Catwoman Connundrum
Primarily for people who want to help me work on my story "In the Lions Den"- However, any fan of Catwoman and the Justice League is welcome to come join the party!
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Tinea

This is where you need to be if you are helping me re-write my story. I figure it'll be easier for just batting ideas back and forth. If anyone had an idea while they were reading the story, like: Hey, she should have done this differently. or, This part really wasn't in character. or, This part was good, but it was way too short. - I want to know about those.

If there was a part that you really didn't like- tell me.

If there was a part that you really did like, and don't want me to change- tell me that too.

If you just had a random idea that wasn't anywhere in my story, but you think it could work, tell me and I'll talk it over with you.

All in all, I just want your honest opinion.

10/29/2009 #1
Proponent of EVO

Alright, I'm here - we can start when everyone else shows up! :)

11/3/2009 #2
Tinea

Well, I'm here. There was one dude I asked to be a beta like a week ago, but he hasn't even replied back to me. So, I don't know if he's showing up. Gab4eva24 is the other beta, and she's deffinately helping. In the mean time, what are your ideas on the story?

11/3/2009 #3
Proponent of EVO

Well, I really enjoyed it. Your characterization of the players in the story were pretty spot-on, with the exception (in brief parts) of Superman and Wonder Woman.

I would suggest the addition of a "B" storyline. Simply having one story arc is fine for shorter pieces of fiction, but you might want to have another which would later tie in to the main one.

Also, if you'd like, I can proof your writing - you are very good, but there were a few typos and instances of confusing language in each chapter which would be well done away with.

11/3/2009 #4
Tinea

I agree with you about the second story line. One of the things I noticed while re-reading it was that it got really boring. There just isn't too much going on.

I was thinking maybe one of the heros trying to get Selina thrown out of the League.

How about you?

11/4/2009 #5
Proponent of EVO

Hmm...I'm not sure about that - you spend the first few chapters going over the fact that much of the Justice League doesn't like her much. Having someone actively conspire to have her kicked out seems a bit too much.

Maybe feature more of the Bat-clan. You seem to write their family dynamic pretty well, I think it would go well for you.

11/4/2009 #6
Tinea

Ok, so we throw out the conspiricy theory.

But I need an active idea. Batclan stuff is good for charcter building and story dynamic, but it's not exactly a story line. There has to be something going wrong- a conflict. Problem is, I'm terrible at creating conflict. I always have things work out nice a smooth, so there's not really anything interesting happening.

How do we create conflict?

11/4/2009 #7
Quorkin

Just wondering, are you considering a Wonder Woman conflict? I know you said you didn't want to and I sound like a tape recorder trying to say it over and over, but I think that'd work best. Bats isn't too into her any way. It's a flirt thing and Bruce and Selina's dance over Gotham's rooftops can't be beat.

That's another thing missing. The Bat and Cat on Gotham's rooftops. Their dynamic duo(it'd definitely a different duo from Robin ;) in Gotham is pretty classic. It's not a chase on the rooftops anymore. I know Bats was avoiding her but aside from us hearing it from Selina and them never meeting we never get any real juice to that. I think you should have a scene some where in Gotham with her and Bats teaming up. It'd be for old time's sake. Them teaming up would again show off that dynamic between them. A fight scene with them beating up some gang or other would be good. I've always imagined that when teamed together they would kick major a**. They are both creatures of the night and they're so in rhythmn with each other that they can trust each other in battle.

I got a little off topic with the main conflict we're talking here. Bat Family interactions was great. And that's just a scene I've always pictured in a perfect BatCat story I plan to write in the future with my story of Bat's love square. Who says anyone else can't use it for their own? It'd be interesting to see how you portray it. So the main conflict. I'm still going with the Diana thing. Diana isn't that proud and I think with matters of the heart she might even go to Shayera for help. It'd give Shayera more screentime, a character who I think had grown so much after the Thanagarian invasion and returning.

