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Jon Stewart

Okay, you guys win. We totally need a thread for this. The chat just can't hold it all (as has been proven by the Epic Discussion).

If you're reading this and have never seen Red vs. Blue, go watch it. Right now. Seriously. At least get through season one.

Title Change: Enjoy it while it lasts, Bluetards~ Edit: The real title is back! 8DD Edit again: Merry Christmas (part two), Lance~ Moar edits: I missed the old title. :K Way later edit: Attempting to change the poll. Can I attach it to a thread and have it on my profile at the same time? :s Also killed the list of characters; we don't ever use it. XD

Warning: Spoilers, crazed fangirls, and conspiracy theories abound!

I'm going to post the Epic Discussion of 8/27 below~ Feel free to theorize, rant, ramble, post quotes, etc.

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8/28/2008 . Edited 9/20/2009 #1
Jon Stewart

Did you see the new RvB? (Why do I even need to ask that question?)

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Did you see the new RvB? (Why do I even need to ask that question?)

Did you seriously just ask this? O_O

And Doc--oh, speaking of Doc...sponsor edition of this ep wins~

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And Doc--oh, speaking of Doc...sponsor edition of this ep wins~Eh. -shrug- So...it appears you were right about the simulation thing?

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So...it appears you were right about the simulation thing?

Yup. ^^

The new crackpot theory involves A.I.!Church, in that he is.

Wait...yeah.

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The new crackpot theory involves A.I.!Church, in that he is....What? -blink-

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...What? -blink-

Church = A.I. or something similar.

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Church = A.I. or something similar.-blink-

Be...because he's a ghost? Ghost ≠ AI

---

You seriously think they'd incorporate ghosts into Reconstruction, or that Wash wouldn't be a little more shocked to see one if they did? It just doesn't seem to fit. If he's a ghost, why not possess the Meta and try to bring it down that way? After all, he can only die once; if the A.I.s destroyed him in the Meta's head, he'd just jump back in (bow-chicka-bow-wow). Why bother taking cover from the Meta if he could possess his body again and keep on fighting it?

Then there's one of Wash's lines that I keep having to replay.

Amber hears, "Did he know what you are?"

I hear, "Do you know what you are?"

It could be because my headphones are slightly chewed and my hearing sucks, or maybe it's a sponsor thing, but...

---

Oh.

But how does being killed make him an AI?

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-is watching public version-

Reference to BGC. ♥

"What about the time Inspection kicked your asses all over--"

XDD I'm guessing that's the time Grif got them all quarantined~

But how does being killed make him an AI?

...What? No, like...he's been one all along. If he and Tex are A.I.s, their "past" doesn't have to be real. After all, Church and Tex reappeared as "ghosts," while death everywhere else just means death.

If Command sends all of the dropkicks out to Blood Gulch to test equipment, why not see what happens when an A.I. is allowed to do its own thing, or if two are paired together? O'Malley preferred Tex for some unexplained reason, even though there must have been more pliable candidates for integration.

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*looks up*

Ooooh, RvB talk.

---

While that does make sense, think about it. Why would an all powerful A.I. team with another A.I.? If Tex was an A.I., why didn't O'Malley just boot her out of her body and take it for himself? Also, if Church was an A.I., why didn't the Meta make a B-line straight for him? An A.I. that controls its own body... The risk would have been worth it.

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While that does make sense, think about it. Why would an all powerful A.I. team with another A.I.? If Tex was an A.I., why didn't O'Malley just boot her out of her body and take it for himself?

Maybe that was his goal - take Tex's body over - but she proved too strong. It could've been Church who kind of kept him in check - after all, he was able to subdue O'Malley and remain unaffected with him in his helmet (wait...pronouns...yeah). It could be that Tex presented the best opportunity for a follower; if some of that seek-the-Alpha programming found its way into Tex's head, merely buried, she would prove invaluable.

And don't forget how she's almost constantly bad-ass and take-charge. Each A.I. so far has had a specialty - logic, deception, fucking megalomaniacal power-seeking...Church's cynicism could fit right in, as well.

Also, if Church was an A.I., why didn't the Meta make a B-line straight for him?

"Beeline," and it's quite possible that Omega was still wary of him, or that Maine was never told. Omega might never have known that Tex was an A.I., merely finding the seek-the-Alpha urge and writing it off as something carried over from training, and Tex herself obviously wouldn't know anything to pass on to him. If the other freelancers knew about Church, the A.I.s would know, and word would have gotten back to Tex, who probably couldn't have kept it from Church...who, himself, doesn't know that he's an A.I. if he is.

An A.I. that controls its own body... The risk would have been worth it.

Really? That runs the risk of having Church take over and remain totally unaffected by the presence of the other A.I.s, despite their sheer quantity. Omega also knows that Church knows how to remove A.I.s from others' heads, as he's done so before; why ask for destruction?

-looks up-

My rambling runs in contradicting circles~

---

"Beeline,"

Shhhhh.... 8D

I'm still not totally convinced. It's a very good theory though.

---

I'm still not totally convinced. It's a very good theory though.

I'm hoping it's true. That would make Church way cooler than he already is, impossible as that may seem~

But seriously. Reconstruction!Church is the best...maybe more than Reconstruction!Grif. -mutter-

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maybe more than Reconstruction!Grif. -mutter-Well, we've seen way more of Church than Grif. -shrug-

Have RT said how long Reconstruction will be?

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But seriously. Reconstruction!Church is the best...maybe more than Reconstruction!Grif. -mutter-

"You are most immature soldiers I have ever met!"

"Yeah? Well your face is immature!"

---

Well, we've seen way more of Church than Grif. -shrug-

Yeah...

Have RT said how long Reconstruction will be?

