The Barricade
Adore the Amis, rage against the government, after all, what's a barricade for? A place for meaningful coversations as well as pointless drabble, all in adoring of our favorite revolutionary French boys.
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Shekiah Rosay
We'd already discussed this a ton in the "Who Cried?" thread, so I decided since I'm (supposedly) moderating I'll just add a new topic. ^^ Now we can talk about Javert/Eponine, Eponine/Enjolras, Fantine/Javert, Fantine/JVJ and all the other awesomecool pairings. Yay. :D
10/18/2007 #1
NothingToulouse
I'm quite fond of Marius/Cosette to be completely honest. ... ... Yeah. Other than that... I haven't written any, but I absolutely adore the idea Montparnasse/Cosette and I like Montparnasse/Eponine, as long as they stay dark and IC. So, puh-lease not any "ZOMG romantic!MontyxEppieSue" sort of fics. Baah. Pairings I loathe... Enjolras/prettymuchanyone, but first and foremost: Enjolras/Eponine (gives me the creeps) Marius/Eponine And, um, yeah. I know these forums are dead (like, drowned-in-Seine-and-shot-behind-a-Billiard-table-dead). Pity.
3/22/2008 #2
BroadwayGeek24601

I love GrantaireEponine, I've only seen it in two fics, but I just find it very cute.

MariusCosette is one of my favorites too, but I HATEHATEHATE EnjyR fics. Yurgh...

5/25/2008 #3
PhantomInspector

I like Valjean/Fantine and Javert/Fantine (IC, or at least believable), but Valjean/Javert is my guilty pleasure. *hangs head* Cosette/Montparnasse intrigues me, although I'd like to see more fics of it in order to decide if I really like it or not. Cosette/Marius is okay, but I don't really read it much. Hmmm, mild/implied Enjy/R is okay. I usually steer clear of most things Eponine/anyone. Sad, yes, but there it is. It's just so easy for it to turn EppieSue/somepoorbloke.

6/8/2008 #4
AndersWasRight

My sin is the same. Oh, JVJ/Javert... *Jo melts* Hatred-love. Always. And the lawr is inside-out, mehhh.

I also would like some Enjy/Parnasse. They are both so beautiful. But I don't like EnjyR. R loves Enjy, that's totally canon, but Enjy ignores R and I can't see Enjy having sex w/ anyone.

In a parody, of course, we can have EnjyR.

7/22/2008 #5
BroadwayGeek24601

(sorry if I sound argumentative, I don't mean to sound that way so please take no offense :D) I disagree with R's love interest being canon...in the book Victor Hugo compares them to Orestes and Pylades constantly. The story of those two revolves around them being brothers, and Pylades just being desperate for approval while Orestes (aka Enjy) can't stand him. Also, a man loving another man was unheard of back then, and the idea hadn't even sprung up yet (as far as I know). Hero worship, idolization, maybe, but I just doubt it was love. lol I'll shut up now :D

7/22/2008 #6
I Brake For Bishounen Boys

Definitely. People these days mistake genuine care and intimate affection between two guys as homosexuality way too often. It happens all the time betwen girls, and we all know that that not all females are lesbians. Society just lets girls express their emotions for other girls more openly, and society puts pressure on boys to keep their relationships very macho and crap like that. That's how it is for Grantaire.

7/22/2008 . Edited 7/22/2008 #7
I Brake For Bishounen Boys

Or at least that's my take on it. It certainly never stops me from writing and reading EnjyR fics. I'm such a hypocrite. Sigh.

7/22/2008 #8
BroadwayGeek24601

Exactly! Ah, poor 'Taire XD

7/22/2008 #9
I Brake For Bishounen Boys

Yay! Someone agrees with my point of view! I think that if Enjolras absolutely has to be paired with someone, then it's Combeferre. But it's weird to think of Enjolras attached to anyone. He's already married to Patria (metaphors. O god).

7/22/2008 #10
PhantomInspector

I'm pretty sure the issue existed in those times. In fact, the Napoleonic code made homosexual relations legal as long as they remained out of the public eye. Not that that prevented homosexuals from being persecuted. Obviously homosexuality was not a very popular topic in that day's literature, but it did occur. Take Balzac's Vautrin, for instance. According to sources who I assume have read the novels (I have not, unfortunately), it is quite clear that Vautrin is a homosexual, and it is often reflected in his relationships with other male characters, even though they remain platonic. And these books were published several years before Les Miserables.

7/22/2008 #11
I Brake For Bishounen Boys

Now I'm really curious. I've never read Balzac before. I'm going to find that book somewhere in the library down the road. Excuse me.

7/22/2008 #12
BroadwayGeek24601

That is a good point. However, as IBrakeforBishounenBoys said, male relationships tended to be closer than today's society. For example, a guy could call another 'dear', and it would be completely normal. And the word 'love' was slightly more flexible then too, i.e. in the Les Mis text "he loved, venerated Enjolras". I would consider it to be like a 5 year old kid worshipping his older brother. Well, that's a bad example, but ya get my point :D

7/22/2008 #13
I Brake For Bishounen Boys

Heh. I sent my brother to do it. The libarian will wonder what he wants to do with Balzac. And I agree with broadwaygeek24601. Brotherly and worshipful love. I bet Grantaire was an only child.

