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Kingdom Hearts 3D rocks

New Moon has 8 or so blank pages. Pretty blatant waste of trees, in my opinion.

3/5/2011 #361
Fantastic Nonsense

I agree; poor trees.

3/5/2011 #362
St. Elsewhere
Continuously harping on about the book doesn't make you cool. It makes you look immature. If you don't like it, shut up and stop talking about it.
3/6/2011 #363
Kingdom Hearts 3D rocks

The fanbase is overrated.

3/6/2011 #364
Yggdra

Definitely.

3/6/2011 #365
Lord Kelvin

you shouldn't base teh quality of a story based on the length of the chapters

By default, chapter length is a good indicator for a story to be read. Stuff under 1000 words per chapter is of lower quality. Chapters of 30k+ words are nutty. On FFN, there are some unwritten canons on how long a chapter should be, and it's based on what readers would like. If a writer offers me a story, but does it in a way I dislike, they're doing a poor job, ergo, the quality is poor to the target reader.

3/6/2011 #366
Kingdom Hearts 3D rocks

Case in point being the blank pages of New Moon {poor trees :'(} and the four page or so chapter of Twilight called "Angel" or something along those lines?

Seriously, who the hell would fall for a sparkling, mentally and emotionally abusive bastard who only likes you because "Oh my god your blood smells good :P"? Makes no sense to me.

3/6/2011 #367
Tr0llzaya

Okay, I think that it's established that Twilight sucks. Is it terrible? Personally, yes. Are the characters 1D? Yes. Do you wish that most of the people who read this series and no other would find something better to read? Again, yes.

But is repeating the same points over and over again really going to change anything? There is nothing wrong with getting why you abhor the series out of your system, and there certainly is nothing wrong with MSTing the series [as long as it isn't happening in a fanfic]. But I get it, and some other people get it: Edward is a Sparkly Abusive Emo 100 Year- Old Vampire With A Chainsaw And A Hook.

@ Dark Iced

There are books with chapters containing only four pages. I see the purpose of having a one (two, three, four)-page chapter as being a way to bring suspense. It's not about the quantity of the chapters- it's the quality.

3/6/2011 #368
Kingdom Hearts 3D rocks

What's the point in a four-ish page chapter in Twilight?

I think Meyer wasted trees when she made the last eight-ish pages of the second chapter of New Moon completely blank except for the name of a month, which isn't exactly helpful.

3/6/2011 #369
Venath

Continuously harping on about the book doesn't make you cool. It makes you look immature. If you don't like it, shut up and stop talking about it.

So what you're saying is that if I go to a restaurant, order up some soup, and then find a roach inside that soup when I'm eating it, it's immature of me to talk about the crappy quality of that food? No, that's not quite an accurate example. If I was to find a roach in my soup I'd at least get my money back and a heartfelt apology from the management. If I dislike a novel, I can't get a refund on the time or money spent on it, nor am I likely to get an apology from anyone. No one is trying to look cool. If you don't like listening to us complain about it, why are you still reading a topic basically dedicated to precisely that subject? Your response was made after the topic was well underway, and the fact that you claim the posters are "constantly harping" on it would imply that you did in fact dedicate time to reading as they did so. So essentially, you've just entered and read through an entire topic which clearly indicated in the title that it would be discussing problems that readers had with a certain novel, and you did so for the sole purpose of telling the posters that they're immature and should cease their discussion if they don't like it, which appears to be a rather immature (and ill thought out) action in of itself. Likewise, one would expect that you would also feel those who enjoy the book and continuously harp on about its positive qualities are equally at fault, unless of course you wished to reinforce the notion of a double standard in which someone who dislikes something is not entitled to the same rights as one who enjoys that same subject.

Hypocrisy is not a good method of gaining support for your standpoint.

3/6/2011 #370
Tr0llzaya

Venath, I think that my post tried to make it fair for anyone involved. :D I also think that Into is just sick of the same things being restated over and over again. :K

3/6/2011 #371
Kingdom Hearts 3D rocks

Let's just ask a mod to lock this thread and be done with it for about a month or two, I'm sick of talking about it.

