Order of the Concritters
This forum is dead and kept for historical purposes only. Carry on.
New Follow Forum Follow Topic
Persephone999

If you're currently writing a story which includes an OC and are worried about the possibility of creating a Sue, or if someone has outright stated that you have a Sue on your hands, then fill out the form below to get some feedback on your characters.

--------------------------------------------------

Definitions of Sues

Mary Sue= A character who the writer is a little too fond of or who has a large plot bias. If there is a massacre, everyone but her will die. She will often be perfect by the author's standard and perception and will have no real flaws or detrimental attributes(false flaws include clumsiness and a temper, because they serve only to make a character seem cute). Because they are perfect, they can't grow and aren't relatable. May also have a tacked on tragic past or be ridiculously skilled. Also refferred to as the Author's Darling.

Marty Stu/Gary Stu= Male equivalent of Mary Sue.

Black Hole Sue- A type of Mary-Sue who has too much page-time. The only time she will be absent is for other characters to talk about her. Annoying because she's force fed to the reader until they're sick of the sight of her.

Canon Sue= A canon character who is a Sue.

--------------------------------------------------

Full Name:(including any nicknames, aliases or middle names. If you had a specific reason for the character's name, put that down too, please)

Age(if mental, physical or actual ages differ(e.g. "16 but looks 23"), put that too):

Appearance(What does your character look like? Use quotes from the story if possible. As much detail as you want):

Background(Your character's life up till the beginning of the story. Any major events should go in here, too):

Personality:

Any major changes made to cannon(e.g. removal of a character, changes to background, etc):

Main events in story(What happens to this character? What does your character do?Please mention any pairings):

Skills(skip if this is usual in cannon and your character is not adept at it, e.g. riding a broom in the HP universe doesn't need to go in here, but it should if the character is the school's fastest broom rider):

Other(anything else that you think is important):

Please take any comments with maturity and integrity. Any criticism is not a personal attack.

1/18/2011 . Edited 7/25/2011 #1
Persephone999

Just to check before I get too into my story.

Full Name:(including any nicknames, aliases or middle names. If you had a specific reason for the character's name, put that down too, please) Amanda Berck

Age(if mental, physical or actual ages differ(e.g. "16 but looks 23"), put that too): 16

Appearance(What does your character look like? Use quotes from the story if possible. As much detail as you want): Bleached blonde hair with mousey brown roots. Heavy makeup and a nose-stud, both of which she is later forced to remove.

Background(Your character's life up till the beginning of the story. Any major events should go in here, too): Her parents are divorced, and she drove her father to the end of his tether with her bad behavior, drinking and staying out. At some point, she got involved with a boy and began dating him, believing herself to be in love even though he didn't respect her and ditched her once she'd slept with him a few times. The pregnancy scare that resulted was the final straw for her father, who sent her to live with his mother in the hopes that the shock of strict treatment might make her sort herself out a bit.

Personality: She begins the story as stroppy, headstrong and thinking she's always right. Her saving grace is her sense of humour and her idolism of her mother. Over the course of the story, she begins to grow up a bit.

Any major changes made to cannon(e.g. removal of a character, changes to background, etc): not applicable.

Main events in story(What happens to this character? What does your character do?Please mention any pairings): Undecided. So far, she's went to live with her grandmother.

Skills(skip if this is usual in cannon and your character is not adept at it, e.g. riding a broom in the HP universe doesn't need to go in here, but it should if the character is the school's fastest broom rider): She can sew quite well. Her GCSE results are all low Cs, except for Art where she got a B.

Other(anything else that you think is important): Part of an original story.

2/2/2011 #2
Stolloss

Canon Sue= Basically a gender flipped version of a canon character

I thought this was a character who was a Sue, or extremely close, in canon. Your definition seems to be that of a gender bender.

2/2/2011 #3
Persephone999

Changed it for you.

2/2/2011 #4
Persephone999

Full Name: Daphne, Daf occasionally. French name because the story is set in France.

Age: 18-ish(not stated).

Appearance(What does your character look like? Use quotes from the story if possible. As much detail as you want): Has not been described in the story past having eyes "the colour of month old bread" and dark circles beneath her eyes.

Background(Your character's life up till the beginning of the story. Any major events should go in here, too): A dancer on the sixth of eight rows, and a close friend of the protagonist.

