Ok, just like to start by saying my first experience with Thor was seeing the film last week. With not knowing anything about it previously, I didn't have a clue what was going to happen, or any Norse mythology or comic book stories at all. Instead I just sat and watched, tried to guess the story and was definitely entertained!
Anyway, I couldn't help but notice in the film, a definite "tension" and "chemistry" between Loki and Sif. Anyway, this has since become a favourite ship of mine, so I was wondering what other people think.
I NOW know that Loki is set to be a villian in The Avengers, and most likely will stay that way, and that the Norse Myths and the comics have Thor/Sif pairings, but, I still like this ship! I also really like the idea that Sif (and her connection to Asgard and his adopted family) will eventually bring about Loki's forgiveness and redemption.
So, does anyone else like it and like fanfics about it? I personally think we need LOTS more Loki/Sif fanfics - preferably set around the time of the film!5/19/2011 . Edited 5/19/2011 #1
Interesting idea. Most people tend to take relationship information directly from Norse mythology, which may or may not (I don't know much about it, myself) support such pairings, which influences their writing. BUT if you go strictly by the information from the movie alone, then yes, I can totally see a Loki/Sif pairing. That would work for me, at least, since I'm a Thor/Jane supporter. XD5/19/2011 #2
To bad about that whole, "Loki is the bad guy and is ment to die in Ragnarok married to the every loyal Sigyn" thing. I don't know. All I can see is them not liking each other and I seem to be leaning more in the direction of Loki/Darcy. It's a funny pair up and that's why it oddly makes sense to me. Of course, this is besides the point that I'm a major Loki/Mayura fan in MDLR.
Actually if people want to take the relationships from mythology, while the relationship between Loki and Sigyn (his wife) is mentioned many times there is also the underlying question of Loki and Sif. In the comics I believe Sif's hair is black due to Loki cutting it off in a prank? A similar story is told in the Icelandic sagas, however there is the subtle implication that Loki would have had to have gotten very close to Sif to cut off her hair (if you catch my drift). This 'closeness' is addressed at one point though Sif denies it.5/21/2011 #4
Quote - To bad about that whole, "Loki is the bad guy and is ment to die in Ragnarok married to the every loyal Sigyn" thing.
I think this is where a problem between movieverse/comic verse and legend comes in. I guess as this is a board for the movie Thor, it's hard to criticise people for not knowing about other stories/myths and legends regarding the characters. I'm sure I'm not the only one who watched the film without having a clue about Norse Mythology or the comic books. I've learnt stuff since, as I mentioned in my first post, but my opinions are pretty much based on the film - which is my only proper experience of the story of Thor.
I do wonder how many of these myths/comic book ideas will come up in sequels though. Now I know about Sigyn, she does sound like an interesting character. Of course, having NEVER read any Norse Mythology OR Thor comics, I've no idea what she might be like, so in a way, she does seem like an OC in fanfic. I find it quite hard to relate to her when reading fanfic for the film, unless she's written very well. I guess if the author makes a point of what they're basing their story on - comicverse, movieverse, legends etc, then as long as the characters are IC for that media, it's okay. Ok, hope that makes sense!
I think until we find out how they develop the Thor and Loki stories in sequels, it is hard to know how much they will take from the legends/comics etc. I guess it's not like taking a book adaption or anything. Thor is merely based on the comics and the comics are merely based loosely on Norse Mythology. Ok, guess what I'm trying to say (very badly!) is that if it makes sense and is in character for the film, even if it's against Norse Mythology and the comic books, does it really matter?
Quote - "Actually if people want to take the relationships from mythology, while the relationship between Loki and Sigyn (his wife) is mentioned many times there is also the underlying question of Loki and Sif. In the comics I believe Sif's hair is black due to Loki cutting it off in a prank? A similar story is told in the Icelandic sagas, however there is the subtle implication that Loki would have had to have gotten very close to Sif to cut off her hair (if you catch my drift). This 'closeness' is addressed at one point though Sif denies it."
