NOT Drizzt or Salvatore
Talk about things relating to Forgotten Realms that are not by Salvatore. I love RAS, but it seems he's the only one people write about. What about the other excellent authors, like James Lowder and Elaine Cunningham? Or, I don't know, Ed Greenwood?
New Follow Forum Follow Topic
Page 1 2 Next »
TerraZeal
Am I the only one who actually likes Ed's novels? It seems to me that RAS is so much more popular with everyone, even though Elminster is just as interesting as Drizzt.
12/21/2005 #1
saltedbolts
I like neither Salvatore nor Greenwood, so heh. Elminster? Gary Stu. (So's Drizzt, actually.) The Seven Sisters? Mary Sue queens. As well, too many of Greenwood's characters act exactly the same, and he tends to reuse his stock types repeatedly. Not to mention that his plots sometimes end up waaay disjointed. I still would put Silverfall and Spellfire as two of the worst books I've had the misfortune to read.
12/22/2005 #2
Dominique Sotto
I have never read Ed Greenwood's books, as I prefer the harder fantasy than FR in general, but the Lore on him does make Elminster into the over-the-top character. It is peculiar that I have not seen any parodies on Elminster, while quite a few on Drizzt. Could it be, that Elmister is a parody in his own right?
12/27/2005 #3
Deverien
Actually, I think it's because Elminster is perceived as a dirty ol' man, whereas Drizzt is perceived as 'teh hawt elf'. (And now, I shall cut off my own head for actually using the words 'teh hawt elf')
12/28/2005 #4
Berzerkerprime
Normally, I would agree that Elminster would be a Gary Stu (or Harry Stu or Marty Stu, whichever term one prefers). But you have to remember one thing; Ed Greenwood made the world in the first place. As such, he got to make the big movers and shakers of the setting. You can liken El to a Middle-earth Istari, for crying out loud. But you don't see anyone calling Gandalf or Saruman Gary Stus. Elminster is Sue-ish because he violates one of the basic tennants of fantasy writing that many FR players are rather forced to follow when they make a character: don't make your character the most important person in the world. El, quite frankly, *is* one of the most important people in Faerûn. So he's going to seem Sue-ish. So, personally, I have no problem with our dear wizard in red. ^_^ Sweet water to you! Berz. *** Nen lend ah lalaith lim, darthol i lú aphadad govatham. Gaming quote of the week: "I didn't think to turn into a bird!" "African or European?" - Haman and Amarthir, Company of the Combustible Commode. Come visit the barding college of New Olamn! Located on the FFN forums!
12/28/2005 #5
Blackstaff
As far as Drizzt goes, he's a cool and interesting character, but I don't think he's as great and mighty as people make him out to be. I've read a lot of Ed Greenwood's books. Truthfully, I think Elminster The Making of a Mage is the best Realms book out there. Elminster is many things, and normally Ed didn't really make him out to be such a main character. He was orginally intended to be the guy who would give people some help, but then tell them about themselves. I like the Old Mage personally. My characters respect him, but they'd tell him to $#@% off. But there's more to Ed's work than just the Seven Sisters and Elminster. Pretty much the entire Forgotten Realms is his creation, but as far as characters go, there's also the royal family and the lords of Cormyr. Mirt, Durnan, Khelben, Asper, and the other lords of Waterdeep (except for Danilo Thann). Halaster Blackcloak. The Knights of Myth Drannor. These characters may not be in novels all that much (with the exception of the Knights who are appearing in a trilogy of their own soon) but they are Ed's characters as much as Drizzt, Wulfgar, and Artemis are Salvatores, or Arilyn, Bronwyn, and Danilo are Elaine's.
