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cerseilannisters

Ever had questions that you wanna discuss with friends and family but their just not Harry Potter nerds like you?

Well Welcome students to Mad Eye Moodys Debate thread. Discuss and debate various questions from Magical politics to which character is the best villian. This thread is to be used for ONLY HARRY POTTER questions and debates. If things get out of hand then 10 points are deducted from your house and you get a warning, do it again and 25 points shall be deducted and you are banned from this thread for 2 days.

This thread is meant to be fun, please do not make it otherwise.

7/1/2010 #1
cerseilannisters

Okay so I deff have a question I would love to ask you guys opinions.

Should JK Rowling have given us better information on the Marauders and characters in that time frame?

My personal opinion is that while she did give us a small prequel with James and Sirius, it wasn't enough. I wanted more information then what we were told and the prequel that was given. Things like Middle names and stuff like that was given after. I would have loved to know who people like Marlene Mckinnion is, and Mary MacDonald were.

While alot of people write amazing fanfics with out this information I would like to know how JK Rowling sees them, what she can come up with.

7/1/2010 #2
Free Dreamer Night Writer

Leesh I completly see your point in wanting (or needing) more information, but I'm actually happy with what we were given. Part of the fun with it is filling in the gaps with our own ideas and stories which is something we can't do with Harry's era unless its with an extremely unknown character.

7/1/2010 #3
Dejsha's World

There was a prequel?

I am glad that she gave us some memories to work on, at least; they can (though they are very few) show us what the friendship was like between the students during this time.

Think about it; there is more information about them then there is about the Founders of Hogwarts.

7/1/2010 #4
Static Lull

I think JK did a decent job of painting at least a small picture of the characters from the era, though I totally agree in wishing she had given a few more details, for example, I would lovelovelove to know who Lily and James parents were (though to be fair she gives us enough information to speculate about James's). I also wish she would dispel the whole 'the entire order were in the same year at Hogwarts' myth. It totally goes without saying this isn't true, but it's something I see a lot in fanon (and I'll admit to occasionally cramming them closer together in age than they maybe should be).

On the other hand, giving us so little detail has also enabled writers to have tons of fun fleshing them out for themselves. So I'm a little torn with this.

7/1/2010 #5
Dejsha's World

I agree with the last post; detail is good, but its good for us fanfiction writers/authors.

7/1/2010 #6
echoing noise

Im happy with what she's given us, it actually makes fanfiction more fun. actually, when I think of canon harry, I actually have a little trouble because I've read so many fanfics, and it all just gets superimposed togethor...

7/1/2010 #7
with the monsters

I'm sort of with you and sort of not, Leesh ;) I'd love to see some more interactions between Sirius and James, because I think they'd have been two absolutely hilarious characters -- and also I'd like to know more about how Lily and James eventually ended up together -- because so many fanfics nowadays just have "and then they was like all mean and then they suddenly kissed and realised they were perfect for each other and they got married and had baby Harry and died." It drives me insane.

But, at the same time, the lack of info gives more room for manoeuvre for us fanfic writers out here, and more scope for speculation, just like with the Next Gen ;)

7/2/2010 #8
goldeneyedgirl247

Lol, I sometimes think that JKR designed parts of HP for fan fiction. She basically gave us a frame that the story sits between with a vague beginning and end (epilogue). It's like she threw a colouring book at a toddler with crayons "here, fill this in!" I personally would have loved to see how she would've written the marauders in detail, but I know that had I had access to that I would never had read/discovered fan fiction. Did that make any sense?

7/2/2010 #9
graciegraceland

That does make sense, if JKR gave us all the information there would be no reason for us to come up with our own ideas about it (no fanfiction, ahh!). But thank godness for the epilogue and the extra stuff she told us about the pairings, etc. even if I disregard some of them, I don't know what I would have done without those...

7/5/2010 #10
Eccentric11

for Leesha's question, I agree with Alice. I mean, J.K. Rowling gave us just enough information to work with, but not too much as to restrict us from our own creations. :) I definitely would be very happy if she write another book for say the next gen or the Marauders, but for now, what we got is enough. :)

7/6/2010 #11
greencyanide

on Leesha's question, I think JKR has given us what she thought is enough, but that satisfies very few of us. For one, I would like to know exactly what happened between James and Lily that made her ideas about him change poles! and secondly, and i don't know what Dumbledore meant when he said snape couldn't forgive james because the latter saved his life(end of PS). did JKR mention it anywhere? by now i have read so many fanfics i am not sure what i read in the original series and what i did not.

7/7/2010 #12
PenonPaperFingersonKeys

On Leesha's question I think she should have. We were left in the dark about the events that occured between fifth year where Lily was calling him a bullying toe-rag and seventh year where they went out. It's just a leap in time and we're going: huh?