Ooooh, very interesting! I do wonder (though I doubt it) if they may explore these things more in future films. Still, adds weight to my favourite ship from the film, Loki and Sif! :-)5/21/2011 #5
Just been looking into the myths a bit and, whilst Sif is married to Thor, there are hints that she is having/has had an affair with Loki. Found this on wikipedi under "sif", which isn't the best source of evidence I know, but it is interesting.
In stanza 48 of the Poetic Edda poem Hárbarðsljóð, Hárbarðr (Odin, father of Thor, in disguise) meets Thor at an inlet of a gulf. The two engage in flyting, and Hárbarðr refuses to ferry Thor across the bay. Among numerous other insults, Hárbarðr claims that Sif has a lover at home. In response, Thor says that Hárbarðr is speaking carelessly "of what seems worst to me" and also lying.
In stanzas 53 and 54 of the poem Lokasenna, after pouring Loki a crystal cup of mead during his series of insults towards the gods, Sif states that there is nothing Loki can say only in regard to her. In response, Loki claims that Sif has had an affair with him:
Then Sif went forward and poured out mead for Loki into a crystal cup and said
Welcome now, Loki, and take the crystal cup
full of ancient mead,
you should admit, that of the children of the Æsir,
that I alone am blameless.
He took the horn and drank it down:
That indeed you would be, if you were so,
if you were shy and fierce towards men;
I alone know, as I think I do know,
your love beside Thor,
and that was the wicked Loki.
Sif does not respond, and the exchange turns to Beyla. Sif is additionally mentioned in two kennings found in poems collected in the Poetic Edda; Hymiskviða (where Thor is referred to as the "Husband of Sif" thrice), and Þrymskviða (where Thor is once referred to as "Husband of Sif").
So perhaps there IS more to Loki/Sif than just some awesome chemistry in the film. I hope the writers of the sequel look into this, there's no harm in keeping my fingers crossed!5/23/2011 #6
I don't see it. Sif clearly was disturbed by, and never trusted Loki in the movie, and you can't love someone you don't trust. Plus about he whole hair cutting thing, I thought he snuck into her room when she was asleep.5/25/2011 #7
I can totally see this happening! Does anybody remember that scene when Loki is giving orders to the Warriors 3, and Sif gives Loki this look when she's about to go. I don't know what it was, but that scene kind of sparked something in me. Haters gonna hate, but I totally agree with this shipping. Maybe one day the directors will make like a Loki Origins film, and they'll be some scenes with this shipping in the movie. Sif/Loki all the way :)6/2/2011 #8
quote - "Does anybody remember that scene when Loki is giving orders to the Warriors 3, and Sif gives Loki this look when she's about to go."
Yes, I love that look. There are lots of different ways you can interpret it, but I do think there's a lot more to it than Sif just being annoyed and challenging Loki. She's the only one brave enough to stand up to him, which to me shows she has a deeper connection to Loki than the others. Loki's reaction to her is interesting too.
I like how it's Sif who entreats Loki to speak to Odin about Thor, again, IMO, showing there's a level of familiarity between them that is just not there between Loki and the warriors 3. I definitely think they could have some history between them - either realised or just secretly wanted.
I know in comic verse Sif does not like Loki at all, but in what we've been given in the film, there's nothing to say either way, so we can interpret it how we want. In the myths of course, Loki accuses Sif of having an affair with him and she does not deny it! Something which I find very interesting. There's also the strong implication that Loki caught her hair because she slept with him and been unfaithful to Thor.
quote - "Maybe one day the directors will make like a Loki Origins film, and they'll be some scenes with this shipping in the movie."
As much as I would love this, I doubt it will happen. I think the film Thor is meant to be almost as much about Loki's origin/backstory as Thors, which makes sense really. I just hope they don't turn Loki into a characture evil black and white crazy villian in the other films. I want him to retain complexity and remain a somewhat sympathetic villian, who isn't really "evil". I'm hoping he does get redeemed in the end and there could be more hints between Sif and Loki, you never know.
Either way though, the films are definitely going to have to deviate from the comics somewhat. There's no way they can do all that the comics do in many decades in just a few films AND some of the comic stuff is so weird, I doubt it'll make a mainstream film.6/3/2011 #9
1. Loki will have sex with anything capable of having sex. He's a seducing, insecure man w***. He also has gobs of children including those he's given birth to while female.