Nineteen/eighteen episodes (I think chapter nine was two chapters spliced together, so...yeah). They're probably going to leave it nice and open-ended so that they can make a nice mini-series about, like...Tucker. Or something.

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Nineteen/eighteen episodes (I think chapter nine was two chapters spliced together, so...yeah). They're probably going to leave it nice and open-ended so that they can make a nice mini-series about, like...Tucker. Or something.Really? That short? o.o

...I'm guessing Tucker and Donut won't be in it at all, then. -sigh-

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"You are most immature soldiers I have ever met!"

"Yeah? Well your face is immature!"

Alright, so that was the best line in the history of ever. 8D

...and it went:

"You have to be the most immature soldiers I've ever met!"

"Your face is immature!"

...but that was close enough~

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...I'm guessing Tucker and Donut won't be in it at all, then. -sigh-

Donut was kind of in it...for a couple of seconds...in Caboose's mind. -sigh-

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...but that was close enough~

Well, I've only seen it once, and a few day ago at that D8

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Donut was kind of in it...for a couple of seconds...in Caboose's mind. -sigh-¬.¬ There's, like, no reason at all for them not to be there. Why did Wash get Caboose and Church but not Tucker, and why couldn't Sarge get Donut?

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¬.¬ There's, like, no reason at all for them not to be there. Why did Wash get Caboose and Church but not Tucker, and why couldn't Sarge get Donut?

I'm sure there will be a spin-off series to explain it. -.-

At least we know Doc wasn't ret-conned out. That means Tucker has a chance.

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At least we know Doc wasn't ret-conned out. That means Tucker has a chance.What happened with Doc on the sponsor edition?

I'm sure there will be a spin-off series to explain it. -.-Because it's ever so hard to include two characters in the actual one. -.-

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What happened with Doc on the sponsor edition?

He showed up after the credits, looked around, and, seeing no one, said, "Hey, guys? I'm here. . . . Anybody? . . . Alright, you guys suck. Stupid windmill."

People pay ten bucks for this stuff. XD

Because it's ever so hard to include two characters in the actual one. -.-

Pretty much, yeah.

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He showed up after the credits, looked around, and, seeing no one, said, "Hey, guys? I'm here. . . . Anybody? . . . Alright, you guys suck. Stupid windmill."

People pay ten bucks for this stuff. XD

How did he get there? xD

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How did he get there? xD

Damned if I know~

...Maybe Tucker brought him. -mutter-

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...Maybe Tucker brought him. -mutter-How'd Tucker get there? 8D

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How'd Tucker get there? 8D

Who cares? It's Tucker! He can do whatever he wants.

Maybe that's why he's not in this series: he's not a complete failure, and they're letting him really work (bow-chicka-bow-wow). -snort-

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Maybe that's why he's not in this series: he's not a complete failure, and they're letting him really work (bow-chicka-bow-wow). -snort-Doubt it. xD

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Doubt it. xD

Why? He doesn't fail, and he has common sense. Once you get past the sex obsession, Tucker's not really bad.

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Why? He doesn't fail, and he has common sense. Once you get past the sex obsession, Tucker's not really bad.Well, Church doesn't really fail either. xD

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Well, Church doesn't really fail either. xD

He's a hopeless shot with no people skills. XD

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He's a hopeless shot with no people skills. XDBut he's snarky! That also makes him win! 8D

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Well, Church doesn't really fail either. xD

I like Church. Tawny, did you come up with any more ways Church is an AI?

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"One stone at a time, man. That's all. One stone at a time."

Stephen King = closet hippie? =OOOOO

((Okay...so it's not RvB-related...but it is epic~!))

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Tawny, did you come up with any more ways Church is an AI?

There might be something in my giant ramble to Lei. XD

http://www.fanfiction.net/topic/48799/8704426/11/

8D

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I read that. It makes some sense.

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I read that. It makes some sense.

Thanks, I think~

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I mean, the fact that Church and Tex may be AIs because they're the only ghosts. Otherwise York may have come back, and South would have come back for revenge.

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Ooooh, I've just thought! Jacob, if Church was an A.I., how was it he could appear as a ghost before Tucker and Caboose without his suit? All the A.I.s need a form of technology to appear, like when Delta used York's, South's and Caboose's suits to appear. O'Malley, when he jumped from body to body, never showed his face, did he?

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Easy. Church used the teleporter. O'Malley wanted the element of surprise, of course he wouldn't show up!

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Jacob, if Church was an A.I., how was it he could appear as a ghost before Tucker and Caboose without his suit?

He was never buried. It "took a lot of concentration"; perhaps from distance of projection?

All the A.I.s need a form of technology to appear, like when Delta used York's, South's and Caboose's suits to appear. O'Malley, when he jumped from body to body, never showed his face, did he?

No, but O'Malley didn't have an empty suit to use (until he found Flowers', I suppose, and led the aliens to it).

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He was never buried. It "took a lot of concentration"; perhaps from distance of projection?

Yours makes more sense.

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He was never buried. It "took a lot of concentration"; perhaps from distance of projection?

His projection would be quite small though, wouldn't it? Also, Delta never used an empty suit, yet he still projected.

And finally, I'm sure Church did a couple of *other* ghosty things after his body was buried, and by that point the bodies had probably fallen through into the cavern, right?

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And finally, I'm sure Church did a couple of *other* ghosty thing after his body was buried, and by that point the bodies had probably fallen through into the cavern, right?

He had Lopez, then. I'll have those letters posted one at a time.

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His projection would be quite small though, wouldn't it?

Delta managed to manifest as a passable imitation of a full-sized Tex.

Also, Delta never used an empty suit, yet he still projected.