12/29/2005 #6
Blackstaff
As far as Drizzt goes, he's a cool and interesting character, but I don't think he's as great and mighty as people make him out to be. I've read a lot of Ed Greenwood's books. Truthfully, I think Elminster The Making of a Mage is the best Realms book out there. Elminster is many things, and normally Ed didn't really make him out to be such a main character. He was orginally intended to be the guy who would give people some help, but then tell them about themselves. I like the Old Mage personally. My characters respect him, but they'd tell him to $#@% off. But there's more to Ed's work than just the Seven Sisters and Elminster. Pretty much the entire Forgotten Realms is his creation, but as far as characters go, there's also the royal family and the lords of Cormyr. Mirt, Durnan, Khelben, Asper, and the other lords of Waterdeep (except for Danilo Thann). Halaster Blackcloak. The Knights of Myth Drannor. These characters may not be in novels all that much (with the exception of the Knights who are appearing in a trilogy of their own soon) but they are Ed's characters as much as Drizzt, Wulfgar, and Artemis are Salvatores, or Arilyn, Bronwyn, and Danilo are Elaine's.
12/29/2005 #7
saltedbolts
"You can liken El to a Middle-earth Istari, for crying out loud. But you don't see anyone calling Gandalf or Saruman Gary Stus." Er, how about no? Gandalf doesn't take over the story. He's regarded with suspicion in some places; his role was limited to the War of the Ring -- in previous Ages, he barely had a presence, if at all. Ditto for Saruman. Why the frack would anybody call them Stus? Oh, and most importantly, no nubile young women (or young-looking women) fall over themselves to get into the beds of Curumo, Olorin, Radagast, et al. Hell, Olorin, in the book, doesn't even fling around fireballs; his Ainu powers have to be fairly limited. Elminster, on the other hand... The Simbul -- who was almost desperate to receive his s***, the late Shadowsil, the women with whom he copulated to spawn the many daughters as listed in "Elminster's Daughter", etc. Elminster, furthermore, barely makes mistakes, is always oh-so-wise and lords it over a lot of people, and so on. I recoil every time I see him "correct" someone. Almost all "good guys" admire him nearly to the point of worship. If that's not a Stu, then I don't know what is. To Blackstaff: I'm not particularly interested in his other characters. They all strike me as cardboard cut-outs who invariably have similar sense of humor and personality traits. What is it with Ed and royals/nobles with prodigious sexual appetite, anyway? As well as the very frequent pretty young woman/old hairy man pairing. (Seen in Stormlight, Elminster's Daughter, Spellfire, etc.) Oh, and mustn't forget the women, most of whom are sexually active, fit and lovely-looking even in their forties (see Lhal Myrmeen). So generic. "The Knights of Myth Drannor." I can't stand them. They have "campaign transcript" written all over them, and in fact, that *is* the case.
12/30/2005 #8
Berzerkerprime
Sure he takes over the story. He gets the thing going in both LotR and The Hobbit. Not only that, but he magically appears whenever the story needs him to, even going so far as to COME BACK FROM THE DEAD in a more powerful form (and yes, he really did come back from the dead, it's not just fanon. His spirit went back to Valinor, the Valar looked around said "Let's see, one wizard evil, one not caring for anything but animals, and two missing altogether... uhhh... yer going' back, bub." and sent his spirit back to his body at Zirakzigil where he hopped the Eagle express to Lothlórien). And Gandalf hardly ever makes mistakes either. He's saddled with annoying choices, yes, like having to choose whether to help save Faramir or help save Théoden and Éowyn. But these are not mistakes. If anything, he's even more of a mover and shaker of M-e than El is of Faerûn, since he gets the War of the Ring moving in pretty much every way possible. And since when is Elminster trusted by all everywhere he goes? And women? I can count the number of women in LotR on one hand and they're all taken (in order of appearance, Lobellia Sackville-Baggins, Goldberry, Arwen, Galadriel, and Éowyn). Just who would you have fall all over Gandalf? Do I call the Istari stus? No, but I also don't call El one. But, to each their own. I like El well enough, but Danilo Thann will forever be my favorite. ^_^ Berz. *** Berzerker_prime Headmaster of New Olamn, forum for the Forgotten Realms on the FFN forums network. Nen lend ah lalaith lim, darthol i lú aphadad govatham. Gaming quote of the week: "I didn't think to turn into a bird!" "African or European?" - Haman and Amarthir, Company of the Combustible Commode.
