It is said that these two were lovers what is your intake on them?
Achilles loved Breseis, as stated in the Illiad and the movie of Troy, but what do you really think happened.
I believe that they loved each other more than they could love a woman.12/1/2008 #1
I actually do have an opinion about ancient Greek men. It's not completely related to your topic, but on that note; isn't Patroclus (forgive my spelling) Achilles' cousin? Anyway, I strongly believe that in Ancient times, specially in Greece, gender was never an issue to be discriminated for everyone was gay, specially the men. I think Greek men really are great lookers in comparison to their women so it's not weird for them to be in love with men, and just be with women in order to procreate. I think...3/16/2009 #2
Haha, that's sort of what I thought, too. And Patroclus was Achilles' best friend, not cousin. The movie Troy screwed up ^.^3/18/2009 #3
No Patroclus was Achilles' lover. But "best friend" pretty much equated to the same thing in the Greek world. "Homosexuality" wasn't even a separate way of being, Greeks didn't have a name for it. It was perfectly natural to love a woman, have a wife, and have male olovers. Best friends screwd each other all the time.
Homophobia is actually a production of indoctrination; being taught an idea form a babe and growing up thinking it is truth.
So the translators, up until recently, we homophobic retards that had gave no value to accuracy or truth and twisted things to fit their own fearful ways.
He was his "cousin" in Troy because the movie sold to the western, Christian-ized, "man on man is evil" demons running around in their heads, ignorant masses.2/8/2010 #4
No necessarily more, though many philosophers, including Aristotle, said that the love of a man for another man was "purer" than a woman's because women where fickle.
Yes Patroclus was Achilles' lover and closest friend. Movie had to sell Americans, but it would have outraged the ancient Greeks.
Greeks didn't have a "name" for man love, love was love, whereever. Like the second comment says, they did not have in discrimination with gender. beauty was beauty and immortalized in art and love stories.
There is even females with females. Iphis and Ianthe. Callisto a nymph of Artemis' fell in love with he goddess, but Artemis fixedly remains virgin so did not sexually respond to her. Zeus, the number one player, took advantage of that and turned himself into his daughter Artemis to sleep with Callisto.
The movie 300 was a joke too. King Leonidus criticizing the Athenians for being "boy lovers' when the Spartan were even more gay. Before going to war the prayed in the temple of Eros (Cupid) who was god of love between a woman and man as well as men. The spartans encouraged their warriors to become lovers in order to fight more fiercly and paired them up in the Phalanx.
Hyancinth was a Spartan who was lover of Apollo, killed by the jealou Zephyr god of Wind who also wanted him. Apollo and Zephyr challenged each other in games to impress the young man. Ganymede was a Trojan prince kidnapped by Zeas, raped and forcfully made the god's lover, also becoming the new cup bearer.
They don't teach you these in school. No it's Hade and Persephone (eye roll).2/8/2010 #5
No, they don't REALLY teach Hades and Persephone to children either. Just Zeus and Hera, Poseidon and Amphitrite, Cupid and Pysche. Just all the GOOD stories, the ones that supposingly teach good morals. The other stories, well, they like to twist around. Put the gods in a good light, make them seem like perfectly good people, just lounging around, happy and content with their place on Olympus. This is what modern society sees is "right".
The ancient greeks would have been outraged at what we have done to their religion.
(Disney's Hercules. Seriously?)10/26/2010 #6
Actually that's the thing about the movie "Troy". It was horrible and historically inaccurate. But you are wrong about the relationship of Patroclus and Achilles. Menoetius is the father of Patroclus, Menoetius who is counted among the Argonauts is son of Actor and Aegina, the daughter of the river god Asopus who was seduced by Zeus, which means that Aeacus, the grandfather of Achilles, was his half-brother. This means that Partroclus is uncle to Achilles an the elder of the two. There was no homosexual relationship between Partoclus and Achilles. Why should you believe propaganda?1/21/2011 #7
Actually that's the thing about the movie "Troy". It was horrible and historically inaccurate. But you are wrong about the relationship of Patroclus and Achilles. Menoetius is the father of Patroclus, Menoetius who is counted among the Argonauts is son of Actor and Aegina, the daughter of the river god Asopus who was seduced by Zeus, which means that Aeacus, the grandfather of Achilles, was his half-brother. This means that Partroclus is uncle to Achilles an the elder of the two. There was no homosexual relationship between Partoclus and Achilles. Why should you believe propaganda?1/21/2011 #8
|Forum Moderators: Subject37|
|Membership Length: 2+ years 1 year 6+ months 1 month 2+ weeks new member|