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Mikenator
Every major Invader Zim forum has it. Though there are already websites that have covered this subject, don't you wish you can discuss your ideas as well?

Well, here you can.

So, what shall we start with?

2/20/2008 . Edited 2/20/2008 #1
Zim'sMostLoyalServant
Well, here's something I've never quite understood: what does the squeedlyspooch do? It's only really mentioned in "Dark Harvest", and Zim never states what it does. And the fanfic authors don't seem to have come to a concensus on its purpose, either.

I've read stories where the squeedlyspooch:

a) Is a digestive organ

b) Serves as a heart

c) Is a big lung

or

d) Is some combo of the three

Personnally, I think it's the first one. Just because of its position, and its general apperance in the episode.

What do you think?

2/26/2008 #2
Mikenator
Well, for what I know: Irken's need some sort of lung to breath. I know their Paks adjust them to any atmosphere, but they need something to pump oxygen to their brain. And they have a heart so they can pump blood to their brain too.

As much as I can tell, the squeedlyspooch is one super digestive organ.

thescarymonkeyshow.com had biology covered pretty well, but I think it was canceled.

2/26/2008 . Edited 2/26/2008 #3
Zim'sMostLoyalServant
Glad you agree with me. That does seem like the most likely use of the squeedlyspooch.

But I've also had questions about the Pak. I know it's hooked into an Irken's nervous system (and probably the brain directly) and the controls all body functions, but does it simply control the Irken's thoughts, or is the Irken's mind programmed into the Pak?

Eh, it's probably the former. No way a Control Brain would purposefully program an Irken as crazy as Zim.

2/26/2008 #4
Mikenator
Pak holding the Irken's mind is what all the websites say, but that wouldn't

make sense. As you said, the control brains wouldn't want a Zim every

generation terrorizing Irken society. I know the Pak holds all the information the Irken would need for general purpose, but I think the Irken conscience is what makes it bad.

I'm not saying Zim is a defect or something, he's just very determined and doesn't have alot of common sense.

2/27/2008 #5
Zim'sMostLoyalServant
Do any of those sites say how old Zim is? Or how long Irkens live, for that matter?

I've read stories where Zim is hundreds of Earth years old, even one or two where he's over a thousand.

2/27/2008 #6
Mikenator
Um, let's see: Zim Wiki has everything but life span. XP I know, right?

I think scareymonkeyshow.com had it, but as I said before it was canceled.

For my opinion, it's not impossible that they live longer than us.

But then again there's the whole theory of the gauging of the length of a year for Irkens. There was never any real explanation if the Irken time standard is similar to ours.

1 year to them could easily be 1 month to us.

Except for that one episode where Zim sits on his couch for a whole year (DVD commentary debunked this as a gag), there's really no true comparison.

Another factor would be metabolism. Technically, you could live a long time if your metabolism is 10x slower than a snail. But since Irkens seem hungry all the time (Red and Purple . . . cough cough . . .) and that they're quite small and thin (Skoodge exception) it's quite possible they could live as long as us.

As for Zim's current age . . . it's hard to tell. He's always surrounded by child characters, so it's hard to compare him to an adult Irken (if he is one). Although he seems quite immature if he is.

You have to remember too that Red and Purple went to Irken Elite school with Zim (would've been in The Trial).

I would probably gauge him as a young adult. Although he could easily be a teenager too to their standards.

I like to think of him as a teenager cause then that would make Tak somewhat a teenager too, and I LOVE TAK!!! <3<3<3<3<3

2/27/2008 . Edited 2/27/2008 #7
otherrealmwriter
From what I've seen and I forget where about 10 Irk years are equal to 1 Earth
2/28/2008 #8
Zim'sMostLoyalServant
Yeah, I always figured that Zim was about the same age as Red and Purple, give or take a few years (I've read the script for "The Trial" too).

And, given their personalities, those two might well be teenagers themselves. So, Zim is probably a teenager (as humans classify things).

Of course, that would make him older than Gaz, so I could kiss ZAGR goodbye. Darn.

2/28/2008 #9
Starry Eyed Escapist
I read that one too, so ZIm and the tallests are peers then ya? I heard from some where's else that zim is supposedly the equal to a fifteen year old, but that doesn't make ANY sense since the kids are like, 11. That one is ruled out.

Tak is about 200 years old, (give or take) as proved in her episode, but she doesn't seem that much older than Zim, but it's hard to tell what with their lack of growing abilities. But since the whole thing takes place with little 11 year old chelluns, (give or take), he's probably about their age in irk years. Some may argue that's notrue because he's in the force, but look at the third world countries. I rest my case.

