Writers Anonymous
Writers, come in. Talk about your stories, problems, any advice you need, critique, etc. You don't have to be good, you just need to want to write! Fanfic or original fic writers, all are welcome. Read the rules before posting or risk Rhea's displeasure.
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The Lauderdale

What does an "Afrted" look like anyway?

Um... [papers rustle] "His hair was ashen blond and clung in tight curls to his head; his eyes were gray and forthright and, to Nevhithien, wholly disconcerting." Young, but old enough to have achieved his majority, ie. be independent of his parents.

And that's about it for Afrted. I killed him off rather quickly, I'm afraid. He was a very nice boy, outside of the unfortunate name.

6/11/2012 #391
Silver-hair Angel

Guys...I don't know if that petition was safe.

...What?

6/11/2012 #392
Corinne Tate

@ Kelvin,

Just because I don't actively hunt down rule breakers, does not mean I am sitting on the sidelines letting someone else do it, and letting someone else take the heat. To be perfectly honest, I do not care. It's not my job, and to put it in perspective, this is a site for people who read and write fan fiction. The only one making money, is the site owner who is getting advertising revenue. It's HIS job to enforce the rules.

NIMBY - had to look that one up. Not in my back yard; is that supposed to be your stand or mine? You might just ask yourself, if all those who are self-appointed in finding rules violations, suddenly quit, then what would happen? Would the site self-destruct? Or would the owner have to hire more admins to do the job? Or...maybe... people would just continue to read and write stories.

The thing is, you're so fond of pointing out the ToS and telling everyone how well it works, and yet you must not believe it, if you feel a civilian police force is necessary to shore up the site's weaknesses.

Since June first, there has been a huge influx of whining, complaining, flaming, accusing, and raging on this forum alone. I can only believe that the site has been dealing with even more of this than the forum. So... in trying to address a backlog of reported rules violations, it now has to deal with thousands of complaints and questions, by those affected both directly and indirectly. I would imagine it's like trying to kill a few aggressive hornets, and having the whole nest come after you.

Again, I don't see how going after the rule breakers in a self-appointed manner helps anyone. It hasn't made the site a very friendly place.

6/11/2012 #393
Silver-hair Angel

Again, I don't see how going after the rule breakers in a self-appointed manner helps anyone. It hasn't made the site a very friendly place.

With all due respect, Corinne, I feel that if the FFN admins did not want us to assist them in keeping the site minimally free of rule-breaking stories, then the option to "report abuse" would not be available to us.

I do understand your point, though, and I find myself agreeing; purposely hunting down stories paints the process in a negative light. It makes it feel... almost...antagonistic. I've personally reported two stories thus far in 2012. I do not plan on reporting anymore. I stumbled upon those two by accident, found that they were in obvious violation, reported it, and left it alone. I didn't bother to check what happened to those stories. In my perspective, I did the minimum of what the admins probably wants us to do-- help keep this site in compliance. Anything else would be overkill for me.

I don't mind that others seek out stories that violate the Writing Guidelines. If they have the time and they have good intentions, then that's their right and all the power to them. I think when it becomes overbearing for me is when the language in the reviews become too abusive or too vitriolic. And I haven't had much proof of anyone bullying any authors or harassing and constantly reporting a story as abuse. I've heard speculation, yes.

6/11/2012 #394
Merlyn Pyndragon

Guys...I don't know if that petition was safe.

(Silver-hair Angel) ...What?

I don't mean to start a panic, but my computer started acting weird after I signed the petition. It keeps glitching about internet access. Plus just a while ago I got this strange link in my favourites barthat I hadn't putleading to some facebook thing. We don't have facebook! Fortunately my computer glitched out at the moment that I tried to look at it (which I shouldn't have even tried to do) and so I just got rid of it.

What if they were right? What if it's spam? Anyone else get these issues? Pray it just be me, for your sakes.

6/11/2012 #395
Silver-hair Angel

I don't mean to start a panic, but my computer started acting weird after I signed the petition. It keeps glitching about internet access. Plus just a while ago I got this strange link in my favourites barthat I hadn't putleading to some facebook thing. We don't have facebook! Fortunately my computer glitched out at the moment that I tried to look at it (which I shouldn't have even tried to do) and so I just got rid of it.