To make this work I think you need more interactions with characters. Now that I really truly think about it Catwoman and Batman don't really react with others. It's just him talking to Superman and then all of a sudden Catwoman is paired with Wonder Woman. How does Batman react to that? And don't make him all Oh-my-god-Wondy-is-into-me-and-I'm-defintely-not-into-her-what-was-she-thinking?! I hate those because they seem as if they pointedly stating their opinion when in a story where relationships are being talked about you can't do that! You have to treat each relationship as they are and everyone can plain see there is a little something-something going on between Bats and Wondy at least in the DCAU. Sorry for the rant but I hate what some people have done with Selina in their stories. They make her complete b*tch. It's no good. But interactions are.

I know you're not into detail and you're one of the people who like to write about the exact highlights and not the extras where maybe something small is happening, but I think some character interactions are due. Maybe you can have another comical ending part with Dove seeing the happy BatCat couple. It's more stuff like that need to be there. I'll try to post in more detail about the Wondy conflict but I'll just wait until you respond and what you've got to say.

11/5/2009 #8
Tinea

Wow- lot to respond to.

First off, I don't know how I'd do with a Wonder Woman conflict. Diana is a hard character to write, because there are so many things she could go either way with. I don't like the idea of her and Selina fighting, because so many stories have that, an it usually ends up making Diana and Selina both look like b***s.

I do like the idea of some BatCat rooftop interaction, but I think it should be before she joins the League- like leading up to her joining. Like, the two of them teaming up, and him suggesting that she should make the hero thing official and join the JL, and her thinking 'hmm, yeah, I just might do that'. Not in those words, mind you, but you get the idea. I love their chemestry together, and I think I could make that work. The only thing I might have trouble with would be the actual fight scene- I've never written an actual battle before and I don't know how I would do.

I know I need more character ineraction. As you said, though; I tend to write only the highlights, because those are the little flashes I get in my head when I think up a story. I'm horrible at transitions- just connecting one thing to another to make it all flow better. It doesn't come naturally to me so I tend not to do it- which is bad. But thats why I have you guys! To catch my mistakes and tell me when I need to do something different and make the story way better.

I realize I don't do very good on the BMWW front. I just can't see the two of them together. This would so not be a problem if they had stuck to canon and paired her with Steve Trevor like they're suppose to. Unfortunately, they made Steve Trevor really old in this series. I was thinking of giving her a oppising love interest- to calm the tension a little. Do y'all remember King Faraday? From the episode 'To Another Shore'? I was thinking maybe him. I've always kinda liked the idea of them having a little "something-something,"- as you put it. I know that in JL there is some attraction between her and Batman, and I'm not going to completely dissregard cannon just because of my opinion. One thing I do think, though, is that if I can work it around to Diana and Selina becoming friends, then I don't have to worry to much about the BMWW thing. Diana is too proud and self-respecting to go after another woman's guy- what's more, if Selina earns her trust, then Diana would consider her a sister- Diana has been raised her whole life to put her sisters first- any guy would automatically come after a sister.

What do y'all think about that? Is it a good way to go, or not?

11/6/2009 #9
Quorkin

True everyone makes them b*tches and it sucks because then everyone assumes Catwoman is just that kind of person and mostly see Diana in a good light. Thankfully we've got people like you who understand the character.

BatCat rooftop interaction is a go then I guess but first we have to get the character interactions so we can get up to that.

Some have set up Diana with King Faraday once and I think that'd work. I don't want to give up too much on that Steve Trevor pairing because I something going on in my own mind for my stories it'd be a really big spoiler too. I too have always thought in some way that Diana would make great friends. The shopping thing you had in this was leading to that, but that should probably be stretched to show off their friendship even more. A friendship with Hawkgirl and those three would be really great in my opinion.

I guess the plan of action as you said you needed help with character interaction is me going back and rereading the first chapter. Then I'll truly give feedback on how to incorporate some of these ideas in the story at the first chapter.

-Gab4eva24

P.S. If you want to see how Batman and Catwoman fight together just watch the first part of Catwoman's introduction episode in The Batman. I'm not too much a fan of that show but some of the action was better than TAS. I haven't watched it in some time but I think it showed their fighting better together as a team.

11/7/2009 #10
Proponent of EVO

Here's, perhaps, a third option. Why pair Diana up at all? I'm rather a fan of Wonder Woman, and to my mind, one of the best Wonder Woman runs of all time was when Greg Rucka was writing. She had no man and needed no man, because she was Diana and defined herself.

