Game of Thrones Fanfiction Discussion & Challenge
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Rosawyn

We can talk about the pairings we prefer, and the ones we don't like, right? In fact, I think we can say something like, "I hate the very idea of character x paired with character y" without offending someone who absolutely adores that pairing, right? Remember to be polite and respectful and avoid book spoilers. :) It's fine to say, "I like character x paired with character y," but not "I like character x paired with character y as they are in book 3" or whatever.

So...OCs paired with canon characters? Slash (canon or otherwise)? Incest (canon or otherwise)? Who do you like to see with who in stories? Do you like to write certain pairings, but maybe read others?

For myself, I never expected to ever like slash of any kind. (I honestly was a bit homophobic to be perfectly honest, even though I had a good RL friend who was gay--it's sort of the way I was raised, and it was a bit hard to get over.) But JK Rowling's revelation that Dumbledore was gay and in love with Grindelwald (that's not even a spoiler for the HP books, it's just something JK said in an interview) led me to consider the couple; I've always been a huge stickler for canon over anything else, and Albus/Gellert sort of became canon with that. I read a few Albus/Gellert fics, some of which were actually extremely well-written, and they won me over. Now I ship some slash pairings that aren't even canon (because, let's face it, most aren't). And while watching GoT, my slashing goggles must have been on pretty tight, because I was immediately seeing some slashyness between Jon and Sam (canon characters accusing Jon of being "in love" with Sam probably had something to do with my slashing goggles switching on--that's not to say I actually think Jon is in love with Sam, but it could make for an interesting fanfic, imo). I have to say I was honestly surprised and disappointed to find that it seems no one at all writes or even draws or vids this pairing. It's not that slash doesn't exist for GoT, but it seems to all be Jon/Rob (which is fine, if you're into incest, but I can't really stress strongly enough how much I am NOT) or Jon/Rob/Theon (which still includes the incest I'm really not fond of). Hey, if anyone can point me in the direction of any good Rob/Theon or Joh/Sam fics (doesn't have to be slash; I love these guys as "just friends" too), I would be very grateful. :)

For all of that, I still don't actually write slash (except for one rather sad example of femslash I wrote for a challenge in the Harry Potter fandom), though I'm sure a lot of my NOT slash stuff can be and often is read that way. I've also never written an actual sex scene for any pairing in any fandom. I've read a lot of them (too many, most likely), but I guess it's a sort of mental block or something when it comes to the idea of actually writing one. It's not like I wouldn't know what I was talking about; I am married and have two kids, so it's not exactly a mystery to me (at least not the het side of things). lol Guess it's just not something I feel comfortable writing. Maybe one day.

I personally dislike the idea of OCs at all and especially if they're paired with canon characters. I have been told that they aren't always "Marry Sues," but coming from fandoms with far more fanfiction such as Harry Potter and Supernatural, I've always tended to just ignore any and all stories with any mention of an OC as a sort of easy filter when deciding which stories are at all worth my time reading. I've been wondering a lot lately, though, if I'm going to have to reconsider that "filter" when dealing with GoT fiction, as there really is so very little of it, and I'm itching for something, anything to read for this fandom at this point. If some of you like to read or even write OCs in GoT, now would be a great time to try to convince me of their worth. :D lol

Anyway, that's my extremely long ramble. Please jump in to the discussion.

11/3/2011 #1
Shahzadi
Lovely ramble, that. xD I don't mind OCs. As a matter of fact, I love them and their stories, but a lot of the girl OCs I've read in this category so far are utter Sues. It takes a really strong writer with perceptive characterization to pull an OC off, esp in a story that clearly lacks want of them. (GoT is chock full of canon characters to make stories out of.) I have always disliked slash and don't read it. I generally don't read incest, unless it is canon and well done. I think incest in itself is something that involves a great deal of wrong, of which the characters are in knowledge of but pursue anyway. The only incestuous pairing that I have found romantic and viable is that of Elizabeth of York and Richard III in The Cousins' War series by Philippa Gregory.
11/7/2011 #2
Rosawyn

The only incestuous pairing that I have found romantic and viable is that of Elizabeth of York and Richard III in The Cousins' War series by Philippa Gregory.

