The Mechanics of In Flight
One of my reviewers mentioned the idea of starting a forum for those who want to debate various points of my story without clogging up the review section too much. I decided to go ahead and give it a try.
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Shadow Rave

Since it may have an impact on Gabriel Blessing's story, I've decided to post this here.

According to Sekirei CH. 112 , Once all eight Jinki are collected, an Ashikabi can Activate/Deactivate(Terminate?) any and all Sekirei AT WILL.

3/25/2011 . Edited 3/25/2011 #1
Kuranzyan Blightwalker

Holy fucker. That's not good. I'm guessing that they need to insert them into some sort of machinery INSIDE the Sekirei Space Vessel that allows the possessor of all eight 'treasures' to do such a thing?

3/25/2011 #2
Kumoatsu

No actually supposedly you take the little orbs inside of them and have it absorbed into one of your sekirei. So yeah broken.

3/25/2011 #3
Lask

Making the one who does it the 'God' of the Sekirei... If it actually works as advertised. It usually doesn't.

3/25/2011 #4
SilverBack354

you think Shirou and Trace copies of them

3/25/2011 #5
gabriel blessing

I've read the latest chapter, trying to decide if it would affect my works direction. So far I've seen nothing that I can't work in appropriately with my current plans, but if something does come up i'll be sure to mark an official 'AU' in my author's notes to let people know I'm going to be deviating a bit.

In regards to Shirou tracing it, I think it's more likely that he'll have a momentary flashback to when he first laid eyes on the sword of rupture. A little to alien for his human senses to comprehend. Might actually be fun to write the scene for.

3/25/2011 #6
Eveon

hmm... well tracing Jinki... might serve as a deus ex machina kinda thing somewhere... after all, Shirou couldn't trace the gem sword... the sword being a fragment of true magic but Archer's arm could.. it's a difference in skill and experience... he couldn't trace Ea but then again he wasn't holding it and he wasn't given much time or chance to analyze and trace it... He did end up tracing Avalon despite it being made by faeries. Reproducing the process by which it was made is probably difficult... in a way that would require Shirou to be a little out of his mind... either high or near broken.. enough so such that he can see little faeries playing tag or something. But I think the main difficulty he'd have with Jinki is that they're not really weapons... probably closer to ritualistic implements made with alien technology and possibly magic... who knows how much prana that would take. If you can't do something with skill... just throw in more prana, if you throw a whole grails worth, almost anything is possible.

3/25/2011 #7
Shadow Rave

Well... even if he couldn't trace a jinki as is, he may be able to substitute materials, similar to what Archer did with Excalibur.

Of course, there's always the question of why would Shirou ever trace such a thing.

3/25/2011 #8
Lask

It's not just otherworldly, it's actually not_of_this_earth, just like Ea. Hopes and dreams are ephermial, but they aren't alien to this earth. Ea was, and I think the Jinki will also be.

3/25/2011 #9
hanashinobi

besides the reason he can trace avalon may have to do with the deap personal connection of having it inside him for most of his life.

3/25/2011 #10
Eveon

We're not talking about the mystic eyes of death perception here... it's not a matter of whether or not it's from this world... it's a matter of whether or not Shirou with his distortion and reality marble can understand it. Seeing as MBI reverse engineered Sekirei technology even though it's not of this world, it wouldn't be wrong to hypothesize that Shirou can with effort understand the Jinki... even if it's at the level of true magic. Even the Aristotles can potentially understand and are affected by human concepts (e.g. magic), which is why many of them were destroyed despite not having a Gaia concept of death. The reverse should also be true, human should be able to understand alien concepts and be affected by them even if those concepts are foreign.

3/25/2011 #11
Lask

Actually, it is all about that. Shirou CAN'T understand Ea, because Ea was made from something not of this world, and Unlimited Blade Works only contain's thing from this world. Seeing it caused Shirou to run a *ERROR: CAN NOT COMPUTE*. His power is deviant towards the earth, but still born of it.

3/25/2011 #12
Rebask

So Shirou can comprehend the most advanced magical weapons created on earth, but a wrench from another planet would be beyond him? Interesting.

3/25/2011 #13
Kuranzyan Blightwalker

Now, a wrench would probably be fine, but some things that are out there are just beyond human understanding.

Think of it this way: In his book 'It' Stephen King has an lovecraftian horror antagonist, which is described as being of such an incomprehensible nature that humans naturally imagine it as something they can understand, and even in that particular instance it can still drive them utterly mad.

3/26/2011 #14
YamiheKazeto

That's probably the closest explanation.

Basically speaking, to create anything, Shirou has to go through all the steps, and recreating base materials or process of creation of something that was created from materials he doesn't know exist, and by using a process he isn't able to imagine, is rather difficult for him.

There was one situation when he had to skip one point and still create a complete product (he couldn't imagine how gem sword could have been created), and even though he had EMIYA's arm to help, he nearly broke when recreating it.

3/26/2011 #15
whodidthewhatnow

He need to see it with his own eyes in order to work, but wasn't he breaking the fact that he already was dying and tracing only made that faster?

3/26/2011 #16
YamiheKazeto

Not exactly - it's pretty obvious that he was living on borrowed time and would die after some time, but at the beginning that would only be physical, since his body simply wouldn't be able to keep EMIYA's arm under control. When he started using EMIYA's skills, his mind started breaking alongside his body. That did result in him dying sooner, true, but normally his mind would be more usable.

