The Mechanics of In Flight
One of my reviewers mentioned the idea of starting a forum for those who want to debate various points of my story without clogging up the review section too much. I decided to go ahead and give it a try.
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but, removing those limiters meant that the Sekirei would hurt their human partners, right? and it isn't only shirou that is an Ashikabi. Even then, Kuu-chan hasn't finished her "adjustments"

Wonder if Shirou could grill Seo, as takehito friend for info on the "adjusting" process, and if it's reversible. On the other hand, I'm not sure how happy some Sakirei would be about reversing their adjustments.

5/9/2011 #1,051

They are already equipped with all the abilites they would need to as you put it 'keep up'. Its rather a matter of most of them not being interested in fighting at all, as Shirou already noted in the story.

From the 108 Sekirei only a select few are battle maniacs like Musubi, or some bloodthirsty shrew like Karasuba. For the most they would probably simply settle down with their Ashikabi and found a family if given the chance, just having a lot of potential power doesn't equal being an experienced fighter.

5/9/2011 #1,052
Amoral Philosopher

Ya, that is pretty much what I was thinking. Having a sekirei's limiter removed wouldn't give them the power to automatically pwn any overpowered mage they come across, it would just allow them to keep up power wise. Mages would still have more experience with fighting and probably better strategy. By removing the limiters of his sekirei, Shirou would simply be a bit safer from the possibility of a small group of mages coming after him since his sekirei would now be able to put up at least some resemblence of a fight, where as before they would simply get brushed aside like an annoyance.

Edit: ninja'd by a few people

5/9/2011 . Edited 5/9/2011 #1,053

Does removing the limiter always equal an increase in physical strength? For all we know it would just increase the poweroutput or control over their special abilities.

5/9/2011 #1,054
Shadow Rave

I'd like to think it means placing the Sekirei under a permanent 'Norito' state.

And the more that get's revealed, the more I'm convinced the Sekirei can very well take care of themselves.

5/9/2011 #1,055
Shioran Toushin

if they had the info and treated it seriously + changed their tactics from the Game to the more common Nasuverse ones, the Sekirei have more than a chance.

as much as a powerful mage i suppose.

5/9/2011 #1,056

Probably. They would be on the range of powerful psychics, but nothing out of ordinary on the Nasuverse

5/9/2011 #1,057
Amoral Philosopher

I simply figured that since there are only 108 sekirei in total, they should have some kind of superiority over mages in raw power, which I don't think they have as they are currently. Just looking at the nasuverse it seems that the fewer number there are of a race or group, the stronger that race or group are on average. I am not saying that a sekirei should be sronger than any mage since there are anomalies among mages above the norm, just that your average sekirei should be more powerful than your average mage in raw power. Mages do have numerical superiority after-all. Sekirei also lack the experience that would give most mages the edge.

5/9/2011 #1,058

The overall situation for them wouldn't change and simply because you are level 50 and your opponent is level 20 doesn't render you immune to his attacks, its not a videogame.

And in the long run, what kind of psychological impact would that have on the Sekirei? Always being alert, always fearing some kind of sneak attack?

If you simply wish to live your life, have kids and be together with your loved ones this is a less then desirable situation, you can have all kind of superpowers but will it do you any good when they rather strike where it hurts most, your family?

Sure, they can probably match most mages in power but what kind of life would that be?

This isn't about fighting fair and people like the MA could care less about the notion of fighting someone 1:1.

5/9/2011 . Edited 5/9/2011 #1,059
Amoral Philosopher

Having the extra power may not solve all the sekireis' problems, but it sure as hell can't hurt. As I've said, it just makes sense to me for them to have a power increase in comparison to normal mages since there are so few of them. After-all, every other alien race in the nasuverse gets ridiculous powers. I don't see why the Sekirei shouldn't as well. It would actually make them feel more cannon to the nasuverse in my opinion.

5/9/2011 #1,060

I agree with the fact that they seem weak, but the point is that even if they were to have their limiters taken, it won't give them much. Sure, increased power is nice, but if you aren't capable of using a viable part of it even normally, what would it give you?

5/9/2011 #1,061

Though I have my doubts that every single Sekireis Power is combat oriented or even applicable in a combat fashion, having some incredible power doesn't always translate to being useful in a fight. It really doesn't help that they as a race of magical beings actively search human companionship, it just paints a bigger target on them and their offsprings.