I've got a question. Would you send your child to Hogwarts? This is mainly directed at the parents in this forum. There is blatant favouritism, they focus solely on magic and the parents -say you are a Muggle, which you are- don't even know about the school. So, in short, would you send your child to Hogwarts considering the safety, moral and location situations of the school. But, with that said, it also gives Muggle-Borns a chance to embrace the fact that they are not alone and to be 'normal' in all respects and purposes. There would be obvious conflict if they continued to go to Muggle schools. Considering all these aspects what would be your answer?

Mine would most certainly be yes, but I am not in position to say that as I don't have a child. The only thing that I would reenforce in the Summers they came home would be tutoring in English, Maths, Science and all the Muggle subjects. I would also send with them textbooks to read over in their free time.

7/8/2010 #13
greencyanide

I would reenforce in the Summers they came home would be tutoring in English, Maths, Science and all the Muggle subjects. I would also send with them textbooks to read over in their free time.

I wouldn't want to be your child ! :P

7/8/2010 #14
PenonPaperFingersonKeys

:) Well my brother and dad constantly tell me that - alongside saying they wouldn't want to be my husband. But, aside from that, think of the limited possibilities if they don't succeed in the Wizarding world. They would have no Muggle fallbacks that would earn them money!

7/8/2010 #15
FirstYear

aside from that, think of the limited possibilities if they don't succeed in the Wizarding world. They would have no Muggle fallbacks that would earn them money!

Readers don't see that. I wrote a story in which Hermione could not find a job, the war had just ended and places in the wizard world were not rebuilt yet, and she had no Muggle talents. Review after review said such a bright girl would have found something and I was way off base and was making her out of character.

I have also done stories on Snape and been told "he would be better off leaving and living as a Muggle"...yep, big call for potion making in London. That's the fun of fanfiction, the further from reality the seemingly the better the story.

7/8/2010 #16
PenonPaperFingersonKeys

They would have to rely on pratical skills - such as acting, cooking, dancing, singing et cetera. If they were to apply to Muggle jobs - which I assume some people did - what school would they put down? What Muggle education would they have recieved? Hermione is a smart girl yet she didn't learn advanced Maths, only the simple ones. Maths is needed for day to day things. I think, personally, that Hogwarts should have opened Muggle education in their criteria.

7/8/2010 #17
greencyanide

well, i don't think i ever read about unemployment in the wizarding world. besides even the humblest wizards are too proud to send their CVs to muggle offices if there's a recession the wizarding world, don't you think?

7/9/2010 #18
PenonPaperFingersonKeys

Wouldn't that just be discriminating against Muggles again? Although families like the Weasleys and Potters and et cetera claim there is no difference between them and Muggles they wouldn't apply for a job in the Muggle world. Isn't that being superior towards them? In my opinion yes. There would be some wiazrding families that thought Muggles and them were equal, therfore they would be open to Muggle jobs. Even the humblest wizards could be living on the streets and if they were in that position they would of course have no other alternatives. If they were taught Muggle culture and subjects they would have other options.

7/9/2010 #19
xabandonedaccountx

I actually agree with PenonPaperFingersonKeys. If a witch or wizard chooses to live in the Mugle world for whatever reason (or they are forced to live there) then having more than basic knowledge would be an advantage. Imagine if this was you and you moved to a foreign country and knew nothing about the culture and only a few basic words, wouldn't that frustrate you that no-one was able to understand you and vice-versa. A wizard beind educated in Muggle subjects would not only help him if he decided to live or work there but it would also show that he does not think himself superior because he can do magic.

7/9/2010 #20
Eccentric11

for @Finger's question.. I would send my child to Hogwarts (if I have any). I mean, if my child have magical powers, I wouldn't want him/her to not know anything about it. But yes, I'll keep him/her updated with the real world too...

also, about Hermione... I think she have pretty decent Muggle knowledge because her childhood was spent in the Muggle World and she's at least not confused with basic stuff.

7/10/2010 #21
DoubleCaramel

Wouldn't that just be discriminating against Muggles again?

Not exactly. It's more a issue of pride, see, its as if you spent years in college studying to be a lawyer (e.g.) but for some reason you lose your job, would you agree to a job as a waitress before waiting until the last minute to see if any other opportunity appeared?

In the wizarding world it's the same thing, they've spent too many years studying to pursue magical education to throw everything away and work as a muggle. Besides, working as a muggle would be hard, a wizard could only grab jobs as such as housekeeper, waitress or something in the liberal arts area; no wizard would be accepted in any other job, even if they confunded the interviewer and got the job they wouldn't be able to keep it for long.