3/26/2011 #17
whodidthewhatnow

That's not it. I am talking about he being unable to trace the jewel sword. He could do that with expericence even if he wasnt dying of swordification, i.e, parts of his brain being pressed with tiny bit swords (have to love the fact you dont need an actual brain to retain your sense of self in the nasuverse, at least for heavens feel purposes). Tracing requires seeing with our own eyes, even if it is through a dream.

3/26/2011 #18
hanashinobi

I thought the shirou could not trace the jewel sword originally was because it was a consceptual weapon and he needs a completed work to actually trace, I believe I read this in the wiki under the shirou emiya article in the tracing segment.

3/26/2011 #19
Soup Fish

So this raises the question: If Shirou went questing with Roland and saw the Dark Tower and the field of Can-Ka No Re would his head explode?

3/26/2011 #20
Eveon

Well, I still think Shirou can potentially trace the sword of Rupture should he encounter it even if he couldn't during his confrontation with Gilgamesh. After all, it's not as if Avalon is made from materials found on the mortal plane.

3/26/2011 #21
YamiheKazeto

It's still impossible, I'm afraid.

He could trace Avalon because it was a part of his body, and he was capable of tracing the gem sword (with the help of EMIYA's arm) by chance, even though its creation process wasn't that different from the earthly one. But since process behind Ea's creation was completely impossible for him to understand (he had a blue screen of death - even when looking at the gem sword he didn't get it), he won't be able to create anything even remotely similar to it, unless he desired to make something that just looks like Ea for the sake of having a fancy-looking sword on a wall. And seeing as he would have to skip two most important steps of projection, it wouldn't be long before his "Ea" disappears.

3/26/2011 #22
Eveon

That's exactly it. You said it yourself, Avalon had been part of his body but Avalon is in and of itself an NP of EX rank, which by definition exceeds human understanding. Shirou can skip all the steps when projecting it. I'm not saying Shirou could project Ea, it's just that he can potentially project Ea if he gets a hold of it... or maybe takes it into his body or reality marble. The same applies for the Jinki assuming they are weapons of some kind. But more importantly, in the case of the Jinki, if they aren't weapons, he won't be able to record them in UBW.

3/26/2011 #23
Kumoatsu

The jinki are a weapon in the way that nuclear reactors can be a weapon. In specific circumstances they are capable of changing the entire landscape. The sword part though makes sense if after thinking about it for a bit. Its not going to come up though.

3/28/2011 #24
writer.M.D

Wow some deep thinking, this is distracting, I cant even concentrate anymore I spend at least a hour a-day thinking all of this throe, someone called me distorted today and I practically cried on the spot...

3/30/2011 #25
Kuranzyan Blightwalker

If you think that that's bad, browse a couple releases of Sekirei manga backwards and take a really good look at Yukari's face while she's having a semi-mental breakdown/epiphany moment of Crowning Impending Amusement for All.

She's awesome. Period.

3/30/2011 #26
Bigreader in The Omniverse

OK guys, basically this stuff seems to be technology. While they aren't weapons he could copy them, but it would take longer and more effort and more energy. If the MBI guys can copy it using mundane technology with other things then it is potentially possible to copy the jinki, especially if he could access the Sekirei ship computer and learn how they were made. Also we don't know much about that sword and while teenage highschooler couldn't copy it, well he was ignorant. But I've heard all kinds of things about that sword and how it was made from a weird star. With help and maybe a degree quantum physics and more knowledge he might increase his understanding might increase enough to copy it. Remember that teenager knew very little about magic and nowthing of science.

4/1/2011 #27
Kuranzyan Blightwalker

Mythology generally has no basis in science. It's metanatural, it completely disregards the rules of the world in a way similiar to True Magic disregards the rules of magecraft.

It is this fact that proves why most modern religions are generally incompatible with the cold hard reality of science and physics.

As in, "On the first day, God said, 'Let there be light.' And there was Light."

On that note, no matter how hard Shirou tries to ground greater quantum physics and astronomy into his brain, he'll never be able to replicate the process that created Ea. It's impossible for him. In a sense it would be creating the atomic bomb from scratch, but without 'Word of God' knowledge on how to split the atom itself.

4/2/2011 . Edited 4/2/2011 #28
Eveon

Eh? Another one? He's just replicating the process in his head, it's not as if he actually needs to power to split an atom... and what the heck does Ea have to do with God or splitting atoms? In the Naruverse, 'God' is pretty much the origin or the root or whatever you call it. That's not Ea's power. You made a leap of logic right there. Just because Ea is beyond Shirou's current understanding doesn't mean it's beyond the limits of his ability. By the same logic, Avalon should be forever beyond his capacity because he can't understand faeries, which are otherworldly and completely beyond Emiya Shirou's puny understanding.

4/2/2011 #29
Kuranzyan Blightwalker

By all accounts, Shirou shouldn't even be able to replicate Avalon. If I had to guess, he doesn't, and instead he just materializes the real thing, which is so closely intertwined with his own soul that it makes it the only possibility, as well as that he barely succeeds in pulling it off at all. Kiritsugu was kind of messing around at that point, if I have to go by canon sources.

I wasn't referring to God as the entity as it is incorporated into Nasuverse, Eveon. Neither was my statement regarding the atom splitting. Even if Shirou understands the process of what happens when an atom is split, doesn't mean he can reproduce it... and the same thing goes for Ea.

4/2/2011 . Edited 4/2/2011 #30
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