...So? XD

And finally, I'm sure Church did a couple of *other* ghosty things after his body was buried, and by that point the bodies had probably fallen through into the cavern, right?

There was still a big-ass computer, even if there weren't tons of others with him in the canyon.

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And finally, I'm sure Church did a couple of *other* ghosty things after his body was buried, and by that point the bodies had probably fallen through into the cavern, right?

And wait a second--no, he didn't. By the time he was finally buried, Church already had Lopez's body, like Amber said.

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And wait a second--no, he didn't. By the time he was finally buried, Church already had Lopez's body, like Amber said.

*grins* And there's still the teleporter...

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Also, Delta never used an empty suit, yet he still projected.

...So? XD

Because you said O'Malley didn't project because he never had an empty suit. And every time Delta projected, he glowed green. Which brings me to another point. How can a suit project if it's in the mountains (Church's dead body)? The projection beam wouldn't reach Tucker and Caboose.

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OMG, JACOB! LOOK WHAT I FOUND ON ROOSTERPEDIA!

Church was emotionally crushed when Tex was apparently destroyed in the final episode.

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Because you said O'Malley didn't project because he never had an empty suit.

But Delta had a full suit. o_o O'Malley also wasn't trying to. Tex only projected a few times.

And every time Delta projected, he glowed green.

Was he glowing in OoM, as Tex!Delta? I don't remember.

Which brings me to another point. How can a suit project if it's in the mountains (Church's dead body)? The projection beam wouldn't reach Tucker and Caboose.

Good point. He could've used their suits, I suppose, or lights from the multitude of cameras in Blood Gulch. If Command wanted to let him do so without taking conscious notice, they probably could have.

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OMG JACOB! LOOK WHAT I FOUND ON ROOSTERPEDIA!

Church was emotionally crushed when Tex was apparently destroyed in the final episode.

Well, yeah. There's no way in hell now that Tex is dead. My mind has been changed since the beginning of the series. XD

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Was he glowing in OoM, as Tex!Delta? I don't remember.

He was :P

Good point. He could've used their suits, I suppose, or lights from the multitude of cameras in Blood Gulch. If Command wanted to let him do so without taking conscious notice, they probably could have.

Hmmm, I'm a bit skeptical of that XD

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He was :P

But you could see through him. You can see through Church. Church might be glowing white!

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Church might be glowing white!

Sorry, Amber, but I refuse to believe that Church's ghost form in Reconstruction was glowing XD

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Hmmm, I'm a bit skeptical of that XD

Oh, come on. They had cameras, like, everywhere. Why not outfit it with projectors and stuff, too? After all, if they're prepared for anything, they'll have counted on Church eventually finding out (and perhaps in a very unexpected manner, and not exactly interpreting it as he was intended).

Aw, I don't know, but conspiracy theories are fun.

Tex is coming back! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Most likely - Sarge mentioned her robot body, so she's back, almost without a doubt.

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Sorry, Amber, but I refuse to believe that Church's ghost form in Reconstruction was glowing XD

It's bright. It might be glowing.

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Sorry, Amber, but I refuse to believe that Church's ghost form in Reconstruction was glowing XD

Why does he need to glow? The glow could just be special effects. Get sophisticated enough equipment and anything is possible. Hell, they could have freaking nanos for Church (okay, so no, but whatever).

Besides, a glowing A.I. is, simply put, a hell of a lot more impressive and obvious than one that doesn't glow.

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Jacob: Well, considering all the A.I.'s the Meta collected were glowing... besides, projection is light. Light is kind of... light-ish. Light glows.

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Light is also bright, and Church's white is bright.

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Yeah, but it's not glowing. It's not casting any light off, and it looked quite dull in the last two chapters.

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Well, considering all the A.I.'s the Meta collected were glowing...

Like I said, that could just be for show~

besides, projection is light. Light is kind of... light-ish. Light glows.

Delta doesn't glow out from the source of light; his glow spreads out from the center of his projection, so his creators obviously know how to manipulate light. Instead of creating nice, centered rays, why not remove the special effects altogether?

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Jacob: Well, considering all the A.I.'s the Meta collected were glowing... besides, projection is light. Light is kind of... light-ish. Light glows.

Not all of them did. One of them looked like Church's color did in the old episodes.

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One of them looked like Church's color did in the old episodes.

Wasn't that Omega? I think it's been mentioned on the forums.

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Wasn't that Omega? I think it's been mentioned on the forums.

*shrugs* No idea. None of them seem like Gary, who should be there.

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No idea. None of them seem like Gary, who should be there.

Possibly the one in the upper or lower right-hand corner? Omega could easily be the black and orange one - as in fire, destruction.

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It's also worth noting that the only visible glowing is being done by Delta. :D

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I think they're all quite glowly. The only one that isn't is the one hovering above Caboose D8

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It's also worth noting that the only visible glowing is being done by Delta. :D

You sure? The purpley blueish pinky one might be glowing.

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The purple, blue, yellow, orange and shimmery ones are all glowing, as well as Delta.

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You sure? The purpley blueish pinky one might be glowing.

It looks fuzzy, like a bad projector, rather than a glow, but that's just me. It could be that the iTunes quality of RvB:Re fails. The same "fuzz" effect shows up on all three on the top row, but it's no brighter than they are.

The only one who, on second inspection, looks like they're glowing is the orange-and-black A.I. (Omega?).

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It looks fuzzy, like a bad projector, rather than a glow, but that's just me. It could be that the iTunes quality of RvB:Re fails. The same "fuzz" effect shows up on all three on the top row, but it's no brighter than they are.

The only one who, on second inspection, looks like they're glowing is the orange-and-black A.I. (Omega?).

Only two look fuzzy for me.

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two look fuzzy for me.

It must have to do with when you pause it.