12/31/2005 #9
saltedbolts
Uh, I'm well aware that his resurrection isn't fanon. Durr. However, Gandalf still does not take over the story. He's not the protagonist, and nor is he able to bear the One Ring. Also, he isn't able to influence Frodo's and Sam's journey into Mordor. "Just who would you have fall all over Gandalf?" Eh? You ask me? It's Greenwood's choice to pepper his stories with women to drop into Elminster's lap; if Tolkien wanted any to do the same, he'd have created more unmarried female characters. Your reasoning's a little flawed, and besides which, you forget Ioreth.
1/1/2006 #10
Berzerkerprime
Aha! I did indeed forget Ioreth! Don't know why, she's a wonderfully fun little support character and I've hijacked her for many a fic! ^_^ When it comes to Gandalf and El, though, you have to consider that their genesis(es?) were completely different. El began existance as a game NPC, a guy the player characters could go to for help and/or plot advancement. But he was such a mover and shaker or the Realms that people just wanted to know more about him, including his creator. He was not created to be a main character when he started out. he was created to be a big powerful guy who had his fingers in everything. But this, of course, meant he needed a backstory that explained how he got all his fingers into everything in the first place. El is a part of Faerûnian history, though and through. Gandalf, on the other hand, was created as a wise sage figure in a literary work. This was a very different purpose. We might have enjoyed a big long-winded explanation on his travels during the whole of the Third Age, but it wasn't needed. He was a wise, powerful, old guy and that was enough for the story line, especially for the type of story Tolkien was trying to tell, which was less one of deep characters and more one of archetypes. Was Gandalf involved in any way in the final collapse of Cardolan? Probably, but really who cares when you have bigger fish to fry like Sauron? It was probably a mistake of me to bring up the comparison in the first place. They're both wizards and they're both movers and shakers of their respective worlds, but they differ in how they got to that point. For El, it was because he went around and did stuff and eventually became a Chosen of Mystra. For Gandalf, it was because he was specifically sent to Middle-earth to do so. And they differ in that way because of the reasons and ways they were created by their writers. And you'll have to forgive me for prattling on about the mechanics of the Halls of Mandos. I've just run into too many people who think the Elves can just take a day trip to Valinor and return and it means I've gotten a little over-explanitory on the whole thing (a hazard of hanging out in the LotR section too much, I think... El doesn't seem so bad after you see what some people have churned out over there...). ^_^; Berz. *** Berzerker_prime Headmaster of New Olamn, forum for the Forgotten Realms on the FFN forums network. Nen lend ah lalaith lim, darthol i lú aphadad govatham. Gaming quote of the week: "I didn't think to turn into a bird!" "African or European?" - Haman and Amarthir, Company of the Combustible Commode.
