The Red vs Blue Review Crew
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GKingOfFez

What about Wyoming? He's probably pretty old.

4/21/2010 #31
mutemockingjay

What about Wyoming? He's probably pretty old.

I kind of get the impression that he is more pretentious than old, though I could see him being kind of old- those English dudes who sit around smoking pipes and dissecting Nietzsche just because they can. XD

4/21/2010 #32
mutemockingjay

So, I was lying in bed watching Recon and thinking about when Wash justifies shooting South to Church. The actual words are lost ot me as I am fucking tired but it went something like this, "Well, she shot me in the back first!"

I was sitting there going, 'God damn, he sounds like a five year old.' When you look back at other parts in Recon you see that same quality in him- a grudge that seems to appear childish in the way he responds to it.

I'm just wondering if Wash was always that way or if that was Epsilon tainting his mind because Church acts similiarly when it comes to Tex.

5/12/2010 #33
mutemockingjay

Okay, here we go.

It had to go into RT with four parts, so I will post it in four parts here.

Musings on Wash Part Un:

I am going to start at the beginning (as it is a very good place to start) with Wash before Epsilon.

Or, I suppose, earlier than that, though we are do not know what he was truly like before Epsilon, so this is mere conjecture on my part in regards to the traits I see in him. First off, we know he is obviously intelligent. Highly intelligent, if we base it on his manner of speaking, He is also impatient- I think this ties into his intelligence in the sense that he has little patience for stupid people, as we see in Reconstruction. Because of that attitude, there is definitely arrogance on his part. Actually, a hell of a lot of arrogance in assertion that he is right in his opinions, simply from this one quote from Recon: "Being wrong isn't a democracy." But there are other things, too (granted, still based on what we see in canon).

There is a huge sense of duty in him, and loyalty when he feels it is required of him- before South shoots him, though we will get to that later. He resisted to order to kill South for those traits- before South shoots him he has a very strong sense of what he considers right and wrong, and killing her for no reason, in his book, was not right. So while he may be loyal, probably to those he cares the deepest for (I will also get to Wash/South in this) he does not bow down to all authority merely because he is told what to do. He thinks for himself, and follows his heart, and his emotions.

That bites him in the ass later, of course. Those qualities, I think are the most likely ones he originally had, before Epsilon. Moving onto to Epsilon. Again, we are not given a lot of details on exactly what happened when Epsilon was integrated into his mind. I bet on a suicide attempt for sure- that would easily get you certified unfit for duty, would it not? And considering the torture and split of the Alpha, and being burdened with those memories it would make the strongest person that desperate for a way out that they would attempt. Maybe that was the crux of the matter- it is mentioned that the AI are only begun to be removed after what happened to Wash, and possibly Carolina, whom I will refer to in the duration of this post as 'Lina because it is easier and because I like that nickname for her.

That maybe, with Epsilon's mind unraveling, a poor, desperate Wash tortured by these memories, saw suicide as the only way to unburden himself from them. There is also the matter of an AI and host becoming dependent on each other, as Tex and Omega show the clearest. I believe it is distinctly possible that Church's traits would rub off on its hosts- with two minds at once it is far easier to do so, like sharing a soul. Epsilon would make it even worse, considering it holds all the memories of the Director and his personality, and the memories of the AI fragments. I started to notice this when I watched Recon. I fall asleep to a RvB DVD every night because it's a comfort thing- I used to have fucking bad panic attacks from hell, and when I'd wake up after a nightmare, or having an anxiety attack it is what eased me back into breathing, and sleep. Anyways. I noticed a little bit of Church's personality in Wash after he shot South in the head, and Church is like, 'wtf is wrong with you?' Paraphrase, naturally, but I still remember Wash's reply: "Well, she shot me first!" It's something Church would say in regards to Tex- I see that attitude with him and Tex, a petty childishness in regards to their relationship. Like, 'well, he hurt me so I'm gonna hurt him back'. Wash has so much bitterness because of Epsilon- we can see it at his core from his very first appearance in Recovery One.

I think he got to the point where he let that bitterness become him, and overlap his own identity, and who he used to be. He has an immediate distrust of everything and everyone, and my suspicion is that has everything to do with Epsilon (whom I shall now refer to as Ep because it is midnight and I can't be bothered to type out those extra letters). How could it not? Ep had been tortured, forced to endure pain that we cannot measure, or understand. His soul and his identity were ripped apart. That would leave Epsilon with paranoia beyond belief- he had been broken so badly by someone he trusted that how could he possibly trust anyone else? Not to mention that Wash cannot trust anyone with the burden of his memories because he will be killed for doing so. And therein lies one of the major problems with Wash- being unable to accept and get through what happened to him.

