The Mechanics of In Flight
One of my reviewers mentioned the idea of starting a forum for those who want to debate various points of my story without clogging up the review section too much. I decided to go ahead and give it a try.
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Shioran Toushin

it's just what it says on the tin, we already have a random chat thread and a recomendation thread (rarely used) but this one could be considered the other side of the coin, Stories that you absolutey loathe and do not recomend and some of the reason for it, or stories that are so bad or missed the point that if you take an MST3K aproach are hilarious. IMHO you can post them here from any fandom you like.

or tell me if im vioating the terms of the site ; and i'll consider this thread closed.

11/4/2011 . Edited by Mu-Sensei, 1/11 #1
solopy567

Anything and everything related to Naruto in anyway.

All crossovers, all fanfics, all everything about it just ruins everything else.

It's freaking everywhere, and stories like Fate/Stay Night are so above Naruto that Naruto doesn't even have the right to be crossed over with it.

11/5/2011 #2
maximorph1
could we not bring hate to this forum please...besides, a flame thread is already posted
11/5/2011 #3
deus-rasengan2

while I wouldn't say everything naruto related is bad, I have to agree, there are some fics and crossovers that just really get to me because Naruto's in it.

Fate/Stay Night crossovers are some of the hardest to accept because the ones I've read have Naruto on par with Servants. I just don't buy it.

11/5/2011 #4
GVN.Chaos
Please avoid bring up the big three (One Piece/Naruto/Bleach), we have enough inhuman fighter already =.=
11/5/2011 #5
Third Fang

(Pretends that previous posts didn't just put a giant target on every vital and painful spot on my body). Love/drama centric fics. If I even wanted to bother with pure teen angst with minimum action or plot I would have bothered reading Twilight.

11/5/2011 #6
Lycodrake

@Third Fang: Let's just let Alucard take care of all the ****-ups in Twilight. He might just say "burn them", but either way...

11/5/2011 #7
Silver Gaurd Saito

Okay I have to ask, why is it that everyone has so much hate for cross-overs with the "big three?" I mean I can't seem to get why people have problems with them. So what if characters from those series can fight on par with (and actually defeat) servants? If the story is written well enough, then such a thing should not matter, at all.

11/5/2011 #8
Lycodrake

@Silver Guard Saito: I don't have a problem with well-written crossovers like that, but I think what the others are trying to say about that sort of fight is that most of the characters from the "Big Three" could not fight on par with most of the Servants from any of the HGW, at least if the mechanics are balanced, and win *easily*.

Example: Naruto VS False-Assassin, Naruto landing a sneak-attack is highly unlikely, because of how skilled Assassin is.

11/5/2011 #9
lhklan The Unpronounceable

@Saito

... Are you kidding? Those character couldn't hold a candle to the Servants. Some might be defeated sure, but it would take a lot. Here's a list of Servant that the other could never beat

Berserker(Herackles): God Hand.

Gilgamesh: Gate of Babylon. and if that fails, EA.

Archer: Unlimited Blade Works. Eat your heart out, Uchiha

Saber: Excalibur. And Susanoo? Avalon trumps that anytime

Lancelot.: Anything he touch become an NP. So he could pick up a tree, turn it into a Broken Phantasm and throw. Watch the fireworks

Lancer: Gae Bold OHK anything that doens't have a high enough luck, doesn't back out in time, doesn't have a high enough magical defense that can overwhelm the spear's mana or an auto resurrection ability, you're screwed.

And another reason the Big 3 is hated is because the writer tend to overpower them and downplay the Nasuverse, when in reality character in Nasuverse can stomp those Big 3 to the ground.

11/5/2011 #10
Lycodrake

@lhklan: Agreed. Of course, pretty much anyone with a Sharingan or Rinnegan and Aizen are way too HAX to really count.

11/5/2011 #11
lhklan The Unpronounceable

@Lyco

And those three CAN be countered.

Aizen: Gae Bolg. That spear reverse causality, so no matter how good your illusion are, you CANNOT escape causality. If the world declares that you are dead, then you are dead. Simple

Rinngan: Berserker's God Hand. Shinra Tenshou and Banshin Tenou might kills a few of Berserker's lives, but after that, you're screwed

Sharingan: THis is gonna be long

+ Tsukyomi: UBW, natch

+ Susanoo and Amaterasu: Again, God Hand. Or Avalon

+ Kamui: Avalon.