I'm guessing based on the title "The Cousins' War," that it's a story about first cousins? For me anyway, there is a difference, a definite distinction between cousins and "other" incest (siblings, parent/child, etc). It's actually legal in many countries including my own for first cousins to marry; it's not common and certainly not generally socially acceptable, but it's not illegal. So yeah, for me, I can see enjoying a story about cousins in love, depending on how it was written and all that. I'm pretty sure I've read a couple of "cousincest" stories in the Harry Potter fandom that I didn't entirely hate. Cersei/Lancel still icks me out, though, probably mostly due to the age difference (for the longest time, I thought he was he nephew), and also due to the fact that neither of the is in any way a likeable character.

GoT is chock full of canon characters to make stories out of.

I totally agree! This show has no lack of canon characters. lol

11/7/2011 #3
now.unknown

Jumping in on the discussion... Hmm... Admittedly much newer to fan fiction than a lot of the people on this site. First started this account to start a fic on the show, Nikita, which I subsequently abandoned and deleted, after running out of muse for the story (and the show).

I revived the account after seeing the first season of Game of Thrones. Robb's coming-of-age and getting thrust into being King in the North made me adore the character and a dratted spoiler in the IMDB forums inevitably brought me to this fandom.

I was honestly searching for a good romance fic with Robb on it. Inevitably, since I'm not really into slash, a romance with Robb would most likely be with an OC, because let's face it... what GoT canon character could we actually pair Robb Stark with? There have been fics with Robb/Dany and Jon/Dany I think, but it's hard for me to imagine Dany with anyone other than Drogo (LOVE that pairing by the way, and there are some AU stories here on that pairing that I totally love).

Anyway, yeah, eventually started a fic pairing Robb with an OC. I was already on the fourth chapter of the fic when I browsed Beta Reader profiles and discovered what a Mary Sue was. (Told you I'm a newbie...) Messaged the Beta Reader with a rather alarmed message, "Is my character a Mary Sue??!" I actually even took an online test to see if the OC was a Mary Sue (is that pathetic?) and came up with it saying it was an "Almost Sue" (which was right next to Not-A-Sue and Anti-Sue). O_o

Still not quite sure what counts as a Mary Sue, so do enlighten me here... I may not be able to change much with the fics I already have, but it would help to know moving forward, especially since I seem to be geared more toward canon/OC pairings. All I know is that the OC shouldn't be perfect and liked by every protagonist, hated by every antagonist (something like that). O_o

At Rosawyn: Married with two kids?! Wow. And I had the impression this fandom was ridden with high schoolers. One reason why I try not to mention age in my fics. In my imagination, I want to be able to keep them as adults in adult situations when writing the fic. I know the characters (especially the ones I like) are much younger in the book (and even in the show), but I figured they don't have to be just as young in my head.

11/7/2011 . Edited 11/8/2011 #4
Shahzadi

Rosawyn: Richard III and Elizabeth of York is an uncle-niece pairing xD Something I definitely find incestous. As for the idea of cousin relationships itself, I do not believe them to be incestous. I am of Pakistani heritage, and in my culture it isn't taboo to marry or have a sexual relationship with your cousin. My own parents are first cousins once removed (though I don't even believe something as abstract as that counts as a cousin relationship -eye roll-) and several members of my extended family are cousins and married to one another. Charles Darwin married his own first cousin, as did the most recent Turkish president. Cousin relationships are prevalent in cultures that abhor incest. I think this should tell us something about whether they are even incestuous or not.

11/8/2011 #5
Shahzadi

thePatient07: I love Robb/OC as well, really because I love Robb XDD .

As for your story, I've actually read it, and I don't think it would be entirely appropriate for me to express my opinion of your character on this forum. Just let me know if you want a review or not, and if that branches into PMs (or if you would prefer a PM instead of a review), I'd be glad to oblige you.

I take Mary Sue litmus tests whenever I make an original character. Sometimes I only do it for the hell of it since I'm confident enough in making OCs, but if I feel that a character hasn't quite hit the development mark, I like to use them. Mary Sue tests can be excessive and impractical; stay aware of that. You probably got Almost Sue because there were broad, empty spaces in your character's development. Generally when I get that option, I haven't yet particularized and developed my character to the point where he or she is a real person.