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Also, how in the Gods' names would the Meta be able to contain O'Malley?

He wouldn't. Omega could leave whenever he wished. But why would he leave?

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Also, how in the Gods' names would the Meta be able to contain O'Malley?

"Contain"? The A.I.s and Maine seem to be on the same side. If O'Malley wants to help, nothing will keep him away. Delta was obviously worried about being convinced into helping the Meta; the same thing could've happen with Omega.

He wouldn't. Omega could leave whenever he wished. But why would he leave?

Exactly. He has a shitload of fellow A.I.s and equipment with him, all combined to be practically unstoppable. What's not to like?

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He wouldn't. Omega could leave whenever he wished. But why would he leave?

Because he's stuffed in a freaky insane person's helmet with a bunch of lesser A.I.'s. It'll slow down his plan of world domination, damn it! XD

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Exactly. He has a shitload of fellow A.I.s and equipment with him, all combined to be practically unstoppable. What's not to like?

Yes, but how will he persuade the A.I.'s to do his bidding? Delta doing world domination? Not happening.

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Because he's stuffed in a freaky insane person's helmet with a bunch of lesser A.I.'s. It'll slow down his plan of world domination, damn it! XD

No. They're going for more power, then they're going to the Alpha, then he's going to try and command them to take over the world, only he'll be a hundred times stronger than he would be with the alien plan.

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Because he's stuffed in a freaky insane person's helmet with a bunch of lesser A.I.'s. It'll slow down his plan of world domination, damn it! XD

Yeah, it will. I mean, imagine wanting to gain power and being stuck with the ability to warp time, change color, create shields, turn invisible, intercept and manipulate radio transmissions, and have super-strength! Even worse, you have to deal with a collection of intelligence programs designed for use as aid in military operations, all of whom have their own experience and unique knowledge gained from their hosts and during their creation. That would suck ass!

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Yes, but how will he persuade the A.I.'s to do his bidding? Delta doing world domination? Not happening.

World domination? Try wish-fulfillment. There's obviously something willing all of the A.I.s to seek the Alpha, and Omega and Delta are not immune.

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Yes, but how will he persuade the A.I.'s to do his bidding? Delta doing world domination? Not happening.

If it's Alpha related, maybe. Besides, Delta does whatever logic dictates. If logic dictates that he should take over the world, so be it.

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Yeah, it will. I mean, imagine wanting to gain power and being stuck with the ability to warp time, change color, create shields, turn invisible, intercept and manipulate radio transmissions, and have super-strength! Even worse, you have to deal with a collection of intelligence programs designed for use as aid in military operations, all of whom have their own experience and unique knowledge gained from their hosts and during their creation. That would suck ass!

Just because he shares a helmet with the other A.I.'s, doesn't mean he has unlimited access to their abilities. If he did, I don't think the Meta would still be in control, do you?

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Just because he shares a helmet with the other A.I.'s, doesn't mean he has unlimited access to their abilities. If he did, I don't think the Meta would still be in control, do you?

Who said Meta was still in control?

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If it's Alpha related, maybe. Besides, Delta does whatever logic dictates. If logic dictates that he should take over the world, so be it.

I highly doubt that logic dictates that an evil A.I. controlling the world would be a good thing.

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Who said Meta was still in control?

Because O'Malley is the classic villain. Even RT has said it. If he was in control, he would boast about it, and make an evil fortress of doom or somthing.

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I highly doubt that logic dictates that an evil A.I. controlling the world would be a good thing.

Doing what's logical doesn't mean doing what's good. It means doing what shall be successful, or what will bring the best outcome for those you want to come through.

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I still think that even Delta would realise it would be illogical to assist Omega.

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Because O'Malley is the classic villain. Even RT has said it. If he was in control, he would boast about it, and make an evil fortress of doom or somthing.

But he wasn't in complete control when it was just him and a person. Now there's an insane person and several AIs in the same body. Besides, there was that time where he laid low for a while and had Doc build the purple flying thing. Maybe he's lying low again.

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I still think that even Delta would realise it would be illogical to assist Omega.

But what if it isn't illogical? What if, by chance, it's logical?

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But he wasn't in complete control when it was just him and a person. Now there's an insane person and several AIs in the same body. Besides, there was that time where he laid low for a while and had Doc build the purple flying thing. Maybe he's lying low again.

He still talked to Doc and had arguments with him. With all the A.I. shit at his his disposal (if it can indeed actually be used), I'd have thought he'd have taken over already.

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Who said Meta was still in control?

Because O'Malley is the classic villain. Even RT has said it. If he was in control, he would boast about it, and make an evil fortress of doom or somthing.

But he wasn't in complete control when it was just him and a person. Now there's an insane person and several AIs in the same body. Besides, there was that time where he laid low for a while and had Doc build the purple flying thing. Maybe he's lying low again.

First of all, there's no one "Meta" to be in control. It's Agent Maine and a bunch of A.I.s, all of whom make up the Meta.

The Meta threw all kinds of stuff at Grif in a display of power. That sounds a lot like O'Malley to me.

All of the A.I.s probably alternate control with those who have the most experience in each situation: O'Malley shows off the newfound strength, for example, while others deal with different aspects (Epsilon operating the transmission manipulator?). Delta will probably be called upon for his common-sense analyses of situations.

...Leaving Maine as the host, good for little more than a suit and a beacon.

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He still talked to Doc and had arguments with him. With all the A.I. shit at his his disposal (if it can indeed actually be used), I'd have thought he'd have taken over already.

But he's still collecting power. Besides, he still has to go after the Alpha.

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With all the A.I. shit at his his disposal (if it can indeed actually be used), I'd have thought he'd have taken over already.