And both Rinnegan and Sharingan user can be OHK by Gae Bolg. Seriously, that spear is OHK personnified

Also, Ea trumps each and any of those three.Period

11/5/2011 #12
Silver Gaurd Saito

@Ihklan

First off, now your just fanwanking, from I have seen in the orginal materials, several of the characters from the big three do have abilities that can overcome some of the skills, weapons and abilities of the servants therin.

Secondly, on the subject overpowering, I noctice that with the "more accepted" nasuverse x-overs, the writers always seems to tip the power-scale in favor of the nasuverse, thereby underplaying the characters form the adjoining series. Therefore, I am not really sure if I can accept as a valid reason to shy away from x-overs with the "big-three."

11/5/2011 . Edited 11/5/2011 #13
lhklan The Unpronounceable

@Saito

fanwanking? I did say that some Servants could be beat, not all of them. I only listed those that cannot be beat.

Also, the reason that those stories got more accepted because characters in the Nasuverse are powerful, so staying true to it doesn't really count as tip the scale. The many reason we got problem with the Big 3 xover is that those authors boost the power too much. Word of God that human generally cannot win againts Servant, only few of them do. Shirou because he can counter GIlgamesh, and another from Kagetsu Tohya because he's part oni. If Shirou tries to fight any other Servant, he lose. (Bad End where he tries to go against Saber Alter.Said Servant was holding back)

11/5/2011 #14
solopy567

Well, I noticed that the "more accepted" nasuverse crossovers actually make sense. For example, in In Flight, Shirou may be strong, be even in Sekirei there are characters that can defeat him, easily or not. Miya is one of them for example.

Writers for the big three are generally less than mature, write badly, and godify their favorite characters so much that they can beat anything.

Basically, the big three fanfic writers turn all of their characters into Mary Sues, and Mary Sues are always terrible characters.

The other thing is that THEY ARE FUCKING EVERYWHERE.

Naruto has more fanfics than all the other anime series combined, and is crossed over with almost anything. Just look at the Rosario + Vampire x-overs.

The majority is Naruto. Naruto Naruto Naruto Naruto Naruto Naruto Naruto Naruto Naruto. It's everywhere and I'm tired of it. The only big three I can tolerate is Bleach.

11/5/2011 . Edited 11/5/2011 #15
Lycodrake

@Silver Gaurd Saito: Never mind, lhklan and solopy said/worded it better than I could.

I can't stand the unjustifiably OP (overpowered, not One Piece) characters of the Big Three, but I still like a handful of characters from them.

11/5/2011 . Edited 11/5/2011 #16
deus-rasengan2

Jinchuriki Fate staynight (This is exactly how it's spelled out) being prime example of not exactly having your facts straight and OPing the hell out of a character that's not.

11/5/2011 . Edited 11/5/2011 #17
Silver Gaurd Saito

@Ihklan: Within the nasuverse, humans can't beat servants. But it is not just the nasuverse that we are talking about, now are we? I think that this is the main problem here. Redears do not seem to realize that characters powers work under a different set of rules than that of the nasuverse. All nasu x-overs should not automatically make it so that the other series in question should have to conform to those set of rules. That is being somewhat close-minded when it comes to fanfiction. And about the list of servants that you said cannot be beaten and why, that is most certainly fanwanking.

@solopy: So what? Just because Naruto has alot x-overs with other series does not mean you can make a good story out of a x-over with the nasuverse.

11/5/2011 . Edited 11/5/2011 #18
Lycodrake

@Silver Gaurd Saito: Actually, Nasuverse, at least IMHO, has the most reasonable system of fighting and magic, etc. Which is why it is generally favored over the "rules" of whatever it is crossed with. Can you honestly say that the Big Three have a decent "rule" system?

And solopy was just saying how tired he was of all the Naruto crossovers, if I understood him correctly, not that they shouldn't be done or that Nasuverse crossovers are always better.