11/7/2009 #11
Quorkin

I read somewhere when they did the nuclear scene where Bats saved her and she kissed him fans were all over the place thinking they'd make a cute couple. The producers Timm and Dini decided to go with it. They never intended for that to happen.

Yes Diana can be independent but because she's like the perfect goddess. She's beautiful and smart. Romance is there. She has to be with someone. Her status as part of the DC Trinity probably puts that up for grabs too.

Some guy like Lois would probably do her good. A guy who's brave but not her equal in physical things. Bats is brave and they decided that he fit I guess. I still don't think it works.

Your idea for not pairing up Diana is something to figure, but not pairing her means she doesn't end up with anyone. She ends up alone in a sense. And for such a symbol of hope opposite in gender to Superman I don't think that would do her any good. She's light and everything these days ends up with angst or darkness like the fact that the comics say Superman has to live on with Lois gone. That's more of Bat's ending so they paired him up with Diana. Don't like the idea of SupesWondy at all, but that's what they did. It was alternate universe from the really thing I think. Sorry my comic knowledge is limited.

11/7/2009 #12
Tinea

Maybe a mix? Not pair her, exactly, but have a guy there for future posibiliy. Maybe have him around, and her say somthing like, 'he's an honorable man' or somthing. Just hinting that theres a possibility that it could go somewhere, but still have her be her awome self. That what most people like about her- her independence and self-relience, so I definately don't want to take that away from her.

But Diana isn't the main character, and we still need a conflict.

Maybe, some villan commits a crime that fits Catwomans MO, so she gets accused? Or, she's on a mission and either someone gets hurt because she completes the mission?- or the opposite- the mission doesn't get completed (and now lots of people are in danger) because she helped one of her team members instead?

What are some conflict ideas that y'all have?

And, are there parts of the existing story that we should get rid of?

11/7/2009 #13
Quorkin

Conflict first and then get rid of that stuff later.

I think the conflict is already there with Batman trying to reveal his secret identity to her. We just need some events that help with.

When I was reading the first two chapters I thought Catwoman could reveal in a flashback fashion to Green Arrow and Flash the events leading up to her joining the League. She could admit to having regrets and then start that conversation continuing in the closet. This could cue all the BatCat encounters on the rooftops and lead them to think she should make it official with the hero thing.

That' ll start the story going. With Bruce you could add extra scenes like when he comes home from patrol with her to Alfred and the BatCave then discusses his feelings about her heroism and some inner monologue because Bruce doesn't ever reveal too much about his feelings. That could be somewhere in why Bruce is mad or why he's avoiding her and things.

Sorry if those things don't seem adding to the conflict but it'd help get things moving IMO. It's a start.

A necessary event to get the conflict truly there could be.... sorry I can't think of any right now for your particular story. The ones you pointed out have been done before or in my opinion too cliche. I'll try to figure something out soon or maybe someone else will get an idea.

11/7/2009 #14
Tinea

Ah, sorry it took so long to reply- school is evil and I just now got around to it.

I was a little confused about what you said.

Is she already in the closet- then theres a flashback- then back to the closet? Or is she a full member of the league- and both the closet and the rooftop are flashbacks? Or...?

I was also wondering if maybe I should try for a first person perspective? I know that first person is harder to write action, but it add a lot of emotional depth. Simply knowing whats going on in everyone's head might hold some conflict potential.

It would definately help with the Bruce parts, because as you said, he does a lot of inner monologuing.

I would still prefer some form of external conflict, but we all seem to be having a hard time with that. It might be because we don't have a very firm idea of the way the story's going to go. I say we just skip that for now and then work it in later ( Because I'm actually pretty good at that).

So: Who was out of character?

What do we get rid of?

Does anyone have an idea that was not in the story that they would like to mention?

Ect...

*Try not to think in terms of what I've already written, because it doesn't neccesarily have to follow that. We can think out of the box.

PS. Happy Vets. Day- God Bless-

11/11/2009 #15
Proponent of EVO

I was also wondering if maybe I should try for a first person perspective? I know that first person is harder to write action, but it add a lot of emotional depth. Simply knowing whats going on in everyone's head might hold some conflict potential.

