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The Ultimate Chimera Bloodline

This is a debate where everyone can participate. The topic, as stated above, is about who is the most powerful character in Touhou's canonical story line.

In my personal opinion, the Dragon God would be the strongest one, since it's stated he can obliterate Gensokyo on an instant.

But because he is not that much of a character himself, I would have to go with Yuyuko since she can kill people instantly (although, strong willed people can resist this by "denying" the invitation to death).

And if PC-98 characters would be taken into account too, then my personal bet would be on Yumemi Okazaki's last resource. She had a bomb powerful enough to destroy the entire world. And an amazing theme to top it off! (Although this doesn't actually makes her more powerful, but it indeed makes her more badass.) [I forgot to mention that she is a completely normal human AND a final boss too.]

UPDATE: Yeah, Touhou characters are way too broken. Guess ZUN never thought of giving appropriate ability descriptions. But as in-videogame characters, who really cared about proper characterization?

8/13/2012 . Edited 8/13/2012 #1
Fonzi the Survivalist

well, this might be a fun thread

Yuyuko as the most powerful one, you say? I'm sorry, but not even by a long shot. Her powers are useless against immortal characters like Kaguya and Mokou and those already dead, like Minamitsu, Yoshika, Mima, Tojiko and many more. Not to mention every single fairy. But here starts the dilemma. Who would I vote as the most powerful character in canon? We have a multitude of options here.

Reimu's Fantasy Natrue makes our beloved miko insanely overpowered if we follow its description to the letter.

Yukari - an excerpt in PMiSS clamis the following: " In any case, there is neither any sort of defense against nor weak point in the ability to manipulate boundaries."

Now she and Reimu are at a stalemate, aren't they?

The Lunarians - those who read SSiB know well... Even Yukari says that nobody from Earth could win against them with power.

Eiki Shiki Yamaxanadu - Again paraphrasing Yukari, who said that not even if she allied herself with Reimu and Yuyuko, they'd be no match for Eiki (who was defeated in PoFV by the heroine) How we love canon contradictions...

The Dragon God - indeed stated as possibly the most powerful entity, or so I used to think. Until I read chapter 15 of Curiosities of Lotus Asia where Rinnosuke claims that the powers of the gods depend on their name. If a god is given a name, their powers will become defined and restricted from omnipotence. Since the Dragon has no name, he is about as powerful as a monotheistic god. But what if people decided to give him a name and that would turn him into a minor deity? And then what if they lost faith in him? As Kanako states in SoPM, if a god loses all faith, it would be the same as if he/she died. And while I'm at it, I also have to mention that youkai originated out of humans' fear and their power inversely faded as they stopped believing in them. It would seem to me that the ones who hold the ultimate power over everything are the humans. Both in the outside world and Gensokyo.

Then we have other characters with hax powers. Such as Remilia who can control fate. Flandre, who can destroy everything and anything. Yoshika, who can EAT anything and everything (including Yuyuko... uhh...interpret that in any way you wish) Shou's pagoda can burn everything into ash...

Shinki - the goddess of Makai. But I don't really know that much about her.

Hina - she's...well dangerous

Yuuka - not THE most powerful, but close enough

The oni - they are very, very powerful, but also have many strange weaknesses.

Satori - She knows what you're about to do before you do it...you damn lolicons!

Sakuya - "Za Warudo! Toki wo tomare!" Hundreds of knives appear around you. "Soshite toki ga ugokidasu." You're dead. Seriously, though, time manipulation is one of the most awesome powers.

Mokou - If there were no Spell Card rules, how could you beat her? Sure she does feel pain and she could give up and all, but there is no way to get rid of her permanently. She doesn't even have to fight you. She'll just outlive you. (the same goes for Kaguya, but I already mentioned the Lunarians so yeah... oh and all immortal characters including the dead ones)

Unzan - with an incorporeal body, there's little anyone can do against him.

Cirno - *badum tss!* yeah, I know I'm not funny

Vengeful Spirits - nasty things... It's said they can posses humans and youkai and even kill any youkai if they do, but there is no evidence so it's up to our imagination again

So how should I conclude all this rambling that's longer than some one-shot fics that I've seen here? Probably by saying that there is no "pyramid" of power, but rather a "circle". Some creatures have advantage over another while suffering a weakness from something else. Kind of like "rock-paper-scissors" system.

8/13/2012 . Edited 8/13/2012 #2
Winged Ikaros

Everybody in Gensokyo has a power that, used well, could be a game-breaker. For example, our favourite idiot fairy, Cirno, and her power of manipulation of cold. What is exactly cold? In physic terms, it's just the feeling of "loss of heat", and heat is one of the main forms of energy of the Universe. To be more precise, heat is only a measure of movement of atomic particles. Now what would happen if Cirno's bulb lights up and decides to absorb your heat (read: strip your cells of any movement)? Yep, you're pretty much dead. Hell, if we take it up to eleven, Cirno could provoke the Entropic Death of the Universe!