Personality: Patient, gentle, but insecure and easy to dominate. She has problems asserting herself and pushes herself too hard. She also has a tendency not to think things through when panicked and can jump to conclusions. She is, however, a good listener and a loyal friend. She is easily frightened at times, but will try to press on if the issue is important.

Any major changes made to cannon(e.g. removal of a character, changes to background, etc):

Main events in story(What happens to this character? What does your character do?Please mention any pairings): In the story, she develops health problems due to sleep deprivation after several people get laid off- she becomes increasingly frightened of losing her job and reacts by using the time she should be sleeping to practice. She is a a friend of the protagonist. She finds a rose in her dorm meant for her roomate and witnesses the suspicious death of a stagehand along with several other people. Terrified at the notion that someone had to have been in her room to put the rose there, she buys a pistol from a less than pleasant character using her savings. Because she only had the funds to pay half the asking price, he then uses this to extort money from her. When she finally manages to pay the debt off, he may blackmail her into other situations by threatening to tell that she has the gun, which isn't allowed in the Opera House. A possible eventual love interest to the main character.

Skills(skip if this is usual in cannon and your character is not adept at it, e.g. riding a broom in the HP universe doesn't need to go in here, but it should if the character is the school's fastest broom rider): A good soprano voice and a good listener.

Other(anything else that you think is important): Not very good at her job.

Please take any comments with maturity and integrity. Any criticism is not a personal attack. Will occasionally try to help out passively.

2/27/2011 #5
Serenity in Virginia

Full Name: Nathan Taylor (though never stated last name)

Age: 10

Appearence: Short, spiky ,brown hair, brown eyes

Personality: Not afraid to speak his opinion, friendly, caring (all gathered from context clues)

Main Events: His father was killed in nature, he has moved on but in that state where if someone brings it up he will cry again. His mom is seeing a new man, unironically a hunter. Which he is against. Because of the Great Prince (a Bambi character) he can now converse with animals. The reason he gave him that power is because he killed his father and felt sorry.

Skills: Skilled drawer

2/28/2011 #6
Persephone999

Doesn't seem too sueish. How did the Great Prince kill his dad and why?

3/2/2011 #7
Persephone999

Full Name: Has yet to be named. Am considering Daisy because the name of the story is currently "Daisies in the Dark"(Will probably change later on). If it doesn't change, it's trying to convey how little she knows about life.

Age: 17-ish.

Appearance: Nose stud that her aunt makes her take out.

Background: Lived with her father. Has spent her teenage out of control. Her relationship with her father was fairly strained, partly due to her reckless behavior and partly because she blames him for kicking her mother out, not knowing the reasons(it's implied later that she has an alcohol problem and began stealing to fund it). Her behavior included smoking, staying out all night and a relationship with an older man who her father didn't approve of for various reasons. When her college grades began to suffer, her father made her promise to ditch him. A week or so later, he caught her sneaking back into the house, resulting in a huge argument. Deciding that this was the final straw, he agreed to let his sister Janet, a tough woman who'd spent years in the army, take her in with the hopes that she'd straighten herself out if forcibly removed from her boyfriend.

Personality: Stubborn and melodratic when first introduced, and a bit snarky. She has a fairly average amount of intelligence but lacks in common sense and will often rebel purely for the sake of it, often not thinking it through and then having to face the consequences. Having said this, she does eventually start to grow up a bit and has got some decency and moral standards- for example, she is disgusted by anyone who takes advantage of someone vulnerable.

Main events in story: She is sent to live with her Aunt Janet, who quickly sets about giving her some very strict rules to follow. Among other things, Janet her sends to the local sixth-form to resit Science( also allowing her to pick some subjects of her own, one of which is art) and having her do volunteer work at the old peoples home "to show that the world doesn't revolve around you". After initial problems, she begins to thrive under the very ordered lifestyle and learns to become more responsible and trustworthy. However, she also notices some very odd things going on around her. The urban town she is now living in seems to have a serial killer on the lose whose victim of choice tends to be people within the range of 15-22. The truth, however, is stranger than she could have dreamt.

Skills: A good liar. She is fairly artistic and likes to sew.

Other:

Please take any comments with maturity and integrity. Any criticism is not a personal attack. Will occasionally try to help out passively.