1/1/2006 #11
crushingsky
I'm somewhat conflicted on Ed Greenwood's writing. The seven sisters seem really interesting in the Seven Sister's sourcebook but almost every time he writes them they come off as flighty bimbos. (Silverfall, anyone?) I'll stand up for him and say that he can write some excellent prose but his writing seems really inconsistent. There are a couple forgotten realms authors whose writing styles seem so different from book to book that I wonder if some of them are ghostwritten. I did enjoy reading 'Elminster in Hell' and 'Elminster's Daughter' but I notice that the same creepy themes are in most of his fiction. Those being: Pederasty - Before you all flip, please hear me out. Elminster had sex quite often with Storm, who he adopted as a small child. Mirt has sex (quite often, I'm sure) with his lady, who he also adopted as a small child. Whether or not they waited for their 'girls' to ripen is not explicity stated but in any case it's irrelevant. Pederasty in it's broadest definition is a relationship where a mature adult has a sexual relationship with a much more immature person. I'm aware that pederasty was morally acceptable in certain periods and cultures and I'm not criticizing it's use in modern literature but the fact that it's a recurring motif in Greenwood's fiction is what makes it creepy or at the least, yawn inducing. The fact that none of Elminster's nubile beauties have suffered emotional damage seems dubious to me. Hmmm, could this be why Storm ran away from home as a teenager, led a chaotic early life, and now has difficulties forming emotional attachments? But nah, that would just be fan wangst, right? Casual, Impersonal Sex - Yes, I'm aware that the Forgotten Realms is an egalitarian society with birth control and feminine hygiene products available to all. I'm not a prude by any means but am I the only one that sees Greenwoods characters as emotionally barren? It's like reading about a stable of jaded pornstars that scorn the concept of monogamous love with mutual respect as a myth that only the young believe in. Like Santa Claus. Perhaps it's a natural evolution to arrive at for long lived beings, but just once I'd like to see at least one of his characters getting called on it by a 'mere mortal'. Characters with no personal boundaries violating other's personal boundaries - The strongest and most singular theme that seems to run through Greenwood's fiction. Sometimes I wonder if Mystra is also the goddess of bondage and r***. Her servants sure seem to like violating and manipulating the pride, beliefs, and intimate boundaries of those who are 'less enlightened' than them and have often done nothing wrong. A classic example is in the book "Elminster's Daughter". "SpellFire" or whatever it was is also an example. In both of these, the psychic violation and manipulation of the younger characters was unneccessary for the ultimate goals of Mystra's servants. Strangely, I don't consider myself a judgemental person but these things have always nagged at me. I don't mean to be too hard on Greenwood, I've really enjoyed some of his work and sourcebooks but I wonder if I'm the only one who is disturbed by his literary fetishes.
1/2/2006 #12
saltedbolts
*deadpan* You see, Greenwood's... excuse is that his Chosen of Mystra are all quite insane due to their long lifespan and the silverfire burning in their veins. Or something. I've never read/heard about the Storm/Elminster intimacies, but yes, I agree: it is very creepy, particularly with Mirt/Asper. More so because, apparently, Elminster was the one who acted as the matchmaker. I mean... what? I just find it odd that Greenwood doesn't seem to treat this as abnormal, and maybe it's normal in the Realms -- hey, his sandbox, his rules, right? But the fact remains that neither Storm nor Asper seems to have been damaged by this, as you said. The implied p*** isn't healthy, and even if neither Elminster or Mirt shagged their little girls before they matured, the prior parental relationship is still disturbing. As with the case of the Chosen manipulating people (because they always "know better"), this seems to be portrayed as good and right by Greenwood. And the casual, impersonal sex thing. Most, if not all, of Greenwood's characters are consistently happy with prancing around nude or French-kissing a perfect stranger at first meeting (Qilue on Elaith, remember?). For some reason, propriety seems to be one of the most reviled things amongst his characters and so, I suppose, is the idea of matrimonial obligations (like... not going off and stapling random strangers to the mattress when you're married in a monogamous context -- surely not everybody is married by Sharress' or Sune's clergy). "Perhaps it's a natural evolution to arrive at for long lived beings, but just once I'd like to see at least one of his characters getting called on it by a 'mere mortal'." But the mere mortals are almost always worshiping the "not mere mortal" characters of his. One prime example would be the entirety of "Silverfall."
