The Mechanics of In Flight
One of my reviewers mentioned the idea of starting a forum for those who want to debate various points of my story without clogging up the review section too much. I decided to go ahead and give it a try.
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Deuxfleur

Considering Shirous whole 'I am the bone of my sword' angle, wouldn't the next logical step for him be to actually create/reshape UBW into a 'original' sword/blade based on the accumulated knowledge stored inside his reality marble?

Would be kinda funny if UBW itself is some kind of proto Slash Emperor.

5/17/2011 . Edited 5/17/2011 #301
Sucal

Technically there are two potential logical steps. Making his own weapon, with or without UBW. Or unlocking the first magic.

EDIT: Also, with the whole learning thing. You have to remember that despite being self taught, Shirou managed to partially create his own Reality marble. Dissonance or not, (not even sure if that stuff is canon) being able to actually use it or not, such a thing is still a massive example of what he can do. If he had a proper teacher, I'm sure he could still learn one or two small tricks in fourteen days. They wouldn't be completely game breaking or changing, but still enough to cause shifts in the way he fights. Especially when he's combining/fighting under different circumstances.

5/17/2011 . Edited 5/17/2011 #302
blackmamuth

So, what are the chances that Cupido's bow and arrows are in UBW?

5/17/2011 #303
Sucal

UBW Zero. If he exists in the Nasuverse then there is a small chance Gilgamesh might have them.

5/17/2011 #304
Dr. Masaki

Yea I'm gonna have to jump on the bandwagon here. UBW bladespam does gets old after awhile. Shirou needs to develop his own skills and powers, he shouldn't have to rely on Archers hand me down skills in every story. It would be nice to start seeing more stories about Shirou Emiya walking his own path and not becoming yet another Archer-lite for once.

I suppose thats one of the things I like about In Flight. Shirou isn't just a one trick pony anymore he's actually branching out into other forms of magecraft with his study of Runemagic and bounded fields and enchanting etc.

5/17/2011 #305
Mu-Sensei

I agree, swordspam get old after a while, and will be funny having Shirou trying to make a weapon based on choice characteristics of his many noble phantasms. Specially if is during a story where he fail a lot while trying to do it.

5/17/2011 #306
Shioran Toushin

like it happens in the first season of Ben 10?

5/17/2011 #307
Deuxfleur

A shift in the way his reality marble is manifisted could be one way.

In IF he suddenly is confronted with having living relatives and the addition of his Sekirei, wouldn't be too farfetched that this would trigger a change in ideals like in HF.

Instead of a sword he becomes a shield in a sense, putting more emphasis in protecting his loved ones.

5/17/2011 . Edited 5/17/2011 #308
alguLoD

That's not how Origins work.

5/17/2011 #309
Deuxfleur

I am not speaking about his origin, rather his ideal of becoming a hero.

Throwing it away in favor of his loved ones, singleminded devotion to protect his family.

Wouldn't this reflect on his inner self, his reality marble?

5/17/2011 . Edited 5/17/2011 #310
Shioran Toushin

Not so much because he already passes his 'trial by fire' in the incarnation of Archer and Gil, if he knew about them before those events took place then he would have changes to be a Sword that protects his family instead a Sword that protects all.

5/17/2011 #311
Deuxfleur

And what in the case of one of his sekirei dying? Or his newly rediscovered family?

Would that be enough to shift his worldview once again?

5/17/2011 #312
Techlology

Considering that he's only known them for a couple of months, not very likely.

5/17/2011 #313
Shioran Toushin

Not so drastically that he forsakes his 'i'm gonna save everyone', that just justify it and make him even more determined to prevent it from happening again, or to anyone else.

5/17/2011 #314
whodidthewhatnow

I must remember you that in HF he only betrayed his ideals because it was pretty much "Sakura vs The World", and when he killed Saber Alter he thought he was betraying her because he killed her without (much, there was a choice after all) hesitation.

5/17/2011 #315
Calpeto9

What if instead of just recreating the entire noble phantasms, Shirou just traced it's abilities on his skin or whereever.

For example, instead of tracing that one ice weapon that Gil had he simply traced it's effect so he could have Pseudo control over ice without having the entire weapon that he have to wield. Or he could project NP abilities onto modern objects like putting the ability of Gae-bolg onto a sandwich and watch it embed itself into someone's heart.

5/17/2011 #316
whodidthewhatnow

Fear the killer sandwich!

I'm sure Shirou is can at best use UBW to sword spam because he don't have too much imagination. There are lots of things he could do with his weapons or ways to combine them, even if it involved duct tape.

5/17/2011 #317
Amoral Philosopher

Duct tape should be a noble phantasm in of itself

5/17/2011 #318
Shioran Toushin

because that is the use he saw in both Archer(and his harmonization or cross-corruption) and Gilgamesh, but UBW has plenty of uses, from blades pouring from the body a la Spyke or Wolverine, to mix and alter the effects of the NP (Caladbolg into Caladbolg II) to trace the NP under his skin to give him an ace in ability, to project the swords to block strikes, basically it slices, dices, makes soup, repairs your shed and does many many more things, call now to 01-800-MY-BODY-IS-SWORDS to recieve an extra packet of GAR

5/17/2011 #319
blackmamuth

technically, if you can trace, you can trace anything that exist in earth, you can trace very dangerous things... Napalm, for example? Perhaps even chunks of plutonium? If tracing in two steps, and shoting it using a bow, in order to create a critical mass...