Now I am going to go a little bit into the realm of personal experience here, and please bear with me as I do so as it has a relevant point to Wash himself. When I was sixteen years old I was hospitalized twice for suicidal thoughts/tendencies. Before you ask, I did not attempt. However, the second time I landed there, I was indeed seeing images- images of myself hanging from the ceiling, dead. That was my preferred method above all- hanging. It turns out that I am bipolar. I only found out this year, and once it was explained to me everything made sense.

I am NOT saying Wash is bipolar here. What I am saying is that if you know me, I am not that way anymore. I don't think about killing myself, and I never will. Why? Because I was able to let it out in some way. I was able to talk about it- with a therapist, hell, with my friends. It was Mel, dear, dear Mel that saw so much of it- saw my collapse and road to fixing. She is my sister, practically, though she is truly Delta to my York- if you knew her, you'd understand. Anyways. Point I am trying to make here as that the more I talked about it, the more I let it out- especially through writing stories, as fiction is..

5/25/2010 . Edited 5/25/2010 #34
mutemockingjay

Wash Part Deux:

Okay, so here I am, back again into this thing. Fiction is how it helps me, as it is easier to look at oneself objectively through that.

Why does this relate to Wash?

Because he never gets a chance to do so. Through my talking, and my writing, I am in the process of letting go what happened to me, and that has changed everything in the world in regards to my mental health. I have accepted what happened, and I have moved on from it. He never gets to do so because he cannot talk about it. He is left in his own thoughts, and ends up stewing in his own bitterness and pain, therefore only making his mental state in a worse state- at the very least, he is at a standstill emotionally. With this in his mind, and with his inability to trust because of Epsilon, it is much like any severely depressed person- when there is good, they don't acknowledge it, but when the bad comes along, it reaffirms their deeper, skewed and unhappy views on themselves and the world as they perceive it.

Which leads us to Wash and South.

Anyone who knows me is well aware that Wash/South is my OTP. And when people find out I usually get, "What the fuck, Ilana- how can you possibly see any kind of love in the relationship between them in canon?' So, give me a moment and bear with me in this crackpot theory here.

Imagine, for instance, that there was some sort of romantic relationship between the two before the implantation. Now, as Massa has asked me: "How is it possible that South would have run into Wash or York, as she never received an AI and was in the implant group behind Wash? And North is the key to that. They were a pair, after all, and it is obvious that North was in an implant group either before Wash, or in the same implant group. It is distinctly possible that South was told she would be in the next group just to get her to shut the hell up, and because of the nature of the experiment of her and her brother she would have run into both of them before the implantation of AI.

That brings us back to our scenario here, which I think explains a lot about South and Wash's behavior in canon. So, they are in love with each other. And we can see that somehow, South is broken inside. Judging by her little speech on North during Recovery One, we can also see that her resentment of her brother went far deeper than not receiving an AI. As I have mentioned above- depressed people ignore the good, and embrace the bad to bolster their beliefs on themselves and others. South's speech would be a classic example of this. Not to mention the forging of her own identity- she never got to do so if she was constantly paired up with him, and forced to be one person as opposed to two different, unique people.

So, imagine her as broken already, when she meets him, and they fall for each other. Love does things to people. It does amazing things. But when something goes wrong, it fucks you up majorly. This would be a case in point with Wash in our little scenario here. He started to lose his mind. And with her love for him, she tried to help, tried to fix him. But she could not, and on top of her brokenness there would be a lot of emotion. Helplessness, for one, in being unable to fix him. Guilt for the same reason. Anger and self loathing, too. And resentment. Resentment at Wash for making her in an even worse emotional state, and perhaps guilt for that resentment too. Add the resentment towards her twin and you have a fucking ugly ass combination there, ready to overflow. He gets certified article 12, and is gone.

And in our little scenario here, this is her turning point, where she becomes the cold, self serving bitch who will do anything and everything to save herself above others. Beyond wounded she would have closed herself off to other people. And there is the appeal of running- when someone like that runs, it is because they are seeking a way out of their problems, their mind (lol Out of Mind) and searching for stability.