1/2/2006 #13
crushingsky
Regarding Qilue: I much preferred Elaine Cunninghams portrayal of her, short as it was. It was hard to imagine Elaine's Qilue doing the insipid crap that the Qilue from Silverfall did. Silverfall was a big disapointment to me. I really like the sisters and even Elminster as presented in the sourcebooks(which were written by Ed) but when it's storytime... I get frustrated because I've read alot of his forgotten realms fiction over the years and sometimes he can really shine, he developes characters that have so much potential and then he writes utter tripe like Silverfall. Such a waste. I've read all the 'Ed speaks' resources on candlekeep. His excuse that they are insane from the long years and power does'nt hold water. If that was true, would'nt Ed as a writer want to fully explore the dramatic possiblities inherent in his character's predicament and isolation from those that are sane and have emotional depth? Instead of the chosen just rolling over the mortals and their inferior mortal minds? Immortality is'nt a concept that should be handled so lightly. I have to give Ed credit though. He stated that he originally meant for the realms to just be dumb fun. You have to suspend disbelief I guess. It's certainly no worse than any of the roleplaying I did when I was a pen-and-paper geek. Maybe all the years of creative sprawl from other authors and pressing the material into roles it was'nt meant to fill are making the stitches show. I was'nt lying about Storm by the way. She really did run away from Elminster's home as a teenager and became a slave/dancing girl by the age of 15(that means sex toy in fantasy parlance), seduced several men at that age, blah, blah, blah.
1/2/2006 #14
saltedbolts
Well -- *snorts* -- his other excuse is that the evil editor forces him to cut things out and omit the "subtler" side of the Realms. *eyeroll* It may well be true, but why, then, don't other FR novelists suffer from the same sort of editorial constraints? And is it just me, or whining that boils down to "the evil editors keep me from realizing my true artistic vision!" is unprofessional and childish? "Immortality is'nt a concept that should be handled so lightly." Agreed. The non-humans in my fantasy are immortal and indestructible, and to humans, they can be very, very weird. I'm not quite sure why immortality should result in "propriety thrown to the winds" (Greenwood's word paraphrased), and with EG, it's not like it happens to just one character. Pretty much *all* of his are like that. Wuh? Do they have a hive mind or something? If this, and arrogant "I know what's best for everyone" approach to everything, is his idea of portraying insane people... then uhm, no thanks. "I was'nt lying about Storm by the way. She really did run away from Elminster's home as a teenager and became a slave/dancing girl by the age of 15(that means sex toy in fantasy parlance), seduced several men at that age, blah, blah, blah." Oh, I wasn't disputing the fact, it's just that I wasn't aware that Elminster bedded Storm. I knew about the slave girl bit, though. Btw, what did you think of "Stormlight"? (If you've read it, I mean.)
1/2/2006 #15
Berzerkerprime
A question for you all, and I'm really actually curious and this shouldn't be read in any kind of indignant or snobbish way because that's not the tone I mean. I've noticed that a lot of fic writers tend to have a bad opinion of pen and paper gaming. Often the argument is "oh, all the characters are the same and there's no real creativity, it's all Suvianism," or "I don't want dice to control what I know my character should be able to do well or badly." My personal experience with pen and paper gaming has been all-around positive (of course, all the people I've played with in my two groups tend to be very well suited to each other, so maybe I'm just amazingly lucky). I've had a number of characters grow into amazingly rounded individuals (they typically end up having issues, of course, but they're rounded) and been a party to a lot of campaigns that would make excellent novels well balanced with humor and drama. So, I guess I'd like to know if people have just had bad experiences with pen and paper gaming or what. I realize that for some it simply won't have turned out to be their cup of tea, but I'm wondering what part of it people tend not to like. Is it the fluid nature of the story lines? Is it a lack of thereof, even? Or is it that the numbers get in the way? And on the flip side... I've heard a lot of people complain about the Realms being too over populated with powerful and important NPCs that are the movers and shakers of Realms history. The complaint is typically that it keeps player characters and GMs from being able to determine the course of the story line. Personally, I like the detail of the Realms; it makes it seem more alive and organic to me. Looking through sourcebooks, I alsways find lots of places where things are left wide open for players and GMs to mess with, so where's the issue? Am I missing something here? I guess this is really kind of more food for thought than anything else, but I'd be interested in hearing what others have to say. Sweet water to you! Berz. *** Berzerker_prime Headmaster of New Olamn, forum for the Forgotten Realms on the FFN forums network. Nen lend ah lalaith lim, darthol i lú aphadad govatham. Gaming quote of the week: "I didn't think to turn into a bird!" "African or European?" - Haman and Amarthir, Company of the Combustible Commode.
