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goneGrimlight

You see, they are truing to reinforce the policy that the site does not allow and never has allowed MA rated fics. Good joke, FF.net. I wonder if they realise what protion of their content is actually just smut? No doubt they do, but they have never done anything about it. Why bother to remind us of a rule no one will ever follow? It's just what people want to read.

6/4/2012 #1
Nimbus Llewelyn

The first part of that I agree with (seriously, it makes up at least a quarter of the HP fandom). The second... hmm.

6/4/2012 #2
Morthoron

You see, they are truing to reinforce the policy that the site does not allow and never has allowed MA rated fics. Good joke, FF.net. I wonder if they realise what protion of their content is actually just smut?

I am more irritated at people incapable of spelling correctly than complaining about smut, particularly at a site dedicated to writing.

As far as smut/porn being what people want to read, I would say no; I would suggest it's what people frustrated with their own miserable lives wish to write. It's rather like writers insinuating themselves into stories so they might have a meaningful relationship with a character, rather than with their hand.

6/4/2012 #3
Thranduil Oropherion Redux

the site does not allow and never has allowed MA rated fics.

One minor correction -- FFN allowed NC-17 stories years ago. They disappeared over the course of a weekend shutdown back in 2002. Without warning, according to some people; with warning according to others. Thus AFF was born.

I wonder if they realise what protion of their content is actually just smut?

I think they may have just done that and decided to clean house. That seems to happen every few years.

Why bother to remind us of a rule no one will ever follow? It's just what people want to read.

Really? I does seem to be what some people want to read and write, especially in some of the more highly erotically charged fandoms that are pretty much breathless erotica to begin with. But god forbid I should ever agree with Diana Gabaldon and say that some fanfiction is little more than playing with action figures by putting them into naughty poses. It is, though, in some cases. The joys of seeing my favorite LOTR character in bed and getting down to it got old really fast. For some people it hasn't, and that's fine -- just not here.

What upset me yesterday was (what turned out to be) the erroneous report that FFN was deleting all M stories the way it had done with the NC-17s. The submission guidelines had said that M was allowed and it had given us the parameters, and at least some of us had learned those parameters and followed them. So understand, people, if you want to read and write fuckfics there are plenty of other archives at which to post them. Yes, it's frustrating that you can't do it here, but there are plenty of even stupider FFN rules to try to squeek around.

6/4/2012 #4
piewacket

Why bother to remind us of a rule no one will ever follow? It's just what people want to read.

That is completely absurd. So, since lots of people break the law, I guess we should do away with all laws? And not everyone wants to read smut.

I have no problem with a private site setting whatever rules it wants to set. I will do my best to abide by them or choose to post elsewhere. My only issue is the ambiguity that exists. However, since James did agree that M rating equates roughly to a movie R, I think I have a pretty good handle on it. The problem is tweenies who don't understand the difference and report anything that has any sex in it at all.

6/4/2012 #5
Nimbus Llewelyn

I get confused when people use the name James on here. I never know if they're talking about me or not. In my opinion, tweens have no place on this site.

6/4/2012 #6
Thranduil Oropherion Redux

That is completely absurd. So, since lots of people break the law, I guess we should do away with all laws? And not everyone wants to read smut.

The problem with the MA rule-breakers is that other writers look at their stories and use them as a benchmark for what this site considers M. And then you get more of the same. It's actually pretty easy for me to ignore stories I don't want to read. I do it all the time. But then you get people reporting anything and everything and the admins come down like a ton of bricks.

So much of my frustration yesterday came from people misreporting what was going on and not having a clue about the difference between M and MA here at FFN. It is not the same distinction between M and MA at the MEFAs or on AO3. I think I have a pretty good handle on it too, which is why a number of my stories are posted only on sites where they are acceptable.

6/4/2012 #7
Silver-hair Angel

You see, they are truing to reinforce the policy that the site does not allow and never has allowed MA rated fics. Good joke, FF.net. I wonder if they realise what protion of their content is actually just smut? No doubt they do, but they have never done anything about it. Why bother to remind us of a rule no one will ever follow? It's just what people want to read.

So, no one should follow laws because people are going to continue breaking laws until the end of time?

FFN doesn't want it here anymore; they haven't wanted it here since 2002. Find a better argument.