The petition on change.org, or...?

Being honest, I don't know if it's the petition or not. Some malicious soul out there could have copied one of the main ones and spread some adware or something in the process, but it may just be that your computer needs to be scanned for adware or spyware.

I wouldn't worry too much; do you have anti-virus software?

6/11/2012 #396
Corinne Tate

Angel, I have seen some stories on hit lists, with critics urging "kill it, kill it dead!" Granted there was reason for the negative response, but to me it looked like they were becoming the very thing they despised. I think there could be a bit of a superiority complex at work in the minds of some.

I think the Report Abuse option is a good one, and maybe I've been remiss in not using it. But I've looked at some of the stories that break the rules, and there are often many readers who profess to love them. If it's just bad because the writer is young, then I'll usually just leave it alone. I don't think it's my place to enforce quality control. To me, abuse is a more serious issue.

I've only seen one story that was abusive to me, and it wasn't in my fandom and it was likely reported multiple times. It was a so-called Christian writer, using the platform of the story to preach hatred. Instead of reporting the fic, I PM'd the writer and told them what was wrong with what they were doing. I have not checked to see if it still exists.

6/11/2012 #397
Merlyn Pyndragon

The petition on change.org, or...?

Being honest, I don't know if it's the petition or not. Some malicious soul out there could have copied one of the main ones and spread some adware or something in the process, but it may just be that your computer needs to be scanned for adware or spyware.

I wouldn't worry too much; do you have anti-virus software?

Son of a hamster, I don't even know! Whenever a benevolent genius comes up with new protective software, some loser in his mother's basement is coming up with an even more powerful virus to harsh everyone's mellow and ruin their livelihoods.

Just before I tried writing this my computer glitched again! The petition was on change.org, but...Twice I've gotten viruses from looking at pictures on google. PICTURES! Nowhere is safe! Whatever anti-virus software we have is the shites. But thank you for the reassurence.

Again, anyone else have odd things happening?

6/11/2012 #398
JbstormburstADV

Nope, so I'm gonna guess now that you recently got phished.

6/11/2012 #399
Senior Swag

Yo ho! What I miss?!? :P

6/11/2012 #400
Cattenlent

There is a point people keep making and it does not quite sit well with me. I, of course, understand that this site belongs to someone, therefore he holds the rights (legally) to do whatever he wants with it. On the other hand, contents of this site are precious works of people, people who have spent a lot of time, tears and sweat over their stories, those stories which are helping owner to make money. In that case isn't a comprimise or an attempt of it is at least necessesary morally? Of course this is only my idea, but i have just seen so many comments indicating that those who do not agree with curent guideliness should "love it, or leave it"

Why? It is appearant that many people are unhappy with the situation, why should not they try to change it? There are mentioned solutions to mentioned dilemma of having M/A rated stories on here. Orchestrating a protesto very well may be the catalyser for a better system.

Since when it is bad to question rules and demand more? Most of our civil rights have been secured by just doing that.

6/11/2012 #401
Merlyn Pyndragon

There is a point people keep making and it does not quite sit well with me. I, of course, understand that this site belongs to someone, therefore he holds the rights (legally) to do whatever he wants with it. On the other hand, contents of this site are precious works of people, people who have spent a lot of time, tears and sweat over their stories, those stories which are helping owner to make money. In that case isn't a comprimise or an attempt of it is at least necessesary morally? Of course this is only my idea, but i have just seen so many comments indicating that those who do not agree with curent guideliness should "love it, or leave it"

Why? It is appearant that many people are unhappy with the situation, why should not they try to change it? There are mentioned solutions to mentioned dilemma of having M/A rated stories on here. Orchestrating a protesto very well may be the catalyser for a better system.

Since when it is bad to question rules and demand more? Most of our civil rights have been secured by just doing that.

I bow to you.