I also did some math on the age thing. I took the whole zim-is-suppose-to-be-15 thing with the tak-is-about-200 thing and calculated some stuff. I don't have the age list with me, but it was something along the lines of five irk years to one human years. Something along those lines, but like I said, i HIGHLY doubt zim is to be equal to that of a 15 year old. Nope.

2/28/2008 . Edited 2/28/2008 #10
Mikenator
How'd you figure out Tak is 200? The only year reference I know was the 70 year thing. Anyways, according to my calculations: Tak should be like 40 if the 5:1 rule applies.

That definetally doesn't make sense!

Plus you have to take into effect how their raised. In a militaristic society, a 15-year old for them could easily have the personality of a grown person. And then there's the whole height problem. Red and Purple are technically around Zim's age, and they're supposed to act like dignified leaders. NOT !!! XD XD

Well, sometimes they rise up to the occasion.

And then there's the whole growth spurt process, which can easily distort an Irken's maturity to a whole nother level!

So even though you might be able to mathmaticaly calculate how old they are to us, you still would have to take in the sociall, physical, and psycological properties too.

2/28/2008 #11
otherrealmwriter
Yeah they are an alien race and have different ways of working things and the fact that not all the planets have a 365 day cycle, nor 24 hour days that factors into things as well.
2/28/2008 #12
Zim'sMostLoyalServant
Yeah, I don't figure how you got Tak's age as 200, either. I'm guessing she can't be more than 100 in human years, considering the "Devastis incident" was 50 years ago.
2/28/2008 #13
Mikenator
I think I know why Jhonen and the other creators didn't figure this stuff out. There are so many factors that go into it you could use less brainpower to make an Invader Zim episode. XP
2/28/2008 #14
Starry Eyed Escapist
In her episode, she says something about a 70 year wait, then another 50 years

70

<50>

120. My bad. Some where I got 200. But 120 seems more likely.

Like I said before, many are taken into the army at a young age in other countries. How zim got so...naive...is beyond me really. I'm guessing a flaw in the cloning process. Or he could of been bullied, even in the most subtle ways, which could of led to he want for dominance and approval, causing him to act out and overconfident. I know that in those situations, dominance is a big thing. Whether Purple and Red where the height as Zim, I don't remember, but a growth serum could hav easily been taken. They could of had larger heads, like that of Spleens, and could of either taken the serum to grow their bodies, or beneath that uniform is an average irken body, which most fans find unappealing to them. If you check out THE REAL SCIENCE OF IZ (sorry for the caps, that's how its written) by Dr. Lovekill, you'll find that these inigmas have been sorted to a mostly organized extent. I'll redo some math, inserting 11 and 120 into the equation to see if I can come up with another table. My first two where flawed obviously.

So in conclusion:

1) Zim may be overreactive and overzealous as a result in physical/social abuse

2) Growth hormones may be the cause for tallness (in their bodies anyway, the head may be from cloning)

3) Yes, Miyuki would be a better ruler is she were still alive.

4) Zim seems to be the only one with maturity issues. (Tak is just aggresive, but she is trying to become something she really wants to be after all, and you can't be spineless in the forces)

2/29/2008 #15
Zim'sMostLoyalServant
No no no... the Control Brains said she would have to wait 70 years to retake the Invader exam. She had already spent 50 years of that sentence on planet Dirt before she tracked down Zim on Earth.

Just wanted to clairify that.

2/29/2008 #16
Mikenator
It said she escaped, and began a long journey. Who knows how long that was?
2/29/2008 #17
otherrealmwriter
There's a time warp involed or something.....
2/29/2008 #18
Starry Eyed Escapist
Well then let's face it. We aren't going to know how old they are. Its only a rumor that Dib is around 11, and god knows with irkens. Another rumor is that their term lasts 90 years, but that's just a fan hypothesis.
3/1/2008 #19
Mikenator
otherrelmwriter: There's a time warp involved or something.....

Hehe . . . so true.

I would think Dib's around preteen. He just looks it.

I think it would just be easier if we gauged them on their maturity.

Supposably, the Pak prohibits the release of that all important and horrible hormone that starts puberty, which could easily throw us off.

This would also explain why some Irkens like Zim, Purple, etc. act so childishly and that they have to tube breed.

3/1/2008 #20
Starry Eyed Escapist
Not really. The kids likes, two or three feet tall. Scratch that. He's about four foot. In the episode vindiced, the chair had a foot ruler, she he sat, or was it stand, he was about four foot. Im 5 something, so hes not that old. My brother is 11 and he's only a few inches shorter than me.

That last statement makes sense. They can't live without it, but back to the tallests height. Also another reason why they would have to use cloning. they never mature sexually. makes good sense otherrelmwriter.