As for what a Mary Sue is. . . Wikipedia defines it as "a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfillment fantasy for the author or reader." To me, a Mary Sue is a female character (the male cognate is Gary Stu, which I happen to have less experience with) who fulfills every cliche imaginable and by doing so neglects the most important components of a good character in a good story: emotional texture, complexity, desire and lack thereof, realistic quality in past and personality etc. etc. It's a hard topic to explain simply because it involves so many varying factors and components, but that is the general gist of it. (General, but not essential :/ Sorry.)

They can't be flat. Beautiful princess is a Mary Sue. Evil witch is a Mary Sue. They have to be sympathetic, they have to be realistic to life and whatever occurs in it. Heartless thug is a Gary Stu. And so on.

To better understand Mary Sue, I suggest you go browse some fic in the other fandoms you're part of and try to find stories that actively use her. After that, read Sue parodies and try to understand how the two align with each other.

11/8/2011 #6
now.unknown
*gulp* What did I just get myself into? lol. Oh yeah, please do leave a review or send a PM. If it's totally awful, I prefer a PM. Haha... But yeah, do let me know and if you can give any tips on characterization while you're at it, I would really appreciate that.
11/8/2011 #7
Rosawyn

what GoT canon character could we actually pair Robb Stark with?

One of Walder Frey's daughters? :P Ok, so granted at this point in the show we know absolutely nothing about any of Walder Frey's daughters (other than that most of them are apparently quite ugly), so it would be nearly the same thing as writing an OC, but at least the character would *exist* already in canon even if we know pretty much nothing about her. Actually, a story about Robb meeting and finding he doesn't hate the woman he's been forced into an arranged marriage with...and her dealing with her own issues, thinking she's ugly, not believing anyone could actually want her... Ok, so maybe it's not really a story I'd want to write myself, but it wouldn't have to be a bad story.

it's hard for me to imagine Dany with anyone other than Drogo (LOVE that pairing by the way

I love them together too. :)

Still not quite sure what counts as a Mary Sue, so do enlighten me here

I generally find TV Tropes to be quite helpful with this sort of thing: http: / / tvtropes. org/ pmwiki/ pmwiki. php/ Main/ MarySue "the kind of character pretty much everyone could agree to be a Mary Sue. These traits usually reference the character's perceived importance in the story, their physical design and an irrelevantly over-skilled or over-idealized nature. " In my own mind, it seems entirely impossible for an OC to be pared with a canon character and have that paring as central to the story and NOT have that character be a Marry Sue. Obviously, I could be wrong, but since I don't believe I personally am a skilled enough writer to write an OC/canoncharacter paring without that OC being a total Sue, I find it hard to believe anyone could do so. There really is so much to the whole question of what a Mary Sue really is, if they're necessarily always bad, etc, etc, that I'm beginning to think maybe we should have a separate discussion thread just to discuss OCs or something (especially since OCs don't always have to be paired with canon characters - in fact, that's the only time I don't hate them; when they're just there but not romantically involved with canon characters).

At Rosawyn: Married with two kids?! Wow. And I had the impression this fandom was ridden with high schoolers.

Well, it seems to me that most fandoms are populated primarily by the 12-16 age-group, but I would at least hope that most GoT fans skew a bit older, considering the obvious adult content in the source material. That said, regardless of fandom, I tend to try to keep my age to myself; once people discover I'm an adult, I imagine they expect more of me and judge my work at a higher standard. And, well, I guess I'd rather be graded "on the curve" and be thought of as an exceptionally literate 14-year-old than a rather immature 30-year-old. *shame* Yes, I am really that vain. :P lol

11/8/2011 #8
Rosawyn

Richard III and Elizabeth of York is an uncle-niece pairing xD Something Idefinitelyfind incestous.

Ah, I see, yes. Definitely incestuous then.

As for the idea of cousin relationships itself, I do not believe them to be incestous.

And I guess I don't really see them as incestuous either, but more of a "grey area." From the standpoint of genetics and health and such, isolated instances of cousins marrying and producing children shouldn't cause problems, but the way I understand it a pattern of first cousins marrying and then those kids marrying their first cousins can and will lead to all sorts of health issues down the line.

I am of Pakistani heritage, and in my culture it isn't taboo to marry or have a sexual relationship with your cousin.