My point is that almost every being in Gensokyo could use their powers in a lethal way. Some have it easier, like Yukari and her vague power of Manipulation of Boundaries, and some have to think of a unusual and imaginative way (Cirno as explained above, Parsee, Rinnosuke, Hina, etc.). It would all come down to who makes the first move, in my opinion. Of course, then we have the Spell Cards Rules, which put everybody on the same grounds... but that's another story.

8/13/2012 . Edited 8/13/2012 #3
Captain Vulcan
Okay... the Spell Card phenomena is a real doozey, isn't it? Anyways, that's the beauty of Touhou (besides the cast, that is) - with it's vagueness and all.
8/13/2012 #4
Mephiles666

What are we measuring in power?

Control? Raw Strength? Stamina?

8/13/2012 #5
Xy-Trig

. This. I think we should rank the people on a scale first, with several divisions, then choose the strongest overall. I will now propose rubrics: Battle Applicability (How powerful the ability would be in a straight fight against an opponent. Probably the easiest category.)

Control over Power: How much control the character actually has their ability, and how well they can use it if forced to. (E.g.: Remilia's Manipulation of Fate would fail this category extremely badly, mostly because we have no idea how it works and she's never been seen to use it. On the other hand, Udonge's Lunatic Red Eyes would probably ace this.)

Stamina: How many times can the power be used. Pretty self-evident that LRE and Perfect Freeze would be top of this.

Impact of Power: How much smack a power can bring, and up to what level it can hit. Although Perfect Freeze is insanely powerful, you then have to deal with Mokou. Who shoots unfreezeable fire. Naturally, Manipulation of Fate is a winner in this, even if we know nothing about it. Gaps also win this no doubt.

And of course the non-power related items:

Speed: Self-explanatory.

Endurance: Again, self-explanatory.

Character intelligence: Depending on how well or not the character knows their power, the attacks they use can be modified in order to hit their opponent differently. Naturally, most of the more levelheaded are top of the class here.

Idiotic suggestions:

Flair: How awesome it looks as a Spell Card. This can be safely ignored, I just like to have an attribute like this for everything.

8/14/2012 #6
Achariyth1

Flair works. Danmaku is about beauty, after all.

8/14/2012 #7
Fonzi the Survivalist

All these categories are nice and all, but what's the point?

Battle applicancy? (How powerful the ability would be in a straight fight against an opponent) What kind of opponent? What is a "straight fight"?

How can we know if this or that character has bigger control over power than another one?

How can we measure their stamina?

How can we judge their impact of power?

Also, are we talking purely in terms of Spell Card System, because without the restrictions the balance of power drastically changes.

Endurance - self explanatory? I don't think so.

The Speed and Intelligence are probably the only clear categories, but even here we could argue whether Mystia is dumber than Cirno or not. Or whether Aya is faster than Youmu for instance.

8/14/2012 #8
Mephiles666

How can we measure their (non-power related) stamina (which I am assuming would be Endurance)?

We can't (at least not that I'm aware of). All we know is that youkai having "stronger bodies" or "More robust bodies" (depending on translation) could indicate that they have more than humans. It might not.

Yukari claims that Lunarians have "unyielding stamina." This could be applied to SSiB where Yorihime maintains peak efficiency against all of four of her enemies.

That said, Lunarians would win in the Endurance and/or Stamina categories. But we would not be able to know who got second place.

EDIT: Then there are the ghosts who never get tired (so I've been told), except at the Sanzu River.

-

As for intelligence, Mystia could run a successful store (Lamprey), Cirno could not (Water Flavored Shaved Ice).

8/14/2012 . Edited 8/14/2012 #9
Xy-Trig

A "straight fight", would be in midair (assuming everyone can fly), no distractions and no other attackers, and sight of each other. Battles should last ten minutes max, mostly because fights between people this powerful should be pretty short. Both would be *and this is where we leave canon* actually attempting, seriously, to win and defeat their opponent.

Control over power will probably be a stated thing, linked to intelligence/common sense, I guess. Probably more like how much they know and can control things that they do.

Stamina... well... yeah I'm stuck there. Don't know HOW that would work, at all.

Impact of power is how much you could possibly throw at someone without prior preparation, which is -just- raw impact.

Endurance, well, I forgot I was in Gensokyo. Nothing is self-explanatory. And I suppose this is the same story as Stamina.

On the SCS, I'm waiting on the thread starter for that.

Speed and Int are the clearest, but I guess I should change that to Speed and Common Sense, to make it clearer. As for speed, well, there are no official rankings, so...

I fear that these categories have only given people more things to make stuff up about. Well, whatever.

8/15/2012 . Edited 8/15/2012 #10
Winged Ikaros

We might as well borrow the Touhoumon stats tables if we're arguing about the best method of power classification.

8/15/2012 #11
Achariyth1
In that case, I nominate Advent Cirno and the One Wing Butterfly... Seriously, this is Touhou, where danmaku is beauty (and showing off in front of the guys). And I suspect there are limits to the girls we don't know, else Yukari would be the Creator in more than just fandom...
8/15/2012 #12
The Ultimate Chimera Bloodline

Ehh, I'm here. But I seriously don't know what SCS is, so if someone can explain me, I would be more than grateful.