3/6/2011 #372
Yggdra

Right. We keep going in circles rather than moving forward, and I think we've bled dry of what more fail Twilight has.

3/6/2011 #373
Kingdom Hearts 3D rocks

So the mods should lock this thread for an undetermined amount of time.

3/6/2011 #374
St. Elsewhere

So what you're saying is that if I go to a restaurant, order up some soup, and then find a roach inside that soup when I'm eating it, it's immature of me to talk about the crappy quality of that food? No, that's not quite an accurate example. If I was to find a roach in my soup I'd at least get my money back and a heartfelt apology from the management. If I dislike a novel, I can't get a refund on the time or money spent on it, nor am I likely to get an apology from anyone. No one is trying to look cool. If you don't like listening to us complain about it, why are you still reading a topic basically dedicated to precisely that subject? Your response was made after the topic was well underway, and the fact that you claim the posters are "constantly harping" on it would imply that you did in fact dedicate time to reading as they did so. So essentially, you've just entered and read through an entire topic which clearly indicated in the title that it would be discussing problems that readers had with a certain novel, and you did so for the sole purpose of telling the posters that they're immature and should cease their discussion if they don't like it, which appears to be a rather immature (and ill thought out) action in of itself. Likewise, one would expect that you would also feel those who enjoy the book and continuously harp on about its positive qualities are equally at fault, unless of course you wished to reinforce the notion of a double standard in which someone who dislikes something is not entitled to the same rights as one who enjoys that same subject.

Hypocrisy is not a good method of gaining support for your standpoint.

Have I met you before?

I'll admit, it took me a while to end up reading your block of text, considering my overwhelming urge was just to write tl;dr and ignore it. But I perservered. :D

So what you're saying is that if I go to a restaurant, order up some soup, and then find a roach inside that soup when I'm eating it, it's immature of me to talk about the crappy quality of that food?

Not the same thing.

For a start, I think that would be a bit different. What I meant was that you've already stated your opinions about it; you don't have to keep going on about it. Like Twilight, for example. Yes, opinions have been stated about it, yes, it's not the best book in the world, but if it's so unimportant, why keep going on about it? Maybe I'm going soft, but I tire of seeing post after post of the same damn thing.

If you don't like listening to us complain about it, why are you still reading a topic basically dedicated to precisely that subject?

Because I jumped into this thread hoping to find someone say something worthwhile, not continuous, useless hate over something that you could just ignore. And it was not dedicated to having the same point (oh my God, I hate it) voiced continuously.

Your response was made after the topic was well underway, and the fact that you claim the posters are "constantly harping" on it would imply that you did in fact dedicate time to reading as they did so.

I've been reading this thread since creation. If you look, you can see I've posted in it before.

So essentially, you've just entered and read through an entire topic which clearly indicated in the title that it would be discussing problems that readers had with a certain novel, and you did so for the sole purpose of telling the posters that they're immature and should cease their discussion if they don't like it, which appears to be a rather immature (and ill thought out) action in of itself.

Um. No. What I'm saying is that it gets tiring to hear the same opinion voiced over and over. Of course, no-one's going to stop for me, nor do I expect them to. It's just something that annoyed me, and I said something about it.

Likewise, one would expect that you would also feel those who enjoy the book and continuously harp on about its positive qualities are equally at fault,

Yes. It annoys me just as much to hear people continuously state their opinion about it, whichever side they're on.

Hypocrisy is not a good method of gaining support for your standpoint.

I utterly fail to see any hypocricy. But please, enlighten me. Prove me wrong.

A foot-note:

Venath, I think that my post tried to make it fair for anyone involved. :D I also think that Into is just sick of the same things being restated over and over again. :K

^ This. You seemed to have totally missed this point.

3/6/2011 . Edited 3/6/2011 #375
Kingdom Hearts 3D rocks

Can we let this topic die now please? It's gotten boring now.