In Canada, the USA, and the UK it is taboo, though I'm still pretty sure it's legal in all three countries (most def is legal in Canada). As a bit of an illustrating example, I had someone tell me her parents were first cousins, but that this was something one one in the family (least of all her parents) really wanted anyone to know.

first cousins once removed (though I don't even believe something as abstract as that counts as a cousin relationship -eye roll-)

I'm not even sure what the "once removed" part means. I know who my first cousins are (most of them anyway; I have one uncle who has kids he hasn't even met), but I'm pretty lost when it comes to familial relations more distant than that.

So...I don't personally scream "ew gross" at the idea of someone married to or in a sexual relationship with their first cousin, but I certainly would never have considered my own cousins "that way". There are those, however, who react quite strongly to the idea of anyone in a relationship with someone they are even extremely distantly related to; like in LotR, for example, Aragorn and Arwen are apparently something like 26th cousins, and I have seen "EWWWWWWWW!" reactions to that. And of course, there are people who constantly accuse the British royal family of being "inbred" based on facts such as Charles and Diana being something like 21st cousins.

11/8/2011 #9
now.unknown

One of Walder Frey's daughters? :P Ok, so granted at this point in the show we know absolutely nothing about any of Walder Frey's daughters (other than that most of them are apparently quite ugly), so it would be nearly the same thing as writing an OC, but at least the character would *exist* already in canon even if we know pretty much nothing about her. Actually, a story about Robb meeting and finding he doesn't hate the woman he's been forced into an arranged marriage with...and her dealing with her own issues, thinking she's ugly, not believing anyone could actually want her... Ok, so maybe it's not really a story I'd want to write myself, but it wouldn't have to be a bad story.

Honest to goodness - ain't lying - that was the first idea I had for a fic. I think there's one fic here that did that - a Robb Stark/Roslin Frey story. I'm not sure if the author continued though. The reason behind why I didn't go with that story idea would be a spoiler, so mum's the word on that. It's still gonna be a Robb/OC story though. LOL.

Honestly though... would you read that story if it were actually written well?

I generally find TV Tropes to be quite helpful

Thanks for the link. I'll check it out.

I would at least hope that most GoT fans skew a bit older, considering the obvious adult content in the source material. That said, regardless of fandom, I tend to try to keep my age to myself; once people discover I'm an adult, I imagine they expect more of me and judge my work at a higher standard.

LOL. I can totally relate!

11/8/2011 #10
now.unknown

I love Robb/OC as well, really because I love Robb XDD .

Have you found one that you particularly liked and has a believable OC? Do recommend. You can PM it to me. I'd appreciate that. :)

They can't be flat. Beautiful princess is a Mary Sue. Evil witch is a Mary Sue. They have to be sympathetic, they have to be realistic to life and whatever occurs in it. Heartless thug is a Gary Stu. And so on.

So can a canon character be a Mary Sue? Off the top of my head, I can think of the princess in the movie Prince of Persia as kind of like a Mary Sue.

To better understand Mary Sue, I suggest you go browse some fic in the other fandoms you're part of and try to find stories that actively use her. After that, read Sue parodies and try to understand how the two align with each other.

I looked up one of the fics on your favorite stories parodying Mary Sues in Narnia, and well... uhm, ouch? Lol. The dreaded Mary Sue.

Sorry if I'm kind of being pesky. I really do want to learn and improve when it comes to writing fiction (fan fic or otherwise) and feedback - especially constructive criticism - would help. :)

11/8/2011 #11
Rosawyn

Honestly though... would you read that story if it were actually written well?

Yes. Of course, my idea of "written well" might be a bit...picky. I read a lot of bad fanfiction; sometimes it's fun to read truly horrible stuff, but for that particular idea of a story where the main plot centres on Rob/randomFreygirl, it would have to be well written to hold my attention.

So can a canon character be a Mary Sue?

Maybe. TV Tropes calls her a "Cannon Sue" http: / / tvtropes. org/ pmwiki/ pmwiki. php/ Main/ CanonSue River Song from Doctor Who has been accused of being a Canon Sue (and not without basis for this acusation, imo).

I can think of the princess in the movie Prince of Persia as kind of like a Mary Sue.