6/11/2012 . Edited 6/11/2012 #402
quwelli

I don't think most people (here) are saying you can't question, or express disagreement with site rules, and all that good stuff. However, I question that this is an effective place to do it. I very much doubt the site admins or site mods are seeing your posts here. This forum was made to discuss fan fiction writing. People here are pretty ordinary rank and file on ff.net. So, threads like this become airings and nothing more--and that you've been pointed to this thread is somewhat a waste of your time and energy. A more effective strategy would be to send the messages to the people with the power. It's kind of like being mad at City Hall, but picketing the playground.

6/11/2012 #403
Cattenlent

Oh, but i think conversing among ourselves is an important step, no? Now we all know more than we did 9 pages before and hopefully understand each others viewpoints better too. It also seems to me that this thread has become the place where people share their opinions about subject.

6/11/2012 #404
Birdy Main

Why not talk about it? XD It's where all great ideas start.

6/11/2012 #405
pyrrhicvictoly

Just before I tried writing this my computer glitched again! The petition was on change.org, but...Twice I've gotten viruses from looking at pictures on google. PICTURES! Nowhere is safe! Whatever anti-virus software we have is the shites. But thank you for the reassurence.

Again, anyone else have odd things happening?

I didn't sign the petition, but I looked at the page. Nothing weird happened to me. I don't think it was change.org that spread the virus - it might have been an infection that was just lurking around on your machine and decided that now was a jolly fine time to pop up and annoy you to death. Yeah... These days, just having one basic anti-virus program isn't enough.

Dunno about getting viruses from looking at pictures on Google... Do you think it's possible that your browser is being hijacked? Like, are you being redirected to weird sites that you didn't want to go to through Google searches? Or is your address bar showing unnaturally long URLS to every site you visit? If so... I'm not a computer expert or anything, but I've had good results with Malwarebytes and TDSSKiller, so I would recommend downloading those.

Oh, but i think conversing among ourselves is an important step, no?

True, but the ones who need to hear this the most aren't here. Those who are panicking are still, IDK, out there spreading their chain PMs and panicking. The petition is still up; still as misleading as ever. I sympathize with the desire to want to have all your favorite fics available in one convenient site. If they were to re-allow MA materials with an age filter or on a separate sub-domain or whatever, I would welcome the change. But that's not what people are saying; that's not what they're petitioning for. They're saying, "OMG NAZIS DELETE MAH FAV FIC CENSORSHIP CENSORSHIP FIRST AMENDMENT CENSORSHIP NAZIS NAZIS NAZIS". *infinite facepalm* That's not helping anyone's cause.

Maybe if it's a topic that enough people feel strongly about, they should get together and make some reasonable proposals for the admins. They could draft out what they would like to see, vote on it in a democratic fashion or something, and just put together a nice, logical solution that the majority would find satisfying. Someone should go off and form that group, and maybe then come tell us about it.

6/11/2012 #406
JbstormburstADV

And yet, the admins don't help or even contribute to a dialogue of the issues that the site faces at hand. This may be the most recent example, but those in the know all realize that the decision to remove the ability to delete signed reviews has met a constant level of criticism, and as we learned from the LU incident, that move really wasn't thought out since user abuse reports have hardly been acted upon. All in all, a circle of perpetual frustration in the perspective of the general audience that will only end badly if the administration stays neutrally apart from these conflicts.

6/11/2012 #407
Ifab1ndiya

that move really wasn't thought out since user abuse reports have hardly been acted upon.

The user reports aren't dependent on reporting reviews, which just deletes reviews. You can still email the admins; but regardless, reports are hardly acted on

I've tried some petitions on the forums, and I've seen many. The admin never reply to any of them. It's useless. IDK why people who are frustrated with this site still put up with it. I suggest people migrate to AO3 or Yourfanfiction, and increase the traffic there(that's the benefit of this site right?)? Everything is orderly, and suggestions are taken into account there.

It's more effective than signing some random petitions that can infect your computers with viruses, and continuing to give revenue to a site that disappointed you/didn't do much to help you/erased your hard work. *Shrugs* it's just me, but I've stopped posting stories on this site for awhile.

I can get who wants invites 1. I know how to suck up on AO3, so I got a few invites from them.

If the admin stay neutrally distanced, many people will quit on fanfiction and leave. While the others, split almost neatly in half, will cling to these rules like the commandments.