8/15/2012 #13
Mephiles666

I think the SC means Spell Cards. Dunno what the second S stands for.

8/15/2012 #14
Fonzi the Survivalist

System?

8/15/2012 #15
Winged Ikaros

Spell Card System, I believe. I still don't know what exactly does he/she mean by that.

8/15/2012 #16
The Ultimate Chimera Bloodline

Maybe it's about the limitations the Spell Card System applies on combats, but I don't know what to make out of that either.

8/15/2012 #17
Xy-Trig

Yes I meant spell card system. I'm stuck on that too; I mean it lets people make non-lethal anything out of their attacks so...

yeah.

I just don't know anymore.

8/16/2012 #18
NagaoTora

I found this post when I was googling around to see people's opinion of strongest Touhou character, and decided to give my opinions, too.

Touhou just has so many OP characters, so obviously there is no right answer. I guess leaving things to fan's imaginations is one of Touhou's charms.

Dragon God

He is implied to be the strongest being in Gensokyo, according to official printworks. And I am pretty sure that he will not have to worry about losing faith since he is not just worshipped by humans, but youkai as well. For humans, it may be easy to forget gods over generations due to their short lifespan, but youkais have much longer lifespan, so I can't imagine Dragon God being forgotten by youkais in Gensokyo. But since I agree that he's not much of a character himself, it leaves windows open for consideration of other strongest characters in Gensokyo.

Toyohime and Yorihime

They pretty much kick everyone's ass in Silent Sinner in Blue, and even Yukari kneels down in front of Toyohime, but that does not mean Yukari is weaker than Toyohime or Yorihime in one on one fights. She may have surrendered to save Gensokyo from the moon, since there is no way people in Gensokyo can beat Lunarians in an all out war because of the moon's advanced technology. Also, in the end of the manga, Yukari does get a victory from them even without fighting.

Yukari

Her ability to manipulate boundaries mean that she can alter someone's existence. Not only that, she can go to anywhere she wishes, even including stories and pictures. So how she kicks someone's ass is pretty much up to her. She can pull out a train in Scarlet Weather Rhapsody, so I am pretty sure she can pull out nuclear missiles too if she wants to.

Kanako

Her description of power is ambiguous, but she is powerful enough to make a whole new sixth stage boss in Subterranean Animism, so who knows what else she is capable of.

Shikieiki

Yukari does say that even if she allied herself with Reimu and Yuyuko, they'd be no match for Shikieiki, but does she really mean that in terms of combat abilities? Yukari probably just doesn't want anything to do with her since who knows how long Shikieiki will want to lecture her. Still, it is a fact that Shiki can replicate people, as she does so against Aya in Shoot the Bullet.

Suika and Yuugi

Both Suika and Yuugi can cause a lot of damage, and even though some may think the oni have many weaknesses, "Knowledge about oni and methods of their extermination have lost in modern times." according to Perfect Memento in Strict Sense.

Eirin

She was one of the individuals that helped Lord Tsukuyomi build the Lunar Capital, so she was probably one of the most prominent individuals in the Lunar Capital. Her pupils include some of the strongest individuals in Touhou series, including Toyohime, Yorihime, and Kaguya. She is also a natural genius, who is capable of doing pretty much anything.

Mokou and Kaguya

Both are very strong and cannot be killed, but it is stated in Imperishable Night that Eirin is much stronger than them.

Reimu

Even though she has solved many incidents, she is still a human girl.

Yuuka

The quote that people use to support the notion that Yuuka is the strongest is the dialogue between her and Shikieiki during her last stage in Phantasmagoria of Flower View, where Yuuka says to Shiki: "Lets make it as clear as black and white who of us is the strongest in Gensokyo!"

Flandre and Remilia

They have too many weaknesses since they are vampires, not to mention that their experience and knowledge is that of a little children's, compared to many individuals in Touhou.

Satori

She canknow what her opponent will do beforehand, but her combat abilities is not expected to be excellent, according to Symposium of Post-Mysticism. And I am sure mind reading abilities will not save her when her opponent is incredibly stronger or faster than her.

Sakuya

Her power makes it seem like she would have the easiest time killing anything, but her ability to stop the time all depends on her reaction, and she would be very vulnerable to certain things like decoys and Suika's mist form.

6/27/2013 #19
Mephiles666

Reimu has the ability to ignore reality.

6/27/2013 #20
Fonzi the Survivalist

Like completely.

6/28/2013 #21
Captain Vulcan

Like Adam Warlock!

6/28/2013 #22
Fonzi the Survivalist

I don't even know who that is. However, Reimu can't float above non-reality, as she is not immune to nerfing in fanworks. Nobody is.

6/28/2013 #23
Captain Vulcan

I-- uh... I got nothin'...

6/28/2013 #24
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