6/4/2012 #8
Silver-hair Angel

The problem with the MA rule-breakers is that other writers look at their stories and use them as a benchmark for what this site considers M. And then you get more of the same. It's actually pretty easy for me to ignore stories I don't want to read. I do it all the time. But then you get people reporting anything and everything and the admins come down like a ton of bricks. So much of my frustration yesterday came from people misreporting what was going on and not having a clue about the difference between M and MA here at FFN. It is not the same distinction between M and MA at the MEFAs or on AO3. I think I have a pretty good handle on it too, which is why a number of my stories are posted only on sites where they are acceptable.

FFN should really make that clear. It's the reason I've never reported any story for being too 'explicit'-- or MA. I have my own idea of what MA might be, but apparently everyone else does, too. And a critical rule like that should not be open to subjectivity on such a wide scale.

And I have nothing against MA stories. Hell, I've written some on here myself way back when. But if it doesn't belong, then that's just it. I just think that once FFN makes up its mind about what MA actually is, then I can definitively say that certain stories aren't allowed.

6/4/2012 . Edited 6/4/2012 #9
Thranduil Oropherion Redux

And I have nothing against MA stories. Hell, I've written some on here myself way back when. But if it doesn't belong, then that's just it. I just think that once FFN makes up its mind about what MA actually is, then I can definitively say that certain stories aren't allowed.

Don't quote me on this, but I recall reading that FFN got rid of the NC-17 material to avoid having stories posted like Agony In Pink or Celebrian -- really rank, raunchy stuff. They were afraid of the backlash from the original copyright holders if something like that happened. And the only way to make sure was to ban the NC-17 entirely so no one could argue their extremely graphic story didn't cross the line into unacceptable.

Unfortunately FFN uses a rather conservative ratings system, and a person's definition of graphic is subjective. Mine is liberal enough to say a couple is making love and they are having those special moments without every single thrust and groan being delineated. Kelvin's definition is any sex at all, and there's the problem.

6/4/2012 #10
Thranduil Oropherion Redux

So, no one should follow laws because people are going to continue breaking laws until the end of time?

Right. Just because everyone drive at 40mph through the school zone doesn't mean you won't be arrested if a cop sees you're the one doing it.

6/4/2012 #11
Morthoron

Hey, everyone's avatars are back on the lefthand side. It's obvious that all this talk of porn is sinister.

6/4/2012 #12
Silver-hair Angel

Don't quote me on this, but I recall reading that FFN got rid of the NC-17 material to avoid having stories posted like Agony In Pink or Celebrian -- really rank, raunchy stuff.

Huh? I haven't heard of that story before.

They were afraid of the backlash from the original copyright holders if something like that happened. And the only way to make sure was to ban the NC-17 entirely so no one could argue their extremely graphic story didn't cross the line into unacceptable.

Understandable. FFN would be useless if too many copyright holders decided that they didn't want their material to be showcased on this site anymore.

Unfortunately FFN uses a rather conservative ratings system, and a person's definition of graphic is subjective. Mine is liberal enough to say a couple is making love and they are having those special moments without every single thrust and groan being delineated. Kelvin's definition is any sex at all, and there's the problem.

I've been arguing this for years.

I think that sex is allowed, personally, but not huge, overbearing descriptions of what's happening.

6/4/2012 #13
Nimbus Llewelyn

It's obvious that all this talk of porn is sinister.

Hopefully it can be left behind.

6/4/2012 #14
piewacket

Hey, everyone's avatars are back on the lefthand side. It's obvious that all this talk of porn is sinister.

*groans* --- In a strictly T rated manner only. ;)

6/4/2012 #15
Morthoron

*groans* --- In a strictly T rated manner only. ;)

Bah! You've ruined a perfectly good joke!

6/4/2012 #16
militaryhistory

Huh? I haven't heard of that story before.

Agony in Pink was a Power Rangers torture porn fic involving the Pink Ranger--I don't know which one. Celebrian was an awful, awful porn fic involving Elrond's wife having sex with Orcs. Repeatedly.

6/4/2012 #17
Thranduil Oropherion Redux

Celebrian was kind of like Story of O Meets Tolkien. I was spoofing certain elements of that story in Ransom At the Redhorn.

I've had the misfortune to read Agony in Pink, and it was about the vilest thing I've ever read. Whoever wrote it was sick.

6/4/2012 . Edited 6/4/2012 #18
Zoop

Celebrian was an awful, awful porn fic involving Elrond's wife having sex with Orcs. Repeatedly.