6/11/2012 . Edited 6/11/2012 #408
cathrl

contents of this site are precious works of people

Not if those people have any sense. They're copies of precious works of people. This isn't an art museum full of irreplaceable originals. It's a display of prints.

Discussing how the site might be changed is fine. It's demanding that it's changed to suit your taste, and insisting that it's wrong that it hasn't been, that's unreasonable.

And which of your civil rights involve being able to behave in a certain way on someone else's property, when he doesn't want you to? It was my understanding that in the US at least the property owner has the absolute right to remove you from his property, by force if he chooses. Seems to me that's much more akin to having a rule-violating story deleted.

Edit:

I can get who wants invites 1. I know how to suck up on AO3, so I got a few invites from them.

One of the things I like most about this site is that sucking up not only isn't required, it's impossible. I can't stand cliques.

6/11/2012 . Edited 6/11/2012 #409
Birdy Main

Suck up for invites? O.o I only asked one person for an invite. Plus AO3 is still in Beta testing. XD I doubt they could handle everyone storming onto the site.

6/11/2012 #410
cathrl

Your term, not mine.

6/11/2012 #411
Ifab1ndiya

One of the things I like most about this site is that sucking up not only isn't required, it's impossible. I can't stand cliques.

I highly doubt that. And AO3 probably really gave them to me because I had a sincere tone& they put no limits on them as far as I know. Any site running that smoothly on donations they barely get doesn't look cliquish to me. But kudos for you for finding a good thing about this site.

Suck up for invites? O.o I only asked one person for an invite. Plus AO3 is still in Beta testing. XD I doubt they could handle everyone storming onto the site. I can't stand cliques.

More like sincere, good willed(to their site), flattery. But they would've given them to me anyways.

Yeah, I know, but you never know, some people out of more people streaming in might be charitable enough to donate(I still think the should switch to ads & age verifications for reading & posting E fics, and I told them so). I've only invited a few so far, and 2 haven't used theirs. The 3rd is also going to another site. Me too, I like equal treatment.

6/12/2012 . Edited 6/12/2012 #412
pyrrhicvictoly

I've tried some petitions on the forums, and I've seen many. The admin never reply to any of them. It's useless. IDK why people who are frustrated with this site still put up with it. I suggest people migrate to AO3 or Yourfanfiction, and increase the traffic there(that's the benefit of this site right?)? Everything is orderly, and suggestions are taken into account there.

But that would be a rational thing to do, and god knows that the internet doesn't do reason. It's so much more fun to spew verbal diarrhea about Nazis whenever things don't go your way. XD

There are definitely some communications problems between site users and admin. Then again, I don't think I've ever seen a forum petition that was well-organized enough to gain any real attention. It'll probably be a lot of work to get their attention, and it'll require someone with a clear head for business matters, as well as some dedicated supporters willing to spread the word and win people over to their cause. I've done a bit of campaigning with non-profit environmental protection groups, and that's just how things work. When you're the little guy, the big shots don't listen to you unless you speak to them in their language (profits, site traffic, ad revenue), and you've got to prove that you have the power of the people behind you to make their life hell if they don't listen. On the other hand, you've also got to make sure that your cause is something that most people can get behind - y'know, to actually have that power to lord over the baddies. If they can poke holes in any of your arguments, you're screwed. So it's like being the filling in a crap sandwich, and it isn't fun. It's work and it requires real dedication to force changes upon reluctant businesses.

...That's why it's totally understandable that no one's up for the task. Really, it's just so much easier to shout, make demands, and put up emotional appeals with no factual information. Having both the passion to go through with the cause AND the ability to find strategic ways to make it happen is rare. (This is kind of a- okay, a really really really super-puny cause, too. There's so much better stuff to do than to waste time getting a movement off the ground for this.)

In the meantime, you're absolutely right. That level of dissatisfaction = move to another site.

6/12/2012 #413
Lord Kelvin

those in the know all realize that the decision to remove the ability to delete signed reviews has met a constant level of criticism

Huh? What did I miss? I don't remember being able to delete signed reviews ever.

will only end badly if the administration stays neutrally apart from these conflicts.