1/2/2006 #16
Deverien
"I've heard a lot of people complain about the Realms being too over populated with powerful and important NPCs that are the movers and shakers of Realms history..." I read somewhere that adventurers and powerful/important characters actually make up less than 1% of the total population of the Realms. "I always find lots of places where things are left wide open for players and GMs to mess with, so where's the issue? Am I missing something here?" I suppose the issue is that standard players aren't allowed to be overly powerful. If they could go about causing massive upsets of power in a given region at every turn, they'll eventually catch the notice of someone bigger than they are. The struggle between good and evil is a big part of the FR setting, and any action can be easily counterbalanced by competing interests. If the players go around dismantling slaving guilds in the south, some angry crimelords are going to smack those 'heroes' back in line. Or some other criminal group will just flood in and take over the slaving trade. If the players run amok burning down every house they can find, eventually they're going to find themselves facing an angry vigilante mob, or worse. Players aren't allowed to create significant change on a whim since there is always some moderating force present, be it good or evil, lawful or chaotic.
1/2/2006 #17
saltedbolts
Well... I personally have nothing against PnP, but don't play it because: a) I don't want to spend hundreds on sourcebooks (okay, actually, I have a lot of them in electronic format on my HDD) b) I've nobody to play with. D:
1/2/2006 #18
crushingsky
Winterfox: No, I have'nt read Stormlight. I was so disgusted after reading Spellfire that I would'nt give EG's novels a chance again until that particular title went out of print. It's pretty difficult to find but from what I've read of the reviews it seems similar in quality to Silverfall so I have'nt tried very hard to get it. BerserkerPrime: I played alot of pen and paper when I was in my teens and would even play now if the planets were in the correct alignment. My gaming experiences were mixed. It depended on the people and the play style. I had alot of fun with it though, even if sometimes it was at the expense of others. No, I was'nt a game troll. I saw myself as something akin to a trickster god trying to elevate the community conscious through use of the absurd. And yes, I did it in character. Part of the stigma attributed to pen and paper comes from the 'dork' culture it usually attracts. That by itself is'nt a bad thing. I'm sure most of us here fit somewhere in the nerd, geek, and freak taxonomy. But most dorks are incapable of interacting with real people in any great facility so how much more compelling could their roleplaying be? We all know where it ends up going and the result is usually dull powergaming or something even more painfully awkward than the worst fanfic on this board. Today and even in my teens I never admitted to anyone that I had an interest in pen and paper for fear that some goober would follow me around like a puppy and gabber endlessly about how powerful their character was. Some people are content with this but I need a story with believable interpersonal and societal politics. Of all the people I gamed with there were a few with whom I had very fun experiences but if you are having the pen and paper experience that I would have liked to have, then truly I envy you. In any case, I always had more fun just reading the sourcebooks and incorporating them into my daydreams. No. Don't get me wrong. I've loved the Forgotten Realms since I read Ed Greenwood's articles in Dragon magazine. I agree with you that the realms is supposed to be a play box filled with open ends to capture our imaginations. It's certainly caught mine. The problem is that such a device should'nt be extensively novelized or glaring compromises have to be made on one side or the other. The only criticism I have of the setting itself is that it is filled with so much magic that is put to such pedestrian, unimaginitive use. For example: Cormyr can make a hundred floating helmed horrors but they can't built a hundred floating pallets to better facilitate trade and transportation? Cormyr would become a real monster then. If I was a mage in the forgotten realms, I would'nt be chasing after silverfire or researching a more powerful fireball. I would use the magic that's already available to revolutionize trade, transport, communications, industry, and even entertainment. I would crush everyone in the trade wars, my chokehold over the communications market would allow me to set de facto standards for banking and tariffs, and control the information they receive. FR societies could become far more advanced and enlightened to our own. There could even be internet. I could reshape the socio-political landscape as I saw fit. The possibilites are endless. Sadly, those pesky harpers would probably intercede and ruin it, even if I acted ethically.
