The Children of Lorelei
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kochan1
- Hey all, the following is something I forwarded to a mod from the Adult Fanfiction Net Site. They'll pass this onto someone who will take notice (and action) hopefully. Hi there. Saw your post on AFFNBR and thought I'd reply as I've been on the receiving end of one of those removals 3 years back, and then again just 2 weeks back. Most people voicing their opinions on the groups seem to be concerned about story removals from inappropriate ratings. While I've had that experience before, it's not what I was hoping to have you mention to the FFN owners about. The email I received upon having the story removed was as follows: Main reason for removal: "Non-story: lists, notes, polls, announcement, and etc" The above story has been removed because it violated the guideline detailed on the upload page. This infraction has been recorded and once you reach a certain limit, your account be automatically banned. Moreover, as a result of this infraction, you will not have upload access for a period of time. *** Guidelines on FFN are as follows: Entries not allowed: 1. Non-stories: lists, bloopers, polls, previews, challenges, author notes, and etc. 2. One or two liners. 3. MST: comments inserted in between the flow of a copied story. 4. Stories with non-historical and non-fictional characters: actors, musicians, and etc. 5. Any form of interactive entry: choose your adventure, second person/you based, Q&As, and etc. 6. Chat/script format and keyboard dialogue based entries. *** Where I went wrong (I believe) is replying to people who had reviewed the first chapter of the story and having the replies posted at the end. Mostly one liners like 'Thanks for taking the time to read the fic. Hope you enjoyed it.' That kind of thing. Review replies within stories were disallowed after the 21st of November 2005, as I learnt, and suffered the consequences for not keeping in touch with the news. But I broke the law and got burnt, ok. Thing is...just in the month of January alone, 2 other people also had their stories deleted with mine from the fandom. They didn't have reviewer replies in there (one went so far to strip his latest chapters of those replies and warn others not to do the same after the first deletion, only to have his taken out for a small note). I spend 16-18 hours on drafting, writing and polishing a 2000 word chapter (no exaggeration) before it goes online and it only takes someone 10-15 seconds to click on the report abuse button which smites it. I don't feel as poorly about the loss of reviews (collected over 3 years) as the others but everyone feels the sting at some point, in some way. There seems to be a Zero Tolerance policy on point 1 above and I guess what I'm saying is that it could be a little harsh. While I accept that it's up to FFN to make their rules and for us to abide by them or go elsewhere, I like to think that they'd work with the community that make them up (rather than rule them with an iron fist). I'm not asking for the reviews back, the story to be put back up or anything like that (it's already been edited and reposted). But I did have a suggestion or two, particularly with the Author's Notes. With Author's notes closing a story, I guess published writers penning novels tend not to need them as they explain everything they need to in the course of the story. With fanfiction and short stories, one needs more skill to put information like such in whilst maintaining the pace of the story. Considering the level of skill with which most authors write on the site, it's doubtful that too many can do that. As an example: Kris/Keris: A distinctive, asymmetrical dagger indigenous to Malaysia and Indonesia. Krises are spiritual weapons and often have an essence of either good or bad luck. Provided the notes don't go on past say...a few lines, would this would be acceptable? Also, does the Disclaimer count as an Author's Note? I'm sure some people would like include a small part of 25-50 words at the beginning of the story, a dedication of some sort perhaps. A part like that in closing the final chapter of a story perhaps? Perhaps it would be alright for them to tell us what we could do, rather than just tell us what we can't? A sample template available for download for how many words the Author's Notes should be, where it could be, where to use line breaks and where not to. Would this be fine? I also understand that the staff are short of time and can't look at each fic that comes under scrutiny but what about sharing the workload about? I'm not really talking about establishing a police force on the site but having individual communities to help themselves perhaps? Having complaints submitted to someone who's volunteered and been screened by the admin perhaps? (chosen from subscribed members perhaps). That person can highlight the offending part of the story and reply on behalf on FFN as to how to fix it. If the warning isn't heeded, final decision can rest with the admin themselves. Some fandoms (like Harry Potter for example) will prob need a few of these people. It just stops people from abusing the system to have stories they don't personally like removed. The way it is on our fandom now, there's just a general sense of fear about not knowing when someone's fic could be removed again. We'd been likening them to terrorist bombings at a crowded marketplace, not knowing when it'd happen and who it'd happen to. I myself keep thinking that there'll be another email from Admin anytime soon to tell me that another of my fics has been removed and my account subsequently suspended for the 3rd infraction within my 4 years there. I didn't join FFN to live in fear - you can probably understand...and it IS worse now that it was before :) Anyway - this email is long enough as it is. Hope you don't mind listening me rant, but I like to think a few suggestions rather than just complaints might be lighter on the ear. I'd would GREATLY appreciate if you could pass the above onto FFN admin, even if they don't take the above seriously :) . Thanks and Regards Wye-Khe 'Ko-Chan' Kwok
2/2/2006 . Edited 2/2/2006 #1
Scrooge
