesty come to mind), I would get stuck in the same ruts I was in as Princess Pearly. Does that make sense?

9/13/2010 #55
Nile1283

Hello ^^ Firstly, I am extremely late =\ gomen. But I stumbled on this topic and it looks so very interesting and I wanted to share some of my thoughts for anyone that's interested. I have been writing a reincarnation fic featuring Nakago and I constantly debate with myself on what his reincarnated version is like, so I found the posts in this thread to be very stimulating. I will go over some of the questions I have about him in my head.

1. Was Nakago evil? What was his general character?

Well,I have always felt, along with the rest of this fandom, that Nakago turned evil by circumstances not by choice. A lot of people suggest that the driving force behind his singular aim for vengeance was to avenge his tribe and his mother.

Now here's a question : If you've read Seiryu Den ( Spoiler alert) , Nakago was half-hin. His mother had to give up her priveleges as daughter of the chief and had to go live in a hut at the outskirts of their village. It was because the Hin people had ostracized her for having relations with someone who was out of their tribe. Ayuru himself noticed this cruelty as well when Taria's mother and the rest sometimes objected to him being there. Also, he was homeschooled for this very reason as well. Before the massacring of their tribe happened, Ayuru dealt with it the only way his mother had taught him : to turn the other cheek. But that just does not mean that he held any love for that race. He was, I suppose, as normal kids are, loving those who love them.

Now for such a person, I would think, if their whole race was suddenly wiped out, he would feel a sense of loss and would be traumatized I'm sure but , I think his sole concerns for vengeance were only regarding how his mother died and how he was treated afterwards. He could not have had patriotic feelings for a race that didn't let him in. A strong sense of loss yes,deep sorrow yes, but not strong enough feelings to avenge them.

It just so happened that it looked like he was avenging their tribe but he was doing it solely for his mother and perhaps his friend Taria. I guess, at this point, he even resorted to Tenkou because to him, as a child, Seiryu may have meant nothing more than a figure in stories. But children automatically cling to the religion of their parents and since his mother worshipped Tenkou, so did he.

Incidentally, that worked quite well for Tenkou and his plans later on. And of course every body know what happened to him during in the Kutoh palace.

But whatever the causes may have been, there's no denying the fact that he did orchestrated a lot of destruction during his time in the Kutoh army.

But does that make him an evil person or a utilitarian?

The anime does not give us too many insights on his character because they were too busy trying to show how single mindedly he worked towards his goal.But in the novel, I found some instances which make me think he was a utilitarian through and through.

For instance, during his early days as working under Gi Koyuu, there was a bit in the novel where a soldier came to inform him that his rival Eichuu had suffered a defeat. He didn't relish the news at all.

And ofc there were also the instances where he helped Soi when she was child.

Evil is never disciplined or restrained. And evil isn't part-time either. But of all the atrocities he had committed, there had been a purpose. Evil seldom requires a logical purpose.

In fact, I find it odd that he had sent other people to destroy Tamahome's family. Why would he do that? It could be since he was the Shogun, he easily delegated less important tasks. But at the same time, I wonder if he himself had gone, would he have been able to kill the children? I like to say no because , you know what, we are talking about a man here who entered into a life long schedule of vendetta because he himself was treated cruelly as a child.

I think, that his single mindedness and his passion for that one goal, made it very easy for him to control his emotions and appease his conscience. But I don't think that those emotions or conscience were absent altogether. Even though he is guilty of manipulating Yui ( by half truths, interestingly, would you say this was another thing he had consciously done? like not fed her totally made up lies? he could have gotten away with that) and nearly molesting Miaka.

2. What if he had a completely different childhood ( a happy and secure one) in the next life, how would that affect his general character?

That depends, on whether he retains his memories or not.

If he didn't retain his memories, then I have no clue what he was like as a person. Because the anime Nakago turned out the way he did solely based on circumstances. So we have no way to know what he would have been like if he were raised differently. Possibly a normal, unassuming person.Who knows.

But innocence is an abstract quantity. If he had his memories in the next life, I think he would become very jaded and cynical. But non-violent. There would be no driving force for him this time around to repeat his actions but if he knew ,from experience ( of any life), what people were capable of doing( including himself) he would be have a very distrustful outlook of life and he would possibly hate society all over again.

Or, he could accept that his reasoning and plan of action may have been a bit flawed before and he would, in order to survive, eventually forgive himself first and then develop a very forgiving nature ( not compassionate mind you). I say he would turn forgiving because he would have a better idea why some people do what they do.You know, you would definitely forgive in others, the faults that you know very well yourself, you are guilty of.

But some characterestics like his manipulative abilities, were innate. So, if he was born with it in the next life as well, I would think he would continue to be manipulative, but for normal things like getting a promotion etc etc. But even if he did develop that surprisingly forgiving nature, I would say he would still be jaded. Because people experiencing reality or its downside become as disillusioned as kids when they find out Santa Claus is actually their dad in a costume and wig. Its very hard to overlook that any more.

I kind of see him as a cynical intellectual type who knows how the world works and has made his peace with it.

3. If the reincarnated version were to ever return to the book world, what would his reactions be?

Apathetic, I think. He would probably hate being there at first because it wasnt his business any more. But I wonder if he would really save the book world if opportunity presented itself. I am not sure actually. By himself, he definitely would not, unless his own survival depended on it. But a romantic interlude perhaps? and this is why I find the Miakax Nakago pair fascinating xDD

Well what do you know this turned out to be a very long rant xDD sorry...but what do you think?