7/22/2008 #14
PhantomInspector

*nods* Yeah, I agree with you there, I was just saying that people seem to have the impression that modern issues like homosexuality didn't exist in those times. Human nature really hasn't changed a whole lot since the olden days. It's more culture and society that change.

What Grantaire feels for Enjolras in the strictest canonical sense is probably just as you say, but it's still fun to fantasy otherwise. As long as people are still relatively in character. X) I usually imagine it as being one-sided.

7/31/2008 #15
Subia Jasmine

Joining a little late, I know...

Ok, I feel like an idiot for asking, but why is Grantaire nicknamed Capital R? Is it just a shortening of his name or is there another reason I'm missing? Back on topic...

Honestly, I think any number of the barricade boys might feel something for Enjolras. He is their leader and, at least in book canon, completely untouchable. His passion for his cause is infectious. I can imagine Grantaire feeling some unrequited love for Enjolras because he wants to share his passion, and finds he can't (at least, not until the bitter end).

Other pairings: Enjolras/Eponine (I know, Enjolras has no sex drive in the book, but I like him better than Marius), Eponine/Montparnasse (dubcon), Montparnasse/Cosette (dubon), unrequited Grantaire/Enjolras, platonic JVJ/Fantine, probably others...

8/20/2008 #16
I Brake For Bishounen Boys

He's called Big R because his name sounds like the French word for capital R, or big R- Grand R. R would be pronounced like 'air'.

8/21/2008 . Edited 9/28/2008 #17
PhantomInspector

Oh my goodness, I never got that till now. And I took bloody French, too! (Well, only for one semester, but still.) *bonks self on head*

8/23/2008 #18
I Brake For Bishounen Boys

Glad I could be of service.

8/23/2008 #19
Lost-Blue-Phantom

I know this thread has been long dead, but I'd like to try and jumpstart it a little bit.

I like EnjolrasxEponine, but only if it's like the afterlife or something to that effect.

Unrequited EponinexMarius. That's fun stuff to watch and write about, even though it's sad.

CosettexMarius. They're cute. 'nuff said.

And I've never really shipped any other pairing. I also haven't read the book yet, but when I do, I'll edit this post.

6/14/2009 #20
Histoire de le Coeur

Cosette and Marius would've been a great couple. Then there's Eponine, who we all begin to feel bad for and want her to end up with Marius. I admit I do too. But I also think that the Eponine/Enjolras pairing isn't too far off. I mean, if they'd met maybe Enjolras would rethink his whole "No thanks, I'd rather die a virgin" beliefs. I mean, that's like throwing away perfectly good food or clothes. It's a waste and just plain wrong. No slash for me, sorry to all those strong believers in it.

7/7/2009 #21
Histoire de le Coeur

Cosette and Marius would've been a great couple. Then there's Eponine, who we all begin to feel bad for and want her to end up with Marius. I admit I do too. But I also think that the Eponine/Enjolras pairing isn't too far off. I mean, if they'd met maybe Enjolras would rethink his whole "No thanks, I'd rather die a virgin" beliefs. I mean, that's like throwing away perfectly good food or clothes. It's a waste and just plain wrong. No slash for me, sorry to all those strong believers in it.

7/7/2009 #22
Scooter12345

I'm very shameful but I LOVE Eponine/Enjolras, Fantine/Javert if they are written well which sadly I'm incapable of doing. I do have a tendency to do AU's in which there are sex changes so parings that I love based SOLEY on personality are:

R/Enjolras (because I have a line that fit's them perfectally) "The cynic's belief is the strongest belief of all," The Last Revolution, Erika Destler, Aceline.

Javvie/Valjean (because who wouldn't want to see them reconcile their differenes)

1/5/2010 #23
LeftFanFicttttion

I for one am waiting on my mother to play the libary fine so I can read the book!!! but I watched the 1998 movie and fell in love. I know eponia. (spelling?) wasent really in it but i for one LOVE Javert!! I mean come on! he is AWESOME. I like the pairing of Cosette and Javert. dont hurt me!! I was like making up Pairings in my mind as I was watching the film hahaha!. I loved it. I cant wait to read the book, and maybe one day make my own movie. a really good one. THE BEST one.

1/6/2010 #24
Scooter12345

I do love Javert as well, I think it might be cute if you didn't have Valjean in your way. You do that make that film but only if I can play Fantine okay.

1/6/2010 #25
Orestes Fasting

Not to drag up an old debate, but I'm firmly of the belief that there is deliberate homoerotic subtext in Hugo's descriptions of Enjolras and Grantaire.

1. The majority of the 'pairs' they are compared to were lovers or often represented as such: Orestes and Pylades, Achilles and Patroclus, Nisus and Euryalus, Alexander and Hephaestion. Dubreuil and Pechméja are a modern example and not a classical one; it's known that they had a close romantic friendship, but not whether they were lovers. Enjolras is also compared to Antinous (lover of the emperor Hadrian) and Harmodius and Aristogeiton. The common thread running through all of these allusions is that they are all comrades as well as lovers and have a higher cause; they are joined, but not devoted solely to each other. If Hugo had wanted that, there are other allusions he could've dredged up--Hyacinthus, Ganymede... Antinous would probably fall into this category, but Hugo qualifies Enjolras as a 'savage' Antinous, suggesting he has better things to do than hang around being divinely pretty all the time.