2. Loki and Sif have something going on the Marvel Universe, but it ain't love. I don't know if they've slept together, but it wouldn't surprise me. Since the hair thing she's hated his guts, and more recently he decided to steal her body and prance around it while dumping her spirit into a dying old lady.6/3/2011 #10
quote - " 1. Loki will have sex with anything capable of having sex. He's a seducing, insecure man **. He also has gobs of children including those he's given birth to while female.
2. Loki and Sif have something going on the Marvel Universe, but it ain't love. I don't know if they've slept together, but it wouldn't surprise me. Since the hair thing she's hated his guts, and more recently he decided to steal her body and prance around it while dumping her spirit into a dying old lady."
Yeah, I heard about some of the weird stuff Loki gets up to in the comics and the myths. So far though, movieverse Loki doesn't really seem as if he would do all that crazy stuff. Though Loki went pretty crazy at the end of the film, I doubt they'll have him doing anything too weird and crazy in the films - they will want to make it mainstream and relatively family friendly!
It'll be really interesting to see where they do go with movieverse Loki and how it does differ to the myths and the comics.6/3/2011 #11
I want Loki/Sif! A love/hate relationship might be enjoyable to read. :)6/8/2011 #12
"Yeah, I heard about some of the weird stuff Loki gets up to in the comics and the myths. So far though, movieverse Loki doesn't really seem as if he would do all that crazy stuff. Though Loki went pretty crazy at the end of the film, I doubt they'll have him doing anything too weird and crazy in the films - they will want to make it mainstream and relatively family friendly!"
IF you look at the myths and then at the movie, Loki has already done some of these things. Sleipnir - Odin's horse, which he does ride in the movie - is Loki's offspring by a stallion (Svaldifari). He took the form of a mare to 'distract it' so that the gods wouldn't have to let a disguised frost giant have 'Freyja, the sun and the moon' as payment for his work.6/14/2011 #13
Yeah, I saw the reference with the horse, BUT we're not told how it came into being. I think they just included it as a nod for the myths and had no intention of deciding it was still Loki's "child". Considering Loki also doesn't show shapeshifting skills yet, IMO we're not supposed to think the horse IS Loki's "child". Of course, you can take it how you want, but I don't think it's inclusion is proof that Loki has already done some weird myth stuff.
The film's version of Loki does seem quite a bit different (so far) to the myths/comics Loki, so I think we can only really go off what the movie tells us. Of course, getting ideas from the myths and using them in your interpretations is great, BUT the only real canon for the film is the actual film itself, where so far (from what we've been told) Loki hasn't done any weird stuff and so far, is far from doing all the weird comic/myth stuff.
Plus, it IS a mainstream film and if they start putting in weird stuff from the myths/comics, they're going to have to be careful it doesn't turn the mainstream audience off. And FILM Loki is so far so brilliantly complex and 3d and not really "evil", IMO it's be a shame to ruin all that and turn him into crazy myth/comic Loki.
Still, we'll have to see what happens to Loki's character, but so far, I'm basing him off my interpretation of him in the film only - the ONLY canon for film.
And getting back to topic, in the film, Loki and Sif (IMO) are shown to actually be quite close, especially in the throne room scene, and Loki usually addresses Sif directly rather than "Sif and whe warriors 3". Also, she definitely seems as if she's mouring Loki herself when she talks to F*** at the end.
So I don't care what Loki/Sif are like in the comics or the myths (though I do like the idea that Sif does not deny having an affair with Loki in the myths), in the film they COULD have more between them, realised or not. It just comes down to the interpretation of them from ONLY the film!6/14/2011 #14
Loki x Sif would be an entertaining challenge nonetheless. The love/hate tension would be an awesome read.
The movie was done surprisingly well. Hooray to the casting and to Hiddleston for his superb Loki. ^_^
Loki as a character is delicious. All that angst, intelligence and burning passion. The madness is a recent thing, having discovered his 'natural state' and shaken to the core. It's a colossal rug that was pulled out from under him by none other than daddy dearest. *shakes head* I'm not sure if Thor himself knows what Loki is. (if it was implied, I didn't catch it) But Odin and F*** do and was discussed briefly during the OdinSleep scene.