Honestly, I liked her; I know most people seemed to hate her, but I didn't. Not that being entirely hated by the entire audience is necessary for a character to be a Mary Sue.

I really do want to learn and improve when it comes to writing fiction (fan fic or otherwise) and feedback - especially constructive criticism - would help. :)

This is most likely true of all of us. I should make a thread for that...

11/8/2011 . Edited 11/8/2011 #12
now.unknown

Just checked out the link you gave me. It was very informative though not very definitive when it comes to what exactly constitutes a Mary Sue, so I guess yeah... you would most likely be right in saying that every OC is practically, in one way or another, a Sue. *sighs sadly*

On Prince of Persia's princess, I neither had a particular liking nor any form of dislike toward her. She just seemed to be a Canon Sue considering how perfect she seemed to be.

Saw the new thread and I'll be posting my stories - most likely once completed. I don't want to get discouraged from finishing it after receiving negative reviews... yeah... that and I need to gather up courage and prepare myself to receive flames. LOL.

Thanks a bunch for starting this forum. Hopefully, we get a lot more traffic on here to jumpstart things.

11/8/2011 #13
Rosawyn

Hopefully, we get a lot more traffic on here to jumpstart things.

:) Feel free to invite your friends or put the link in your profile or anything you think might get more people. Personally, I'm just ecstatic that real live people are actually posting in my forum! lol

11/8/2011 #14
Shahzadi

thePatient07: Be as pesky as you want, I would be glad to help you XD Yes, those parody fics /are/ utterly ouch, but they also give you a sense of how deeply and intensely fandom hates Mary Sue. They can't stand it. We can't stand it. And believe me, we draw a lot of satisfaction from those parody fics. Reading those fics is like a comedy marathon. It is just so win. There is nothing better. Once you come to terms with your own Sue problems, you too will enjoy the spoofs and parodies. Every author has written a Sue before when they first start out. You mentioned Narnia on my favorites list. The most famous author in the fandom, TastyAsItGets, has over a thousand reviews on her stories, has won countless internet awards and is the webmistress of a site that selectively fosters good fanfiction. She started out by writing a Mary Sue. Everybody does it. I've done it before. Be ashamed. You have every reason to be ashamed. But don't be doubtful of yourself. That's useless, counterproductive and absolutely not deserved either.

In the meager Robb/OC fics we do have in this section, most of the ones I've read are composed of Sues. But I'm also relatively (read: extremely) new to this fandom, so I've only just gotten started on browsing and absorbing its fanfiction.

Canon Mary Sues do exist. I've read somewhere before that Cosette of Les Miserables is considered by some as being a Sue. As I have never seen the play or read the book, I have no right to judge. Knowing Hugo, I think it is unlikely that he would create a Sue, but every author--even published ones, even classic ones--are suspect to it. I read a historical fiction novel, The Red Queen's Daughter, in which the main character was a Mary Sue. The hero of the epic poem Beowulf is sometimes named as a Gary Stu. As someone who has read and studied Beowulf, I can see why they would think that.

Instead of trying to de-Sueify your character, you may as well focus more thoroughly on making a good OC. This is a concise and well-done article on character development that would be good to check out-- http://narniafanfiction.com/opinionarticles/WhatMakesAGoodOC.shtml It's an article that was written for Narnia fanfiction, but entails of information that applies to all OCs, anywhere. Tell me if it helps or not! :) Take a look at this as well. It's a looong article, so I don't recommend reading it all, but skim through. It involves a test as well, which I recommend skipping because you've probably seen variations of it on other sites. --http://firefox.org/news/articles/651/1/The-Original-Mary-Sue-Litmus-Test/Page1.html I'll try to get a review to you as soon as I can. After that, if you want to talk about anything, we can do so here on the forum or through PMs. Whatever you wish. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. As you've noticed already, I do love to talk ^^

11/9/2011 #15
Shahzadi

Oh, yes, and Prince of Persia...! If you're talking Jake Gyllenhaal, then the girl wasn't a Sue. She was well-developed, even if she was not that unique or memorable of a character. Trust me, I hated her too xD Jake deserved better.