Maybe he has. Manipulation, drama (very slowly aiming that gun at Wash, and perhaps running out of time), displays of power, running when it gets too rough...who's to say that O'Malley hasn't been in charge the whole time?

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First of all, there's no one "Meta" to be in control. It's Agent Maine and a bunch of A.I.s, all of whom make up the Meta.

The Meta threw all kinds of stuff at Grif in a display of power. That sounds a lot like O'Malley to me.

All of the A.I.s probably alternate control with those who have the most experience in each situation: O'Malley shows off the newfound strength, for example, while others deal with different aspects (Epsilon operating the transmission manipulator?). Delta will probably be called upon for his common-sense analyses of situations.

...Leaving Maine as the host, good for little more than a suit and a beacon.

Meta is more fun to type, though. Makes sense. Maine might not even be thinking in there anymore.

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...Leaving Maine as the host, good for little more than a suit and a beacon.

*nods* It makes you wonder who made Maine like that in the first place then...

Maybe he has. Manipulation, drama (very slowly aiming that gun at Wash, and perhaps running out of time), displays of power, running when it gets too rough...who's to say that O'Malley hasn't been in charge the whole time?

God damn it! You and your awesome points! D8/8D

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Maybe he has. Manipulation, drama (very slowly aiming that gun at Wash, and perhaps running out of time), displays of power, running when it gets too rough...who's to say that O'Malley hasn't been in charge the whole time?

True... But why Wash?

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*nods* It makes you wonder who made Maine like that in the first place then...

Maybe Maine himself (+ original A.I.?). The Meta is seeking the Alpha A.I., and the desire had to start somewhere, most likely with Maine (or his A.I., of course).

Maybe he has. Manipulation, drama (very slowly aiming that gun at Wash, and perhaps running out of time), displays of power, running when it gets too rough...who's to say that O'Malley hasn't been in charge the whole time?

God damn it! You and your awesome points! D8/8D

8D

But that brings in the other side of the issue: Why's Wash in this?

True... But what Wash?

...Is that what I just said or something else entirely?

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Maybe it was Beta... Since we don't know who got Beta, and I'm pretty sure I'll like Beta.

The most likely choice is Eta.

Maine + Eta = Meta

Although...

Maine + Beta = Meta could work, too.

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But that brings in the other side of the issue: Why's Wash in this?

Because he can't be tempted by an A.I. Quite the opposite in fact. Also, he's had experience with the Meta before.

Ok, I agree with you on Omega. However, I refuse to believe Chuch and Tex are A.I.'s, however good the theory might sound.

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Because he can't be tempted by an A.I. Quite the opposite in fact. Also, he's had experience with the Meta before.

Yeah, that's why Command wanted Wash. Why is Wash still there? He killed South. His revenge has been had. What's left for him now? Money?

Ok, I agree with you on Omega. However, I refuse to believe Chuch and Tex are A.I.'s, however good the theory might sound.

Okay, then. Dropping the A.I. theory, why are Church and Tex ghosts when everyone else merely dies when they're killed?

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Yeah, that's why Command wanted Wash. Why is Wash still there? He killed South. His revenge has been had. What's left for him now? Money?

The Meta looted him when he was betrayed by South. He probably wants revenge. Also, the Meta is killing freelancers and stealing their shit. Wasn't Wash trying to prevent that in OoM? ANd he needs to get back the stolen A.I.'s anyway.

Okay, then. Dropping the A.I. theory, why are Church and Tex ghosts when everyone else merely dies when they're killed?

Just because we've not seen them, doesn't mean they don't have ghosts. Remember Sarge was a temporary ghost?

---

Yeah, that's why Command wanted Wash. Why is Wash still there? He killed South. His revenge has been had. What's left for him now? Money?

I don't think he's doing it for Command anymore. Maybe he has a score to settle with one of the AIs, or maybe Maine. Even if he didn't, he doesn't seem like the guy that would stop halfway through something. Or maybe, he's doing it for the AIs.

---

Sarge was never a ghost, he was just dead for a few minutes.

---

Sarge was never a ghost, he was just dead for a few minutes.]

I find that strangely amusing and I don't know why.

---

Sarge was never a ghost, he was just dead for a few minutes.

Yes he was! He was on the spiritual plane and Chuch took the piss out of him!

---

Yes he was! He was on the spiritual plane and Chuch took the piss out of him!

Exactly. He never came back as a ghost, just went to the Realm of the Dead, then got brought back to life.

---

The Meta looted him when he was betrayed by South. He probably wants revenge. Also, the Meta is killing freelancers and stealing their shit. Wasn't Wash trying to prevent that in OoM? ANd he needs to get back the stolen A.I.'s anyway.

Looted him? Wash still has the healing unit. It's what kept him alive. At most, he lost that - that radio transmission thing, but it's possible that he never had it and it had already been lost to the Meta, as your average soldier probably can't have two enhancements at once.

If it gets too dangerous - as in, "Damn, I'm gonna need a chain gun for five seconds' worth of shooting at this dude before he runs away to heal again" - most people would just drop out.

Note that he didn't hesitate to make the jump to Alpha as soon as Delta mentioned it. He must have been one of the freelancers who attempted to steal it, or he had access to information about the failed attempt. This could have been Epsilon's desire...or maybe his own.

I have a crazy theory that Epsilon turned suicidal and Wash turned coolly logical because of some failed process in the integration that may have swapped twaits between the two...but it's a crazy theory with no back-up.

Just because we've not seen them, doesn't mean they don't have ghosts. Remember Sarge was a temporary ghost?

A temporary ghost with absolutely no memory of the incident; the only proof that it happened lies with Church and Sheila, and Sheila never referenced it, while Church could have easily been hallucinating or had the scene simulated for him by some of those handy puppetmasters back at Command.