11/5/2011 . Edited 11/5/2011 #19
lhklan The Unpronounceable

@Saito

Okay, now I think you're trolling.

What is an crossover? It's when you bring two universe together. So when you do, you have to respect both universe, their rule, their power scale. True, they work in different concept, but you have to tweak it a bit so that they can work. I have no problem personally with people beating Servants, but only when they works in group. Did you watch In Fight before coming here? GB make it works, combining both universe.

And as for the Servants, those are the official stat that I used, Pray tell which part is fanwanking?

11/5/2011 #20
Silver Gaurd Saito

@Lycodrake: And yet, those rules are broken by the canon cahracters within several times.

11/5/2011 #21
lhklan The Unpronounceable

@Silver Guard

Which one get broken?

11/5/2011 #22
Lycodrake

@Silver Gaurd Saito: Which series are you talking about when you say that? Because, like has been stated, Shirou can be beaten. Several times over. Just by people that are stronger than him, are more skilled, and can counter his UBW or Tracing well enough.

The same can be said for the Big Three's main characters, too. They can be defeated and curb-stomped, if those conditions are met.

Also, Plot Armor comes into play for almost all anime or manga.

11/5/2011 . Edited 11/5/2011 #23
Silver Gaurd Saito

@Ihklan: No I am not trolling. On the subject of those rules, the problem is that most nasuverse x-overs seem to always tweak the rules in favor of the nasuverse. And might I point out that within UBW alone there are 4 cases of the human characters beating servants one-on-one, circumstances be damned.

On the Stats: The part where you seem to ignore or underplay the "stats and abilities" of characters from the "big three."

11/5/2011 . Edited 11/5/2011 #24
solopy567

There is one thing we really should remember about the Big Three.

They are Shonen. In Shonen, nothing has to make sense as long as it is awesome. The hero can pull a new power out of his ass and nobody will ask why or how.

The Nasuverse is not Shonen. It includes a much more complex system of fighting, and most things makes sense.

Why Shirou could beat Gilgamesh.

Why Rho Aias blocked Gae Bolg.

Why Shiki is unable to see dots on Arcueid during the full moon.

You can't say that about Shonen. This is why the two genres are incompatible without being a good writer. The majority of fanfic writers are not, and that is why we are mad.

11/5/2011 #25
lhklan The Unpronounceable

@Silver Guard Saito

Tell me then, cause I don' t really remember when the 4 human beats Servant, not counting SHirou

And igoring stat and abilities? Tell me specificaly where I'm wrong. I'm a Naruto fan, I admit, but when it came to Nasuverse few can beat them.

11/5/2011 #26
Lycodrake

@Silver Gaurd Saito: Okay, give examples where Nasuverse x-overs are tweaked like that.

And might I point out that within UBW alone there are 4 cases of the human characters beating servants one-on-one, circumstances be damned.

"Circumstances be damned" doesn't help you to prove you aren't a troll.

We aren't ignoring their stats, we're saying that all stats, for every character, need to be kept in mind.

11/5/2011 #27
GVN.Chaos

Okay I have to ask, why is it that everyone has so much hate for cross-overs with the "big three?" I mean I can't seem to get why people have problems with them. So what if characters from those series can fight on par with (and actually defeat) servants? If the story is written well enough, then such a thing should not matter, at all.

Because their character (or at least, the main cast) sometime got a freaking level up WITHOUT any explanation in a VERY short amount of time.For example, Ichigo from Bleach can fight against Hollow(demon) without ANY training because his potential. He can beat Aizen with ONE attack that no-one know about it before hand. Almost everyone in One Piece can take a HUGE number of wounds and still ALIVE (lying on their blood, but still alive)

11/5/2011 #28
Silver Gaurd Saito

@solopy

Might I point out to you that the nasuverse has the same problems sometimes.

@Ihklan

Souchirou vs. Saber

Rin vs. Caster

Shirou vs. Archer

Shriou vs. Gil

11/5/2011 . Edited 11/5/2011 #29
Lycodrake

@Silver Gaurd Saito: Which "problems" are you referring to, though? Shirou's abilities are not an ***pull, they are given a very distinct, well-thought-out explanation, if you actually look.

11/5/2011 #30
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