The Mechanics of In Flight
One of my reviewers mentioned the idea of starting a forum for those who want to debate various points of my story without clogging up the review section too much. I decided to go ahead and give it a try.
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kittybear

@throwaawy

Her physical stats are probably the same, she did get dizzy after sword spamming. Maybe it's because that Illya has Angra Mainyu worms inside her.

10/25/2011 #1,351
throwaawy

wasn't that illya blind in one eye and crippled in one leg? or did archerko taking over fix that?

also on timeline issues, would you say (for archerko herself) that SW2 takes place before SW1?

10/25/2011 #1,352
kittybear

Its probably the funky nasu-verse rule at work that the "soul overwrites the body".

I think SW1 occurs before SW2 because according to Illya-copy a certain person(Illya from the HGW) endured being an anchor to a servant(Berserker). It's implied that Shirou and Illya are both dead by SW2.

10/25/2011 #1,353
throwaawy

well, straight timeline wise, it's clear sw1 goes into sw2. what i'm wondering if Archerko from 1, is an eirei who met her end during the events of sw2.

my thinking:

canon!fate---- heaven's feel route *end*

.................................|---------- alt!heaven's feel (birth of the Counter-Counter Guardian)--------------------Sword Dancers 2

..............................................................................................................................................................................|

alt!fate---------alt!hollow ataraxia (Sword Dancers 1)-------------------------------------------------------------------------| ('dies' and is resummoned here)

10/25/2011 . Edited 10/25/2011 #1,354
Shioran Toushin

@ AK and magic resistance:

actually anti magic amulets nullify external influences, much like the anti nmagic spear from 4th HGW's lancer or a lesser version of Saber MR

A power that anyone with circuits will have. Basically, circulating Prana within one's circuits to get rid of any "impurities".

The power to resist spells that control the target's behavior such as sleep, restraint, and enforcement. An ability originating from the natural rejection of Prana outside of one's own circuits by one's circuits. Thus, as its likely for the spell to be disrupted before its finished, it is difficult to even affect a lesser magi. Those with circuits but are not even magi can also reject spells unconsciously.

Protection against magical effects. Differently from the Resistance effect that merely rejects prana, this ability cancels the spells altogether. Important to note that the term "verse" seen below refers to a set of three lines. Thus, a chant of two verses is equivalent to a Six-Line incantation.

C: Cancel spells with a chant below two verses. Cannot defend against Magecraft on the level of High-Thaumaturgyand Greater Rituals. (Because she herself does not have any Magic Resistance, Nero boasts a low level that is unbecoming of the Saber Class)

D: CancelSingle-Actionspells. Magic Resistance of the same degree of an amulet that rejects magical energy.

E: Cannot cancel spells, but magic damage is reduced somewhat. (Lancelot's originates from a magical ring, however its powers received a rank-down due to Mad Enhancement)

E rank would do shit against AK but D rank would nullify it

10/25/2011 #1,355
Arukoir
@Thorwald Dornbusch The sword is called Laevateinn.
10/27/2011 #1,356
Arukoir

@Aarik Wrath

Well, it's more that science follows from logic and as such, logic is an integral part of science. Science is an extension of logic so it isn't that one is using the other.

(Yes, I know that I'm nitpicking on semantics.)

10/27/2011 #1,357
Bloody Hero

Quick question about 4th HGW Lancer, You know how he has two spears one which cause the opponents injuries not to heal and the other which cuts through magic?

I was wondering would it work on the traced NP produced by Archer and Shirou? I honestly don't know since the projections are so good that they retain the abilities of the NP except a rank down. I'd really like your guys opinion on the subject.

10/27/2011 #1,358
kittybear

Everything is perfect except the rank.

10/27/2011 #1,359
Shioran Toushin

thats right, say, a Caliburn has B-A with a + in its rank and normally it can kill Herk, but thraced Caliburn couldn't because of the rank being B-C but with saber activating the + modifier they beat Herakles.