---

A temporary ghost with absolutely no memory of the incident; the only proof that it happened lies with Church and Sheila, and Sheila never referenced it, while Church could have easily been hallucinating or had the scene simulated for him by some of those handy puppetmasters back at Command.

We watched it though D8

Oh my god... what if all of the RvB characters are training A.I.'s, and thus just a training ground for freelancers?

You see the thoughts you are putting in my head!

---

We watched it though D8

So? Church is apparently very good at lucid hallucinations. An alternate ending had him imagining almost all of BGC.

Oh my god... what if all of the RvB characters are training A.I.'s, and thus just a training ground for freelancers?

That could be. Sarge could be an A.I., as well as the others. After all, Grif's survived more than most people should be able to, and Simmons is able to function normally as a cyborg and have that unexplained affinity with teleporters and the like. Caboose's mental state could have been O'Malley "taking some of the furniture": literally data, and--

You see the thoughts you are putting in my head!

-pokes above- You see how you make me run with it?!

---

Try watching Wash's speech in RvB:Re 12 while thinking that they're all A.I.s. He seems so mean. D8/XD

---

Dammit, I feel left out of this conversation.

Well... uh... you are... blue! Like Church! Or Caboose! Or Blue Team!

Right. Bluey would be a Blue (or a Red with a very unfortunate nickname XDD).

---

Well he basically tells them he whole thing's a set up.

---

Right. Bluey would be a Blue (or a Red with a very unfortunate nickname XDD).

She's so Blue.

*psst* Bluey! Come join Blue team with me! We rock!

---

Oh. You guys are talking about RvB episodes that I'll never be able to see with my shitty computer. -pops out-

---

*head desks until her brain is no more*

Seriously, though! It makes sense now! That's why they're so expendable, why the medic takes months to arrive. None of them are more than programs.

"You guys are nothing."

---

She's so Blue.

*psst* Bluey! Come join Blue team with me! We rock!

I think I'll have to side with the Reds on this one, even if their name makes 'em sound like communists and I'd actually be a Blue for posterity reasons. The Reds have Grif, damn it~

---

Seriously, though! It makes sense now! That's why they're so expendable, why the medic takes months to arrive. None of them are more than programs.

"You guys are nothing."

No! Stop it! I don't want to accept that they're not real!

Why must I always think up good theories for Jacob to expand on?!

DDDDDDDDDDD8

---

No! Stop it! I don't want to accept that they're not real!

Maybe Doc is. That, not his pacifist ideals, could be why they dropped him. He got shunted sideways, maybe manipulated into that pacifism - being told about the pointlessness of Red vs. Blue would convert anybody. They replaced him with Grif and let him in only to help their experiments.

That's why they passed him over in favor of Caboose even when he had more time with Omega. Why take a human when you could have an A.I.? Why would the Meta run from Church if he wasn't afraid that he knew a way to bring him down from the inside?

---

Maybe Doc is. That, not his pacifist ideals, could be why they dropped him. He got shunted sideways, maybe manipulated into that pacifism - being told about the pointlessness of Red vs. Blue would convert anybody. They replaced him with Grif and let him in only to help their experiments.

That's why they passed him over in favor of Caboose even when he had more time with Omega. Why take a human when you could have an A.I.? Why would the Meta run from Church if he wasn't afraid that he knew a way to bring him down from the inside?

*puts down Bluey, and then steals Sarge's shotgun, before pointing at your head*

---

*puts down Bluey, and then steals Sarge's shotgun, before pointing at your head*

Hey, I want Grif to be "real," too! I'm running with this because I can.

Speaking of making myself very sad...

Why wouldn't Grif mention Sister, even in passing, once in all of BGC? Were his "memories" of her only added in time for her to be introduced, perhaps to see what would happen when someone entirely new was thrown into the mix - someone who would be confused and further mess up the boundaries of Red and Blue? Just a test?

After all, if Command watched them all so closely, Sister's ship could hardly drop in unannounced and surprise them. It had to have been planned, allowed, or acknowledged at some level.

---

Hey, I want Grif to be "real," too! I'm running with this because I can.

Speaking of making myself very sad...

Why wouldn't Grif mention Sister, even in passing, once in all of BGC? Were his "memories" of her only added in time for her to be introduced, perhaps to see what would happen when someone entirely new was thrown into the mix - someone who would be confused and further mess up the boundaries of Red and Blue? Just a test?

After all, if Command watched them all so closely, Sister's ship could hardly drop in unannounced and surprise them. It had to have been planned, allowed, or acknowledged at some level.

*steps closer with the shotgun*

I have the sexier Sarge's rifle, then. :D

You clearly haven't played Halo 3. Shotgun pwns all at close range 8D

---

You guys are just hurting my head. Whoops, typed bread the first time.

Is it possible that RvB could be a St. Elsewhere?

St. Elsewhere- A medical drama in the 80s. In the series finale, it was revealed that the story was made up in the mind of an autistic child who was playing with a snowglobe that had a hospital in it.

---

*steps closer with the shotgun*

While I'm destroying Grif's reality...

He doesn't even seem very sure of his own appearance or opinion of himself. "I'm too good-looking to die!" implies that he places stake enough in his own looks to think of them in the midst of battle, but he raises no objection to Sarge's insults. Does Grif even know how he looks or what he thinks about his look?

Of course, he could just be going along with Sarge in the face of a beneficial truce. That'd be the smart move.

However, why is appearance almost never touched on in all of RvB? The only real mention is Tex's assertion that Church was taller than Sarge. That's it. It's too big a gap to ignore completely.

You clearly haven't played Halo 3. Shotgun pwns all at close range 8D

I so don't care. 8D

...