I think this is an idea with merit - writing, for example, a chapter each with characters in the first person would humanize these people. A Bruce Wayne/Batman 1st person POV chapter would be interesting.

Who was out of character?

I think everyone, with the exception of Wonder Woman, and at times Superman, was written in character. The problem with Superman, though, is that he is, at times, a tabula rasa for the writer to implant his/her own persona. Not to say that he has no personality, but it can be hard to work beyond the whole "Truth, Justice, ect." Still, though, you wrote him well.

You wrote Wonder Woman pretty well, too. But the thing about Wonder Woman is that she is, in part, an Avatar of Truth. She doesn't distrust, excect where necessary. She'd be able to suss out the truth of Catwoman within about a minute of meeting her.

What do we get rid of?

I don't think you get rid of anything - I think you have to add, though. B and C story arcs seem to be needed here.

11/11/2009 #16
Quorkin

They're in the closet and contine they're conversation leading Green Arrow and Flash to ask about how she got here into the Justice League.

I actually like first person the best when writing stories outside of Fanfiction. You can still write action scenes because they describe what they're doing with their body. I've never really thought of doing that in Fanfiction. I think Bats and Selina would be the perfect candidate. Those two are the focus so maybe they should be the two to get the spotlight.

Like Proponent of EVO said Wondy is very fair and does trust until someone gives her a chance to not trust. I think her feelings would be more of reluctant jealousy that she doesn't want to admit. She'll eventually get over it but it's a slight feeling to start with.

Superman is kind of hard to write but I feel you should stick with more of the Boyscout charm. The way you wrote him during his conversation with Bats made him seem a bit slow on the take. I know he was trying to make conversation but in some way I think his thoughts should be incorporated where we know he's admitting defeat. Supes understands Bruce but he's just trying. That part was fun but acknowledging Clark's understanding of that is essential IMO to keep him on the border of Boyscout charm rather than annoyance to Batman. Don't get me wrong he's still teasing Bruce in a way but in the SupesBats love-hate relationship there's not pure annoyance even when their completely mad at each other.

I was thinking the story more centered in Gotham then ever not including the flashback of how she got there. I know Bats was avoiding her but he should still be seeing her around in Gotham. He'll keep it strictly professional while Selina tries her naughty nice flirty attitude. I dislike stories where Bat just avoids people now that I think about it. You're story's fun atmosphere distracted me from that. I would think he'd rather suck it up and treat them "normal" or do the usual I-don't-care-so-I'm-acting-way-to-distant-to-look-like-I'm-acting-normal-even-though-I'm-trying-to-act-"normal" thing. Also more talks with Bruce would do the story good. That dynamic of Bruce is that only socialite friend who treats me normal, having no romantic feelings for the playboy of course, while Bats is the stoic complete opposite of him and the mystery guy I love. It's that dynamic that truly raises my love for BatCat than BatWondy. Flaunt what you've got.

I think that's all I've got right now, any ways I have homework. Catch ya later!

11/11/2009 #17
Tinea

Ok, so 1'st person is a go.

Fixing Clark's personality will be tough, because he is hard to write. I know he's not slow- I didn't mean to make him seem like that at all-. You know how his mind works: 1. Earth- 2. Lois/Ma/Pa/Smallville- 3. Daily Planet/Metropolis- 4. Lois- 5. Krypto/zoo animals/Fortress- 6. Root beer- ect... You get the picture; he's just a real sweetheart. Then there's the whole 'World's Finest' angle. They're aren't exactly buddy-buddy(because that would require Bruce to act friendly), but they are like brothers. I've always seen Clark as the farmboy-turned-writter who just happens to have tons of powers. But that may just be me, though, so any advice on how I should be writting him?

I do like the idea of a couple of BatCat run-ins. From what little I know of the comics, one of Selina's biggest fears is that if she stops stealing, Batman won't pay any more attention to her. We could deffenitley go with that. Bats starts being standoffish(because he's afraid/paranoid/suspicious) and Selina feels that her fears are confirmed and that he doesn't care about her now that she's been "fixed". Bruce will start picking up Batman's slack, and be there for her, but she doesn't know their the same guy. That'll cause all sorts of problems.