10/27/2011 #1,360
shadowzerover5

Though Caliburn has to have a rank of at least B+ since traced Caliburn did kill Berserker and God Hand negates all attacks lower than B and since Tracing decreases the rank by one that means the original Caliburn might have been A+ or greater.

Taken from wiki

Gáe Dearg: Crimson Rose of Exorcism

is a long spear that renders magical enhancements and projections useless by severing all ties with prana, though it cannot cancel the effects of completed magecraft such as contracts exchanged in the past or curses in the way that Rule Breaker completely nullifies them. The spear will pierce directly through any projection made of prana, such as Saber's summoned armor, bounded fields, such as Invisible Air, will have small fissures created that slowly chip away at them with each strike, any weapon that is magically enhanced, such as those enhanced by Knight of Honor, will have its enhancements and ability boosts rendered useless when struck by the spear, and any item that acts as a prana source, such as Prelati's Spellbook, will have all connections severed to its recipients.

The nullification is not strong enough to cancel or break the source of the magecraft, only lasting while the tip of Gae Dearg is in contact with the object and allowing it to function as normal after the spear is lifted away. While it is not a weapon one can pride on its destructive power, it can be considered a threatening "anti-Noble Phantasm" and "Noble Phantasm killer" to those that find pride in the power of the armaments, forcing them to defend only by physical means

And taking that into account, Zero Lancer's weapons particularly Gae Dearg which is the Spear of Exorcism is Shirou's natural weakness. It is a Noble Phantasm killer that even robs original Noble Phantasms of their powers as long as the spear is in contact. In Shirou or Archer's case, he cannot block this spear at all because any of his Traced Phantasms will chipped and be worn away by it or pass through it completely as it did to Saber's armor.

10/28/2011 . Edited 10/28/2011 #1,361
solopy567

Remember though, only as long as the tip is in contact with magic will it disrupt it. Remember that when it cut through Saber's armor and disrupted Invisible Air, they came back when the tip was removed. To be able to counter Dearg, they would have to dodge and block the spear at the shaft.

10/28/2011 #1,362
Third Fang
Then there's also the fact that Archer is well... hes an ARCHER class. spam sword rain or sniping is what he originally was supposed to be doing in the first place. 4th hgw's lancer trumps him in close ranged battle, but I doubt he could handle so many weapons coming at him at once, or a hypersonic cadabolg... plus if EMIYA is as smart as we think he is, he'd use the trick that most people use with the bazooka in halo when using a broken cadabolg: Don't aim for the target, aim for the ground near the target so that they get caught in the blast.
10/28/2011 . Edited 10/28/2011 #1,363
shadowzerover5

Just saying that if Shirou or EMIYA fights him up close he'll be at a disadvantage. Also don't Lancer classes have Protection from Arrows as an inherit skill?

Not sure though.

10/28/2011 . Edited 10/28/2011 #1,364
solopy567

Nope, Protection from Arrows is Cu Chulainn's personal skill. Something that happened in his life and whatnot.

10/28/2011 #1,365
shadowzerover5

Ah I see but aren't also the natural enemies of Archers? Or was that Riders?

10/28/2011 #1,366
kittybear

@shadowzerover5

Wiki is lying again...

It only Negates Magecraft Protection. Shirou is projection will work fine.

.

Lancer(F/Z)

STR: B

END: C

AGI: A+

PRANA: D

LCK: E

NP: B

He also has Minds Eye(True) B. It's different from Archer's ,I'm paraphrasing, if I have 1% of succeeding it will greatly increase the possibility of success. Lancer's minds Eye is "Battle logic to create means of escape in a predicament".

10/28/2011 . Edited 10/28/2011 #1,367
Bloody Hero

@Kittybear

Well thanks for clarifying that then,

Now another quetions, who's True Minds Eye is better Archer EMIYA or Lancer from 4th HGW?