From what I know of Norse lore, Loki's definitely written as a bad guy. I prefer to think of him as eternally gray - always floating back and forth between boundaries to suit his own desires. The fic potential is enormous! He's a shape-shifter so writers can explore...practically anything they want. I'm personally fascinated with gender-bending. LOL. (I, mean, come on, the guy got it on with a horse. ROFL.)
I'm not opposed to Loki romance...but it's gotta be believable, right? I highly doubt Loki's gonna just fall in love with someone at first sight or after a very brief period of time, especially a mortal. Am I wrong? Anyway, Loki's two wives in the lore must be quite a handful for him. The sly Trickster.
The Marvel version of Asgard is hilarious. Really messed up. It kinda had to be to accomodate an immortal Aesir god of thunder into Earth's Avengers.
Overall, I'm totally for Loki + Sif.6/16/2011 #15
The film's version of Loki does seem quite a bit different (so far) to the myths/comics Loki.
Not really. Loki isn't really evil in the comics. He's Chaotic Neutral. He's done some evil things, but mostly he just facilitates others in doing evil, and then screws them over.
And FILM Loki is so far so brilliantly complex and 3d and not really "evil", IMO it's be a shame to ruin all that and turn him into crazy myth/comic Loki.
Ah, you're not following the comics now. Comic Loki is just as deep as movie Loki starting way back JMS's run, and I'd say he's deeper than any of the current Marvel villains or antagonists. Basically, movie Loki is fledgling comic Loki.6/18/2011 #16
" Loki and Sif have something going on the Marvel Universe, but it ain't love. I don't know if they've slept together, but it wouldn't surprise me. Since the hair thing she's hated his guts, and more recently he decided to steal her body and prance around it while dumping her spirit into a dying old lady."
Loki was jealous of Sif's and Thor's relationship. She was their mutual friend and he tried to separate them by doing the hair cut trick. It backfired. But yeah... it's implausible. Currently, Loki's been reborn as a chaotic good 14 years old who totally LOVES his brother (and would do anything for him). He wouldn't even think in sleeping with his brother's lover. Thor's big brother instinct has become beyond the impossible, since he sees this is their second chance.
He'll hammer down anyone who dares to mess with his precious little brother. Younger Loki is adorable, too.
To be honest, in the movie, I saw more 'chemistry' between Fandral and Loki than Loki and Sif. He was the only one who seemed to speak favourably of Loki (and Loki saved his life).6/19/2011 . Edited 6/19/2011 #17
@Durga - Whilst I get that you didn't see chemistry in the film, it doesn't mean Loki/Sif are "non-canon" in the film.
I've never read the comics, but a lot of what happens in them (from what I've heard) hasn't happened in the film and may never happen. So as this is a board for the film, and the ony film canon is the film itself, I don't think we can take what happens in the comics as canon. It's interesting yes, and certainly would effect people's interpretations, but it's not FILM canon.
I guess I'm trying to say, I appreciate ideas and evidence from the comics, but if it's not from the film itself (which is only loosely based on the film), IMO it doesn't hold a lot of weight.
Of course, everyone's entitled to their own opinions and interpretations, and if you don't see any chemistry between Loki/Sif in the film, then that's fine. It doesn't mean that there wasn't chemistry there, or that people can't interpret what they see as chemistry, as there is no proof IN THE FILM that there is or isn't any Loki/Sif. We're simply not told either way in the film. A film which is only loosely based on the comics.6/19/2011 #18
I agree about the chemistry between Loki and Fandral. Fandral's seems like an easy going character. Should make an interesting exploration.
However, since I have no idea how the Marvel Universe handled their version of Norse Mythology, I can only speculate from the posts what the relationships between the characters are.
How much of the lore did Marvel port over and how much did they twist to suit the universe?6/19/2011 #19
You're right as well. This is a thread for the Thor film rather than whatever happened in the comic universe.
A clean slate for different fan base. ^_^6/19/2011 #20
@silverduck: I was replying to someone who asked about the comics.