If you've read Twilight, Renesmee from Breaking Dawn is a Sue if ever there existed one. Bella became a Mary Sue upon turning into a vampire. A lot of people liken her to a Sue before even that, and while Bella did have some Sue-ish traits as a human, she absolutely was not a full-out Sue. (This is my personal opinion--there are a lot of Twilight readers and fans, or rather, ex-fans out there who would disagree.) Edward Cullen is popularly believed to be a Gary Stu, but he actually is not. (IMO.) Bella just describes him so incessantly whilst being in utter awe of him that it's difficult to believe anything but.

Also, Harry Potter has a lot of qualities and goes through a lot of action that is reminiscent of a cliched character. But is he a cliched character? Is he a Stu? Absolutely not. So the justification of being a Sue or a Stu genuinely lies in the character's emotional texture, their dynamism (or static quality, if it is convincing enough), their complexity, not the actions and qualities that they bear on the surface. My approach towards characters on being a Sue or a Stu is less conservative than the attitudes of other authors and readers, but I don't think anyone can dispute the versatility of Harry's characterization.

//long rant over

11/9/2011 #16
Rosawyn

Every author has written a Sue before when they first start out.

I did no such thing. :P I've never written an OC in any fanfiction, so unless I was writing some sort of Canon Sue (Willow from Buffy, Hermione from HP, Elizabeth Swan from PotC???), then I can safely say I never in my life wrote a Sue. Unless it was in some of my entirely original fiction (which has never been published anywhere, online or otherwise), but even there I'm doubtful - most of my characters were male.

Oh hey, speaking of Canon Sue/Stu...James freaking Bond. Total Canon Stu if I ever saw one. And I hate his freaking arrogant stupid guts. :P

11/9/2011 #17
Shahzadi

Rosawyn: I was referring primarily to OCs. xD Any of us who have indulged in OC land have indulged in Sues as well.

And I disagree with all of the canon Sues you have mentioned as being Sues, except for the one from Buffy, as I am not acquainted with the subject. Both Elizabeth Swan and Hermione, though seeming to fill the void of cliche character, are layered and realistic enough to surpass Mary Sue status. I respect your opinion, but that is my personal two cents on it :D

11/9/2011 #18
Rosawyn

Any of us who have indulged in OC land have indulged in Sues as well.

Fair enough.

I disagree with all of the canon Sues you have mentioned as being Sues, except for the one from Buffy, as I am not acquainted with the subject. Both Elizabeth Swan and Hermione, though seeming to fill the void of cliche character, are layered and realistic enough to surpass Mary Sue status. I respect your opinion, but that is my personal two cents on it :D

You completely misunderstood my opinion, though. I don't consider any of those characters to be Sues in any sense. They're just the characters I wrote when first getting into fanfiction, so my point wasunless any of them is a Canon Sue, I have never written a Sue. I absolutely love Elizabeth Swan and Hermione and I think they are both brilliantly written.

I guess I've never really had much desire to write my own OC into any fandom. Most of my fanfiction stems from my love for the canon characters, so I just use them. I mean, all the hard work is already done for me - that's one of the perks of fanfiction.

Personally, I'd prefer to write a crossover story simply to pair a character I love from another fandom with a character I love in GoT (ie Jon or Rob) than to actually write an OC. And I don't write crossovers. I don't even read crossovers. But now that I'm thinking about it, hmm... Rob Stark/Jo Harvelle (from Supernatural) might be fun. :P Except for the fact that pretty much the whole story would have to be about her trying to figure out how this new world works and dealing with the loss of things like electricity and cellphones...ugh, forget it.

11/9/2011 . Edited 11/9/2011 #19
Shahzadi
Don't watch Supernatural xD But it could work. Characters adapt fast in worlds completely unlike their own if the human emotions are the same. Of course, you will have to make it realistic and not have them become /accustomed/ to anything, even the slightest of differences, but if you maintain an emotional focus, that will tend to bring out the better in your story than the insignificant details.
11/9/2011 #20
Rosawyn

Haha I picked Jo because she was the first character who came to mind when I thought, "What female character from another fandom I like could be a good match for Robb Stark?" She knows how to fight and is totally badass which would help her survive in a world like Westross even if she is more used to guns than bows and arrows (I'm pretty sure she does know how to use a bow in Supernatural, like, a modern-day hunting bow, but the same basic principles should apply), plus she was never canonically pared with anyone in Supernatural, so she wouldn't have to break up with or cheat on anyone. She is also most definitely good-aligned (like Robb) and her family is very important to her, so her and Robb would have some stuff in common. My guess is that Robb would be impressed with a girl who could take care of herself in a fight and wasn't afraid to speak her mind.