(P.S : I posted this in the Nakago thread as well, but even though it was certainly within the scope of that topic, I rather wanted to have that discussion here..hence the double post, please feel free to delete the other post)

1/28/2012 #56
KittyLynne

No worries...I'm going to leave the other post up, because it's related to both of these categories. I'll just reply to the reincarnation part of the discussion here. ^__^

2. What if he had a completely different childhood ( a happy and secure one) in the next life, how would that affect his general character?

"That depends, on whether he retains his memories or not."

That's what I think- not having those memories to deal with would mean he'd be able to start over, unencumbered by baggage . Retaining them would, at the very least, (when he was old enough to realize/understand why he had them) force him into some heavy introspection regarding his past actions. Hindsight is foresight- if he recalls his 'confession' to Tamahome in his final, dying moments, then he would realize the harm that he did and possibly seek to atone for those mistakes once given a second chance.

That's not to say I think he'd become a saintly type of person. If character traits are passed on from one life to the next, I would think he would indeed (as you said) be inclined to be a rather cynical intellectual.

I'm not sure I agree that his being manipulative is innate...I see that as being a characteristic that was developed because of circumstance and necessity. ^^

And you know, if he did remember who he had been, I'm thinking a reborn Nakago might be a pacifist...^^

1/29/2012 #57
Nile1283

Hello xD

Well here's an interesting point.

But can you be a cynic and a pacifist at the same time?

I completely agree with you that retaining his memories would call for some heavy introspection. and he would probably also understand the futility of violence and power in the face of justice.

But, at the same time, a complete pacifist? I was thinking he would probably be someone reluctant to get into war or violence in the first place but wouldn't shirk away from using force if the situation required it. It remains to be seen what kind of situation he would pick to use force in.

On top of that, Nakago had that ego problem. People with ego generally take their time to come down from their high pedestal for atonement.And we are talking about a person who fervently believed in his previous life that he deserved the revenge. But he would definitely not make the same mistakes twice.

As for what I said about his being innately manipulative; the thing is : most people don't use manipulation as a last resort to get out of very sticky situations. They use it when they can to get out of even the slightest of problems, just because they can.

If someone , who knows how to manipulate people, only does so because of circumstances and necessity like you said, I would say that , that person is extremely honest and guilty-conscious. Neither of them are traits I can associate with Nakago.

But I imagine he would be honest, but not idealistically so. His cynical side would probably stop him from being idealistic.

1/29/2012 #58
KittyLynne

But can you be a cynic and a pacifist at the same time?

Imho, yes. Reason being, you can have a pacifistic viewpoint but still be cynical about the chances of getting other people to share it. ^^

...most people don't use manipulation as a last resort to get out of very sticky situations. They use it when they can to get out of even the slightest of problems, just because they can.

Good point- developmental psychology theories all point to that certain age where children learn they can affect an outcome by 'bargaining' or not telling the truth, or shifting the blame. The older they get, the better they get at it. ^^

If someone who knows how to manipulate people, only does so because of circumstances and necessity like you said, I would say that , that person is extremely honest and guilty-conscious

I'm going to play devil's advocate here...why do you think they would be honest and/or have guilt?I'd be inclined to say that a person who has to manipulate out of necessity, circumstance and survival related reasons would feel entirely justified in doing what they're doing, like Nakago did...^^

I think Nakago was and would be capable of honesty. The thing is, what would be his motivation to be so?

1/29/2012 #59
Nile1283

I think I agree with you. But I guess, the word I was looking for is not quite pacifist but more along the lines of non-aggressionist. It also might be possible that he may retain some of the resentment he had felt against society. So, in that case, while he would understand the futility of violence himself, he would probably want to let other people find that out the hard way,just like he did.

why do you think they would be honest and/or have guilt?I'd be inclined to say that a person who has to manipulate out of necessity, circumstance and survival related reasons would feel entirely justified in doing what they're doing, like Nakago did...^^

Well, here's the thing. I think, growing up, he did not manipulate others out of necessity. When we put it that way, it looks like he already knew he could manipulate people like that and he utilized his power. Rather, necessity brought out his inner abilities to manipulate people. If he wasn't good at it, someone would have found out about it before long and would have taken appropriate measures against him. Because, I think, any body ,would like to get out of sticky circumstances by trying to turn the tables in their favor as much as they can right? But does everybody have the same level skills? (I should use a different term than 'skill' because it looks to me here like I am endorsing it as a quality). He had people fooled throughout his life since childhood. so, I kind of think he was gifted that way and it got better with age.

And to answer to your actual question, everyone who manipulates has already justified their actions( to themselves) to begin with. They wouldn't try to do something their own conscience wouldn't agree to. So they either try to appease or suppress their conscience before embarking on any kind of manipulating business.

Its like getting the driver's license xDD

But, I would call those people, who use manipulation as a last resort, honest,simply because they play fair and only resort to tricks when they see no other way opening.

On that note, probably Nakago started out honest as well. He justified his actions to himself in the beginning. But later, as the scope of his revenge increased, his moral values got eclipsed and I guess somewhere along the line, he even stopped trying to explain himself to himself.

You know how when sometimes we are so engrossed in finding out the answer to a question....after a while we forget what the original question was and then we just kind of meander off topic and then come to a dead end ( might be happening to me right now lol)

._. *blinks*

yup..just happened to me xDD

anyway, in the reincarnated form, I am also inclined to say that he would be capable of honesty.But he would, as you said, need a LOT of motivation for that honesty to surface and do some material good. Because that motivation would , I think, need to overcome the oceans of resentment and cynicism etc that he has inside of him to drag out his inner honesty for some philanthropic work.

Thats kind of the theme in the story I am currently working on. I made Miaka and her ... love... ( its a romance lol) the motivation that he would need ...but I guess that debate is for a different thread xD

1/29/2012 . Edited 1/29/2012 #60
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