Everyone is frustrated if the admin doesn't take their side. FFN's doing a wise thing in this case. And may it be known to you that it is the users themselves who turned this level of communication the most efficient one. FFN admins used to chat more, a lot more.

That level of dissatisfaction = move to another site.

Do research some things about the website. Chances are, you'll be moving into an unknown with little knowledge about its strengths and weaknesses. Goes double if the site is new and you have no idea who pays the costs.

6/12/2012 . Edited 6/12/2012 #414
Ifab1ndiya

Well people like to make a noise. The only good thing is the admin might notice, panic about losing traffic, and do something like address some issues atleast.

Yeah there is, the admin act like they're not there. Like this lady I saw at Home Depot or Lowes with a workers vest with the logo that said "I don't work here" when my mom asked her a question. The users, who generate revenue, have a right to demand support from the site for some things.

Yes, it won't work. Yeah grassroot organizations need a lot of manpower, things they can bring to the table, and power to effect the baddies esp their buisness. Yeah and an airtight case the baddies can't poke holes into. Defense is the best offense. It's easier to poke holes into their arguments.

Yeah it's not worth the effort, even for the most dedicated fanfiction writer who might be thinking of being a writer. Esp since it's fanfiction, and we're playing with copyrights. Well, I've seen factual information here, but no one has the power to change anything. FFN has its own interests, and it's rare to even answer any concerns that's not plain harassment/inconvenience, even of its revenue generating, users unless they fear a loss in profit. And if they're not facing any legal trouble.

It's not any human rights, environmental cause, or anything effecting anything enough that morally obligates them to look past their business interests. People can leave to other places if they feel they've been treated terribly. It's not worth the effort(better spent on causes in more important places than a private site)of all this when you can simply leave, nor is it worth investing in if you have to do all this for something a little better.

Thanks. Yeah, it was easier for me. And if you're dissatisfied, you might feel better if you don't give them revenue. ;) Atleast if you want to stick it to the man!

6/12/2012 #415
Birdy Main

Well people like to make a noise. The only good thing is the admin might notice, panic about losing traffic, and do something like address some issues atleast.Lol. Sorry had to comment. XD FF is a pay free site, no one is making money off it. The only people being paid is the hosting bills by ads. They aren't gonna panic about losing people at all. That's just silly to even mention. Do we really need to go over the legality of that again?

6/12/2012 . Edited 6/12/2012 #416
Lord Kelvin

They aren't gonna panic about losing people at all.

They will be concerned if that reduces ad revenue, yes. Then again, have a look at some of the mature stories. Do you see any ads there?

6/12/2012 #417
Ifab1ndiya

No one gives you anything for free. They generate revenu when we click on the ads or maybe just the page with ads, I don't really know the details.

Edit: There aren't? Some ads could fit there. Interesting.

6/12/2012 . Edited 6/12/2012 #418
Birdy Main

No one? XD If that was true then FF wouldn't even be a site. You can't tell me you don't get enjoyment from being on here reading fanfics? Those are free. The owner definitely isn't getting anything out of this. And yet the site is up and running.

And it depends on the ad. Some are for click and others are for clicking on a place after the ad, and some you actually have to buy something and that transmutes.

6/12/2012 . Edited 6/12/2012 #419
April Dawn Irene

Cattenlent said, "On the other hand, contents of this site are precious works of people, people who have spent a lot of time, tears and sweat over their stories..."

If the writers who lost their work really cared that much about their work, then they ought to have backed it up somewhere. Perhaps on a Flash Drive, CD/DVD/BluRayDisc, External/Internal Storage Drive, SD Card, Floppy Disk, Cloud Based Storage, Friend's computer, etc. If it's gone now, because they didn't back it up, too bad, so sad, go cry me a waterfall. There is nothing I can do or say to change the fact that their work is gone, and perhaps it ought to be a lesson to them about taking care of what they care about.

That they didn't, only solidifies the notion that they probably weren't thinking to begin with and might have made other mistakes, such as breaking certain rules, like the one about not having coarse language in the summary. I saw a great many examples of this on a certain link provided by somebody who was pushing the issue like a certain toad-like woman in a certain Harry Potter book, pushed certain notions about certain things and drove everyone absolutely crazy.

6/12/2012 #420
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