3/1/2008 #21
Zim'sMostLoyalServant
I just want to get everyone's opion on this:

A lot, if not most, fanfics agree that Irkens reproduce through cloning. However, most of them also say that they are still more than capable of reproducing naturally.

So what's everyone think?

3/1/2008 #22
Mikenator
Starry Eyed: I was 4 feet at 11. Now I'm 5'10 at 17. XP

ZMLS: As an add on to what I said before, the sites also say that Irkens are void of reproductive organs.

I find this extremely immpossible as you would have to completely remove the gene sequence, that forms the organs during the ebriotic stage, from the Irkens' DNA.

Now I bet they could do that, but it would be very unethical.

I say they can sexually reproduce, but they need to hack their Paks to release the 'puberty' hormone.

The tallest growth spurts don't have to be connected to this hormone. There were some kids I know that were over 5'6 at 10!

3/1/2008 #23
Zim'sMostLoyalServant
Well, you know, the hormones that develop the sex organs are different from the hormones that trigger growth.

So, the PAKs probably stop release of the sexual hormones altogether, and only release the growth hormones when triggered by the control brains.

3/1/2008 #24
Mikenator
Didn't I already say that? XD

I said that the sex hormones were different from the growth.

That's what a I meant by 'puberty' hormones. XP

You must know that anything that developed in the body is determined by the DNA.

Sure, you can prohibit the release of the 'puberty' hormone with a Pak; but to remove the sexual organs themselves would have to be on a sub-genetic level.

3/2/2008 #25
Starry Eyed Escapist
Actually there are operations where women have their uterus's removed. What we don't see is what happens AFTER the smeets are zapped. Maybe they have said organs removed after the zappage??

So the paks could stunt growth, while their sex organs are removed to avoid those temptations. Though actually removing all traces of them might be difficult, but not impossible. As said before, they do seem rather unethical. D:

As for the repro hormones, those are stunted as well? Maybe not by the paks, or maybe so. Those temptations can get in a way of a soldier.

3/3/2008 #26
Mikenator
I might not be a biology professor, but I DO know that Starry Eyed!

I don't see any fool-proof way of restricting the repro hormone other than a Pak. If their bodies did it naturaly, there is a chance of slip up.

After zappage, smeets are sent to some big chair where they're given all of the general information they need through their Pak.

Then they're given their 'respected jobs' and are off to train in that field until they're old enough. You would know that if you've ever read the transcript for The Trial.

With out the hormone there is a much lesser chance of any temptation at all, and their militaristic and diciplined society lowers those chances even more.

As I said before, complete removal would be just a terrible thing to do. I say their Paks restrict the hormone, and that's it!

3/3/2008 #27
otherrealmwriter
The hormones are the ones that cause all the reproduction desires and such so if someone cuts off the hormones, a lot of chaos is prevented and the Irkens would be more submissive then
3/3/2008 #28
Starry Eyed Escapist
-I might not be a biology professor, but I DO know that Starry Eyed!

Oh I forgot I had mind reading skills. My bad.

-After zappage, smeets are sent to some big chair where they're given all of the general information they need through their Pak.

Then they're given their 'respected jobs' and are off to train in that field until they're old enough. You would know that if you've ever read the transcript for The Trial.

Mike, dear, do shape up on your rudeness, it's quite uncalled for. Do cease. I did read it as a matter of fact, so before jumping to conclusions and assumptions, do some studying. :3 Like most humans, certain things tend to slip my mind. But then I guess Im discussing this with the incrediable mike with amazing memory then huh? Seriously though, this is no place for your snide comments. So frankly, shut up if you don't have something good to say.

But yah, their paks are most likely the things responsable for it, but it was just a little thought. Don't need to leap at my throat dear.

3/4/2008 #29
Mikenator
-When did I say something snide? I was just saying I already know all that stuff.

-Sorry if it came out as an insult. Jeez @_@ I was just wondering. You're overreacting.

Mike, dear, do shape up on your rudeness, it's quite uncalled for. Do cease. I did read it as a matter of fact, so before jumping to conclusions and assumptions, do some studying. :3 Like most humans, certain things tend to slip my mind. But then I guess I'm discussing this with the incredible mike with amazing memory then huh? Seriously though, this is no place for your snide comments. So frankly, shut up if you don't have something good to say.

-This is much worse than what I said! I'm still trying to figure out if that paragraph you wrote was really necessary.

A simple "Sorry I didn't think you would know that." and a "Yes. I did read it, in fact." would have made me perfectly happy.

3/4/2008 . Edited 3/4/2008 #30
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