1/3/2006 #19
Deverien
Winterfox: I think there are some PnP groups that congregate online and play through chat programs or forums or some such. They use chat programs that mimic die rolling and everything, so I hear.
1/3/2006 #20
Dominique Sotto
Yes, but playing through forums looks a bit silly. I found a RL meet-up group in my city, and I have to say it is interesting. The only problem with P&P because it is very time consuming, and with the current addition very tough on the beginner. I have these highly embaracing moments when then someone of my player's group (tactfully, mind you) tells me something: Oh, did you add the +1 because you were flanking?" Or "Your wolf gets ann attack of opportunity..." and when I try to summon a nature's ally, half the group pulls out their manuals and holds a highly detailed discussion on what I can summon and what it can do, cross-referencing it and all... the most embaracing thing is that I *know* I won't remeber it next time anyway. I think, while playing P&P is fun, the CRPG is a better thing for me, because I just don't want to memorize the player manual by heart.
1/4/2006 #21
Berzerkerprime
Dominique Sotto: Yeah, I definately agree that there's a lot to keep track of, especially in a battle. My mind boggles on how many times I've forgotten to add our bard's +1 bonuses for attack rolls and saves. But the important thing to remember is that everyone forgets this stuff every once in a while and it's really not that big a deal. Everyone reminding you is really more the group mind mentality rather than criticism. As for the big long discussions... Summon nature's ally? Lemme guess. Druid? My group has had just exactly that conversation. It finally ended because our Druid's player just put his foot down and said "but the characters aren't actually having this conversation, so this is what my character is summoning." And that was that. After a declaration like that, it becomes the fault of the GM if the conversation continues. If you've made your decision, you just have to stick by it. I'm definately with you on the CRPG thing, though. My cup of tea is always the character interactions and I'm always terribly bored when we do straight dungeon crawls. But, I've found a way around it, though. Ramp up your in-character-ness during dungeon crawls. I'll give you an example. Over the summer, my group ended up having to go into Skullport to rescue some small children (and try and find our now-missing archer, but that's another story still on-going). In order to get back *out* of Skullport, we ended up crawling through part of Undermountain (don't ask me which part... we came up near Longsaddle, but that involved three portals and a red dragon!). This dungeon crawl took us ALL SUMMER to do. During the first half of it, my dice HATED me. There was a long stretch where I could roll nothing higher than a nine. My character hit nothing in battle, didn't notice things sneaking up on them, couldn't track things in the dirt (and she's the Ranger, for crying out loud!), and she was basically all-around useless. And then I remembered a few things. One, she's a wood elf. She doesn't really do caves. Two, all this is happening right after she (a) has gotten as far away from the issues at home as she can get, since there's now an ocean to the west of her and (b) the one person she trusted completely had just gone missing, zipped off by his long-lost and Eldtreth Veluuthra participating brother into a portal to Ao knows where. So, guess what? I had her have a meltdown. But, I didn't just do it randomly while they were talking along in a passage way. Oh no! I waited for the GM to give me an excuse. It came in the form of an umberhulk who poked her mentally and sent her scrambling for cover six caverns away from the rest of the group which was still in battle. When that was finally over, it was the group's Dwarf who found her, plopped down with her for a while and started talking. The Dwarf's player and I ended up having a nice, hour long in-character conversation as he tried to calm her down. Then, for the rest of the dungeon crawl, I added modifiers to a lot of my character's rolls to simulate mild claustrophobia. In short, I made no secret that if she didn't get out of Undermountain soon, she would lose it. Everyone told me later that it made the crawl so much more interesting. If you insist on character play, odds are that the rest of the group will go along with you. ^_^ Sweet water to you! Berz. *** Berzerker_prime Headmaster of New Olamn, forum for the Forgotten Realms on the FFN forums network. Nen lend ah lalaith lim, darthol i lú aphadad govatham. Gaming quote of the week: "I didn't think to turn into a bird!" "African or European?" - Haman and Amarthir, Company of the Combustible Commode.