2. Classical allusions were a pretty common way to hint at the 'forbidden' topic of homosexuality in literature, especially when referring to a deeper bond and not just prison sex or buggering molly boys in the Tuileries. Byron used the Orestes/Pylades and Achilles/Patroclus references in his letters when writing about his boyfriends; Dumas uses the female versions (Diana, Sappho, etc) to foreshadow Eugenie Danglars' running off with her singing-mistress in The Count of Monte Cristo. It was a literary convention.

3. The "deeper bond"/romantic friendship trope was pretty common; there are Serious Business academic debates on how much homoeroticism can be read into it, how well it matches up with the modern notion of homosexuality, etc. "They don't need gay sex to be soulmates" vs. "Is it still gay if they're soulmates without physical attraction?" vs. "The author just wasn't allowed to write about gay sex, of course they were doing it offscreen." In the case of Enjolras and Grantaire, I'd argue that there is an erotic undercurrent just because Hugo is always on about how beautiful Enjolras is, often with very feminine descriptions attached--another way to hint that your character might be part of the 'third sex.' However, they clearly weren't doing it, since Hugo denies them any sort of bonding until the very moment they both get shot. The hand clasp is the only union they get, whether you want to interpret that union as platonic, as romantic friendship, or as a 'that's what she said' metaphor for something that wouldn't have got past the censor.

4. Which isn't to say that Grantaire had a big ol' gay crush on Enjolras, because even the most homoerotic romantic friendship doesn't map clearly to today's notions of 'gay,' and Hugo is pretty clear that even Grantaire himself isn't sure of the nature of his attachment to Enjolras. But it's in the same ballpark. "It was all completely platonic!" is just as hard to defend as "They were totally doing it."

1/10/2010 #26
Scooter12345

Thank you I like them as tight friends and unsure of each other better than OMG lets kiss and have sex!

1/10/2010 #27
Histoire de le Coeur

I do have to agree with you guys on that one. But strictly with Grantaire. I don't like Enjolras being portrayed as a little revolutionary s*** that sleeps with all the Amis, 'cause that's just sooo canon.

Ok, I'm still reading 'The Count of Monte Cristo', but even *I* could guess that Eugenie does that. It's so obvious, I mean Andrea, though vain is hot. :)

1/11/2010 #28
Scooter12345

THANK YOU!

1/11/2010 #29
Orestes Fasting

Ok, I'm still reading 'The Count of Monte Cristo', but even *I* could guess that Eugenie does that. It's so obvious, I mean Andrea, though vain is hot. :)

Oh no, she doesn't run off with Andrea! Don't want to spoil too much, but Dumas spends practically all their scenes together establishing that Eugénie despises him, isn't interested in men, and thinks women are pretty. It's her (female) voice teacher she runs off with in the end.

And I can't see Enjolras and Grantaire as "tight friends." Like I said, any union they have can only happen at the moment of their deaths. There are very few ways to give them any other kind of bonding in fanfiction without taking away from the power of that final moment. In the other post I used the term "romantic friendship" to describe ambiguously gay literary soulmates, but I wouldn't call them friends.

They spend most of the plot being drawn to each other but never joined. Grantaire's attraction to Enjolras is obvious and explicit in the text; I like to think, though of course this is arguable, that Enjolras is also drawn to Grantaire, but refuses to act on it because he has no respect for Grantaire and can't justify accepting him. Slash fic often implicitly condemns him for this--for deciding that his personal standards and ideals override any attraction he might feel--but Enjolras is all about ideals, and the book itself backs him up on this: their last moments are so magnificent precisely because Grantaire raises himself to Enjolras' level and their reconciliation happens on Enjolras' terms.

(And yes, I do think Enjolras was drawn to Grantaire as well. He kept giving him second chances when any sane person would give him up as a lost cause. It's as though he wanted Grantaire to be worthy of him, and Grantaire kept on failing him until the very end.)

In the book all the attraction is not necessarily sexual, but of the "ambiguously homoerotic soulmates" variety. Of course in fanfiction this translates most easily into slash, because romantic friendship is a very 18th/19th century idea and resurrecting dead literary tropes is a risky proposition. So I guess what I'm getting at is that E & R aren't precisely slashy in the book, but they're something quite close to it and slash is the easiest way to express that in fanfiction. It's not 100% accurate, no, but there's always a disconnect between the characters as they're presented in the book and the characters as they're represented in fanfiction. "Enjolras and Grantaire are gay" is no more or less inaccurate than "Eponine has some sort of bipolar disorder" or "Courfeyrac is the 1830s equivalent of a frat boy." It's a modern concept used to explain and give meaning to the behavior of highly symbolic 19th century literary characters who behave according to 19th century ideas.

1/12/2010 #30
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