4/2/2011 #8
Ataokoloinona

If you like taking quizzes they have them to test for mary sue-ness, like this one: http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm

I even found one for Naruto specifically once but I can't remember where it was...

4/8/2011 #9
Serenity in Virginia

I thought the term for a male Mary Sue was a Gary Sue...

7/23/2011 #10
Persephone999

They're also referred to as Gary Stus.

7/25/2011 #11
Damon Howe

Alright, I like this topic because I always have a problem with creating sues...and Lord do I hate sues...

I tried to make this guy seem sortof average. Granted, he's had a lot of military training and he's still young/"in his prime", but I'm trying to make him as human as possible. Any suggestions would be more than welcome.

Name: James Cham

Age: 23

Gender: MALE

Military Rank: Staff Sergeant(OR-5) - Promoted early on to Lieutenant due to a training fiasco and military coverup.

Appearance: 5'7" 130lbs Small build, and some muscles, able to do basic job but not much of a heavy lifter. Brown hair/eyes, Mediterranean skin (white but fairly tanned).

Weapon(s) of Choice: Ninjatō sword on back, strapped along spine removed from over the head; Kunai kept in pouch on left side (20 avg, half poison-tipped), Combat knife strapped on the right-side of the chest removed by pulling down, and two short daggers strapped to the back. Carries a P-90 with 5 mags (250 rounds of ammo) but rarely uses it.

Personality: Duel personality. Outside of combat, loves to laugh, carry on, hang out with friends. Will be supportive and loyal to those he trusts. Very religious, but admits he doesn't live like it most times. In solitude, reads from time to time, loves to keep up on the news (good or bad). Plays video games, but loves the outdoors and especially the forests and mountains. In combat, totally serious, won't take jokes, and is completely dedicated to the survival of every man on his team. Personalities often clash with each other when amongst comrades and family, as most people have a hard time adjusting. Habits and quirks: Drinks but never gets drunk (history of bad parties steered him away from it) doesn't do any other drugs. Whistles when he's nervous/needs to hear something besides the nature around him (can't whistle well, just make low humming sounds). Talks with his hands in front of him, often stands with right foot in front of left (as a result of training).

Abilities and flaws:

Specialties - Stealth, intelligence gathering, ambush, orientation (map and compass work) tracking, thinking on the fly/improvising, lying, flying and leaving no trace of presence. Also is a bit of a nature buff. Expert in blade and open-hand combat techniques (but is also constantly looking for better fighters to learn from) and specializes at attacking the pressure points of the body and immobilizing his combatant. Also loves groundfighting.

Flaws - Straight-up, front lines combat (not good with trying to handle a multitude of battles at once, but is very good with short, quick fights). Can be clostrophobic in unfamiliar areas but can usually supress it. Can't be in long, drawn-out fights as he tires quickly and isn't that stong; or slug-matches. In general, somewhat lazy and can be a little bit of a slob in his living space. Can't make friends easily as a result of always being on edge/paranoid, and this often pisses off everyone around him. Also has a slight loss of hearing, often associated with a ringing in his ears. Women.

Likes: -Night, the calm before the storm, flying, lightning, warmth of the sun (outside of combat), nature in general and identifying things in nature (like pokemon calls, etc) and learning about his world and especially his pokemon.

Dislikes: -Sun when he's in combat, people who act like they have it all together, people who look down on him, and losing/seeing his friends get hurt/killed. Also, when people pick fights with him over what he believes.

History/Backstory: Parents, Younger sister (20), Younger brother (18). Oldest in the family, was a pokemon trainer/breeder for a while before he joined the service at 18. Was a well-ranked trainer and competed in the Hoenn League several times, at best finishing in the top 8 (twice, as a 17 and 18 yr old). Learned basic breeding/caretaking of pokemon from personal studies and family friends. Made money as a trainer but not enough so he joined the service to do what he loved (thought he loved) which was serving his country and protecting what was dear to him. Loving childhood where he got mostly what he needed and what he wanted if he performed well and helped to take care of the family (never got spoiled...too much). Single his whole life.

---

I think that's everything, some things are left out/edited for reasons. Please be critical!

8/3/2011 . Edited 8/3/2011 #12
Sextuple Covalent Mo2 Bond

Christ, how much ammo and how many weapons does the dude need?