Sif, in the movie, develops feelings for Thor in the end. If you read the script you know what I'm talking about. They'll probably explore them in the next movie as a love triangle (if Natalie Portman ever returns, she had plans for dropping from movies for a while to take care of her child :( ). I don't see a lot of sexual tension between Loki or Sif in the movie either. I see just tension. *shrug* I like the fics quite a bit, regardless. They are well-written.
I hope that they bring forth the beautiful Amora in the sequel, to be honest. As interest for either Loki or Thor, movie wise. The Enchantress has always been the most fascinating female character in Thorverse (along with Brunhilde) and the fan favorite of the comics readers in general. She's the most beautiful woman in the nine realms, a cunning magic-user and Loki has been drawn to her in the past. What better match for Loki than her? His wife is a very non character, unless this teenage girl "Leah" who appears now isn't a version of Hela, but hers.
Edit: Here a couple of good pages of comicsverse Loki-Sif and the source of tragedy for their relationship for those who like their angst. If he hadn't messed this up, he might have had a chance...with her. But alas.
Notice Loki's guilt and vain hope to be her hero. He was practically glowing.6/19/2011 . Edited 6/20/2011 #21
quote - "Sif, in the movie, develops feelings for Thor in the end. If you read the script you know what I'm talking about. They'll probably explore them in the next movie as a love triangle"
I've read the script and the ending in Asgard in the script and what we see in the actual film are quite a bit different. I'm not sure then how much of what was in the script they decided to change for the final film. I can see how it could be intrepreted in the film itself that Sif may be developing feelings for Thor, but I don't think we can just go off the script - it's too different (and the script is only ever a starting board for the cast and crew to build from). We'll just have to wait and see what they do in sequels regarding Thor/Sif. I hope they DON'T go there, because I like Thor/Jane and find love triangles like that quite annoying. This Amora character sounds more interesting than Sif to be a potential obstacle for Thor/Jane.
Of course, UNTIL we do see the Thor sequel and see what happens in that (or perhaps the Avengers), we can't really say, going off film canon, what the position is with Thor/Sif and Loki/Sif - it's all open to interpretation.6/20/2011 #22
I disagree. It could have been a cut scene. Script still has hints of what's to come or was considered, there weren't Loki/Sif ones written down, while one sided Sif/Thor subtext. Look I DO like Loki/Sif, but in a crack dark ship way I adore to read fanfic about, I don't think it'll be in the movies. Because is one of the most unexplored love triangles (Thor/Sif/Loki ones), it does exist in the comics but is suppressed and very very one sided. Which is a pity since it could have more gravitas than the usual love triangle (Amora/Thor/Sif... Jane's a no contender and hasn't been one realistically for decades there. Most are people trying to separate Sif and Thor). There is a kinda... there in Sons of Asgard (although that's very, very Sif/Thor heavy... and one of the places I found it an engaging read as a pairing), in a read between the lines way.
Jaimie being a fan of the comic made her portrayal very snippy, very tension-dislike loaded against Loki (as contrast with the Warrior Three who don't have her baggage). I think if there is any accidental chemistry is from Loki's side. Which is why I love it and is pretty comics accurate in spirit. Sif's one of the only ones who doesn't let Loki fool her and he displays his jilted precocious crush in a different way. He singles out his hatred for her that is very personal (he was scorned and is scorned in every turn). Unlike Amora or Lorelei, he never tries to bewitch her to love him instead of Thor, but (in Sons of Asgard, for instance) he keeps ranting how much he hates her (which is unlike Amora's hatred/jealousy). She dispenses insults at his back and he seems hurt and wanting to hurt her in a personal way (and he spies her while she bathes lol), including allying himself to Amora to break up the budding Thor/Sif romance. Like I said, one of the most unique things is that he wanted her to suffer heartbreak rather than cast a spell to make her love him.
It struck me when I read it that Loki wanted her to experience the same amount of pain he did. Even if he would never admit it.
This is what makes it so unique and juicy to translate sometimes in movieverse. There are hints Sif prefers Thor. Period. But that's what makes it more challenging to work around (which is why I love Caterina and Isaak from Trinity Blood :3). Loki is a tad nicer from Loki v1 in the comics, but I believe the hair scene happened because of Sif's short temper around him.
