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Nonamenonamenonameplease

Rkerekes13 had some matters to discuss that involved, well, sticking up for the character Lucy. I understand that she's his favorite character, but I also understand that there is no excuse for her abuse towards others (and she isn't the only guilty party, but that's another story). And I don't always follow this myself, nor am I Muslim or anything, but I think Malcolm X said it best:"You can't be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or who says it." In short, here are my two bits about Rkerekes13's claims concerning Lucy:

1. Lucy may be selfish, bossy, and crabby in almost all of her appearances, but deep down, I'm quite certain that she has a heart of gold and is willing to do anything to help, even if it means fixing the damage that she's done.

Does that include realizing that feminism is about eliminating female oppression instead of simply dumping it on males, regardless what Rule of Funny or Creator's Word states? "There is nothing funny about a little boy being mean to a little girl. That is simply not funny! But there is something funny about a little girl being able to be mean to a little boy." No, Mr. Schulz. Just, no. Laugh at these, why don't you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFAd4YdQks

"Oh, but they're at an age where they think their gender is superior to the other." Given what I've read, watched, and learned over the years, I'm convinced that that's exactly what Hollywood wants us to think. Folks like Susan Anthony and Alice Paul couldn't've pleaded for fairness towards females just so girls could pick on boys. In fact, I heard that when the police didn't want to send Susan Anthony to jail just because they thought women didn't belong in jail, she demanded that they send her there like any man anyway. Special treatment, much, Peanuts girls?

2. Lucy is a saint compared to the character Sam Puckett from iCarly. If you ask me, Sam's abuse on Freddie and others is far worse than Lucy's abuse on Charlie Brown and others, which goes to show that, as far as I'm concerned, Lucy means quite well through her actions and actually does have a concience. (Although it's safe to assume that Sam has a concience, too.)

I've neither really looked at iCarly nor have any intentions of doing such, so no comment there.

3. As far as I'm concerned, she's not the only source of Charlie Brown's misery. For those of you who haven't watched or even read enough of the Peanuts, there are times when Charlie Brown himself is the source of his own misery. If you don't believe me, I encourage you to watch/read some for yourself.

Very good point. Now I present the following theory from tvtropes.org:

Charlie Brown instigated the hate the other characters often showed toward him.--In the early years of the strip, Charlie Brown was considerably more of a free spirit, and often ticked people off in a childish, mostly innocent kind of way (playing pranks, etc). This resulted in many of the other characters showing contempt for him from then on as a result (losing ball games aside). Then again, that'd be disproportionate retribution on the part of the other characters, so they'd still be jerks.

Second, while that may have been the case for much of the strip (yes, I admit it), I only know of three Peanuts cartoons that acknowledge this: You're The Greatest, CB; Snoopy's Reunion; and Peanuts Motion Comics: Dear Santa. Third, does it excuse Shermy for saying in the first strip without provocation that he hated Charlie? Does it excuse original Patty giving Charlie a black eye in the second strip?

Everyone claiming to know Charlie thinks he's wishy-washy and a blockhead who's being so stubborn just because he can't even talk to the LRHG, much less date her; complains too much about his life's misery; takes a strange pleasure in his misery; and overall can't do anything right. But have they looked at themselves (and I mean without slipping back into their old habits)? Have they listened to themselves? At this point, I really believe that Charlie indeed wants to move beyond his current position in life but that nobody has any intentions of letting him. It's written all over their faces. For all his "poor storywriting", it's like Dakari-King Mykan said about Daisuke Motomiya from Digimon and Beast Boy from Teen Titans: They're imperfect and have feelings that can be broken. So too does Charlie.

4. According to the late Charles Schultz (may he rest in peace), the whole recurring football gag is all about Charlie Brown's perpetual optimism instead of Lucy being mean. Speaking of which, I know Lucy couldn't resist publicly humiliating Charlie Brown with the football trick in "It's Your First Kiss, Charlie Brown" which resulted in Charlie Brown's team losing the game and Charlie Brown getting blamed instead of Lucy, but I think it's because Lucy let those trickery instincts overpower her better judgement, for whatever reasons I have yet to know. Furthermore, I think we can let it slide because she apparently hasn't pulled such a stunt to make her team lose a game again, since the majority of the instances with the football gag have absolutely nothing to do with a game at all.