I can easily fix the trust issue and make Diana seem more herself. Jealousy, huh? It'll be hard to do without seeming like I'm bashing her, but I might be able to pull it off if it's subtle.

Homework is evil, isn't it? Well, it's like midnight my time, so I'm turning in. Later, Y'all.

11/11/2009 #18
Quorkin

I like Smallville's Clark Kent at times because I think he has the charming boy scout part down pat except he can be too broody at times. Save the brooding for Bruce more. One episode I watched for Season 8 was called Hex, it had Clark forgetting he had powers and acting just as I thought he as a mild-mannered reporter would. That's something to check out and possibly help.

You're Clark feels like puppy dog Clark, I want gentle giant St. Bernard puppy dog Clark. He's got some presence in him.

I do believe that Supes and Bats are brother-like. Underneath it I think they do trust and like each other, but due to the twisted up superhero world they live in they have to keep their guard up.

The idea of stealing and the midnight escapades being all the attraction is gold. Selina can be really hurt on the inside at times and Bats is always a little paranoid because of that one night. Well there you go, main conflict right under our noses hiding in your mind. By Bruce picking up the slack do you mean a possible Romance? I'm not sure if I'd like that or not but whenever I think of a triangle between Selina/Bruce/Bats it's too reminiscent of the greatest superhero love triangle of all: Supes/Lois/Clark. I'm hoping you mean just friendship and longing for the Bat to be like Bruce.

I'd think Diana would see how much Selina has fallen for Bruce and how he hides from her in fear of rejection or a scheme that she'd back off. Since they become friends she wouldn't try to get the guy behind her back. Jealousy can actually come from both ends. Diana is slightly jealous for Bruce in the beginning and Selina isn't all into the high and mighty princess get-up. My opinion is of Diana and Selina having some moment where they truly re-evaluate each other and see the good in each other. That'd lead to Diana backing off. In a way undertones of a World's Finest relationship might form between Wondy and Catwoman. Of course I'd think they wouldn't be so reluctant of their like for each other and have some bonding moments and GNOs with Shayera.

Lastly Diana knows Bruces identity so that'd be a point to pick up. I think some sort of confrontation between Wondy and Bats about his treatment of Selina would be good to put somewhere in the middle of all this chaos.

11/12/2009 #19
Tinea

Ok, so now I know what to do with Clark. I think in his mind, he is puppy dog Clark- It's just everyone else who sees him as a big 'ole St. Bernard. Lol.

About the Bruce/Selina/Batman, I was talking more along the lines of her wishing she could just sort of mix them together. Bruce is her dependable (but ironically, not the one she loves) friend. Batman is the sexy, exciting, mystery guy, but he's always pushing her away. The thing that I think makes it most different from Supes/Lois/Clark, is that Lois loves Superman, who's not the true persona, and just thinks of Clark as her buddy. Selina loves Batman, who is the true persona, and thinks of Bruce as the 'I-like-you, but-I-don't-like-like-you' friend. She can't like Bruce completely, because she realizes that he's not exactly real and honest. She wishes Batman had more of Bruce's "real" qualities.

I like the idea for a girl's version of Worlds Finest. It's a really good game plan to follow, and it add's to the characters a lot. Diana seems perfectly herself in that, too. She would confront Bruce about not being truthful. He'd probably be defensive and brood, then after a while admit to himself that she's right and have that 'I'm sorry I lied to you' moment with Selina.

I'll try to find that episode, but my cable only plays Smallville at like five in the morning.

So, that thats taken care of. Now what are we gonna work on? It'll take me a while to evaluate what we've got, (as I'm kind of allergic to everything right now, so my head is fuzzy and not processing things very quickly). What do y'all think we should discuss next?

11/13/2009 #20
Quorkin

Good with the whole Bruce/Selina/Batman thing. I've always wanted it to be that way but it seems like no show even Batman TAS never highlighted that too much. It was there a little, but not that much. I know romance isn't the top dog with a Batman story seeing as Batman's true love is practically Gotham and his mission, but it's part of character interactions. If Timm could do all that romance with Diana then Selina should have gotten loads more.