And of course they could try and pursue a muggle education (but remember even with Muggle Studies - that would help for jobs such as hairdresser, and waitress e.g. ) they would need intense tutoring (to learn Maths, Physics, etc) before applying for university and doing that would be rather ridiculous; it would be more intelligent for them to simply wait or try their way in finding another job in the wizarding world.

In the end it would be as difficult for a wizard (even muggleborn - since they start their wizarding education at eleven) to find a job in the muggle world as it would be for a muggle to find a job in the wizarding world.

7/11/2010 #22
Schermionie

...There was a prequel? Actually written by JKR? Um. I've never heard of this. What was it called?

On the subject of the Marauders: I would have liked some more information about how James changed. But I'm not really into Marauder era and I'm the kind of person who likes filling in the gaps rather than being given loads of information, so essentially, too much information would be a bad thing for me.

On the subject we're on right now: I agree with DoubleCaramel that it is not so much discrimination - it's simply that getting wizarding jobs is easier for the wizards, and also, working as a Muggle would be like throwing their whole world away for many of them.

I'm not a mother, so I can't know for sure, but I would probably send my child to Hogwarts if he or she were magical. I can't say I would be happy about all those problems, but at the same time, magic is obviously something that needs to be taught and controlled, and not sending my child there would be stifling their potential. I'd probably be the same as PPFK, though, because although they would have to learn essay-writing skills at Hogwarts, the students aren't formally taught it. Not learning one's native language and maths is a serious lapse in education, in my opinion.

I have a question: If Sirius had lived, do you think he would have become a better parental influence for Harry?

7/12/2010 #23
iMissHP

I don't think Sirius would have been a parental figure to Harry if he had survived. He had been thrown in Askaban when he was 21, and escaped 13 years later, but he hadn't grew up normally. He didn't taste the liberty and if he had survived I think he would have been more like a brother than a father to Harry. He had 13 years to catch up for. He sure would have had an influence on Harry's life, but in my mind Remus would have been more of a parental figure.

I don't know if it's clear.

7/12/2010 #24
Bad Mum

I agree with tat. There's a line in OotP where someone (Mrs Weasley? Remus?) says to Sirius about Harry, "He's not James!"

I think there was a big part of Sirius that was inevitably still the 21 year old who went into Azkaban. He would see Harry as a second chance at his friendship with James rather than as a father/son thing. Remus, with thirteen years of (fairly horrible mostly) real life behind him, would have much more experience of the real world and be much better qualified as a father figure.

7/12/2010 #25
FirstYear

That, and the fact that Sirius never had a true father figure of his own to draw upon.

7/12/2010 #26
DoubleCaramel

...There was a prequel? Actually written by JKR? Um. I've never heard of this. What was it called?

Yes. She wrote 800 words on James and Sirius for a charity event, she eventually posted the story online because it's such a short piece. You can find the details of the event, and the piece she wrote here (I am sure it's also in her own website) : http://crushable.com/entertainment/the-harry-potter-prequel-read-it-here/

If Sirius had lived, do you think he would have become a better parental influence for Harry?

I think he would've always been the "cool Uncle", he spent most of his adulthood in Azkaban and never really had the opportunity to grow up, sure the circumstances he went trough were awful and he surely learnt a lot from them but at the same time he just wanted to live and do things without regard for the consequences, which wouldn't make him a good father figure.

7/13/2010 . Edited 7/13/2010 #27
Dejsha's World

I agree about Sirius being the "uncle" figgure rather than the father figgure; that's a good point about him having to "grow up."

7/13/2010 #28
Schermionie

Oh, thanks so much, Double Caramel! :) :)

Bad Mum, the 'He's not James!' quote was exactly what I had in mind when I asked this question.

First Year, you make a good point about Sirius lacking a father figure to draw experiences of parenting from. Along with all the points that everyone has brought up, it wouldn't have helped at all. Personally, I don't see Sirius ever being responsible enough to become a proper father figure for Harry, though I think that had he not been imprisoned, and if he had been able to spend more time with Harry, he would have improved.

However, I have to disagree about Remus being a suitable substitute for James. True, he is better qualified than Sirius, but while he did help Harry out a great deal, he was distant, too. Remus had many problems of his own and I don't think he considered himself a suitable guardian for Harry, so to speak. I'm not sure he would ever have properly stepped up to the mark.

7/13/2010 #29
iMissHP

Well, I didn't say Remus was a substitute for James, but the person (aside Arthur) who was closer to a father figure to Harry. And I think if he had survived the battle he would have had of a good affluence over Harry, well more mature than the one Sirius would had had.

But I totally agree that he didn't considered himself as a good guardian.

7/13/2010 #30
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