I guess one reason I steer clear of crossovers is that to properly enjoy a crossover, the reader has to be familiar with BOTH fandoms.

So now I'm idly wondering who else could possibly be crossover paired with Robb Stark...

River Tam from Firefly? I dunno; she's totally amazing at fighting with pretty much any sort of weapon regardless of if she's ever even seen it before (or just with her feet and bare hands) and is an off the charts genius, but she's also insane and has the unfortunate ability to feel everything that everyone else around her is feeling whether she wants to or not, plus the fact that even though she's 17 she's entirely dependant on her older brother for pretty much everything and would be entirely lost without him...well, I have a hard time seeing any paring with her being anything but dub-con (and I don't like dub-con much). Plus, I've never written her and I'd be pretty scared to try.

It really doesn't help that most of my fandoms have far more male characters than female characters, and the females that do exist are usually the canon love interests or mothers of the important male characters...

11/10/2011 . Edited 11/10/2011 #21
AnissaB1

Ah, what a lovely thread :)

Pairings...

Personally, I don't mind OC's now. At first, as a reader I skipped any fic involving an OC. I just didn't get why people felt the need to create a new character when they could be just as inventive with the characters already present in the show. But then I read one, then two and admitted that when it was well written, I actually LIKED the add of an OC. But I agree, if she (let's face it, most of the time it's a girl) is just a classic Mary Sue, it won't do. Too boring for me.

I've read quite a few Game of Thrones fics involving an OC and found myself hooked so fast! I have two authors in mind who are doing a great job with it. Now, when it comes to Game of Thrones, I don't know why I can't imagine some characters in a relationship. Somehow, I don't picture Robb, Jon or Jaime in one. Especially the Stark boys (yeah yeah I know Jon's a Snow but still has Stark blood, which makes him a Stark to me :p). I wouldn't even be able to tell you why though. Robb with someone? It wouldn't feel right...Same for Jon. They'd be wayyyyyyyy better single, in my opinion.

Now, what I'm into right now is crossovers. I love the challenge there is when we write a crossover fic. Two different worlds meeting and you gotta make some sense out of it. I'd like to read more Game of Thrones crossover fics such as Smallville, Merlin (maybe..) and well, just anything the writer feels like writing.

4/4/2012 #22
SummertimeSadness1

Interesting discussion here, I love the talk of pairings and Mary-Sues. It's no surprise for me to admit that I have written a Mary-Sue or two but I'm much more careful now about how important it is for a character to have flaws and weaknesses.

7/31/2012 #23
Illaia

Thank heavens someone else is not a big Bond fan... Although I love the idea of guycandy... I happen to like a realistic character -- a guy who's not necessarily one of those underwear model types, who's good at everything. Hence, when I was writing my first novel in a series, the hero is this big guy that's not perfect... and the heroine is just a really stubborn teenager (ok.. that's a stereotype). But I have her developing her character throughout the book...

Anyway... I'm new to this site.. did my first fanfic for GoT... and it's not done yet.. working on Chapter 4 right now :) -- I'm pairing (in a sense) Jon Snow or Benjen Stark with a minor character who's only mentioned in the book (maybe)... and it starts a little before the series does... I kind of liked doing this to introduce the characters in my own way. I'm hoping I did them justice. LOL.

10/2/2012 #24
Tashin

I've less problems with the Cersei/Jaime incest canon couple (did more of an impression when I first read the books, now it's just one of the books things XD) than with some of the awkward ones. I've seen some author have taken to write 'future fics' to get around the problem, but others keep writing about the S1/S2 arc and yet use these pairings:

Sansa/Sandor: gives me the creeps, because she's supposed to 14/15 and he... 30? I'll give she's older than in the books (when she's like 12) and that the actress looks older, but when I see SanSan I get the shivers.

Gendry/Arya: again, she's 11 at most. I'd feel slightly ridiculous in trying to pair her up with anyone at this age....