If you want to keep a simple average John Everyman, you'll want basic military entrance weaponry or something, nothing that spectacular. Make sure he doesn't do these amazing things or something with what he has, though. Keep things basic but flavorful.

he got mostly what he needed and what he wanted if he performed well and helped to take care of the family (never got spoiled...too much). Single his whole life.

Call it a personal taste, but that screams "Sue" at me.

Promoted early on to Lieutenant

That too.

Weapon(s) of Choice: Ninjatō sword on back, strapped along spine removed from over the head; Kunai kept in pouch on left side (20 avg, half poison-tipped), Combat knife strapped on the right-side of the chest removed by pulling down, and two short daggers strapped to the back. Carries a P-90 with 5 mags (250 rounds of ammo) but rarely uses it.

As previously stated... that's way too much. That crap sounds like it would weigh him down anyways. The part where it's like "Oh, I pack all this heat... but I rarely use it!" seems slightly Sue-ish as well.

but is very good with short, quick fights

Be careful on this. Don't make the guy kick the ass of everyone he comes near just because it's a short/quick fight. Give him decent losing potential like anyone else. Handle this well, and it can work out. Handle it poorly, it'll drive the character to hell.

Overall... I think you need to tone shit down a bit. Not a bad character, but it does need a bit of work.

Check out the Mary-Sue test, as well. If you like, that is~

8/3/2011 . Edited 8/3/2011 #13
Ten ways to spoil dinner

Oh, I just noticed this thread. How useful. I have an OC that I always wondered about, if he was too Stu-ish. Eh... I'm gonna be lazy, and C/P my character's bio, with maybe a few edits, being he'll be somewhat different in the story.

Name: Justin Bailey

Corny nickname he came up with: Metroid Man.

-Made to sound corny :P

Age: 25

Species: Genetically altered Human, hybridized with Metroid DNA.

Home-World: Colony A-15

Gender: Male

Height: 5 ft, 9 inches.

Weight: 118 (Rather light due to goo.)

Biological Appearance: Through genetic experiments, his body has taken on a new form. His bones, whatever ones he has left, now resemble a thin cartilage, although it's likely something else. He no longer has skin, but was replaced with a thin, semi-translucent membrane. There are noticeable veins that can be seen throughout his body, becoming more dense near his arm fangs and his mouth.

He also has something that looks like a cross between the nuclei in Metroids and a human brain in his head. Two more of these nuclei-like objects can also be seen in his chest, surrounded by clusters of veins. His body is shape is rather lean. His arms also have a fang-like spike portruding out of each of them. For the most part, not counting the alien features, his body is humanly shaped, even though he no longer has visible ears, or a nose, or eyes. He has a mouth, with fangs.

Personality: His personality has yet to be fully developed. I've tried playing him as a somewhat goofy, immature character, and I've tried giving him a more stereotypical 'soldier' personality, but I can't seem to find something that suits him. So that's the big thing I've yet to think up. I suppose he might just seem like... a normal guy. No particular stand-out personality traits. But with his becoming a mutated hybrid, I suppose that would affect it. Just not entirely sure how...

Goals: His entire reasoning to join the military was to fight the Space Pirates. After being their guinea pig, he has more reasons to want their heads on a pike.

Skills and Abilities: His new 'skin' is very durable, and can absorb a large amount of shock, though it's weaker than that of an actual Metroid's. He can store kinetic energy in his body in a similar fashion to Metroids, but, unlike them, he can only use it to boost his jumping capabilities about five extra feet. His sight is thermal. And, as with Metroids, he can absorb a creature's life energies using his fangs (while this seems to nourish him, it seems to have no other effects on him). However, the blades on his arms seem unable to. Due to his being a Marin in the GF, he also has had combat training and can use standard GF weaponry.

Weaknesses: Ice, or anything cold will quickly take him out, due to the Metroid DNA. Due to his vision being thermal, if he's fighting something that's about the same temperature as everything around him, it'll be practically invisible to him. He can be killed with most conventional Metroid weaponry, but it would take more to kill him than it would a regular military recruit.

Armor and Weapon: Two spikes, which look like the longer teeth Metroids have, protrude from his arms. His durable skin acts as his armor.