That is just sick. My gods. Who would ever think to... oh wait... um... [darts eyes around] Heheh... [whistles innocently] [scoots own fics under the rug with a foot] [edges away to hide]

I was spoofing certain elements of that story in Ransom At the Redhorn.

Read this. LOVED it! Nearly peed my pants. Didn't read the one you were spoofing, but then I managed quite well with Bored of the Rings without first reading the original back in the day. ;)

Anyone else unsubscribing from WA until the whole 'purge' blows over just to clear the inbox of new topic alerts on the same damn subject?

6/5/2012 #19
Thranduil Oropherion Redux

You must get around to reading Celebrian one of these days. It puts fandom hair on your chest.

As for WA, I'm discouraged and a little drunk, so I'd best hold my tongue. Once Irindiglo shows up, all rational discussion has left the building.

6/5/2012 #20
piewacket

Actually, Irin and I had a nice little convo.

6/5/2012 #21
Ragnelle

I never subscribe to forums or topics, I hate getting too many alerts in my e-mail. It just make me avoid checking it, and then I see it quicker on the forums. It seems to have calmed down a little (or maybe I'm just hoping). At least more of the regular kind of treads are on the front-page again. I think a lot of the regular members began to be rather fed up.

Irin- if that is who I think, then she has behaved rather well, after the first clash.

6/5/2012 #22
Silver-hair Angel

As for WA, I'm discouraged and a little drunk, so I'd best hold my tongue. Once Irindiglo shows up, all rational discussion has left the building.

She basically used the WA to fire another shot at the LU. She saw LUers there and...well, you know how she is. I read what happened. Glad I wasn't there; civility goes out the window when she's concerned.

Actually, Irin and I had a nice little convo.

How is that possible?

6/6/2012 #23
A.A. Pessimal

Elrond looked with sympathy and concern at his wife. It was several-score years now since her ordeal in the Orc-holds and her rescue. She had been quiet about it and hadn't really spoken much of whatever terrors she had suffered. And in any case, the birth of the twins had been a happy event that had given her something to occupy her time and attention.

But something was wrong.... Elrond looked out of the window to where the twins were severally at play. Elladan, tall, noble, sturdy in his bearing, commanding as only a descendent of Luthien and Beren should be, half-Elven maybe, but one who would command and be willingly followed; as if frim a long-distant age, the light, distilled and dilute, but there nonetheless, of the Trees and the Silmarils of memory, playing about him.

And Elrohir. Yes. Elrohir. With that rather unruly pet.... dog... of his. So large he could ride on its back. His skin a healthy mottled grey-green. His even glowing white... tusks. His command of language, in particular the Black tongue of Mordor.

Elrond looked away, shaking his head. He turned to Celebrian, who was placidly working on a tapestry.

"Your...er.... torments, in the den of the Orcs" he began, uncertainly. "They didn't include..... er.... you know?"

"I really have no idea what you're talking about, dear." she replied, evenly. Shre st down her tapestry and picked up a scroll.

"You know. Thing." Elrond persisted.

She shrugged, perplexed.

"Can't you be more specific, dear?"

He gave up.

From outside came the merry cries of boys at play.

"On, Rivendell!"

"Shugluk paralgul snotrag ul alcatraz!"

A passing servant screamed as Elrohir's pet dog took a playful bite.

"I'l have to talk to him about getting that animal housetrained", thought Elrond, frowning.

Celebrian looked up from her scroll.

"What are you reading, dear?" he asked.

"It's a sales brochure, dear. Luxury cruises to Elfholme. I'm rather inclined to go on one. You know, me and some of the girls. We deserve it!"

Elrond sighed. He knew when he was beaten.

7/29/2012 . Edited 7/29/2012 #24
Thranduil Oropherion Redux

"Shugluk paralgul snotrag ul alcatraz!"

ROFL! Worthy of Doug Kenny.

7/29/2012 #25
The Lauderdale

...Elven conception is pretty darn weird, but I don't think it's retroactive (the twins already being adults in 2509).

That said, I k'snorted.

In a completely different vein, I actually read Clodia's The Loneliness of the Fishermouse the other night, and it sort of took me apart and put me back together again. It's the best "Celebrian" fic I've ever read, and it isn't even really about her.

7/29/2012 . Edited 7/29/2012 #26
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