As for OCs, I'm really wary about them. I haven't opened (and probably never will) any fiction that contains OCs that are completely random new sister/cousin/aunt whatever of established canon families that haven't them anywhere: see the 'Lina Starks', the 'Mary Cassels' and whatnot, for example. Especially since most of the times they need to be there to be paired with Theon and/or Jon Snow. I base on the fact that Theon is a jerk, basically, but he can have his pick of every pheasant girl around, and can be shipped with any random OCs from his homeland, if people really need to do so... why make up a new Stark girl? Because Stark are cool... which lowers my faith on the overall quality of the fic in favour of shameless self insertion.

I also tend to avoid the rebellious teenagers plots when OCs are involved. GoT and the books, if anything good can be said about them, really show you the mindset of the era they are based off. Many OCs fanfiction I've read turn it in the classic teen fantasy, when the protagonist is a rebellious, but in reality modern minded, teen that no one understands. With all the high-school-style love struggle and whatnot. I find it jarring, I'd read other fandoms if I wanted these kind of stories.

And about Mary Sues, IMO, the things to take in consideration for a good start as character are:

- The mindset of the location: in a world like GoT, Arya is the exception, not the norm, and her preferences for sword fighting are seen as a quirk she'll out-grow in time, Brienne, the warrior-chick is seen a freak and laughed at, etc. If I read about a girl of 17 that behaves like Arya I expect people outside the family to not appreciate that, not for everyone to admire her and brush her misbehaving off like nothing. Someone talked about Twilight Bella Swan, and this is what makes me see her as a Sue: for other people she's seldom in the wrong, everyone caters on her even when she just deserves to be slapped.

- The character itself: too perfect either in her good-ness or badass-ness, etc. etc. these things about Sues have been ad nauseam so I won't keep writing. Writing a multilayered character is difficult if starting from scratch.

10/24/2012 #25
Bess Woodville
I hear you, my parents are also cousins and their grandparents too, we are a tight family :)
11/18/2012 #26
David-El

Well now, this is an interesting chat. For those interested, I have read two interesting stories that pair Robb with canon characters: the first one has him in love with Margaery Tyrell, and the other with Myrcella Waters (Baratheon). Both of them were quite good, even with Robb being a side character in the first story. I have also read a few where Robb does marry a Frey (typically Roslin,) and they're all pretty good. Another canon character that he could be paired with is Dacey Mormont, another woman like Brienne and Arya, but so little is known about her that one can almost do anything with her.

On the OC subject, I have to admit that I have several of my own in some of my stories, and other canon characters that we know so little about that they might as well be OC's. So far, only one has been called a Gary Stu, and hopefully I've managed to fix that. So, personally, I don't mind OC's, but I can understand why others do. Speaking of which, Shahzadi, could you double check the website for the essay on good OC's? I tried the one you posted and apparently the entire site is gone.

I used to be against slash due to the way I was raised, but now I find that I prefer it. Oddly though, when it comes to Game of Thrones, the only slash I like is the canon Renly/Loras, or at least, a relationship involving Renly. Incest on the other hand, I almost never read EXCEPT for one pairing that I am convinced is incest: Jon/Dany. The two of them are basically the only people I can ever see them with (not counting Drogo for Dany, that is.)

7/13/2014 #27
Shahzadi

unfortunately narniafanfiction dot com is down i'm sorry to say! here are character resources tho (scroll a bit) thewritingcafe dot tumblr dot com/post/55258391868/writing-references

i wish this fandom would invest more in OCs. minor characters are great too but it'd be awesome to see well-crafted OCs here and there that go hand-in-hand with the magnificent worldbuilding GRRM's given us. david-el, can you link to the robb/margaery fic you read? i like robb/margaery a lot b/c it has potential.

7/17/2014 #28
David-El

Sure thing, it's called His Fire, and the site is: https:// www dot fanfiction dot net/s/ 10154532 /1/His-Fire. It does stick close to canon, but as Renly is about to die, well, that leaves an opening for Robb now, doesn't it?

7/17/2014 #29
Horatio'sWannaBeKid
If I were to write a pairing of Sandor Clegane and an OC, and include Sansa, but not have any SanSan, would a lot of people still read it even though it isn't Sansa and Sandor?
4/22 #30
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