As much as I would love to see FanFiction.net make certain guideline changes or at least give us more clarity as to what the user is doing wrong so the same mistake would not happen twice, I strongly doubt any action will be taken. For those that don't know, one of my stories was removed and the only reason why I can think of why it was removed was because of this Author's Note: "AUTHOR'S NOTE: Author's Note and Reviewer's Comments have been posted in the forum board. CHECK IT OUT! DISCLAIMER: Dead Or Alive & Ninja Gaiden are sole property of Team Ninja/Tecmo. All characters related to their products are used purely for entertainment purposes. I do not own their copyrights." And on the funny side, I created this author's note to try to not go against their guidelines. Before my Author's Note was filled with announcements, updates, and even non-story related stuff, plus at the bottom, I would reply to reviewer's comments as you mentioned in your post. But I changed all of that to follow FFNs guidelines to keep my story from being removed, and still it was removed for what I think could only be the Author's Note. I've already made my post on what I think about the entire ordeal. Whatever happens, just happens: http://www.fanfiction.net/fr/859197/6174/159500/1/ While I still strongly doubt FFN will raise a finger, I sincerely hope that FFN takes notice to your post and in turn hopefully can bring about some new order to FFN and its users, and to show my support I would like send the request you mentioned in your E-Mail. Is there an E-Mail address I can send to? Maybe it'll take more than the effort of one person or two. Maybe the entire site needs to speak up. Like you said this is their site and not ours, but what they are failing to realize is that it is writers and readers that make up the site. It's the writers and readers that passed the word on about the site to where there are practically millions of stories online now. FFN has the authority to make and abide by their guidelines as they please and we aren't trying to control them, just asking for a little lineacy. And if they can't listen to the people that make up their site and has brought them so much traffic, then maybe FFN isn't for us.
2/6/2006 #2
kochan1
Like yourself, I don't really expect FFN to do anything about the suggestions I asked to be sent to them. It wasn't really the reason I asked for what I emailed through to be forwarded. but I have come forth and given suggestions rather than just sit back and complainl. Petitions have been started by others and ignored in the past and the only thing that really seems to get their attention is the threat of a law suit. We're in the minority here as the bulk of people who cry out against FFN are the slash writers who were burnt by the NC-17 sweep 4 years 3 year back. Their (unspoken) advice to unhappy users has always be the same - Feel free to go elsewhere if you don't like it here. Scrooge, As for the email address - you're on the same groups as I am on the Yahoo AFNN beta readers. One of the mods from AFNN posted a message there.
2/7/2006 #3
TigerEyes2
I also doubt much will be done about it but I agree that saying something and making your voice heard is always better than just sitting around grumbling without even giving it a try. About the NC-17 ban it was ironic to me that it was ironic to me that it started THE DAY I posted destiny *laughs* no but honestly I told Jared way back then that I believed that ban would be the start on a long road of censorship/abusing of reporting. Alot of which would have been solved if only people would watch their own children and set boundries and not expect web sites and such to do it for them. Not that kids don't do what they are taught not to they do but if mommy and daddy don't want their child seeing or doing certain things there are ways to take care of it before expecting everyone else to. It is a sad thing for people to feel like they have to be afraid to post and I have wondered myself about how much this happens in some of the other fandoms where I know some way insane stuff gets posted without the batting of an eye. It seems that the note thing is a big issue and I agree that we need a clearer outline of what exactly is permitted in a note and what is not. I also think things like disclaimers and dedications if kept to a short minimum should be included as well. Hopefully that at least will be cleared up if nothing else so people aren't biting their nails when they check their emails just imagining their 30+ hours of work has been deleted over a thank you note. Crossing my fingers for luck TigerEyes2
2/7/2006 #4
Scrooge
While I respect everyone's opinion, I think I gave off the wrong impression. While it may seem like I'm sitting here complaining while not taking any action, I can assure that is not the case at all. The main reason why I believe FFN will not do anything to satisfy the people that make their site is because there have been several occasions I have tried getting in touch with the mods and admins of the site in an attempt to inquire and make suggestions. Back on December 16, I even submitted a trouble ticket looking for clarification on their guildelines, rules, and regulations: [q]Your ticket has been received, one of the staff members will review it and reply accordingly. Listed below are details of this ticket, Please make sure the Ticket ID remains in the subject at all times. Ticket ID: JWG-450894 Subject: Guideline Question Department: General QA Priority: Medium Status: Open You can check the status or reply to this ticket online at: http://support.fanfiction.net/index.php?_m=tickets&_a=viewticket&ticketid=2085[/q] This ticket was submitted back in December 16 of last year and to this day the status is still "Open" with no answers/updates. The conclusion I come to that is FFN will not even take the time to clarify to its members and try to help them from making any mistakes to prevent their stories from being removed. As you can see, though I do admit I complain, I have valid reasons, because I have taken actions to try to get some type of information out of FFN (the ticket note above is the only recorded proof I have, but it is not my only attempt), each attempt was unsuccessful because FFN chooses not to respond and communication, rather, just do as they please. Even as of now, I'm looking into the forums board and reading messages and posts mentioned by kochan, trying to get more information so I can once again do my part in either taking action towards FFN or simply moving on to another source. I just wanted to clarify, that though I do admit to complaining (lol, I'll even admit to the whining), it is not all I have been doing. I have taken some type of action to try to get some types of answers and replies from FFN.