Which leads to another (albeit optional) addition to our little love drama here: York. Why York, do you ask? Because of Delta. Delta was spared for a reason- at least, I think so. Why is it that the Meta didn't reach York in time to grab D as opposed to reaching the other Freelancers and AI to grab them? I think Command knew that. Perhaps it was a set up, just as South as Recovery Two was a set up. I also believe that an AI carries the memories of its former host, a concept I explained with York and South in an earlier post here. I am lazy, so I won't go into it now. Let's take a look at York's personality here for a moment. You can tell right away that he is generally easy-going and laid back. He has his pride and his stubbornness, but he has an air of genuine goodness to his core, and kindness- perhaps that is why he and D compliment and get along with each other so well, as opposed to emphasizing bad traits like Tex and Omega. That does not mean he doesn't have pain. You can see the bitterness still inside him when he mentions his eye, and what happened. But he will also admit that it was his pride, his flaws that got him into that mess- something Wash would never own up to, nor would South.

Overall, he seems to be the most stable of all of them in regards to AI. And he has a sense of mercy in him, beyond his pride and stubbornness. While D is hesitant about forgiving Tex, York is willing to do so. He's not stupid or naive in the slightest and doesn't agree right away. But he is still willing to give her that chance, and to work with her. That says everything, and it says what York would mean to a damaged girl like South. He could be a person of support to her, in needy times, especially after Wash and Ep. This is going on the assumption that there was a time lapse between Wash's removal, and that of York and D outside of Command making a living for themselves. Perhaps some time for something to develop between the two of them in her grief and craving to have stability,

5/25/2010 . Edited 5/25/2010 #35
mutemockingjay

Wash Part Trois:

Goddamn, I am out talking myself here, but it's gotta be said. Hell, I am not even at Recre yet! Okay, so back to our triangle of confusion here.

Stability.

That is what South wants, and York, at some point leaves to start his own life. In her depression it is another confirmation of her low self worth- another piece in closing herself off. So perhaps tha is one of the reasons she was chosen as Recovery Two. If this was all a grand plan to lure the Meta out by using Wash, who better to predict what Wash would do than his lover, South?

She would know better than anyone what makes him tick, what decisions she would make. Having closed herself off by now, having become The Bitch, he would still leak under her defenses. That would piss her off majorly. And it is all those old emotions- resentment, etc that would lead to a desire to get back at him at some point.

That brings us to Delta, and the betrayal. Going back to the idea that D holds York's memories, and South's struggle with an AI in her head, this would have messed with her thoughts majorly, impairing her judgment, and reaction time. Her instinct is to run, to get stability. So that is where it kicks in- with being under attack. Pair that with her mess of emotions about Wash, and you have a recipe for trouble. I see the shot in his back as not only a survival mechanism, but a symbol- a literal stab in the back for what happened between them. After all, everything happens for a reason. There is a reason why she shot him beyond that simple survival instinct (though that does play a huge part in some regards cause it is one of our traits as human and animal- fight to the death, and ensure your own survival). And there is a reason why she became the bitch that she is. This is merely my explanation for it. But this leads to several outcomes. On Wash's part, it confirms his paranoia that everyone will betray him, especially those he loves. This is also a remnant of Church's memories as well.

This would also squash any sort of mercy or love inside him- for South and for people in general. He did not hesitate in shooting her, and he has some major fucking pent up anger at her considering what lengths he goes beyond protocol to destroy her body- more than a mere background joke. On South's part, it goes beyond her instinct to run. I think in the end she retains a small part of her mercy for her, and that overrides (in that moment) her looking for stability, hence why she tails him in Recon.

She is ruled by her emotions on some level, and ingores D's logic. This changes when the Meta attacks. As I mention in my post about them earlier, York's memories would get to her. Maybe an AI, something she had so desperately wished for as a way to solve problems (maybe?) wasn't what she wanted after all. Couple that with her self serving instincts, and her unstableness altogether and what do you get?

Someone willing to run again, and give D up to the enemy. Wash knows this. He knows her inside and out because he was her lover. Not to mention what happened in Recovery One. That is perhaps one of the reasons why he has no problem killing her- he won't let that happen again, and it is his paranoia and mistrust talking. And it becomes an ugly cycle on his part. This is his set up for Recre, for the last episode. South is gone, but the betrayal and lies are not.

He knows, by the time he gets to Command, that he will be killed. But there is no way facing your death is easy by any stretch of the imagination and it takes a lot of fucking inner strength to go to it with defiance and a sense of pride, almost.

Like Mala Zitbaum (which I probably spelled wrong), but that is a story for another day.