Character History: Justin Bailey grew up on the colony A-15 to a biologist father, and a mother who served in the miltary. As a child, he would study basic biology under his father, until they learned about the death of his mother in a Space Pirate attack. Afterwards, his father grew increasingly cold and distant. Justin eventually decided to join the GF as a soldier, wanting to fight the menace that had killed his mother. During a battle with Space Pirates, he and several other soldiers were captured by the enemy, and were experimented on. Justin was one of only a handful to survive the initial experiments, as the Metroid DNA was bonded with his and several others. He and two others survived all the testings, though one seemed to go insane. Eventually, he and the other sane test subject managed to escape the testing facility, and the Pirate Base-world, with the help of a semi-reluctant Space Pirate scientist.

Other: Pairing wise, Justin falls for the test subject person he escaped with (I've long since forgotten her name, and cannot find me notes on her). The story I plan to use is in first-person, from Samus' POV. I didn't have much planned, but I did have a few ideas. I just forgot a lot of them... *sadface*. As a final note- I do recall having Samus kick his ass when they first meet. Ice Beam goes BOOM ;)

---

Eh, I think he's alright, though still a bit underdeveloped, but other opinions would be great~

8/3/2011 #14
Damon Howe

Christ, how much ammo and how many weapons does the dude need?

Actually, I've heard the average soldier in the US military carries 270 rounds of ammo, so that's what I was trying to base it on.

he got mostly what he needed and what he wanted if he performed well and helped to take care of the family (never got spoiled...too much). Single his whole life.

Call it a personal taste, but that screams "Sue" at me.

Eh, that's kinda based on my personal life (yeah I know, that's really Mary Sue-ish) What change would you recommend/consider for this?

I'll admit the promotion bit is a stretch, but if you would read the chaptered explaination I would hope that'd cover it up a bit. As far as promotions go that's as far as he makes it.

As previously stated... that's way too much. That crap sounds like it would weigh him down anyways. The part where it's like "Oh, I pack all this heat... but I rarely use it!" seems slightly Sue-ish as well.

I see your point here. I actually cut a lot of crap out...hmmm...would a rotation of weapons work better, or would that seem MORE sue-ish? The point behind him packing lots of heat is that he's special forces operations, so he needs a lot of weapons, but at the same time (especially with the gun) he rarely uses it because it'd draw attention to himself whereas his "mission" would depend on stealth above all else. idk, I'm actually a little under the influence of alcohol at this point, so that fact that I'm spelling correctly is surprising me.

Be careful on this. Don't make the guy kick the ass of everyone he comes near just because it's a short/quick fight. Give him decent losing potential like anyone else. Handle this well, and it can work out. Handle it poorly, it'll drive the character to hell.

Understood...my point here was if he can't take down his opponent in the first several strikes, he's toast and likely to run.

Anyways, thanks for the constructive criticism!!!

8/3/2011 #15
Akatsuki-lvr1595

Its a character for a fanfic I'm debateing on writing and if you dont know the book, Its a very good book. I reccomend it if you like young adult fictions.

Full Name: Kira Ann King (K-chan or KK by Toko). Right now Kira is the name I'm liking the most, I go through fazes for my character names. Age: 17. Appearance: She's short, about 5'4. Her hair is red and messy; and it never seems to want to lay flat or cooperate. Her eyes are pale green; and she has freckles on her nose. Kira's pretty flat chested, average weight for a 17 year old. Has a scar over her right eye from a car accident when she was 14 Background: Her father married her mother, and moved to the states from England before she was born. Her grandfather didn't approve of her father's choice and disowned him. Her father died during a bank robbery when her mother was 4 months pregnant with Kira. She grew up in south Boston, in an Irish neighborhood where she met her best friend, while playing in a park. When she was 14 her mother picked her up from her friends and was driving home when a drunk driver T boned them. The impact killed the drunk, and put Kira's mother in the hospital for a head injury, but nothing serious. All Kira had received was a cut over her eye causing a scar. When Kira is 17, she came home and found a robber in her home. He had already killed her mother, and was busy looting the apartment. Kira shouted for help and tried to jump the robber, but was hit over the head and was knocked uncontious. For a few months, kira stayed with her friend and her fathers while the government worked out custody problems. She moved to Hollow village, in England and into Hallow Hill Estate where her grandfather resides. There are two maids, who take care of her grandfather who is ill with cancer.