No, I'm gonna hafta go with one Robert Smigel on this one: "Charlie Brown didn't keep trying to kick Lucy's football out of some inner strength and Horatio Alger resolve we were supposed to admire. He did it because he was weak. He was flawed, and he couldn't help himself. But that's exactly why we love him." I guess Rkerekes13's third point makes sense here about Charlie making his own misery and all. Seriously, how many times can a person keep trusting someone - whom they know from experience to be a deceiver - on anything in particular before both end up paying the price? Has anyone here read The last time by Wouter Jaegers?

"But it's just like from Dora The Explorer, Little Einsteins, and whatever: Kids learn through repetition." Hello? Just because children have a long way to go is no excuse to treat them like dum-dums. "They're only kids." I just told you, and I'm not repeating myself.

5. Oh, and don't even get me started on Peter Griffin beating her up in the Family Guy episode "Brian's Got A Brand New Bag". She did NOT deserve it at all. And aside from all that, it was one of those typical examples of child abuse.

Schulz and you fans knew it was coming. If anything, he and his associates should've done something about it themselves. And no, I don't mean a boy accidentally hitting a girl. If Charlie could physically duke it out with Violet and original Patty on 12-20-1951, then it can certainly happen again. With anyone. Also, I already said my piece about female-on-male abuse.

6. In conclusion, I encourage everybody to know that somewhere out there, there is (possibly) an edited version of "It's Your First Kiss, Charlie Brown" with all the blame on Charlie Brown removed or re-edited so that Lucy takes the blame instead (since it is her fault to begin with) so that we can stop all the hatred on Lucy for good.

I've watched that version, and the backwards talk doesn't help at all. It certainly doesn't make the special any less cruel; I can tell they're still blaming him. It doesn't make the plot any less ridiculous, either. I'm under the impression that the kids are only in elementary school. Unless that was really the case back in the 1960s and '70s, which I doubt, homecoming events are much too complicated for the elementary grades to set up, much less enact. Is this some kind of strange metaphor for forcing kids to grow up too fast? They're only kids, you said? Okay, now that makes sense.

4/9/2012 . Edited 4/11/2012 #1
Nonamenonamenonameplease

Stupid thing didn't post correctly.

6. In conclusion, I encourage everybody to know that somewhere out there, there is (possibly) an edited version of "It's Your First Kiss, Charlie Brown" with all the blame on Charlie Brown removed or re-edited so that Lucy takes the blame instead (since it is her fault to begin with) so that we can stop all the hatred on Lucy for good.

I've watched that version, and the backwards talk doesn't help at all. It certainly doesn't make the special any less cruel; I can tell they're still blaming him. It doesn't make the plot any less ridiculous, either. I'm under the impression that the kids are only in elementary school. Unless that was really the case back in the 1960s and '70s, which I doubt, homecoming events are much too complicated for the elementary grades to set up, much less enact. Is this some kind of strange metaphor for forcing kids to grow up too fast? They're only kids, you said? Okay, now that makes sense.

4/9/2012 #2
Nonamenonamenonameplease

And, it starts all over again.

2. Lucy is a saint compared to the character Sam Puckett from iCarly. If you ask me, Sam's abuse on Freddie and others is far worse than Lucy's abuse on Charlie Brown and others, which goes to show that, as far as I'm concerned, Lucy means quite well through her actions and actually does have a concience. (Although it's safe to assume that Sam has a concience, too.)

What I meant to say about this is that I've barely looked at iCarly; I have no intentions of doing so; and so have nothing to respond with on this point.

There, stupid thread.

4/11/2012 #3
screak

I agree with most of your points, skipping over those I have no reference to. To clarify some points, though:

Charlie's playing with Shermy, "Blond" Patty, and Violet were somewhat normal. Charlie's knuckle-headed scamp was cute and endearing, but I think that the kids' lasing back at him hurt, and started the downward spiral. As late as the early sixties, Violet said, "Of course I like you! Why shouldn't I? You're very nice and I like you a lot! I just wish you'd stop talking about it!" Charlie's answer, "Is that why you don't like me?" is classic. In short, kids tease and torment kids. Shermy did set the mood in the first strip, but he was also quick to defend Charlie, and they played together often. The girls went back and forth, their feelings, like kids, transitory and brief. In short, I think that Charlie's troubles were dwelt upon too much, hence the kids' reactions, and kids can be cruel, as Schulz said. But, Charlie's vulnerability and wishy-washy character, unless reformed, would plague him forever.