3/6/2011 #376
Venath

I'll admit, it took me a while to end up reading your block of text, considering my overwhelming urge was just to write tl;dr and ignore it. But I perservered. :D

I find it sad that people actually consider something barely longer than a single paragraph to be worthy of "tl;dr." Not the same thing.

For a start, I think that would be a bit different. What I meant was that you've already stated your opinions about it; you don't have to keep going on about it. Like Twilight, for example. Yes, opinions have been stated about it, yes, it's not the best book in the world, but if it's so unimportant, why keep going on about it? Maybe I'm going soft, but I tire of seeing post after post of the same damn thing.

For a start, it's not that different at all. What I mean is that I have stated my opinions on the matter a single time; I don't keep going on about it. But for the moment I'm going to assume that when you say "you've already stated your opinions" you're not referring to me. A quick glance through the topic shows that of nearly four hundred posts, very few instances of people repeating a point after it has already been dropped occur. The few cases where the point did come up again were when someone who was previously not involved in the discussion made a comment on it, and even then it didn't seem to last for more than a few posts before being dropped again. And in many of those cases they brought up the issue from a different angle or addressed different points related to the subject.

Throw in the fact that the posters in this topic have repeatedly gone off topic (Such as discussing Harry Potter, fanfiction, writing in general, and so on) for large sections of the topic only further reinfoces the fact that the repetition isn't nearly as severe as you imply.

Because I jumped into this thread hoping to find someone say something worthwhile, not continuous, useless hate over something that you could just ignore. And it was not dedicated to having the same point (oh my God, I hate it) voiced continuously.

The problem with that reasoning being that the "continuous, useless hate" in the topic has been far from continuous in any sense of the word. It has repeatedly been broken by off topic discussions, by analyses of vampires as a whole, by comparisons between Twilight and other stories...the only thing that has been "continuous" is the common agreement that S. Meyer is a poor author. The "same point" has only even been repeated on occasion if we ignore the fact that it was often from someone new to the discussion, and in most cases had something different to contribute to the discussion.

Look at every post that brought up the subject of the sparkling. Most of them are clumped together in one small area. Most of those that were brought up after the subject was clearly dropped tend to at least elaborate on their opinions regarding the matter, and in a number of cases express different reasons for their opinion on it.

I've been reading this thread since creation. If you look, you can see I've posted in it before.

I have looked. The first appearance of the name "Fernando Rodriguez" appears in the post which I responded to. So unless you're using multiple accounts to post in this topic, no, you have not posted in this topic before. Perhaps you're confusing it with another topic that you were in? Perhaps one where what you've claimed is occurring actually occurred at some point? Because as it is, I find it hard to believe that you could have read this thread since it was created and still managed to reach the conclusions that you've reached.

I utterly fail to see any hypocricy. But please, enlighten me. Prove me wrong

Given that you've managed to come to the conclusion that this topic has had "continuous" and/or "repetitive" complaints of the exact same nature in spite of the fact that it has repeatedly changed subjects completely (Even venturing into subjects that didn't involve Twilight at all), almost never involved repetition of a previous subject without differing viewpoints and explanations from one who hadn't been involved when it was discussed beforehand, and generally seem to be of the opinion that "Commenting on something even remotely related to the subject" is the same thing as "Saying the exact same thing over and over"...Well, it doesn't surprise me that you would fail to see what you were doing.

But for the sake of enlightenment:

You profess that one should not complain about something they dislike. You claim that you only profess this in cases where it is done continuously, but given that you are doing so in a topic where it hasn't been done continuously, it would appear that you just don't like to see people complaining. To profess this disapproval of complaints, you proceed to complain, indicating that you do in fact possess the same traits that you claim others should not possess.

Again, try actually reading the topic. The only thing in this entire discussion that has even resembled a continuous complaint is Stephenie Meyer herself, and even that involved different people stating different reasons for their opinions, and was broken up repeatedly by completely different subjects and in most cases only mentioned again by people previously uninvolved with the discussion.

You seemed to have totally missed this point.