I'm not exactly sure what to discuss either. Do you think you'd like to begin writing? I'll just wait for you to process it all because I think once you(the author) has it things will fall into place better.

Good luck unfuzzying!

11/13/2009 #21
Quorkin

Oh and P.S. I think that works great for Clark. It's him thinking of himself as a no greater being that usually makes him so lovable.

11/13/2009 #22
Kairan1979

I think Superman is deluding himself, thinking that he is just a human with powers, not a Last Son of Krypton. It stops him from reaching full power. I saw him uninhibited in JLU only once - when he fought Darkseid in "Destroyer".

1/18/2010 #23
Tinea

Wow. First of all- I completely forgot to post back like two months ago. I didn't even realize I hadn't until I saw the new reply up here. So I'm really sorry about that, you guys.

Next order of business- Kairan1979- Yes, I notice that I tend to power Clark down, and in the future, I need to make sure I don't. That being said, are you joining our forum?

Like I said before, I'm so sorry for forgetting, but can we start back up now?

1/20/2010 #24
Quorkin

Sorry, no time no write.

So are we starting again? I don't really know what else to do. The best thing we can do is have you start writing and re-writing unless you have any other story components you want to discuss.

6/22/2010 #25
Tinea

I'd really like to decide on a B or C storyline to add some depth.

So far, what I have is:

Start. Catwoman takes down a thug in Gotham- Bats shows up to offer assitance, but finds she's already taken care of it. He suggests she should join the League. Next. Catwoman & co. in the closet, Cats does the training excercise, character interaction between Selina-League members(Shay, Clark, Oliver, Wally, maybe Diana/others) and Bruce-friends/family members(Clark, Alfred, Tim, D***, maybe others) Then. They go on their Mission, Cats gets shot. Diana & Selina talk while Cats is in the med lab or sick bay or whatever they called it. They talk about their affection for Batman, and why Selina stoped being a theif (Batman). Selina possibly gets visited in hospital by others. Other characters notice Batman's avoidence of CW, and perhaps talk to him about it- (not Diana yet) And. Selina eventually recovers and she, Diana, and Shayera have their GNO (actually written out this time). Selina admits her feelings of frustration when becoming a hero had the effect she feared (ie. Batman avoids her now that she no longer needs 'fixing') and how she feels she can't fully trust her one civilian friend, Bruce, because he hides things from her. Diana realizes that Selina doesn't know Batman's secret identity. She confronts Batman about how his dishonesty to Selina is causing her pain. Later. Selina has dinner w/ Bruce, saying how Batman could take lessons from Bruce about treating his friends better. This and Diana's earlier words cause him to feel guilty. Bruce is then called out on Batman business, lying to Selina again about it, and feels continually worse as the story progresses. Selina admits to Alfred that she knows Bruce was lying, and leaves. When Bruce gets back, Alfred talks to him and makes him consider his past and future actions. Finally. Catwoman catches up with Batman on the Watchtower, and confronts him about avoiding her. He reveals his identity to her, but feeling betrayed and manipulated, she claws him in the face and storms away. ( Two possible ways to go after that: 1-She talks to Superman like in the original story, and finally forgives Batman after thinking about what Clark says- how it's frightening to face the possibility of someone you love not loving you. OR 2- She teleports off the Watchtower, angry and emotional, and steals something. Batman is devestated when he finds out, but goes to her appartment to aprehend her, only she isn't there. Instead he finds her sitting on the roof of the museum(or wherever she stole the thing from) not able to go through with the theft because of the pain it would have caused Bruce. He is touched by her love for him, and admits his love for her in return) There would be tying up loose ends, general feel-good stuff after this, funny quips, what have you, but it would basically end after that.

There would be some added character interactions, maybe Lois and Clark talking about Catwoman from their "Newspaper reporters" perspective, or Alfred's, or possibly some of the Rogues Gallery's perspective. Like I said, though, I would like another storyline. Something more "outside," if you understand what I mean. Most of this is emotional. I think we should have some kind of physical danger. I'd really like to get your input. Is the above a good base? What else do you think should or could be added? Usually, I don't plan stories out much beyond this, and they are OK, but I want this one to be great. Ideally, we would get all the details straigtened out before I start writting.

Your thougts?