4/17/2012 #4
Nonamenonamenonameplease

Sorry about the previous two posts, I haven't used forums on this site before (I think).

I remember: It's easier to remember the bad experiences than it is the good. The way all the characters' troubles get to be tiresome in the strip's later years? I wonder if that's what people refer to as wangst?

If there are efforts ta help Charlie and company out of their funks (and I'm certain there are), they're presently not enough.

4/18/2012 #5
Rkerekes13

You sure have made some interesting points regarding my claims about Lucy, and I thank you for them. However, I should point out that I am still against all the hatred on Lucy and I exceptionally wish that all the haters would just move on for now.

5/8/2012 #6
Nonamenonamenonameplease

If you can find me a decent, Lucy-centric redemption story - one story in which she realizes her own mistakes (outside of Wouter Jaegers' brainchild) and seeks to set right what she made wrong - you and I may at least find ourselves on the path towards an agreement.

On a side note: Gimme a story in which the entire Peanuts gang - Li'l Folks, whatever they're called - redeem themselves, and that could make my day. You writers need some decent female antagonists to accompany our boys Thibault, Joe Agate, and the guy who attacked Janice? Well, other than Clara from Snoopy Come Home, you could use Melody-Melody from You're In The Superbowl, CB. Yeah! If you could use the surnames of Johnson and Armstrong respectively for Marcie and Franklin, why not utilize Melody-Melody as a villain? I hear she's snotty enough. (I don't care what you do with "Heather".) Or even Mimi from It Was My Best Birthday Ever, CB, I guess. Suffering or repentance, writers; it's your call.

Okay, back on-topic. One story where Lucy redeems herself. Fair enough, right?

5/8/2012 #7
Rkerekes13

I can't think of one right now, but I have thought of maybe writing a Christmas Carol-like story in which she does change, though I don't really plan to do it anytime soon.

5/8/2012 #8
Nonamenonamenonameplease

That sounds interesting. Please, keep me posted.

5/8/2012 #9
Me

It's sad that this is the best I can come up with, but despite my comments that Lucy is really just a female Calvin from Calvin & Hobbes - immature for her age and very self-centered, but not horrible - I dislike her enough that I've never really built a lot of her character.

However, this that I wrote a decade back does have a *little* growth. http://www.fanfiction.net/s/865853/1/The_bBike_b_bAccident_b She says she cares about her brothers in the end, which she'd never done before. I think it would fit the author's definition of a "Lucy redemption story" more if I'd included the scene which was only implied; in you don't want to read, basically Sally had a nightmare that Linus was on that bicycle with the Van Pelt mom and was hurt really badly. I think the scene with Lucy talkignw ith Sally would have been *very touching,a nd if someone wants to write it, they can feel free. I think it would have brought Lucy to the point where she thought about things a lot more and did start to change.

As it was, she was just really quiet during the "team meeting" Charlie Brown called that next morning.

But, I could have done more. I guess I wanted it over with quickly; I don't like angsty stuff that much.

Or, perhaps i just see her as more two-dimensional. If we had a reason behind her actions, it would be easier to work on *what* that reason might be, and do a psychological study of the character that would allow us to get at what's bugging her. Just like I get at Rerun's worrying and help him to improve in that fic. Indeed, I even have Charlie Brown being the leader of his team by standing up and trying to solve things by getting everyone to talk.

And perhaps that was my biggest problem. I didn't think Lucy would talk in a team meeting concept like that. If I'd taken time to, as I've heard some writers describe it, "listen to my characters," maybe I'd have caught a glimpse of a good one-onn-one talk with Sally late at night. And, i better stop before I start overly critiquing my own story. :-)

5/10/2012 . Edited 5/10/2012 #10
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