I understood the point perfectly. The problem lies within the fact that your point had absolutely no basis and comes off as nothing more than whining because you don't want people to complain about something in particular...Which is rather clear to anyone who actually bothered to pay attention to what the previous posts said instead of just labeling them as "the exact same thing" if they even had so much as a single similar concept.

3/7/2011 #377
Lord Kelvin

I'll admit, it took me a while to end up reading your block of text, considering my overwhelming urge was just to write tl;dr and ignore it. But I perservered. :D

That would have looked awesome in a much shorter response post.

Some people called for this thread to be locked. I'd have agreed if this was Harry Potter and the final movie was released. You couldn't expect anything new from the series. Twilight, on the other hand, is going to be a workhorse in merchandise, and I'm sure others would like to stipulate an opinion on some of it. The topic is remedial in some cases, and puts a lot of things on a level easy to understand for both sides. Whether the sides agree on anything is a different story.

3/7/2011 #378
SeoulGamer

I have to say, I do get a bit tired of hearing people moan about Twilight, to the point where I actually tried to see some good in it. After all, must have something if it sold so well.

I failed, mind you. But I think Into was talking about people complaining about Twilight as if it makes them look cool for not following the Twilight-loving crowd. Either way, both views have been stated to the point where hating Twilight is no more noteworthy than liking it.

3/7/2011 #379
Lord Kelvin

hating Twilight is no more noteworthy than liking it.

I resent that point and point you to the holy grail on numbers. My views are shared by the greatness that is Stephen King. The opposing camp has 13-year-old goths of an undeterminable sex with numbers vast and wide.

I dub the minority special.

3/7/2011 #380
SeoulGamer

I dub the minority special.

I take it my impression is biased by the local opinion.

...Does anyone on this forum actually not hate Twilight?

3/7/2011 #381
Lord Kelvin

...Does anyone on this forum actually not hate Twilight?

I don't hate Twilight, but I do think Apple is bad for business.

3/7/2011 #382
SeoulGamer

I don't hate Twilight, but I do think Apple is bad for business.

Maybe we could have a thread to discuss them, if anyone cares enough.

3/7/2011 #383
Lord Kelvin

Awesome idea. The ultimate battle thread: Microsoft vs Apple, an argument for the ages for geeks and consumers of all shapes and sizes.

3/7/2011 #384
SeoulGamer

Awesome idea. The ultimate battle thread: Microsoft vs Apple, an argument for the ages for geeks and consumers of all shapes and sizes.

There's certainly a sizeable audience for such a thing, but is it not more of a debate thread topic? Or would such a discussion have lasting appeal?

3/7/2011 #385
Sextuple Covalent Mo2 Bond

There's certainly a sizeable audience for such a thing, but is it not more of a debate thread topic? Or would such a discussion have lasting appeal?

There's always new technology coming from both ends of that spectrum. The topic might be one that's ever-lasting, I would assume. Like the introduction of Thunderbolt I/O co-created by Apple... 3/7/2011 #386
Lord Kelvin

Or would such a discussion have lasting appeal?

Twilight is debatable, but this thing, as you can see, just won't die! Plus, with the LU impact on Twilight, it might as well have a thread.

Apple v Microsoft has an even broader audience. The question is whether the audience is found on FFN as much as in other places.

3/7/2011 #387
SeoulGamer

Apple v Microsoft has an even broader audience. The question is whether the audience is found on FFN as much as in other places.

Would a poll be helpful in determining the extent of the audience? Apple products are used by far more people that just the mac users, so it's not just limited to a comparison with microsoft.

3/7/2011 #388
Cerulean City

And in fact, many Microsoft users also have Apple products (ie, iTunes). I don't think it's limited enough to go Apple v. Microsoft.

Personally.

3/7/2011 #389
Lord Kelvin

Would a poll be helpful in determining the extent of the audience?

No, but pitching it to other mods and doing Schrodinger's experiment sounds like a plan to me.

3/7/2011 . Edited 3/7/2011 #390
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