And should they survive the Sekirei Plan, what next? They probably won't stick around the place with their respective Ashikabi, some may even leave the country all together. Most Ashikabi are also bonded to a singular Sekirei, the Harem situation Shirou is currently in is surely the exception.

What I am trying to say is, even with the option of a powerup, its in most cases not really desirable for the Sekirei if they just want to live in peace. Accepting that powerup just makes a Sekirei stand out even more as they do at the moment, in the case of family planning thats not really desirable.

When it really comes down to it, they are just normal people, with the usual dreams and hopes of any human. With the exception of the few nutcases they aren't exactly battle hardened killing machines.

5/9/2011 . Edited 5/9/2011 #1,062
Amoral Philosopher

It would give them more potential for them to grow by learning to use the power they are capable of. You can't grow stronger if the potential is simply not there, but as long as the potential IS there then you have room to grow into it.

@bitterbaum: I guess we will simply have to agree to disagree since I have already stated that I completely disagree with your viewpoint. They are already going to be targets no matter what they do due to the simple fact that they are aliens. Having the raw power they can eventually learn to use could only be a benefit to them.

5/9/2011 . Edited 5/9/2011 #1,063

That is true, but I still don't think they are using their whole potential. I mean, their use of tactics is nonexistent, and most of the time they have no experience. If one like that were to get a power-up, he would only have a higher chance to blow his own face off.

5/9/2011 #1,064

Wait. But isn't it stated that Sekirei are actually really powerful? At least compared to humans who, right now are the biggest threat to the Sekirei. They have super-human physical abilities and their "magical" abilities surpass what normal Magi are capable of. What they lack however is the experience and proficiency with those abilities. They are, to use tvtropes terms Unskilled but Strong in opposition to Magi who are Weak but Skilled (well, weaker than Sekirei anyway) In other words giving them more power is not necessary, what Is necessary is to train them, give them skills and experience. Like when Shirou taught Tsukiumi not to go Overkill with her Norito but use it with a head.

5/9/2011 #1,065

Think of Kusano during the botanical garden as a Sekirei withouth being "adjusted" after all, neither Shiina nor Kusano did finish their adjustments canonically, And all of Shirou Sekirei did end much stronger than the norm, that was most of the basis of "single numbers are stronger"

Even then, I'm not sure the Sekirei would be very enthusiasmic about this. After all, MBI has brainwashed them with the "Adjustments are a way to let you control your power and not turn your ashikabi into a Pancake" In that light, I'm pretty sure the Sekirei would be reluctant at best to consideer reverting their adjustments, if that was even possible. Wonder what MBI would do, if Shirou started doing something like that?

5/9/2011 #1,066

Pretty much that - if you have unused potential, simply adding to it without getting any training won't give you anything. And what most sekirei have is an almost-purely untrained potential.

5/9/2011 #1,067
Amoral Philosopher

Well, I guess that is my problem. I never really considered sekirei to be all that strong. Ya, of course they are more powerful than a normal human, but compared to a mage I felt they would get their butt kicked in a battle of raw power. Not to mention Sekirei are one trick ponies whereas mages normally have versatility. I mean if the general consensus is that they already have incredible raw power like other aliens in the nasuverse then fine, I just thought they were nowhere near that level and rather weak in comparison of simple raw power.

5/9/2011 #1,068

@Amoral Philosopher

Well during the fight with Hiiga's Sekirei Shirou made sure to point out how superhumanly powerful the Sekirei were. Of course they are no match for the Real Monstrosities of the Nasuverse but they could take on a magi, no problem. The problem starts when a group of experienced and skilled magi gang up on a Sekirei who have no idea how to react to that.

5/9/2011 #1,069
Shioran Toushin

- as an individuals they are very vulnerable, as a group the whole 108 of them has a chance to be left alone.

- most of the Aliens in Nasuverse are either TYPES or it's descendants (DAA) that's why they are stupidly powerful

-and the Sekirei are more powerful than a common human, not so much vs and enhanced one, IMO Mages count as enhanced humans, actually IIRC is not that the Sekirei has more raw power, but that they are stupidly efficient in it's use. (refer to the ambush fight and his comments on Tsukiumi's and Musubi's Norito)

also the fact that we have all of the history of our species inmersed deep in constant conflict and warfare without a significant period of peace, humans have the art of war deeply ingrained in their souls and genes.