-gulp-

---

St. Elsewhere- A medical drama in the 80s. In the series finale, it was revealed that the story was made up in the mind of an autistic child who was playing with a snowglobe that had a hospital in it.

MESSAGE TO ANYONE WHO IS READING THIS:

If you happen to know where I could get a snow globe of Blood Gulch Canyon, I will pay greatly for it.

And not just in money either.

---

Is it possible that RvB could be a St. Elsewhere?

BGC was, in a way: after all, the war wasn't even real. However, the St. Elsewhere ending was touched upon once in an alternate ending for the season in which Church imagined the series; it wouldn't be brought back again.

However, the A.I. twist would be rather unexpected (has the "everyone is an A.I." thing even been touched upon in the RT forums?) and kind of similar.

---

MESSAGE TO ANYONE WHO IS READING THIS:

If you happen to know where I could get a snow globe of Blood Gulch Canyon, I will pay greatly for it.

And not just in money either.

1) Ditto.

2) Bow-chicka-bow-wow!

---

However, why is appearance almost never touched on in all of RvB? The only real mention is Tex's assertion that Church was taller than Sarge. That's it. It's too big a gap to ignore completely.

Oh come on! Everyone wants to know what's behind the helmets, which is why no one says anything! It adds to the mystery. And it was hinted that Tucker was black :)

I so don't care. 8D

...

-gulp-

Liar.

XD

---

Oh come on! Everyone wants to know what's behind the helmets, which is why no one says anything! It adds to the mystery.

Maybe more than we know. -cue dramatic music and lightning bolt-

And it was hinted that Tucker was black :)

XDDD Oh, yeah!

But he seemed as if he didn't want to answer. Natural reluctance or freaking programmed reluctance? They could be programmed to skip the topic altogether.

Although Simmons is pretty sure he's Dutch-Irish. ^^

Liar.

Uhm. -flees-

---

To me, it seems like RvB seems to be defying all forms of logic all together,

Not if they're all A.I.s! Then it all makes sense.

and so, I will try and figure out how Ravenwing is going to confront Shinestar and get banned from ThunderClan.

-drool-

... You didn't read that.

Didn't read what?

---

...I like how our conversation went from "Is Church an A.I.?" to "Oh, noes! They're all A.I.s!"

---

Nope~

JACOB...uhhh... I didn't give you a last name did I?

*thinks*

JACOB GRIF! YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED!

Do you not remember the episode where Tex throws a grenade onto Donut, and he's like " It's a blue spider? Get it off!"

*boom*

---

WHAT YOU SAID:

JACOB...uhhh... I didn't give you a last name did I?

*thinks*

JACOB GRIF! YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED!

WHAT I HEARD:

JACOB...blah... blah blah blah yak yak yak tl;dr

lalalala

JACOB GRIF! YOU SHOULD BE nowordsheremate

8DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

8DDDDDDDDD

8D

8D

8D

8D

8D

Homigosh. ♥

------------------

...That's a good ending note. 8D

8/28/2008 #2
Jon Stewart

And my tl;dr post from a few minutes later:

Speaking of making myself very sad...

Why wouldn't Grif mention Sister, even in passing, once in all of BGC? Were his "memories" of her only added in time for her to be introduced, perhaps to see what would happen when someone entirely new was thrown into the mix - someone who would be confused and further mess up the boundaries of Red and Blue? Just a test?

After all, if Command watched them all so closely, Sister's ship could hardly drop in unannounced and surprise them. It had to have been planned, allowed, or acknowledged at some level.

While I'm destroying Grif's reality...

He doesn't even seem very sure of his own appearance or opinion of himself. "I'm too good-looking to die!" implies that he places stake enough in his own looks to think of them in the midst of battle, but he raises no objection to Sarge's insults. Does Grif even know how he looks or what he thinks about his look?

Of course, he could just be going along with Sarge in the face of a beneficial truce. That'd be the smart move.

However, why is appearance almost never touched on in all of RvB? The only real mention is Tex's assertion that Church was taller than Sarge. That's it. It's too big a gap to ignore completely.

I'm going to expand this one.

If the BG soldiers are all A.I.s with limited ideas about their own appearances, there would have to be some way for this to develop - maybe based off of a suggestion, or a subconscious thought that is accepted as truth and drawn upon again later. For example, Grif is sure that Simmons is "of a Latino persuasion"; Simmons tells him that he's Dutch-Irish. The confusion could have come from conversations held at the beginning of their sentence, if you will, in Blood Gulch - Simmons had had little or no chance to give the idea of his own ethnicity much thought, and therefore no chance to take a subconscious idea and turn it into a certain or definite self-truth (even if it's literally untrue).

Grif never mentioned Sister, but, when presented with her, it seems that his mind immediately jumped to fill in the blank spots, as did hers. Why spill out their entire history to a group of relative strangers or people they didn't like if it wasn't something they felt they had to say, some kind of newfound identity?

It seems that the process was similar with Omega, but involved building upon Tex's own flimsy ideas. "Villain" to Tex may have meant that megalomaniacal mastermind from old movies, merely because it's all she had to work from; O'Malley drew from that to try and create the desired persona.

The Church and Tex story, too, may have been a fill-in-the-blanks kind of ordeal; Church first mentions having a girlfriend to Tucker and the rookie; this idea solidifies and expands further with the arrival of Tex. Concepts appear that seem to contradict the rather casual mention of Church's; marrying her when he "gets back" suddenly seems impossible and highly unlikely...because he didn't plan on it in the beginning?

Then, of course, there's Sarge's name. Perhaps he was never given one, and he just didn't care to think about it enough to find a definitive answer.

8/28/2008 #3
Amberglass7

Can you please do it in more than two posts this time?