Wash does not have this inner strength. He is a fucking mess. Going back to the idea that depression will confirm paranoia, even knowing he is going to die doesn't stop him from the betrayal of the Meta shooting him. Also going back to an earlier post, I believe there was a friendship of some kind between Wash and Maine. Wash is the only one who understands the Meta's growlings, Wash is the one who knows that Maine has a phobia of needles, and Wash is the only one the Meta takes orders from (that we know of). I am thinking either a friendship or mentorship between the two, with Wash as the mentor.

I have my own backstory for Maine, but that isn't as revelvant, just as my detailed background for South is. I will leave that one to y'alls imaginations as it differs from person to person, ja? So he would see this as another breach of trust. Wash is tried for treason and destruction of property among other things, and jailed in Recre.

This probably kills him on the inside, too- yeah, he destroyed the evidence of Freelancer. But in his situation, would one do anything less? So he'd be pissed at that. He would also probably give in to that human instinct to run, to survive. Snd he would be even more pissed that Caboose has Epsilon. But his survival instinct, and his coldness and lack of mercy because of South would take over. It is his key out, and he will take that fucker, and selling the fragments of his soul and former identity for it. Hence his speech in the last episode of Recre.

He has been betrayed over and over again. Lost those he loved, lost comrades to insanity due to AI (such as 'Lina), lost comrades in battles and such. Grief, anger, resentment, bitterness, with no way to let it out as we have established before. So he is beyond desperate, and beyond mercy. He will do anything to get his true freedom, and the ability to run away and start new, anonymously. So it is surprising that he killed Donut and Lopez, especially coupled with his original impatience and inability to tolerate stupidity? Not in the least. Hence, where he is now. And my dear, dear Lei-la pointed something out in the epic Warthog episode (the name of which escapes me now). Wash, in the end, is still human and vulnerable, just in that

5/25/2010 . Edited 5/25/2010 #36
mutemockingjay

Wash Part Four:

...It is a sad, sad fact that despite being a member of the French Honors Society in high school I no longer remember how to spell the French word for four?

I can say it, considering I count in French whenever I get a blood test, but whatever.

Going back to my last bit on Wash. In that little scene where he stumbles and falls over the barrels we see his is still vulnerable, he still retains that human quality within him. He is not a mere killing machine now, nor one dimensional now, just by that simple movement. And seeing as it is one am over here, I will leave you guys at that.

God damn, I went further into this than I ever imagined. A parting note: I love wash, I love York, and Wash/South fucking wins at life. Au revior, mes amis~

5/25/2010 . Edited 5/25/2010 #37
Corrupted Lament

In Recon, we actually might have learnt Wash's enhancement. This is purely speculation, but:

When the Meta scrambles Sarge's call, if you look in the lower right hand corner of this pic, you can see that it says 'Epsilon.'

5/31/2010 #38
GKingOfFez

Walking home from school today, I was thinking about nothing in particular, when all of a sudden a random Recon quote came floating into my mysterious mind.

"Like a human mind when it's broken. It fractures itself to protect itself." ((Probably not the right wording, but you get the general idea))

Anyway, said quote got me thinking.

Did Wash automatically know all that stuff from the Memories he got from Epsilon, or did he do his own research after Epsilon went insane?

Just some food for thought.

6/3/2010 #39
AColdAndBrokenHallelujah

G: I think that he got the information in flashes of memories.

Okay, in Episode 9, he was acting really fucking wierd. Like, he blew Doc out of the wall, and then asked how he felt. And then he said, "I don't get paid enough." So he had like two different personalities. He seemed really relaxed with Doc and his plan, but then he was like, "We should just kill them." And then when Doc said no he was all, "Why not?" really coldly.

Did anyone else think that he sounded a lot like South when he said, "Peace talks have broken down."? Because I thought that he sounded a lot like South then, especially at the end of Recovery One.

Anyway, that episode gave me my crack pairing! 8DDDD

And made me love Wash so much more. I had forgotten how awesome he was.

-loves Wash-

6/7/2010 #40
DarkGidora

Wash/Doc?

Go for it.

EDIT: And yeah, he did seem to change from concern for Doc (someone he didn't seem to care about at all, aside from as an info source) back to apathy and cynicism pretty quickly.

6/7/2010 . Edited 6/7/2010 #41
Needs Moar York

Did anyone else think that he sounded a lot like South when he said, "Peace talks have broken down."? Because I thought that he sounded a lot like South then, especially at the end of Recovery One.

Hmmm. I'll have to re-watch Recovery One.

When I was talking to Mel today about Chapter Nine I realized something else about Wash- almost always he sees things as black and white. Good and bad, etc.