6/27/2010 #26
Kairan1979

I think you must throw a supervillain in the mix. The supervillain who uses Catwoman's emotional vulnerability to make her steal something from Watchtower.

6/27/2010 #27
Quorkin

I think it's fine without a villain. This story's conflict is about Bats revealing his secret to Catwoman and both accepting one another for what they do (Bruce's secrecy and Selina's temptation to steal once again).

A second storyline could be the Rogues Gallery gossiping about it. Harley'd be all gushy about it. Ivy would be disgusted over Catwoman's independence broken. Joker would want to mess with her since she's the Bat's girl. Riddler and Two-Face (who are usually her friends- what I get from the comic book crowd) would support her but tell her to watch her back. Penguin is would probably warn her but wouldn't to anything bad. Bane would probably threaten her. So would Killer Croc. Any other villains I can't think of at the moment. Oh and Joker would probably be making fun of the Bat and Cat in some way. This storyline might be a little too unoriginal if you don't play your cards right.

Another storyline I think you could focus on is Gotham's gossip people. Between chapters you can have Gotham's People magazine talk about Bruce Wayne's love life. The focus would be how Selina Kyle appears to be the only lady friend of Bruce Wayne (aside from Veronica Vreeland of B:TAS) that he hasn't hit on yet. This might not have enough stuff to talk about. If you go on for the magazine people to talk about a possible BatCat relationship this might become a bit too much like a parody. With that on mind this could also cause conflict between the writer of the BatCat relationship and her editor. The editor might not want to publish it because he or she just thinks it's too far-fetched. Meanwhile the writer searches valiantly to dig dirt on it. Somehow she or he ends up learning the truth about the BatCat relationship in the end but pulls a "Lois Lane learns Batman is Bruce Wayne" and doesn't publish the story because it could endanger Batman and Catwoman.

Consider the above and then we'll see.

6/27/2010 #28
Tinea

I don't think a villan would be able to manipulate Catwoman into stealing from the League- mostly because no one tells Catwoman what to do. I do think there should be some kind of outside force, though.

The Rogues gossip is a good idea for additional plot points, but it's still not a focus, and it doesn't cause problems. By the time the story starts, Cats will have been on the straight and narrow for a while- weeks, maybe months. The Rogues wouldn't wait so long to attack her, plus she could probably take most of them- especially now that she has the heroes as allies. I dunno, I was thinking that maybe there would be a scene where her deepest fear of abandonment is shown- courtesy of Scarecrow. I don't know about the writer/editor thing. Why would the writter be okay with endangering BM and CW before they learned there was truth to the story, but not after? I do like the gossip about Selina being Bruces only lady friend, though. That could even be encorporated into the Rogue's gossip. Harvey was Bruce's friend before he became a villan, and Selina's friend afterwards. Maybe he could talk to her about how she and Bruce could be 'just-friends', seeing as he personally knew the way Bruce treated beautiful women.

I still feel the need for some form of danger. All the conflict so far has been emotional. Batman's feelings. Selina's feelings. But nothing bad will happen to Bruce if he reveals his identity to Selina or not, and just because Selina is frustrated and tempted to steal doesn't mean the end of the world- things just go back to the way they were before. There needs to be a physical danger: a battle, a death, a betrayal, an injury, a threat, a serious problem that can't be solved with words- something that requires someone to make a choice, with consequenses. Something that the readers hopefully wont expect.

Btw, witch of the two ending did you think was best?

6/27/2010 #29
Quorkin

I liked the second ending because for the emotional conflict to be resolved it would be better for Catwoman to fix it herself instead of an outside force (Superman) fixing it for them. Having her do it, solidifies the fact that she and Bats won't have any problems.

On the other hand, I think the impulsive stealing and then the advice from Superman is more in character and leaves some conflict left. Bats and Catwoman usually always have that cliffhanger about the future feel to me.

In reply to, "Why would the writter be okay with endangering BM and CW before they learned there was truth to the story, but not after?": it would be a cliche do what's right because you've gotten personal with the story you're trying to write.

I'll have to think about a physical danger. Framing Catwoman is yet again unoriginal. We might have to pool in some ideas about that.

6/28/2010 #30
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