I show you those pages because they are Loki/Sif in a tragic way (and you might appreciate them). This is how he blew his chances for good. In the myth, he does recover Sif's hair. So there's a possibility of an affair. In the comics, he tries but it turns black, leading her to hate him forever (or until he became adorably chaotic good child again) and to become a warrior.
And of course, once he grew up more he also found the Enchantress hot as well (everyone does, she is the most beautiful woman in the nine realms and all :P). Pity she's after Thor (although the animated feature "Thor: Tales of Asgard" pairs them up briefly). I pity his poor wife...
Another interesting tidbit you can use for : Amora compared them as being alike in Sons of Asgard series (she was trying to matchmake them? You decide!). Sif was the only woman in the warrior training grounds (until Brunhilde appeared) and Loki's the only man in the magical trainings (which is mostly for women).
Notice there is an alternate storytelling in the miniseries Loki (where Sif's hair suffers when she's older, either way doesn't forgive him) and he's forced to renew it. But I prefer the Sons of Asgard take (since he willingly went to repair the damage after he saw how much it wounded her).6/20/2011 . Edited 6/20/2011 #23
Really interesting posts here so here's my bit.
While I do enjoy Loki/Sif, I see it as more of a one-sided thing from Loki as a few people said earlier. Yeah... I would say more, but it's already been said before.6/26/2011 #24
This is a little gift for the shippers:
Edit: I forgot to clarify, in this storyline Loki wins Odinring and becomes the ruler of Asgard out of one of Odin's many stupid laws (and jerky tests) that who bears the odinring is the king of Asgard. As usual, he goes to nap into Odinsleep after traumatizing Thor by making his mouth vanish for 'defying' him (acting on his defense as rightful ruler of Asgard). The Warriors Three were banished. Balder can't help Thor because he swore to serve Karmilla (who is Loki's ally in this) and Sif attempts to keep her allies alive. Loki decides he'll have Sif as Queen and they almost wed (against Sif's wishes). Obviously this doesn't happen, Loki's exiled and defeated.
I think it's one of the last story arcs Stan Lee wrote (if not the last... I can't remember). He acted like editor in others.7/11/2011 . Edited 7/12/2011 #25
I really find the Loki/Sif fanfictions annoying. No offense.9/23/2011 #26
so do i.9/23/2011 #27
Glad to see I'm not the only one to think so.9/24/2011 #28
I get that not everyone likes Loki/Sif (particularly if you know the comics first), but to me, it's the only viable romance I can see with Loki.
Loki and a human (including Jane and Darcy), would just not work in my opinion. It would firstly be too much of a copy of Thor's story and I just can't see Loki falling for a human at all. I don't see him as the sort of guy to let things like a mere mortal get in the way if his plans and also, I just don't think they could deal/help Loki enough with all his messed up problems and redemption. (NB - I don't think Loki is evil, but he has done some pretty bad things (albeit we can get his reasoning somewhat).
Anyway, so that leaves a non mortal and as the only one we see in the film is Sif (I don't really like OCs, and for me Sigyn is an OC), it pretty much falls to Sif! She has obviously known him a long time and as such will already get him to a certain extent and so will be more capable of helping Loki with all his messed up problems.
Of course, I also love Sif/Loki because they had such awesome and intense chemistry in the film, lots of little interactions and because I can totally see them having the right personalities to suit one another.10/3/2011 #29
The only off putting I've seen in the Loki/Sif fandom is their (mistakenly?) belief that somehow the comics plot with Loki possessing Sif's body when the actors talked about it. Listen: leaving her to suffer and die in an ederly cancer patient to hurt Thor is not 'shippy'. Sif felt violated, physically, mentally and emotionally afterwards. During this arc, Loki had chemistry with Balder (probably because he took advantage of Balder's unrequited, languishing crush on Sif to manipulate him), Doctor Doom and more... men, not Sif. And even want this to happen?
I absolutely adore the movieverse fic, but a soon a fan starts fangirling about that as 'proof' I just back away fast. I'm sure they do it mostly out of misinformation.10/12/2011 #30
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