1/4/2006 #22
Dominique Sotto
I am feeling terribly guilty highjacking the perfectly unrelated forum, but I think, I find it very difficult to switch from role-playing in my head (I am that big ever half-drunken Rashemi) to role-playing at the table. I like the guys I play with, and DM actually awards extra XP points for the best in-character stuff, but I guess, I am just a hopeless introvert. Anyways, back to the scheduled programming! I have nothing to say about Elmisnter, except I loved what he said in BG1! Some of his lines are awsome.
1/5/2006 #23
Arid One
Ed Greenwood wrote one of the WotSP books, right? I'm trying to remember, but I can't. Oh poop...
2/17/2006 #24
saltedbolts
Uh. No. Here, let me introduce you to: http://justfuckinggoogleit.com/
2/18/2006 . Edited 2/18/2006 #25
Berzerkerprime
Okay, I admit it. I give up. I've been slogging my way through Elminster: Making of a Mage since December. And now, in part three, "Priest," I'm finding that it has jumped the shark. Greenwood obviously wrote El's transformation into a woman from a distinctly hormonal male perspective. "Swinging sensation on his chest" indeed! I never feel that unless I'm trying to... I gave this book as much of a chance as I could, but I just don't think I'm going to manage to get through it. I hate leaving books half-read, but "Lost Library of Cormanthyr" is really calling to me right now. Just had to rant a bit. Please return to your regularly scheduled thread. Sweet water to you! Berz.
3/5/2006 #26
saltedbolts
[q]a distinctly hormonal male perspective.[/q] Now, now. What other perspective is there in Greenwood's novels? [q]"Swinging sensation on his chest" indeed! I never feel that unless I'm trying to...[/q] *snerk* Perhaps femme!Elminster has DD assets. *eyeroll*
3/6/2006 #27
crushingsky
[q]"Swinging sensation on his chest" indeed! I never feel that unless I'm trying to...[/q] I'm trying not to be crude but Greenwood IS a chubster with b***-t***. Maybe he knows what he's talking about.
3/8/2006 #28
Berzerkerprime
"*snerk* Perhaps femme!Elminster has DD assets. *eyeroll*" "I'm trying not to be crude but Greenwood IS a chubster with b***-t***. Maybe he knows what he's talking about." He can't possibly know what he's talking about! Not to be crude in return, but I've got DD assests and I don't feel no swingin'. ~_~ *sigh...* I hate leaving books half-finished... argh! I don't suppose Elminster in Myth Drannor is any better is it? Berz.
3/9/2006 #29
crushingsky
[q]He can't possibly know what he's talking about! Not to be crude in return, but I've got DD assests and I don't feel no swingin'. ~_~[/q] Some b*** are firmer and more supple than others. :D Although, it does remind me of that movie 'the forty year old virgin' where the virgin is lying to his friends about making it with a woman and saying that b*** feel like bags of sand. Berzie, if you really want to read Greenwood, try reading 'Elminster in Hell'. It's probably his most decent book.
3/9/2006 #30
Page 1 2 Next »
Forum Moderators: TerraZeal
Rules:
  • Forums are not to be used to post stories.
  • All forum posts must be suitable for teens.
  • The owner and moderators of this forum are solely responsible for the content posted within this area.
  • All forum abuse must be reported to the moderators.
Membership Length: 2+ years 1 year 6+ months 1 month 2+ weeks new member