So, how prana consuming would be for shirou, to trace some kind of hollowed glass sword, filled with napalm and some kind of igniting agent? and then rain Napalm swords? Would that actually work? Of course, being a hollow sheel filled with napalm, may not be enough of a sword in order to get the UBW discount...

There is also the possibility of Metallurgy. Shirou Origin is Sword. If Someone can forg a new NP in the Nasuverse, a sword one, He qualifies. After all, Archer did make cadalbolg II. (And Since that isn't actually a copy, instead a modification, maybe the world doesen't reject that?)

Also, a question, When shirou deploys UBW, what does, and what does not get overriten by the reality marble? Let's say that shirou was fighting a heroic spirit and it's master, and he deploys UBW, overwriting the servant from reality temporarily, leaving only the master to deal at his leisure. Would that work?

5/17/2011 . Edited 5/17/2011 #320
Shioran Toushin

actually it wouldn't cost too much prana, but the real trouble here lays in his ability and capacity to comprenhend and perfectly visualize those compunds, that and he is a 'savant idiot' and not a very imaginative one, but i don't think that he can create an NP(the mechanics are confusing, does a sufficient powerfull weapon count or is the mistery cristalized, or the legend atributed what makes something an NP?) but a conceptual weapon is more probable if hw doesn't activathe the UBW+Alteration cheat code.

5/17/2011 #321
whodidthewhatnow

@blackmamuth It overwrites the perception of Gaia reality, but it can't influence living beings (at least human/human-like) directly otherwise when Shirou deployed his RM Gilgamesh would be outside it.

'Tracing' in itself is quite versatile, and I could make an educated guess that was the real strength of Gradation Air (except on the ancient times things weren't that complex), creating 'something out of nothing'. All it takes is for Shirou to be acquainted with what he wants to trace, but he can only have an in deep understanding of 'swords' that somehow pass along to 'bladed weapons' and 'close quarters combat equipment'.

Unless Shirou starts obsessing about guns, he will never trace one.

5/17/2011 #322
blackmamuth

who said anything about guns? a weapons grade Plutonium Arrow, for example? shouldn't that be well in his possibilities to trace? Show a few of them together until critical mass is reached... Boom? Possible?

(Problem would be te thing would be radioactive...?) As I understood, it would eventually deacy, so the chances of residual radiaton in the area may be mitigated...

5/17/2011 #323
whodidthewhatnow

Plutonium Arrow would act like a poison, but it takes time to act.

In order to blow shit up he only needs to break Caliburn or something that can go up to A++.

5/17/2011 #324
blackmamuth

I was thinking on the "gun assembly" type of nuclear bombs. He shoud be theoretically capable of tracing two subcriticals lumps of weapons grade Uranium/plutonium/radioactive material of choice, Shoot the first Arrow into the second, and Prestoo, Boom. Probably more efficient that Broken phantasms in terms of prana. Downsides, well, those arrows are Radioactive, and he is Japanese... I don't think he'd consideer the concept at all, even if the radioactivity goes away, since did the world eat his tracings eventually?

5/17/2011 #325
Soup Fish

As to the question of weather Shirou could forge a NP or not, the answer is no. Objects have to become legendary in order to become NP's.

5/17/2011 #326
whodidthewhatnow

How the hell he would have access to a tactical nuke? Because anything bigger and he won't be able to assemble, and without a rocket the best he could do is to blow it up remotely, which is very difficult.

The upside would be that some after residue of the nuke (traces amounts of radioactive material from the core) would dissipate after the projection faded, but the irradiated objects/living tissue would still retain it's damage. Probably.

5/17/2011 #327
blackmamuth

So, pray tell, what is Cadalbolg II? It isn't forged, but Archer did create his own variation of a NP. So, It's not out of the realm of possibility for him to create his own variation. Archer did it with Cadalbolg II. Hell, Didn't Shirou in the Story toying with doing so a few chapters back? I agree that Forging and tracing are completely different animals, but due to his Origin, he does have the potential of being a superb swordsmith, right?

Who said anything about tracing a tactical nuke? He only needs a mass big enough of weapons grade material, (critical mass), and it goes Boom. Simplest way I see is to deliver it is using two Arrows, One big one mass, one small mass, and shoot those with his bow. when they touch each other...

There is also the possibility of "breaking" a plutonium Arrow. Wonder if that would explode or not.

Hardes hurdle I guess would be for him to actually see a Nuclear warhead, and coming close enough to analize it. I doubt he would actually try to sneak into a base. Wonder if MBI has some in storage. After all, they have Laser satellites in Orbit, so some nuclear boms aren't out of the realm of possibility.

5/17/2011 . Edited 5/17/2011 #328
Soup Fish

Cadalbog II is a variation of Cadalbog I. Shirou did not forge it, he traced it and modified the history.

5/17/2011 #329
blackmamuth

cadalbolg II is a different noble phantasm. it's a modified, So, one can alter NP. Seing that, Archer did CREATE a NP. even if it was based in another NP. So It's possible to "create" a new N

5/17/2011 . Edited 5/17/2011 #330
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