Yet ironically enough, all of his emotions, morals and ethics are varying shades of grey. Like his armor. XD

6/7/2010 #42
GKingOfFez

I have been wanting to ask this for a while, actually:

After Epsilon was implanted in Wash, I always thought that the "going insane" thing was instantaneous. Right after Epsilon went in, he immediately started to unravel.

But that's always what I thought. What do you guys think? Do you reckon it took a while or was right away?

6/11/2010 #43
Arctick Child

I think it must have taken time for everything to fall apart, or else the Project would have been closed down much more completely. In addition, the rest of his implantation group must have received their AI, and it's not likely he was the last in the group.

6/11/2010 #44
UnnaturalKetchupTaco

I think that Epsilon slowly started unraveling, immediatly after he was implanted. I imagine that he was implanted, and the first thing that Wash saw was the Alpha being tortured.

6/11/2010 #45
Arctick Child

No, I think it would probably be the truth about Tex. Remember in Reconstruction? He said he already knew all about what she was. Considering how close Allison was to the Director, it's likely those were the first memories Epsilon focused on.

6/11/2010 #46
UnnaturalKetchupTaco

Wash is my new favorite character. Sorry Church, but you're dead. And your evil twin, Epsilon is stuck in the EpsiPod.

Lawl. EpsiPod sounds like some sort of fucked up iPod. When I get a new iPod, I'm going to get a blue one and name it EpsiPod. :D

9/19/2010 #47
AColdAndBrokenHallelujah

I have a new crack!theory.

What if, when he went crazy, it was because of his memories and his mind fragmented?

10/9/2010 #48
mutemockingjay

OMG YES YES YES.

Permission to post that on the LFTO thread, crediting you?

10/10/2010 #49
AColdAndBrokenHallelujah

Sure. 8D

If you tell me what they think of it. xD

10/10/2010 . Edited 10/10/2010 #50
Martienne

This thread has been archived on the backup board.

12/30/2010 #51
Erwin Smith

For some reason, I always imagined Wash as a cocky person who is no doubt intelligent.

And has a really dark past. Call me a sadist, but I think he was abused. oO

3/29/2011 #52
Martienne

Okay, in Episode 9, he was acting really fucking wierd. Like, he blew Doc out of the wall, and then asked how he felt. And then he said, "I don't get paid enough." So he had like two different personalities. He seemed really relaxed with Doc and his plan, but then he was like, "We should just kill them." And then when Doc said no he was all, "Why not?" really coldly.

I think it's starting to look like the hard-nosed, sarcastic Wash we got to know during the Recollections trilogy was something that happened to him sometime after Epsilon was implanted. I first noticed this during the trailer and said something to my husband about how it seemed like Shannon had forgotten how to read Wash in character. But the same tone appeared during his conversation with CT (or Connie, as he kept calling her at first). Not only in his tone, but in her words, it's becoming more clear at least to me that when Wash joined Project Freelancer he was naive and idealistic. It seems like he thought everyone should get along and never be angry.

I was going to support this with lines from the trailer and the episode he appeared in but I CBA to do that right now. So feel free to add or subtract from my theory as you see fit.

8/13/2011 #53
Corrupted Lament

I guess you could say that Wash might have adopted traits from Epsilon after Epsilon broke down. He also could have adopted the more Directoresque traits as the Director is usually cold and we have seen that all versions of Church are sarcastic in some way or other.

8/13/2011 #54
Martienne

I don't know that I see so much sarcasm in post-Epsilon Wash. He's easily exasperated though, and just hardened in some way. The tone of his voice has an edge to it. He's bitter. I think it's that bitterness that drives the more visible changes.

8/13/2011 #55
Corrupted Lament

Or he could still just be overly moralistic. In the latest episodes, we see that Wash is very moral and wants everybody to get along. In Recon, Recre, and Rev, we see that Wash has become bitter because he wanted to bring the Director to justice, he got arrested, and then had to track down Epsilon. We also see that, in the end of Rev, he doesn't need Epsilon as much as evidence as to clear his name. Could this mean Wash is still very moral and sees everything in black and white? That he needs some form of closure to make himself feel better about himself?

8/13/2011 #56
Arctick Child

(bump)

9/5/2011 #57
UnnaturalKetchupTaco

Someone posted something about York's nickname (York opposed to New York) in the York thread, and that made me think about Wash's name.

I think that, at the beginning of the project, he was having every call him Washington, because he was proud to be a Freelancer. But Maine started calling him Wash, and after that everyone started calling him that.

9/7/2011 #58
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