8/28/2008 #4
Amberglass7

*sighs* I was too late...

8/28/2008 #5
Jon Stewart

Can you please do it in more than two posts this time?

I used three. 8D

8/28/2008 #6
Amberglass7

So, should I go the full length to try and disprove your theory, or just counter your points?

Choose, Tawn.

8/28/2008 #7
Amberglass7

I used three. 8D

Yeah, but that post is considered seperate.

8/28/2008 #8
Jon Stewart

So, should I go the full length to try and disprove your theory, or just counter your points?

Choose, Tawn.

Go all the way~ It's not like anyone has better things to do, right? 8D

Meanwhile, I'm going to analyze RvB:Re 12. Wash had some interesting lines.

8/28/2008 #9
Jon Stewart

Yeah, but that post is considered seperate.

Separate is still an extra post~

At least it's all right there. Easy to find, hard to miss.

8/28/2008 #10
Amberglass7

True. Give me a few minutes.

8/28/2008 #11
facelace

Am I being ignored?

8/28/2008 #12
Amberglass7

My arguments aren't working...

8/28/2008 #13
Amberglass7

Hi, Atom~ No, I'm just not reading posts...

8/28/2008 #14
Jon Stewart

"And that didn't strike anyone as odd, that you would have a kit to build a robot that looks like a soldier?"

The second rare bit of equipment the BGC guys have had, the first, of course, being Sheila, the "smart tank." If Wash didn't come right out and say that they were in a simulation in this episode, this line would've been proof enough.

"We don't really get out that often."

Simmons. They really don't leave Blood Gulch much, and, when they do, they very rarely come into contact with other soldiers. The only non-freelancers were the Reds who took Grif and Church captive and Phil, unless I'm forgetting someone. Looks like Command wanted their project to stay under wraps and in a controlled environment.

"You think you're real soldiers? You're not. You guys are nothing."

Wash could just be a real asshole...or it could a reference to the fact that they're all, y'know, artificial intelligence programs.

"You never noticed that you didn't have anything to do unless a freelancer showed up or you made a call to Command?"

In their defense, what else could there be to do that wouldn't involve freelancers or communication with their Command?

"Did he know what you are?"

A reference to Ghost!Church or...A.I.!Church? -dramatic music-

"We need to unlock the Alpha, and that means we're going home. We're going to Command."

So Command is home now? That's an odd comment coming from someone who apparently hates them or blames them for his injuries.

8/28/2008 #15
facelace

I'm leaving.

8/28/2008 #16
Jon Stewart

Okay, Atom.

I have a crazy theory that Epsilon turned suicidal and Wash turned coolly logical because of some failed process in the integration that may have swapped traits between the two...but it's a crazy theory with no back-up.

Home = Command would probably be an A.I.'s train of thought...now home = Command is Wash's take on things?

8/28/2008 . Edited 8/28/2008 #17
Amberglass7

You forgot the crazy flag guys.

8/28/2008 #18
Jon Stewart

You forgot the crazy flag guys.

The grunts? -shrug- If anything was a sim, that was.

And they were never ghosts. They just got back up and kept fighting - no A.I.-like projection. Healing units, perhaps, or something similar to what reawakened Flowers?

8/28/2008 . Edited 8/28/2008 #19
Amberglass7

Yeah, because they all died, then they all came back, then they all died, then they all came back...

8/28/2008 #20
Amberglass7

And they were never ghosts. They just got back up and kept fighting - no A.I.-like projection. Healing units, perhaps, or something similar to what reawakened Flowers?

I was thinking it was like when Wyoming kept going back in time to win, except without it being time, and without the copies.

8/28/2008 #21
Jon Stewart

I was thinking it was like when Wyoming kept going back in time to win, except without it being time, and without the copies.

It certainly sounds like a sim, though. I mean, what better way to analyze battle strategies than seeing a bunch of overeager soldiers kill each other...again and again and again?

They all apparently need to be dead to restart the simulation, too, as the last Red standing kills himself at the end of the battle.

8/28/2008 #22
Amberglass7

Yeah...

8/28/2008 #23
Lei-lassassin

You missed a section. The bit where I point a sniper rifle at you, then you get a turret, and then I throw a 'blue spider'.

8/28/2008 . Edited 8/28/2008 #24
Amberglass7

Yeah, you forgot that part~

8/28/2008 #25
Jon Stewart

You missed a section. The bit where I point a sniper rifle at you, then you get a turret, and then I throw a 'blue spider'.

...Oh, well. :D

Maybe Maine is doing nothing. Maybe the guy's AI combined their names and took over. For all we know, Maine never cared about the Alpha, or even wanted more AIs... Or have you been saying this and I'm to thick to notice?

We've kind of been saying that. Maine could have wanted to seek the Alpha, but it's probably a desire of his A.I., whomever that may be. He could've acquired it himself after spending enough time with the A.I. in his head, or he could have been overpowered by the A.I.(s) and had his original aim discarded in favor of their joint goal.

8/28/2008 #26
Lei-lassassin

Alpha

Beta

Gamma

Delta

Epsilon

Zeta

Eta

Theta

Iota

Kappa

Lambda

Mu

Nu

Xi

Omicron

Pi

Rho

Sigma

Tau

Upsilon

Phi

Chi

Psi

Omega

What do you reckon, Jacob? Amber?

8/28/2008 . Edited 8/28/2008 #27
Amberglass7

Omicron

I like this one~

8/28/2008 #28
Jon Stewart

What do you reckon, Jacob? Amber?

RvB or personal standpoint? XD

8/28/2008 #29
Lei-lassassin

:D

Sigma, Kappa, and Omicron...

*thinks*

8/28/2008 #30
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