10/28/2011 #1,368
kittybear

@Bloody Hero

This is Lancer's Minds Eye: "Battle logic to create means of escape in a predicament". That wouldn't really do any good to you if you're fatally injured from a fight. His minds eye is only good for retreating :P.

I say Archer since his minds eye is combat oriented.

10/28/2011 #1,369
solopy567

Just a question kittybear....Where did you get that picture?

10/28/2011 #1,370
Bloody Hero

@Kittybear

I wouldn't say that for certain since it says in Fate Zero that the trick Lancer did against Saber (you know the entire hiding spear thing and fake misstep) was from using his Battle logic.

Honestly, I think 4th HGW Lancer's Mind True Eye specializes in defense maneuvers as in whats the best way to defend myself from this attack.

Archer's Mind True Eye seems to specialize in attack as in what moves can I use to create opening and kill my opponent.

Both are highly useful in their own ways, I kinda want to combine the two of them.

10/28/2011 #1,371
kittybear

Lancer's NP

@solopy567

It's part of F/Zero Volume 3.

10/28/2011 #1,372
shadowzerover5

Not quite kitty, I'm not sure where it happened but I read somewhere when Zero!Berserker and Zero!Lancer fought Gae Dearg was able to cancel Knight of Honor on the weapon he was holding but it only lasted whenever clashed but once the tip is away Knight of Honor returned and empowered the sword once more and Berserker kept fighting with a sword hilt.

Based on the description in the photo you provided it cancels the effects of Noble Phantasms on the wielder such as defense boost and ability boosts. Which coincides with why Gae Dearg super move in Fate UC can be used as a counter to super moves.

Come to think of why couldn't Type Moon given us all the Zero Servants in Unlimited Codes?

Anyway it seems that Gae Dearg can cancel "in effect" spells like projected armor and active defense but cannot cancel completed Magecraft like curses and contracts but if Gae Dearg strikes the moment before Tracing is complete then it means that it can only cancel it at that instant...and since Tracing is near instant that window of opportunity is very small indeed.

10/28/2011 #1,373
kittybear

Knight of Honor covers the entire weapon with Bersekers's prana. It's similar to Invisible Air because it covers the entire weapon.

"This was Berserker's prana — the prana muddled with bloodthrist and hatred, possessed only by the black knight. The iron pole was receiving it by permeation from his hands. "

"Lancer pointed at the black knight with the tip of the long spear in his right hand – Gáe Dearg, the Crimson Rose of Exorcism, and coldly declared war on the black knight. If Lancer's red spear repelled the prana of Berserker's Noble Phantasm, then the fake Noble Phantasms covered by Berserker's black prana would be nothing but bundles of iron"

10/28/2011 #1,374
shadowzerover5

Thanks for that and yeah it seems to cancel "In Effect" Magecraft like Invisible Air, Knight of Honor and that really, really small window when Shirou starts Tracing.

10/28/2011 #1,375
GVN.Chaos
Guys, just a small question: How come Saber got Invisible Air ?I mean, there is no legend related to Excaliburn being hidden, isn't it? Or the sword (somehow) automatically cover itself ?If it is that case, will a traced Excaliburn got Invisible Air too ?And can Archer/Shirou use that at will ?
10/28/2011 #1,376
shadowzerover5

Well according to word of rumor, Invisible Air is a magecraft thought to her by Merlin that despite her massive potential to learn magic when she was alive one of the few spells she can use.

10/28/2011 #1,377
Shioran Toushin

IIRC she got it to replace Avalon as a Sheath after she lost it

10/28/2011 #1,378
Soup Fish

So, question about Kieri, as to his super speed and strength, he has to use a command seal to achieve this or does he have other methods as well? When he was running with Illya that was because of a command seal right?

10/28/2011 #1,379
Shioran Toushin

nup, Kotomine Kirei and the magus are just that fast, and he wasn't even reinforcing.

10/28/2011 #1,380
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