5/9/2011 . Edited 5/9/2011 #1,070
Amoral Philosopher

I'm just trying to say that if a sekirei was sufficiently trained then they should be able to take on a handful of mages all at once or a couple of enforcers from the MA. They are aliens and by precedent in the nasuverse, all aliens on average are vastly superior to your average mage.

5/9/2011 #1,071

Its a bit of a stretch to say just because you are an alien you are automatically extremely powerful, by your logic humanity is by default the weakest of the weak?

And fighting multiple opponents should never be that easy, I highly doubt all Sekirei have that kind of spatial awareness to pull through against multiple enforcers, those are hardly mooks or red shirts.

5/9/2011 . Edited 5/9/2011 #1,072
Shioran Toushin

1v1 a fully trained and willing Sekirei can fight with all but the exceptional members of the Nasuverse and has the possibility of winning.

but the precedent of Aliens=Superior is flawed because all the Aliens that appeared on the Nasuverse are the Ultimate beings of their planet. TYPE= Ultimate being, Alien =/=TYPE

and if you have evidence of the contrary correct my flawed perception.

5/9/2011 #1,073

You also need to condeer that all Sekirei in Izumo house are well above the norm, "normal sekirei" Those are all Above average (or in case of Kuno, below average) IMHO, I think most Sekirei are like the hammer one that Tsukiumi destroyed in the forest.

5/9/2011 #1,074
Amoral Philosopher

In the nasuverse it sure seems like mages are the weakest of the weak on average, at least in concerns of raw power. Mages seem to draw their power from the versatility of their magecraft and their creativity. I don't know of any other race of beings weaker than them in raw power.

5/9/2011 #1,075
gabriel blessing

Another little tidibit to add to the 'using their power properly' debate. In canon Miya states that a Sekirei's abilities are related to their emotional states. Like when Tsukiumi and Musubi get jealous over Minato and Homura's kiss and up their power, the water user with her orochi thingamabobie and Musubi with rediscovering her bear fist.

That kind of indicates that most Sekirei don't have a good hold over their abilities even when limited.

Also, I'm coming down on the 'Sekirei being damn powerful but just not knowing how to use it' side of the debate. Takehito claims that the original five were stronger than a winged Sekirei would be, during the kamakura or whatever it was called island debacle. At the time the five of them were able to hold off an army invasion. Later on the few times Kazehana fights she almost always insta-kills crests in just a few moves, and claims she's so good because she's had various experiences.

It's also an argument to justify why Karasuba is considered one of the most dangerous Sekirei, despite the fact that she's just a weapon user and can't throw about elemental death and stuff. The Black Sekirei was the only one to stay behind in the Disciplinary Squad and continue fighting against entire armies and doing MBI's dirty work. Not to mention she's probably has the most experience fighting other Sekirei, a legacy of her rivalry with Yume. Add in that she's one of the few Sekirei that actually LIKES to fight, and you have the potential for a pretty damn powerful fighter.

Hell, since she can match elemental powers and stuff with only a sword Karasuba might be considered the 'badass normal' of the Sekirei Plan, the one who got to being so good purely through skill and practice.

5/9/2011 #1,076
Amoral Philosopher

Ok, that is more than fine with me. I was just trying to make sure that Sekirei did have sufficient raw power that they can grow into with training and experience so that they can sufficiently defend themselves from mages should the need arise. I'm merely trying to make sure that there is a balance where one side doesn't completely overshadow the other. Mages have numerical superiority while sekirei have raw power.

5/9/2011 #1,077

About the Numerical superiority thing. Aren't Mages kinda loners? I don't recall a lot of instances where several mages cooperated together?

5/9/2011 #1,078
Shioran Toushin

the problem was that most of us undesrtood that as Sekirei=autowin, not what i think you tried to imply, wich was as i understood a trained and willing Sekirei has an equal chance of winning and surviving as any member of the Nasuverse.

5/9/2011 #1,079
Amoral Philosopher

Sekirei are mostly loners themselves. What I mean by numerical superiority is that there are vastly more mages in the world than the measly 108 sekirei. Also, as for mages being loners, I was more referring to the militant arm of the MA.

5/9/2011 #1,080
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