2/8/2006 #5
kochan1
Tiger: I think you're safe personally. That fic never crossed anyone I don't think ;) As mentioned, some room for notes would be nice. short of writing in history lessons in the middle of one's stories. Scrooge: I wasn't referring to you personally when mentioning about the complaining. Moreso to what I've seen on certain forum threads on yahoo groups, people merely whinging without mentioning about possible solutions. As for attempting to contact FFN admin directly...let's just say that their track record for replying to members isn't great. :p Good luck though. The following are excerpts from Wikipedia's entry on Fanfiction.net *** Policies and controversies Controversies have sprung up as a result of changes in the site's policy through the years and the removal of works that violated these policies. A large percentage of authors on the site claim that policies were often established without explanation and enforced without warning. Some authors who have had work removed have claimed that they did not violate any policies and that requests for clarification have gone unanswered. Story removals FanFiction.Net's policy decisions have sometimes attracted controversy from authors who believe either the policies themselves or their enforcement to be unfair or otherwise problematic. Some critics claim that their stories have been improperly deleted from the site when they are not actually in violation of any policy. The absence of any appeal process, warning, or feedback form has contributed to the perception of unfairness. Many stories written in script format were deleted without warning in 2004. A small group of authors have agreed to protest the deletion of at leas 32 of their stories, although this is but a small portion of the 'unfair' deletions (it is up for debate whether or not the deletions were unfair, though there are many authors on the site who agree that it was). Lack of disclosure Authors say that FanFiction.Net mercilessly remove stories that allegedly comply with their rules and regulations without explanation or warning, giving no time for authors to move their fics elsewhere. Many authors on FanFiction.Net have expressed disappointment and anger regarding this issue. They have asked FanFiction.Net's admins for explanations and apologies but never receive responses. Public requests have been made for explanations, but FanFiction.Net has stayed silent on the subject. # 2005 * Cease and desist letters are sent by the MPAA to many fan fiction archives, alleging trademark infringement on the part of sites for using their ratings system. FanFiction.Net, along with many other archives, migrate to the Fiction Ratings system. * FanFiction.Net begins a more aggressive movement to remove works that do not comply with their policies. Complaints by the authors of some of the removed works are alleged to have been unanswered by staff members. * FanFiction.Net, in a move that many authors did not like, bans 'responding to reviews', in which the author can 'talk' to their reviewers. This measure is criticized because it prevents the authors from giving clues and informing their readers, turning communication between author and audience into a one-way street. An upset author begins a petition to abolish this rule. (At the time of this writing, it has about 80 of 200 signatures.) On November 21, 2005, FF.Net added a "reply" link on signed reviews, which allowed one reply per review and sent them directly to the reviewer's e-mail address. * 1UP.com uploads to their "features" section "In the Name of Love," which notes the various aspects of how fans of video games show their like (or dislike) of various games and/or characters. The article is particularly critical of FanFiction.Net, citing poor quality control. [20] * Fanfiction.net adds a forum feature, allowing users to create up to five (later increased to ten) forums, but only one in any category. ***
2/8/2006 #6
TigerEyes2
Yes I suppose your right I think if that story bothers anyone its me of course thats not for the reason I was speaking of above though *wink* Honestly though I was kidding when I mentioned destiny I wasn't though when I mentioned that if people watched over the little ones censorship wouldn't have to run rampant. What we are experiencing now I believe as I stated is the long after effects of that censorship continuing in a way anyhow. That and I think to at least some degree petty people simply reporting whatever they might for whatever reason. I highly doubt most people who report TRULY do it because the nothing vexes them. I wasn't speaking of Scrooge when I mentioned people complaining I too was speaking of other forums and such I have seen. I understand what he means though about sending something in to the admins and waiting forever for a reply that has happened to me on other sites.
2/8/2006 #7
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