Personality: Kira is all talk, no bite. She is loud, obnoxious and has a sailors mouth. She has a childish behavior and is often called a brat by her grandfather. Shes violent, but not strong at all; has a soft side for cats. She calls her friend a social butterfly while she is a antisocial moth. She hates therapists, and likes to tease them. She has an obsession with a card game she and her friend play. Any major changes made to cannon: the main character Kate Winslow is removed and is replaced by Kira, if you've read the book "the Hollow Kingdom" by Clare B. Dunkle you would get it. Aunt Prim and Pam are removed as well, and so is Emily. The Uncle is taken out as well. So pretty much all the major cannons except the main goblins. Main events in story: it fallows the plot line mostly, some things may change if I can't remember what happens next. If you haven't read the book, I strongly urge you to do so, its realy cool, though the second half isn't as good at the first half. She does get married to the second main character though, wich is pretty much the main plot. Skills: uhm…does not knowing when to shut up count? also she likes to sing disney songs, and what about being nocturnal? would that be a skill...or a personality querk?(sp)

8/14/2011 #16
Serenity in Virginia

Full Name: Keda (pronounced Kay-duh) (a.k.a Lone Wolf (wolves of former pack, meant to be an insult), Master Rhino's Third Student (Furious Five and Po)

Age: 26

Appearence: Dark brown fur, red eyes, mid size body, long tail, tight fitting leather garment, leather guantlets, baggy, cotton, light brown pants, black toed shoes, Katana (weapon). He is a wolf (The red eyes are a norm for the wolves in this fandom).

Background: Abandoned at birth alongside his older brother (the Wolf Boss, named Dende in my story). When he turned 16, he joined Shen's army. On their first attack, he killed one panda (Po's mother) and was mortified with himself. He tried to get his brother to escape the army along with him, but he refused, claiming he enjoyed killing. The two fight leading Keda to go into a fit of rage and scratch his brother's eye out. While he was supposed to become leader of the wolves, he was ashamed of himself for killing twice (really once, his brother is still alive) so he ran away. He spent months out on the streets until one night he managed to break into the palace. He was caught and nearly killed but the peacock rulers intervened, knowing him from months earlier. Feeling guilty, they gave him shelter. Years later they passed away, leading to Master Thundering Rhino becoming his mentor; Ox and Croc his friends and classamtes.

Personality: Honor bound, willing to help others, easily enraged.

Major Changes: He is the brother to Wolf Boss (who is NOT named Dende), who originally didn't have a brother. He was the one who killed Po's mother, Shen really did it. There was no third

Skills: Moderate kung fu skills (Knew makeshift version at young age due to stories of the Furious Five, his idols. Actually taught to him by Master Rhino.), parkour skills (Taught to him by himself, due to being out on the streets, perfected by Master Rhino.).

8/22/2011 #17
Persephone999

At Akatsuki,

That would be a quirk.

What nationality is she, may I ask? Since you say the nickname K-chan.

I think there's maybe a little too much bad luck in her background. Is the car crash going to be relevant to the plot or is it just going to be an explanation for the scar?

I like the fact that she's self-depricating with the "antisocial moth thing".

If she's replacing a canon character and is going to be in a romance with another canon character, then you may want to be careful. Make sure it's a well paced process(there are a lot of stories where the love interest falls into the OCs arms within 2 chapters- don't do that) and make sure they bond and that it's clear why they love each other. Give them things in common. If she's violent, then that may put people off, so it might be interesting to have her lash out from time to time and have to atone for it to earn her happy ending.

10/14/2011 #18
Marisol5555555

Ugh! Mary Sue Alert! I think the next Chapter should be Mary Sue gets eaton by Dino! I think the reviews are fake

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7574382/1/

12/1/2011 #19
Sextuple Covalent Mo2 Bond

This thread is not for linking Mary-sue infested stories.

Also, go introduce yourself~

12/2/2011 . Edited 12/2/2011 #20
Forum Moderators: Sextuple Covalent Mo2 Bond Ten ways to spoil dinner, Conqueror of the North Wind, Aspiring Mythmaker
Rules:
  • Forums are not to be used to post stories.
  • All forum posts must be suitable for teens.
  • The owner and moderators of this forum are solely responsible for the content posted within this area.
  • All forum abuse must be reported to the moderators.
Membership Length: 2+ years 1 year 6+ months 1 month 2+ weeks new member